ESO really needs an optional difficulty slider/veteran mode for solo content, here is my idea

tet666 · June 2020

I posted this a while ago on reddit and taught i might as well share it here since i just got my forum invitation back, maybe there is a chance someone working on the game sees it.

I really love questing in this game but overland content is extremely easy, to the point quests sometimes aren't enjoyable to me because nothing is even remotely challenging. It's a common complaint about the game since One Tamriel and we have threads about it on reddit and on the official forums at least once a week. It's also a big issue especially for some new players and some just outright drop the game shortly after starting it because there is no point in playing the game like this for them (and let's face it they actually need to play a long time before seeing any even remotely challenging content)

I know there is a lot of difficult content at endgame but most of it apart from the arenas is group content and i'm not always in the mood for that or the arena. PVE questing should be challenging as well if i want it to be and something like a difficulty slider or a veteran mode would be the perfect solution to that since everyone could just play the way he wants to.

Devs have talked about it before as far as i know they wanted something like that for One Tamriel but it didn't make the cut. I personally fail to see why it should be so hard to implement a system like that, they allrdy have a system in place to scale player stats, damage output and income while leveling so why not just use it here as well?

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.

So what do you guys think and would you use a system like that for questing?

Batgirl · June 2020

I agree with you about questing and overland being Way too easy and unfun for players seeking a bit more challenge.

However, tbh I dont see how could increasing the difficulty be implemented - even if i decreased my stats, with eso being an mmo there would usually be other non - scaled down players around, jumping in the middle of boss/delve/mob fight and tearing everything down in seconds, like we do it now.

tet666 · June 2020

Batgirl wrote: »

I agree with you about questing and overland being Way too easy and unfun for players seeking a bit more challenge.

However, tbh I dont see how could increasing the difficulty be implemented - even if i decreased my stats, with eso being an mmo there would usually be other non - scaled down players around, jumping in the middle of boss/delve/mob fight and tearing everything down in seconds, like we do it now.

That's pretty easy to solve with ESO's sharding system just put everyone in veteran mode in the same instance. or something like that.

Dusk_Coven · June 2020

A first step could be to make all delves and public dungeons instanced like in Craglorn. After that, they can implement a simple difficulty slider.

Overland is trickier because the number of people that can show up makes it moot. People who ask for overland to be harder are basically waiting to exploit it by getting more people at grind spots to get the better loot or xp or whatever rewards they invariably ask for.

The prerequisite for any difficulty increase in overland is to control the maximum number of people -- max one full raid for an entire instance. This would be similar to what Secret World Legends did. They have tough bosses on the map and specific zones which are even harder. And because of the sharp population limit you can't just bring lots of people to bulldoze them.

idk · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.

First off, this is one of the issues. People say they want more of a challenge yet it comes down to they really want a greater reward.

Since most questing is open-world we are not in our own instance. There is very little that is truly solo. All Zos can really do is offer a means to make one's character weaker.

The other issue is questing is about the quest, not the challenge of trash mobs and such. Heck, I cannot recall the last time I played an MMORPG where any fight in a quest was a challenge. MMORPG quests are all pretty easy which is probably but design for revenue sake while they offer other content for those interested in a challenge.

Ladislao · June 2020

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

idk · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

Batgirl wrote: »

I agree with you about questing and overland being Way too easy and unfun for players seeking a bit more challenge.

However, tbh I dont see how could increasing the difficulty be implemented - even if i decreased my stats, with eso being an mmo there would usually be other non - scaled down players around, jumping in the middle of boss/delve/mob fight and tearing everything down in seconds, like we do it now.

That's pretty easy to solve with ESO's sharding system just put everyone in veteran mode in the same instance. or something like that.

Not really. Zos already attempted to create a flagging system to attract the lucrative RP segment of the MMORPG market. They touted that players interested in RP could flag themselves and the game would attempt to put them in the same instance as likeminded players. ESO had a lot of interest from the RP community but when Zos reneged on their plans because it was to challenging they lost out on that profitable segment.

It likely came down to server load but the may have had other challenges as well. Point is, many things sound easy but in practice, they are not.

tet666 · June 2020

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

Even without armour and weapons overland quests are too easy later on. Or so I found while doing so one day.

I guess one could go around naked, fist fighting with no skills or cp but. I'd certainly prefer the option to change between vet / norm for overland.

There is no point in self imposed challenges like that in my opinion and there is no risk vs reward incentive to do so but i would definitely use it without any rewards as well personally. It's just stupid and i could just play with one hand only or a flight stick instead but that's beside the point and this argument could be made about difficulty options in games in general.

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Everstorm · June 2020

There are no easy solutions for this. A self-nerf is pointless when Johny Spankem comes bargaining in and kills everything in two seconds and seperate instances will divide the community which is also not healthy for the game.
I was however extremely disappointed in the end "fight" for Greymoor. Apparantly I killed him too fast and he hang in the air at 0% health for a couple of minutes before resetting. After I killed him I actually assumed the story wasn't done yet because it hardly felt special.

idk · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Find a good raid group and run the newer vet HM trials. That is where the challenge intended.

Dusk_Coven · June 2020

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

Whenever "harder overland" pleas come up, it's invariably the same.
What they are asking for is NOT more challenge. They just want the difficulty increased -- BUT not so much that there is RISK of failure. They just want it increased enough to justify more rewards.
So they put on the blinders to any other harder content in the game, especially where they might actually fail.
Even in overland there is hard content. Northern Elsweyr dragons where there are typically fewer people. You see players dying all the time there.
Some bosses or multi-boss world bosses in the base zones can be pretty challenging to solo as well (e.g., Bittergreen) and easy to solo undisturbed because everyone is busy farming easy stuff like Alik'r Dolmens -- proof that there is really zero interest in actually harder overland. If there were, all these people asking for harder overland would be challenging themselves there, or Summerset, Vvardenfell, Wrothgar portals, etcetera.

Everstorm · June 2020

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.

First off, this is one of the issues. People say they want more of a challenge yet it comes down to they really want a greater reward.

Maybe I'm the only one but I couldn't give a skeever's arse about the reward. It's just plain stupid that the monsters in the Harrowstorms (or the overland dragons) are way, way harder than their bosses.

kargen27 · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

I posted this a while ago on reddit and taught i might as well share it here since i just got my forum invitation back, maybe there is a chance someone working on the game sees it.

I really love questing in this game but overland content is extremely easy, to the point quests sometimes aren't enjoyable to me because nothing is even remotely challenging. It's a common complaint about the game since One Tamriel and we have threads about it on reddit and on the official forums at least once a week. It's also a big issue especially for some new players and some just outright drop the game shortly after starting it because there is no point in playing the game like this for them (and let's face it they actually need to play a long time before seeing any even remotely challenging content)

I know there is a lot of difficult content at endgame but most of it apart from the arenas is group content and i'm not always in the mood for that or the arena. PVE questing should be challenging as well if i want it to be and something like a difficulty slider or a veteran mode would be the perfect solution to that since everyone could just play the way he wants to.

Devs have talked about it before as far as i know they wanted something like that for One Tamriel but it didn't make the cut. I personally fail to see why it should be so hard to implement a system like that, they allrdy have a system in place to scale player stats, damage output and income while leveling so why not just use it here as well?

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.

So what do you guys think and would you use a system like that for questing?

I disagree with the xp and loot buff. This idea should be about adding more fun to the game. Reading these types of threads over months and months the incentive of a better fight is all most of us want/need.
I suggested foods and potions that would lower stats on characters. Different foods could lower different stats. A slider would work also.

tet666 · June 2020

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Find a good raid group and run the newer vet HM trials. That is where the challenge intended.

That's really not the point here and this is not about endgame group content.

tet666 · June 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

I posted this a while ago on reddit and taught i might as well share it here since i just got my forum invitation back, maybe there is a chance someone working on the game sees it.

I really love questing in this game but overland content is extremely easy, to the point quests sometimes aren't enjoyable to me because nothing is even remotely challenging. It's a common complaint about the game since One Tamriel and we have threads about it on reddit and on the official forums at least once a week. It's also a big issue especially for some new players and some just outright drop the game shortly after starting it because there is no point in playing the game like this for them (and let's face it they actually need to play a long time before seeing any even remotely challenging content)

I know there is a lot of difficult content at endgame but most of it apart from the arenas is group content and i'm not always in the mood for that or the arena. PVE questing should be challenging as well if i want it to be and something like a difficulty slider or a veteran mode would be the perfect solution to that since everyone could just play the way he wants to.

Devs have talked about it before as far as i know they wanted something like that for One Tamriel but it didn't make the cut. I personally fail to see why it should be so hard to implement a system like that, they allrdy have a system in place to scale player stats, damage output and income while leveling so why not just use it here as well?

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

To make it worth it there could be a xp/loot buff that goes up on higher difficulty options so there is a risk vs reward incentive for players to use this feature.

So what do you guys think and would you use a system like that for questing?

I disagree with the xp and loot buff. This idea should be about adding more fun to the game. Reading these types of threads over months and months the incentive of a better fight is all most of us want/need.
I suggested foods and potions that would lower stats on characters. Different foods could lower different stats. A slider would work also.

I just suggested it to make it more attractive for some ppl but it doesn't really matter to me personally overcoming a challenge is reward enough.

idk · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Find a good raid group and run the newer vet HM trials. That is where the challenge intended.

That's really not the point here and this is not about endgame group content.

Actually, it is very much the point.

Considering how quickly a character levels up it seems pointless to be concerned about the challenge for those few hours of gameplay. That pretty much leaves end game of one fashion or another.

As I already pointed out, pretty much every MMORPG questing is pretty easy and that seems to be a very successful business model. There is clearly something going on that works extremely well with the tiered difficulty model or else we would not find it adopted by pretty much every major MMORPG, or at least most of them. They leave questing to the storyline and that is the focus and offer other content for those interested in a challenge.

Also, as I also pointed out, the idea of using instances is not as easy as suggested earlier. Zos already tried to implement that idea when they were attempting to court the lucrative RP segment of this market. If it was that easy Zos would have already done it.

tet666 · June 2020

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Find a good raid group and run the newer vet HM trials. That is where the challenge intended.

That's really not the point here and this is not about endgame group content.

Actually, it is very much the point.

Considering how quickly a character levels up it seems pointless to be concerned about the challenge for those few hours of gameplay. That pretty much leaves end game of one fashion or another.

As I already pointed out, pretty much every MMORPG questing is pretty easy and that seems to be a very successful business model. There is clearly something going on that works extremely well with the tiered difficulty model or else we would not find it adopted by pretty much every major MMORPG, or at least most of them. They leave questing to the storyline and that is the focus and offer other content for those interested in a challenge.

Also, as I also pointed out, the idea of using instances is not as easy as suggested earlier. Zos already tried to implement that idea when they were attempting to court the lucrative RP segment of this market. If it was that easy Zos would have already done it.

The game has hundreds of hours of questing and over world content it's by far the biggest amount of content in the game and with the cp systems it stays relevant for a very long time.

Endgame content is really not what the majority of players does most of the time no matter what you might think so it's actually pretty important to make it as enjoyable as possible for everyone and judging by the huge amount of threads about this there is a big interest in an optional difficulty mode for questing from the playerbase.
I mean i get it some ppl are just interested in challenging endgame content but that's really not the issue here just ignore this thread

eKsDee · June 2020

1. Overland content dwarfs all other content both in terms of how much of the game is centered around said content, and how much developer attention is allocated to said content. You can easily hit 50 and start doing group content well before you even finish your alliance's quest line and get sent to Coldharbour to continue the main quest line, so, no, it's not just a few hours of gameplay. On my PvE main, I'm barely even half way through Cadwell's Silver, and I just can't go any further because questing is extremely boring and unengaging, to the point where I'm put to sleep. Let alone DLC content.

2. Loot is not the main focus, loot is just one aspect ideally of a complete difficulty overhaul, to incentivise players to get out of their comfort zone and try out harder content, by dangling an even larger carrot in front of their faces, whether it be extra XP, gold, or actual loot. I personally could take it or leave it, since the lack of engaging gameplay is my main problem, but I see the point of it in a complete overhaul, and if a complete overhaul is to be done, loot should be looked at.

3. Other players on a lower difficulty coming through and nuking your mobs already happens. If this is seriously your main point against an optional difficulty setting, then we might as well make it so that just looking at mobs instantly kills them, because this already happens. Not to mention, let me stress, an optional difficulty setting, so this isn't your problem, it's my problem, as well as whoever else wants an optional difficulty increase, so who cares? At least I have the option there to actually be able to enjoy myself in overland, unlike now.

Everstorm · June 2020

Considering how quickly a character levels up it seems pointless to be concerned about the challenge for those few hours of gameplay.

But that is exactly the problem. It's wasteful to have so much content aimed at lower lvl characters when getting to 50/160 takes such a short time. Especially with the sheer amount of exp scrolls they are throwing at us.

idk · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Find a good raid group and run the newer vet HM trials. That is where the challenge intended.

That's really not the point here and this is not about endgame group content.

Actually, it is very much the point.

Considering how quickly a character levels up it seems pointless to be concerned about the challenge for those few hours of gameplay. That pretty much leaves end game of one fashion or another.

As I already pointed out, pretty much every MMORPG questing is pretty easy and that seems to be a very successful business model. There is clearly something going on that works extremely well with the tiered difficulty model or else we would not find it adopted by pretty much every major MMORPG, or at least most of them. They leave questing to the storyline and that is the focus and offer other content for those interested in a challenge.

Also, as I also pointed out, the idea of using instances is not as easy as suggested earlier. Zos already tried to implement that idea when they were attempting to court the lucrative RP segment of this market. If it was that easy Zos would have already done it.

The game has hundreds of hours of questing and over world content it's by far the biggest amount of content in the game and with the cp systems it stays relevant for a very long time.

Endgame content is really not what the majority of players does most of the time no matter what you might think so it's actually pretty important to make it as enjoyable as possible for everyone and judging by the huge amount of threads about this there is a big interest in an optional difficulty mode for questing.
I mean i get it some ppl are just interested in challenging endgame content but that's really not the issue here just ignore this thread

First of all I want to make sure that it is clear I feel you, and everyone else is entitled to their opinions. All I have said is there seems to be a business case for every day questing to be fairly easy and offer tiered difficulty with content in-game as it is the same business model shared by the top MMORPGs. Also, the solution is not as easy as you suggested. I am not arguing with you about wanting more difficulty or not, just presenting the reality of the situation.

However, with this last reply, I will point out that amongst the top players that I have run with over the years I have never heard a single one comment that overland is far too easy. So suggesting that end game content is not what we spend the majority of our time doing is not all that relevant.

Anyhow. good luck with your effort and have a grand day.

Larcomar · June 2020

Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?

tet666 · June 2020

idk wrote: »

However, with this last reply, I will point out that amongst the top players that I have run with over the years I have never heard a single one comment that overland is far too easy. So suggesting that end game content is not what we spend the majority of our time doing is not all that relevant.

Anyhow. good luck with your effort and have a grand day.

The top players are hardcore players like you probably which are only interested in endgame pve/pvp they are very prevalent in forums /reddit and very vocal but they are actually pretty much always just a tiny minority in games.

kargen27 · June 2020

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

tet666 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

First of all, you have a factual error in the title. Not ESO needs a difficulty slider but you need. The game has been around for six years, and it feels fine without it.

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy. They don't really need to touch mobs at all everything would be personal just as it is now for leveling pre cp 160.

You can start with removing your CPs and making level one white gear. It will not greatly change your playstyle but will make the game way more difficult and challenging, just as you wish.
Of course, it will not increase your gold/stuff rewards as it should be. After all, the best reward is pleasure, isn't it?

I don't want to have to play sub-optimal for a game to be challenging. I want a way to be able to play optimally and to have to use the tools at hand (gear,skills) and still be challenged.

Find a good raid group and run the newer vet HM trials. That is where the challenge intended.

That's really not the point here and this is not about endgame group content.

Actually, it is very much the point.

Considering how quickly a character levels up it seems pointless to be concerned about the challenge for those few hours of gameplay. That pretty much leaves end game of one fashion or another.

As I already pointed out, pretty much every MMORPG questing is pretty easy and that seems to be a very successful business model. There is clearly something going on that works extremely well with the tiered difficulty model or else we would not find it adopted by pretty much every major MMORPG, or at least most of them. They leave questing to the storyline and that is the focus and offer other content for those interested in a challenge.

Also, as I also pointed out, the idea of using instances is not as easy as suggested earlier. Zos already tried to implement that idea when they were attempting to court the lucrative RP segment of this market. If it was that easy Zos would have already done it.

You are looking at the game from a grinding and end content point of view. No way you are doing all the story lines and side quests in a few hours. A slider or some other option to make the battles along the way more compelling would be a nice addition to the game and would have zero affect on players that didn't want to go that route.
Instances were not mentioned on the OP. I agree instances would not work. A debuff on the character would though. We have foods and potions that buff a character. It shouldn't be to difficult to provide food that takes us the other way.

idk · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

However, with this last reply, I will point out that amongst the top players that I have run with over the years I have never heard a single one comment that overland is far too easy. So suggesting that end game content is not what we spend the majority of our time doing is not all that relevant.

Anyhow. good luck with your effort and have a grand day.

The top players are hardcore players like you probably which are only interested in endgame pve/pvp they are very prevalent in forums /reddit and very vocal but they are actually pretty much always just a tiny minority in games.

On this point, you are very wrong. Top players, top raiders really enjoy the storylines and do all the quests and work to get many of the achievements. They look forward to the storylines in the new update and we talk about our experiences.

Further, I have run with a social guild of very casual players and they enjoy raiding as well. They just prefer the normal difficulty level of raids. All of those groups enjoy doing vet dungeons which is also part of end game.

So a great many at all skill levels and playstyles enjoy end game content of dungeons and trials and also enjoy the story line quests in pretty much the same manner. Part of the tiered difficulty design to offer something for every skill level.

TheShadowScout · June 2020

tet666 wrote: »

There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do and the player stats...

Yeah, the only way we could have this in some way is a "handicap slider" that simply makes your character fight at a percentage of their full power (Damage/healing output & armor at the very least...) - possibly balanced by getting a higher chance at good drops from enemies?

Another way of course would just be people not building super-effective "burn down everything in mere seconds" characters (we know that putting evrything into your offensive stat is the current META, but... its not really all that enjoyable in many cases), but... well, as long as it IS super-effective, and has no drawback, people will do it, then complain that overland is "too easy", yes?

I personally wish we could get attribute softcaps back, so that puting more and more in your damage stat just gives you diminishing results until it just isn't worth it... and possibly also some incentive to put at least a third of your attribute points into health (like... penalties for low health? Increased damage from bleeding, poison and disease when you have a "low constirtution"? Longer elemental effect durations and increased stamina cost to break CC? Something like that...)

Batgirl wrote: »

However, tbh I dont see how could increasing the difficulty be implemented - even if i decreased my stats, with eso being an mmo there would usually be other non - scaled down players around, jumping in the middle of boss/delve/mob fight and tearing everything down in seconds, like we do it now.

That would be unavoidable for any "voluntary" handicap, and rebalancing everything might be asking a bit too much... but who knows, they might in due time find some way to improve the matter...

idk wrote: »

All Zos can really do is offer a means to make one's character weaker.

Yeah, large scale system redesigns that seem unlikely, that is the best we can hope for.

Heck, maybe we can even get some more "Pay to loose" items like the bucket helmet and broom we had a while back... I could see that happening, dual-wielding feather dusters, or taking with a rolling pin and pot lid... shooting foes with a ruibberband slingshot or a "fairy wand" staff that puts out soothing rainbows rather then fireballs... could be fun for nest aprils fools day?

eKsDee · June 2020

Larcomar wrote: »

Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?

It's really not hard to implement. Copypaste Battle Spirit, change the name and give it a new ID, change the application rules so it only applies in overland instances when you're not dueling.

Keep the damage received modifier, remove the shield size modifier and max health bonus, maybe keep the healing received modifier if you want to scale healing. Add a damage done modifier.

Add a new data entry on player characters that represents the difficulty, and expose this entry to the player as a drop down or slider within the character menu, that basically represents the "legend status" or whatever of the player, basically making them more reputable within the world, and so making foes stronger and more aggressive or whatever (RP flavour, ultimately it's just a difficulty setting).

Tie this new data entry to the stat modifiers on this new status effect, such that the higher the chosen difficulty, the more damage the player receives, and the less damage the player deals (maybe also the less healing the player receives).

In this comment, I went over the math and highlighted that the math works both ways.

When the numbers are right, scaling the player's damage done/received literally has the same effect as increasing the mob's health/damage, except everything is completely on the player, and not on the mob.

Damage received can literally be treated the exact same way (+50% mob damage = +50% player damage received), but the player's damage done needs to be the reciprocal (ie `1.0 / x`) of the mob's % health increase (ie +50% mob health = -33.3% player damage done, since `1.0 / 1.5` is 0.667).

The only problem with something like this could be bugs (which is an issue with Zenimax, not the suggestion) or the fact that two players may have wildly different experiences and could interfere with each other (but, as I said, this already happens, and I personally really don't care about it, as at least I have the option to do something about the difficulty).

Otherwise, this is the cleanest solution to the problem, that doesn't touch the population or instances.

Darkenarlol · June 2020

ah this type of threads...again

and again it is absolutely same:

- easy content is not fun

- no i don't want to unspec CP and wear lv 1 white gear and do not use food - it is not fun

- make the game a liiiittle bit harder thru whatever mechanics and GIVE ME BONUS LOOT

actually that is the point - begging for moar shinies not for some hypothetical "fun"

because again in case "for fun" difficulty - remove CP don't use food and go naked in a fancy outfit

eKsDee · June 2020

Darkenarlol wrote: »

ah this type of threads...again

and again it is absolutely same:

- easy content is not fun

- no i don't want to unspec CP and wear lv 1 white gear and do not use food - it is not fun

- make the game a liiiittle bit harder thru whatever mechanics and GIVE ME BONUS LOOT

actually that is the point - begging for moar shinies not for some hypothetical "fun"

because again in case "for fun" difficulty - remove CP don't use food and go naked in a fancy outfit

See this comment.

Everstorm · June 2020

Darkenarlol wrote: »

ah this type of threads...again

and again it is absolutely same:

- easy content is not fun

- no i don't want to unspec CP and wear lv 1 white gear and do not use food - it is not fun

- make the game a liiiittle bit harder thru whatever mechanics and GIVE ME BONUS LOOT

actually that is the point - begging for moar shinies not for some hypothetical "fun"

because again in case "for fun" difficulty - remove CP don't use food and go naked in a fancy outfit

So, let's remove the veteran trials and dungeons. Get rid of perfected gear, monster helms and skins, after all who needs rewards to have fun, right?! You can just go run the normal versions in white gear and without cp. The whole game fixed!

idk · June 2020

eKsDee wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?

It's really not hard to implement. Copypaste Battle Spirit, change the name and give it a new ID, change the application rules so it only applies in overland instances when you're not dueling.

How much time have you spent coding ESO and studying how something like this will affect server performance? It is so easy to say something is not hard to implement from the comfort of our couches. If it was truly this easy and not going to add to the server load I expect Zos would have already done this.

eKsDee · June 2020

idk wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Pretty much what the Ekds said. There's so much overland content, it's a real shame it's utterly unengaging once you level up. It kind of defeats the point of level scaling. Given zos can apply battle spirit to me in cyrodiil, why couldn't there be a toggle to have a similar debuff overland - say -50% damage, -50% healing but give an xp boost. Doesn't have to be major - say something like 25%. But it might make overland feel rewarding again. I can't think that's too hard to implement?

It's really not hard to implement. Copypaste Battle Spirit, change the name and give it a new ID, change the application rules so it only applies in overland instances when you're not dueling.

How much time have you spent coding ESO and studying how something like this will affect server performance? It is so easy to say something is not hard to implement from the comfort of our couches. If it was truly this easy and not going to add to the server load I expect Zos would have already done this.

Literally everything is already in the game. They have done more with less. I'm also saying this as someone with over a decade of coding experience, and someone who does graphics programming for a living (very different kind of problem solving, but problem solving nonetheless).

The only way they can screw this up is if they do something incredibly stupid, or, knowing the state of ESO's spaghetti code, if the engine throws a fit and, I don't know, causes players to immediately die when they take even a single point of damage? The suggestion itself is not that hard, hardest part would be exposing the setting to the user, everything else is already in the game in some way.