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ESO really needs an optional difficulty slider/veteran mode for solo content, here is my idea
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kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darkenarlol wrote: »ah this type of threads...again
and again it is absolutely same:
- easy content is not fun
- no i don't want to unspec CP and wear lv 1 white gear and do not use food - it is not fun
- make the game a liiiittle bit harder thru whatever mechanics and GIVE ME BONUS LOOT
actually that is the point - begging for moar shinies not for some hypothetical "fun"
because again in case "for fun" difficulty - remove CP don't use food and go naked in a fancy outfit
You didn't read the thread. Just jumped to some preconceived conclusions. Most in this thread that like the idea also said extra rewards were not necessary. Just want a better fight. Giving players a food to lower buffs would not have any affect on how you play the game and would allow others to have more fun. Switching out armor and CP to do a quest just to switch again to run your nightly trial is a major hassle. There is a relatively easy solution. One that players could choose to take advantage of or not.
Sure other things are higher up on the list of priorities but it would be great if this could be put in the game.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.
Thats the exact issue about it. You want to add difficulty slider, thats fine, but you are already aware that noone will use it unless its worthwile. So you want to link it with additional rewards. This way players will use it, even if they shouldnt because their power is to small. Its very likeley that Devs came to the same conclusion and scraped it for that exact reason.
The problem is that nearly noone wants to play something for its difficulty, they all want to play it to gain something from it. Be it an Achievment, Skin, title or whatever. If you would open up all the vet achievments and drops from dungeons to normal tomorrow nearly noone would run them on vet anymore, because they dont care about the challange and dont want to add the extra time needed.
1 -
tet666✭✭✭To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.
Thats the exact issue about it. You want to add difficulty slider, thats fine, but you are already aware that noone will use it unless its worthwile. So you want to link it with additional rewards. This way players will use it, even if they shouldnt because their power is to small. Its very likeley that Devs came to the same conclusion and scraped it for that exact reason.
The problem is that nearly noone wants to play something for its difficulty, they all want to play it to gain something from it. Be it an Achievment, Skin, title or whatever. If you would open up all the vet achievments and drops from dungeons to normal tomorrow nearly noone would run them on vet anymore, because they dont care about the challange and dont want to add the extra time needed.
I personally don't care about about additional rewards and just included it as a small extra for ppl who care (it's an RPG after all). Also ppl just love challenging content these days see the Dark Souls series of games,Code Vein, Nioh and how popular these games are or WoW BFA vs Classic leveling content for MMOs just to name a few examples.
Most of the very popular games nowadays are at least somewhat challenging.Edited by tet666 on June 9, 2020 11:10AM1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally don't care about about additional rewards and just included it as a small extra for ppl who care (it's an RPG after all). Also ppl just love challenging content these days see the Dark Souls series of games, Nioh and how popular they are or WoW BFA vs Classic leveling content for MMOs just to name a few examples
The best example for a small extra are pledges. Its one of the view things in the game that offer various rewards based on difficulty. There you can see nicely what will happen, because every 7.5k dps dd trys to get them done on vet hm because of the better reward. Your slider would have similar issues. If the bonus is to small ppl will not use it, if its meaningful enought alot of ppl will try to use it.
I know that some ppl like challenges, but mostly in single player games. In multiplayer games it often boilds down to "do i get something i can show off". The games you named cant be used as examples. Dark Souls only has one difficulty and is a single player game. Sure its liked for its difficulty, but you cant choose an easier mode. If it had any ppl would use it and less ppl would play it because there is nothing left to brag for. The 2 oW games are seperate games and there is no choice.
Every mmo i ever played that supported had extra rewards for higher difficulties to create a reason to play them. It is unlikely to work without a meaningful reward and i doubt that the game needs more of these seperations.1 -
tet666✭✭✭I personally don't care about about additional rewards and just included it as a small extra for ppl who care (it's an RPG after all). Also ppl just love challenging content these days see the Dark Souls series of games, Nioh and how popular they are or WoW BFA vs Classic leveling content for MMOs just to name a few examples
The best example for a small extra are pledges. Its one of the view things in the game that offer various rewards based on difficulty. There you can see nicely what will happen, because every 7.5k dps dd trys to get them done on vet hm because of the better reward. Your slider would have similar issues. If the bonus is to small ppl will not use it, if its meaningful enought alot of ppl will try to use it.
I know that some ppl like challenges, but mostly in single player games. In multiplayer games it often boilds down to "do i get something i can show off". The games you named cant be used as examples. Dark Souls only has one difficulty and is a single player game. Sure its liked for its difficulty, but you cant choose an easier mode. If it had any ppl would use it and less ppl would play it because there is nothing left to brag for. The 2 oW games are seperate games and there is no choice.
Every mmo i ever played that supported had extra rewards for higher difficulties to create a reason to play them. It is unlikely to work without a meaningful reward and i doubt that the game needs more of these seperations.
I don't agree sorry and Dark Souls is not just a Single Player game. Again i don't really care about the extra rewards personally but i don't have a problem with it either way there is nothing wrong with risk vs reward. I guess by your logic they should just remove the better loot from veteran endgame content as well?Edited by tet666 on June 9, 2020 11:30AM0 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess by your logic they should just remove the better loot from veteran endgame content as well?
No, im just pointing out that it is questionable to duplicate this into other parts of the game as ist would have no additional value for the game itself. Doing it without rewards would likely lead to less usage which makes it pointless to spend the dev time on it.1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.
Thats the exact issue about it. You want to add difficulty slider, thats fine, but you are already aware that noone will use it unless its worthwile. So you want to link it with additional rewards. This way players will use it, even if they shouldnt because their power is to small. Its very likeley that Devs came to the same conclusion and scraped it for that exact reason.
The problem is that nearly noone wants to play something for its difficulty, they all want to play it to gain something from it. Be it an Achievment, Skin, title or whatever. If you would open up all the vet achievments and drops from dungeons to normal tomorrow nearly noone would run them on vet anymore, because they dont care about the challange and dont want to add the extra time needed.
The 2nd paragraph is absolutely not true. If you ever catch me in a normal for any reason, leads, skill points, quests, etc it was entirely by accident. The content is so easy for me that the rewards become irrelevant. I respect that other people are lower CP and less experienced and may still find a challenge there, but its absolutely boring to me and wouldn't run them if the rewards were the same, and in many cases they are.
The difference between the vMA weapons and nMA weapons are minuscule at best, yet there's still a leader board and it's still competitive for certain classes. There's little reason to run vMA now, yet people do. Whether or not there are enough people that enjoy the enjoy challenging parts of the game to make it worthwhile could be debated, but there absolutely are people that do.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?
It's really not hard to implement. Copypaste Battle Spirit, change the name and give it a new ID, change the application rules so it only applies in overland instances when you're not dueling.
How much time have you spent coding ESO and studying how something like this will affect server performance? It is so easy to say something is not hard to implement from the comfort of our couches. If it was truly this easy and not going to add to the server load I expect Zos would have already done this.
Literally everything is already in the game. They have done more with less. I'm also saying this as someone with over a decade of coding experience, and someone who does graphics programming for a living (very different kind of problem solving, but problem solving nonetheless).
The only way they can screw this up is if they do something incredibly stupid, or, knowing the state of ESO's spaghetti code, if the engine throws a fit and, I don't know, causes players to immediately die when they take even a single point of damage? The suggestion itself is not that hard, hardest part would be exposing the setting to the user, everything else is already in the game in some way.
The simple fact is not everything is in the game. Battle spirit is not a toggle when in a PvP zone and we do not know how much load it would add to the servers adding such a toggle to the game because the server would be forced to check a player's status constantly and do different calculations. On top of that, they would then have to determine if an attack is against an NPC or a player while in a duel. So my comments are very apropos.0 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭
You didn't read the thread. Just jumped to some preconceived conclusions..
The OP had this in his post:To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.
So, the person who you replied to, saw this in the OP's post. You might want to read the OP's post before jumping down his throat, eh?
The OP is *exactly* what the one guy was talking about. "it's too easy. Make it harder. Oh, and give us a buff and loot, too!!"
Yeah, it was in there.
Just because *you* didn't put that in yours doesn't mean it wasn't in the thread. It was there, right at the top.
If you want challenge for the sake of challenge, that's fine, but most requests are like the OP's...
Edited by mavfin on June 9, 2020 5:35PM1 -
tet666✭✭✭Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?
It's really not hard to implement. Copypaste Battle Spirit, change the name and give it a new ID, change the application rules so it only applies in overland instances when you're not dueling.
How much time have you spent coding ESO and studying how something like this will affect server performance? It is so easy to say something is not hard to implement from the comfort of our couches. If it was truly this easy and not going to add to the server load I expect Zos would have already done this.
Literally everything is already in the game. They have done more with less. I'm also saying this as someone with over a decade of coding experience, and someone who does graphics programming for a living (very different kind of problem solving, but problem solving nonetheless).
The only way they can screw this up is if they do something incredibly stupid, or, knowing the state of ESO's spaghetti code, if the engine throws a fit and, I don't know, causes players to immediately die when they take even a single point of damage? The suggestion itself is not that hard, hardest part would be exposing the setting to the user, everything else is already in the game in some way.
The simple fact is not everything is in the game. Battle spirit is not a toggle when in a PvP zone and we do not know how much load it would add to the servers adding such a toggle to the game because the server would be forced to check a player's status constantly and do different calculations. On top of that, they would then have to determine if an attack is against an NPC or a player while in a duel. So my comments are very apropos.
The game allrdy does this all of this scaling for every player pre 160 cp and this is really simple stuff it doesn't matter.0 -
tet666✭✭✭
You didn't read the thread. Just jumped to some preconceived conclusions..
The OP had this in his post:To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.
So, the person who you replied to, saw this in the OP's post. You might want to read the OP's post before jumping down his throat, eh?
The OP is *exactly* what the one guy was talking about. "it's too easy. Make it harder. Oh, and give us a buff and loot, too!!"
Yeah, it was in there.
Just because *you* didn't put that in yours doesn't mean it wasn't in the thread. It was there, right at the top.
If you want challenge for the sake of challenge, that's fine, but most requests are like the OP's...
It was just a proposal and i don't care about rewards at all as i allrdy said numerous times here, seriously we had this discussion a few times in this thread alrdy pls read back instead of repeating this nonsense1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?
It's really not hard to implement. Copypaste Battle Spirit, change the name and give it a new ID, change the application rules so it only applies in overland instances when you're not dueling.
How much time have you spent coding ESO and studying how something like this will affect server performance? It is so easy to say something is not hard to implement from the comfort of our couches. If it was truly this easy and not going to add to the server load I expect Zos would have already done this.
Literally everything is already in the game. They have done more with less. I'm also saying this as someone with over a decade of coding experience, and someone who does graphics programming for a living (very different kind of problem solving, but problem solving nonetheless).
The only way they can screw this up is if they do something incredibly stupid, or, knowing the state of ESO's spaghetti code, if the engine throws a fit and, I don't know, causes players to immediately die when they take even a single point of damage? The suggestion itself is not that hard, hardest part would be exposing the setting to the user, everything else is already in the game in some way.
The simple fact is not everything is in the game. Battle spirit is not a toggle when in a PvP zone and we do not know how much load it would add to the servers adding such a toggle to the game because the server would be forced to check a player's status constantly and do different calculations. On top of that, they would then have to determine if an attack is against an NPC or a player while in a duel. So my comments are very apropos.
The game allrdy does this all of this scaling for every player pre 160 cp and this is really simple stuff it doesn't matter.
I cannot say how that is setup. I would suggest it is an assumption. The reality is, if it was truly as easy as some have suggested then Zso would have done this long ago as it is a no brainer. That is why I suggest it is not all that easy, that it is just easy to say it is easy.0 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭
It was just a proposal and i don't care about rewards at all as i allrdy said numerous times here, seriously we had this discussion a few times in this thread alrdy pls read back instead of repeating this nonsense
If you "don't care about the rewards at all" then why add the line about an XP buff/loot?
Backpedaling furiously now, are you? It's right there in your original post. Make up your mind.
1 -
tet666✭✭✭
It was just a proposal and i don't care about rewards at all as i allrdy said numerous times here, seriously we had this discussion a few times in this thread alrdy pls read back instead of repeating this nonsense
If you "don't care about the rewards at all" then why add the line about an XP buff/loot?
Backpedaling furiously now, are you? It's right there in your original post. Make up your mind.
As i said there is nothing wrong with risk vs reward if you think otherwise we might as well just remove every bit of challenging content from the game and make all the rewards the same because that's exactly what you are advocating for.0 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭
It was just a proposal and i don't care about rewards at all as i allrdy said numerous times here, seriously we had this discussion a few times in this thread alrdy pls read back instead of repeating this nonsense
If you "don't care about the rewards at all" then why add the line about an XP buff/loot?
Backpedaling furiously now, are you? It's right there in your original post. Make up your mind.
As i said there is nothing wrong with risk vs reward if you think otherwise we might as well just remove every bit of challenging content from the game and make all the rewards the same because that's exactly what you are advocating for.
Still backpedaling, eh? You said you wanted more challenge, but you don't care about rewards just a moment ago, but now you bring up risk/reward again.
Whatever, dude. We got your message the first time, despite the backpedaling. Same old, same old.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can anyone list a multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider?
It would create conflicts where Johnny on easy setting got his drops but Sally did it on hard.
How is that fair?
Edited by TequilaFire on June 9, 2020 6:21PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Can anyone list a multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider?
It would create conflicts where Johnny on easy setting got his drops but Sally did it on hard.
How is that fair?
That is the wrong question to ask. The correct question is, Can anyone list a major multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider for open-world questing?
To the previous question, the answer is SWTOR. A couple years ago they introduced the first of two serious of solo instanced storylines. You saw no players, living in a sterile world of sorts. Those quests had three difficulty levels. Anything that was not solo instanced in those two additions did not have a difficulty choice. The rest of the game and additions since are all open world and there is no difficulty slider.
The overall design is clearly a successful business model and while some think the solution is easy, we really have no idea how easy or challenging it is.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I personally don't care about about additional rewards and just included it as a small extra for ppl who care (it's an RPG after all). Also ppl just love challenging content these days see the Dark Souls series of games, Nioh and how popular they are or WoW BFA vs Classic leveling content for MMOs just to name a few examples
The best example for a small extra are pledges. Its one of the view things in the game that offer various rewards based on difficulty. There you can see nicely what will happen, because every 7.5k dps dd trys to get them done on vet hm because of the better reward. Your slider would have similar issues. If the bonus is to small ppl will not use it, if its meaningful enought alot of ppl will try to use it.
I know that some ppl like challenges, but mostly in single player games. In multiplayer games it often boilds down to "do i get something i can show off". The games you named cant be used as examples. Dark Souls only has one difficulty and is a single player game. Sure its liked for its difficulty, but you cant choose an easier mode. If it had any ppl would use it and less ppl would play it because there is nothing left to brag for. The 2 oW games are seperate games and there is no choice.
Every mmo i ever played that supported had extra rewards for higher difficulties to create a reason to play them. It is unlikely to work without a meaningful reward and i doubt that the game needs more of these seperations.
The thing is even you admit some players would take advantage of the more difficult settings even with no rewards. I know I would when I am out doing quests. As it would be opt in why does it matter how many participate? More players would have another reason to keep playing the game and that would be a good thing. If it were difficult to put into the game then maybe not worth the effort and there are things I think should get a higher priority. If it is as simple as adding a food that reduces stats (poisons do that a bit already) then why not? Players that don't want the added difficulty wouldn't have to touch it.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You didn't read the thread. Just jumped to some preconceived conclusions..
The OP had this in his post:To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.
So, the person who you replied to, saw this in the OP's post. You might want to read the OP's post before jumping down his throat, eh?
The OP is *exactly* what the one guy was talking about. "it's too easy. Make it harder. Oh, and give us a buff and loot, too!!"
Yeah, it was in there.
Just because *you* didn't put that in yours doesn't mean it wasn't in the thread. It was there, right at the top.
If you want challenge for the sake of challenge, that's fine, but most requests are like the OP's...
that is why I stated he didn't read the thread and not he didn't read the opening post. The original poster later in the thread stated the rewards were not important to him but he included it for people that feel it is important. Reading the entire thread would have helped add to the conversation.
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭
The thing is even you admit some players would take advantage of the more difficult settings even with no rewards. I know I would when I am out doing quests. As it would be opt in why does it matter how many participate? More players would have another reason to keep playing the game and that would be a good thing. If it were difficult to put into the game then maybe not worth the effort and there are things I think should get a higher priority. If it is as simple as adding a food that reduces stats (poisons do that a bit already) then why not? Players that don't want the added difficulty wouldn't have to touch it.
The answer to that is return on investment; i.e. would enough players opt in w/o extra rewards to be worth paying the setup costs?
I have no idea, but ZOS probably knows what threshold it would take.Edited by mavfin on June 9, 2020 8:17PM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The thing is even you admit some players would take advantage of the more difficult settings even with no rewards. I know I would when I am out doing quests. As it would be opt in why does it matter how many participate? More players would have another reason to keep playing the game and that would be a good thing. If it were difficult to put into the game then maybe not worth the effort and there are things I think should get a higher priority. If it is as simple as adding a food that reduces stats (poisons do that a bit already) then why not? Players that don't want the added difficulty wouldn't have to touch it.
The answer to that is return on investment; i.e. would enough players opt in w/o extra rewards to be worth paying the setup costs?
I have no idea, but ZOS probably knows what threshold it would take.
Yeah, that is always a concern. Same answer I give when people ask for a separate instance for open world PvP. I admit I do not know but I think adding a food or drink that negatively affects stats would be fairly easy to do. Return on investment is a valid argument. Some of the arguments presented fall closer to I wouldn't do it so the game doesn't need it.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am against De-buffs as a solution to make quests & overland more interesting and I explained why in another threadNew players seeing Vets come in and destroy enemies is more like a goal, you want to get as powerful as they are.
Putting a handicap on yourself results in new players being able to destroy things better than Vets which would not make sense as incentive or even a mechanic for a group.
You would be making yourself less useful to a group or to your peers in that instance - doing less damage and taking more damage in comparison to your novice teammates.
That would just suck.
If it was a harder instance where you and a couple friends worked together because the circumstances you all chose were difficult then I think that would be more attractive.
Also considering the harder content ZOS has made I’m sure they could make the mobs more mechanically interesting0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Can anyone list a multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider?
It would create conflicts where Johnny on easy setting got his drops but Sally did it on hard.
How is that fair?
that's why they would have to separate instances1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Can anyone list a multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider?
It would create conflicts where Johnny on easy setting got his drops but Sally did it on hard.
How is that fair?
that's why they would have to separate instances
And why these sliders don't exist in multiplayer online games, the amount of servers in the farm would need to be greatly increased.
You can for individual quests, but it would be very costly to have multiple overland instances.Edited by TequilaFire on June 9, 2020 8:48PM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Can anyone list a multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider?
It would create conflicts where Johnny on easy setting got his drops but Sally did it on hard.
How is that fair?
that's why they would have to separate instances
And why these sliders don't exist in multiplayer online games, the amount of servers in the farm would need to be greatly increased.
You can for individual quests, but it would be very costly to have multiple overland instances.
Like we already have with very populated zones? How many times you found to be in different instance of the same zone with a friend of you? For me it's very very often.
In general it comes to fear of people that with greater difficulty there will be greater reward, and they feel it would be obligatory for them to play in harder difficulty. That's the whole point of this discussion. One side wants more challenge, other side afriads they will be forced to leave their comfort zone. For me just the fact I am able to manage with harder environment is enough of a reward.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Can anyone list a multiplayer online game that has a difficulty slider?
It would create conflicts where Johnny on easy setting got his drops but Sally did it on hard.
How is that fair?
that's why they would have to separate instances
And why these sliders don't exist in multiplayer online games, the amount of servers in the farm would need to be greatly increased.
You can for individual quests, but it would be very costly to have multiple overland instances.
Like we already have with very populated zones? How many times you found to be in different instance of the same zone with a friend of you? For me it's very very often.
In general it comes to fear of people that with greater difficulty there will be greater reward, and they feel it would be obligatory for them to play in harder difficulty. That's the whole point of this discussion. One side wants more challenge, other side afriads they will be forced to leave their comfort zone. For me just the fact I am able to manage with harder environment is enough of a reward.
I am all for some increased difficulty, but a personal individual difficulty slider in an online game is not feasible.
You would have to do it like Overland 1 is normal and Overland 2 is hard and many players choose one or the other so they can play together with the same difficulty. Remember this is about overland mostly.0 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭The forums really need to take all these threads and put them in one thread, Cx....
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »The forums really need to take all these threads and put them in one thread, Cx....
I used to consolidate threads on my GTAV forums, but that takes some time and TLC.0
