Yeah, agreed, I thought it was a pretty easy grind to get the mythic item I wanted all things considered. About 6h to get to level 7, then about 3-5 World Boss or Dungeon Boss kills on normal difficulty to get the leads. Maybe 2-3h while watching Netflix. Hell, I have a bunch of guild mates who already have 1 of each mythic item within the first week of the chapter launch. All the while, I made a lot of gold leveling Scrying/Excavation, about 300k+ by level 9.

Now, I actually like having something to do while I wait for a 25 minute DPS pledge queue, I think the game should have more options like this frankly, still dissapointed it was the only new mechanic included with a full on chapter when I was hoping for a new weapon/spell crafting, but whatever.. Maybe next year.

I play both pve and pvp, so it doesn't bother me to have to do both sides of the game, but I mean really... if people are complaining about having to do a tiny amount of pvp in IC when 90%+ of the game is pve focussed along with the lead drops, I have no idea what to say to them. Suck it up?

The biggest dissapointment of this chapter was the Perfected Arena Weapons not being upgraded. I don't care that people can get them on normal. I've wanted that for a long time, but trying to get just 1 damn specific weapon from Vet Maelstrom Arena has taken above 20h of my life at this point and I still don't have it when I have 3+ non perfected versions in my bank that I consider reserved for Alts now. Luckily I have 6 restoration staves, but 1 2H axe is simply impossible to find. I've beat my record of about 36 minutes from grinding it so much and it still bothers me. I've chosen to give up until they bring back the double drop event in a couple months. Imagine how annoying re-running this old content is for people who take an hour +. It's just unacceptable from ZOS. The transmute crystals, tempers and gold that may be required to get exactly what you want also adds to how much grind investment this costs the average player, not everyone has the amount of time or patience I have for this crap.

Huge mistake on ZOS's PR department, they will be paying for that big F you to the end game players for years to come.

Souterain wrote: »

What I find more interesting is that apparently you need 5 free inventory slots in order to excavate an antiquity and, obviously completely unrelated, it appears there's a new 'pack rat' non-combat pet about to be released in the crown store that provides 5 more inventory slots.

Now thats a huge stretch mate.. It requires 5 slots as the highest common denominator because you must be able to get up to 5 items when you excavate the higher level leads.

A pack merchant and mount can get you up to 200 slots on a character, a new pet for 5 slots is in no way tied to this as some conspiracy to make you spend more money. If that was the case, they could of easily made inventory management a bigger pain in the butt by forcing leads into your inventory instead of account wide. This goes for changing undaunted keys to an account wide currency too.

While inventory management does suck in some ways, it's mostly because I keep every damn thing I pick up.

Crafting bag on the other hand, thats obviously extremely complex with trash to enforce the idea of purchasing ESO +. It's been that way for years though.

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

So out of 282 leads, having 8 of those leads locked behind PvP is just "too much". LOL!

did you miss the point on purpose or did I explain badly again?

at least one of those leads is part of a desirable item that also required various pve leads. that's what can make it so frustrating - for both sides. cause there you are with an item that's partly complete, but to complete it you are going to have to do something particularly unenjoyable. and haven't you wondered WHY did they hide that lead specificaly... not in Cyrodil. not in battlegrounds. in IC? in case I'm being too subtle - its because people don't like IC so even after being made free for all players, players STILL don't like going there. so there's your motivating factor. a shiny new ring.

they did it to pve only leads as well, spreading them across variety of activities, that tend to be in different lanes for different pve people.

me? I have accepted that there are some leads i'm simply not getting because i'm too old and too tired to be cajoled into spending my game time on activities i do not find fun. but.. i still understand that instead of resignation i'm feeling, other people are feeling frustration.

silvereyes wrote: »

On the other hand, I expect I'll probably pick the Chapter up on sale eventually, so part of me is kind of happy that I'll have a bunch of leads stored up just from normal gameplay that I'm doing anyways.

30 day expiration on leads.

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

So out of 282 leads, having 8 of those leads locked behind PvP is just "too much". LOL!

did you miss the point on purpose or did I explain badly again?

at least one of those leads is part of a desirable item that also required various pve leads. that's what can make it so frustrating - for both sides. cause there you are with an item that's partly complete, but to complete it you are going to have to do something particularly unenjoyable. and haven't you wondered WHY did they hide that lead specificaly... not in Cyrodil. not in battlegrounds. in IC? in case I'm being too subtle - its because people don't like IC so even after being made free for all players, players STILL don't like going there. so there's your motivating factor. a shiny new ring.

they did it to pve only leads as well, spreading them across variety of activities, that tend to be in different lanes for different pve people.

me? I have accepted that there are some leads i'm simply not getting because i'm too old and too tired to be cajoled into spending my game time on activities i do not find fun. but.. i still understand that instead of resignation i'm feeling, other people are feeling frustration.

Okay so a few things here; I won't be 'cajoled' into empathizing with people who don't want to run the content. Do you want to know how many months I had to run vDSA before they added transmutation to get the drop I needed for my 'PvP' build back in the day? Longer than months. Same with vMA. Before transmutation do you want to know how many drops I had to vendor trash that had the wrong trait? Spoiler alert, I was in there for over a year and two months. I finally stopped and waited until they released Clockwork City. So don't give me the whole "the content isn't fun". Running vMA sometimes seven times a day on my days off made Orsinium an abject failure in my eyes. Oh, and let's not forget about the abysmal drop rates of some of the overland gear pieces where you have to spend an arm and a leg at a guild store from some PvEer who doesn't even know why it's expensive and coveted.

So you'll have to forgive me if I'm pressing F on the world's smallest keyboard to those who don't want to run through it to get the shiny.

[snip] Two wrongs don't make a right, we know this, but this is yet again about PVE players being forced into PVP areas they are unprepared for and have no hope in when targeted by PVP players that ZOS insist on bullying them into doing in order to achieve a PVE goal.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

So out of 282 leads, having 8 of those leads locked behind PvP is just "too much". LOL!

did you miss the point on purpose or did I explain badly again?

at least one of those leads is part of a desirable item that also required various pve leads. that's what can make it so frustrating - for both sides. cause there you are with an item that's partly complete, but to complete it you are going to have to do something particularly unenjoyable. and haven't you wondered WHY did they hide that lead specificaly... not in Cyrodil. not in battlegrounds. in IC? in case I'm being too subtle - its because people don't like IC so even after being made free for all players, players STILL don't like going there. so there's your motivating factor. a shiny new ring.

they did it to pve only leads as well, spreading them across variety of activities, that tend to be in different lanes for different pve people.

me? I have accepted that there are some leads i'm simply not getting because i'm too old and too tired to be cajoled into spending my game time on activities i do not find fun. but.. i still understand that instead of resignation i'm feeling, other people are feeling frustration.

Okay so a few things here; I won't be 'cajoled' into empathizing with people who don't want to run the content. Do you want to know how many months I had to run vDSA before they added transmutation to get the drop I needed for my 'PvP' build back in the day? Longer than months. Same with vMA. Before transmutation do you want to know how many drops I had to vendor trash that had the wrong trait? Spoiler alert, I was in there for over a year and two months. I finally stopped and waited until they released Clockwork City. So don't give me the whole "the content isn't fun". Running vMA sometimes seven times a day on my days off made Orsinium an abject failure in my eyes. Oh, and let's not forget about the abysmal drop rates of some of the overland gear pieces where you have to spend an arm and a leg at a guild store from some PvEer who doesn't even know why it's expensive and coveted.

So you'll have to forgive me if I'm pressing F on the world's smallest keyboard to those who don't want to run through it to get the shiny.

[snip] Two wrongs don't make a right, we know this, but this is yet again about PVE players being forced into PVP areas they are unprepared for and have no hope in when targeted by PVP players that ZOS insist on bullying them into doping in order to achieve a PVE goal.

Because actually attacking someone in a PvP zone is "bullying".

karekiz wrote: »

Its also to sell all content too.

Need that piece from Summerset? Ohh don't own summerset. Better buy summerset!

Its actually super genius to require old DLC locked content for your new tradeskill system in the new content.

of course it is! it is no accident that the every single mythic item includes at least one lead location that is not part of the base game and therefore requires either ESO plus, or purchase of the DLC. and it seems I was wrong about imperial city. not one but two mythic items require going there, one topside, and one sewers.

edited to add. sometimes I casually play this cute "free" mobile game. free is in quotes because they do everything in their power to convince you to spend money. slow you down in every way possible, etc. you know. mobile game stuff. so it has become a challenge for me to see just how far I can get in that game without spending any money on it. i'm starting to feel very similarly about ESO lately. well... with a minor difference. i'm willing to buy chapters and i'm willing to subscribe. but nothing else. and isn't it kinda sad that ESO is starting to feel so similar to the mobile gatcha game in its implementation? /ponder

Antiquities being a literal database entry into the RNG loot pool of existing activities that have no cohesion with archeology is definitely going to create tension with players that don't engage in or enjoy those existing activities. Racing up and down fisherman's lane in Artaeum to acquire an RNG based lead drop demonstrates, unfortunately, the lack of creativity and passion that went into this feature.

IMO when any side of the player camps start telling the other side to "own up", you're only going to make a bad situation worse. Given the system ZoS has implemented, IMO the more civil solution is to just request ZoS branch out the number of sources that can drop said leads. It's not like the existing lead system makes archeological sense anyway, so you might as well have leads drop from multiple sources to provide players with options. Treasure hunters can scour the overland for leads, combat vets will scour dungeons and trials, PvP players will grab leads off the corpses of other players. Nobody has to be forced to do something they don't want, and everybody gets to earn the new collectables ZoS worked on.

Sephyr wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

So out of 282 leads, having 8 of those leads locked behind PvP is just "too much". LOL!

did you miss the point on purpose or did I explain badly again?

at least one of those leads is part of a desirable item that also required various pve leads. that's what can make it so frustrating - for both sides. cause there you are with an item that's partly complete, but to complete it you are going to have to do something particularly unenjoyable. and haven't you wondered WHY did they hide that lead specificaly... not in Cyrodil. not in battlegrounds. in IC? in case I'm being too subtle - its because people don't like IC so even after being made free for all players, players STILL don't like going there. so there's your motivating factor. a shiny new ring.

they did it to pve only leads as well, spreading them across variety of activities, that tend to be in different lanes for different pve people.

me? I have accepted that there are some leads i'm simply not getting because i'm too old and too tired to be cajoled into spending my game time on activities i do not find fun. but.. i still understand that instead of resignation i'm feeling, other people are feeling frustration.

Okay so a few things here; I won't be 'cajoled' into empathizing with people who don't want to run the content. Do you want to know how many months I had to run vDSA before they added transmutation to get the drop I needed for my 'PvP' build back in the day? Longer than months. Same with vMA. Before transmutation do you want to know how many drops I had to vendor trash that had the wrong trait? Spoiler alert, I was in there for over a year and two months. I finally stopped and waited until they released Clockwork City. So don't give me the whole "the content isn't fun". Running vMA sometimes seven times a day on my days off made Orsinium an abject failure in my eyes. Oh, and let's not forget about the abysmal drop rates of some of the overland gear pieces where you have to spend an arm and a leg at a guild store from some PvEer who doesn't even know why it's expensive and coveted.

So you'll have to forgive me if I'm pressing F on the world's smallest keyboard to those who don't want to run through it to get the shiny.

Same old same old whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right, we know this, but this is yet again about PVE players being forced into PVP areas they are unprepared for and have no hope in when targeted by PVP players that ZOS insist on bullying them into doping in order to achieve a PVE goal.

Because actually attacking someone in a PvP zone is "bullying".

Forcing PVE players to go into PVP areas they are "unprepared for and have no hope in" is bullying by ZOS, yes. For six years they've refused to give us any sort of locker room so people from both camps could at least try to have a setup that worked in the other mode but they simply won't do it. In those circumstances any form of "ZOS is trying to encourage people to get some experience of other modes" is totally a form of bullying.

Sephyr wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

So out of 282 leads, having 8 of those leads locked behind PvP is just "too much". LOL!

did you miss the point on purpose or did I explain badly again?

at least one of those leads is part of a desirable item that also required various pve leads. that's what can make it so frustrating - for both sides. cause there you are with an item that's partly complete, but to complete it you are going to have to do something particularly unenjoyable. and haven't you wondered WHY did they hide that lead specificaly... not in Cyrodil. not in battlegrounds. in IC? in case I'm being too subtle - its because people don't like IC so even after being made free for all players, players STILL don't like going there. so there's your motivating factor. a shiny new ring.

they did it to pve only leads as well, spreading them across variety of activities, that tend to be in different lanes for different pve people.

me? I have accepted that there are some leads i'm simply not getting because i'm too old and too tired to be cajoled into spending my game time on activities i do not find fun. but.. i still understand that instead of resignation i'm feeling, other people are feeling frustration.

Okay so a few things here; I won't be 'cajoled' into empathizing with people who don't want to run the content. Do you want to know how many months I had to run vDSA before they added transmutation to get the drop I needed for my 'PvP' build back in the day? Longer than months. Same with vMA. Before transmutation do you want to know how many drops I had to vendor trash that had the wrong trait? Spoiler alert, I was in there for over a year and two months. I finally stopped and waited until they released Clockwork City. So don't give me the whole "the content isn't fun". Running vMA sometimes seven times a day on my days off made Orsinium an abject failure in my eyes. Oh, and let's not forget about the abysmal drop rates of some of the overland gear pieces where you have to spend an arm and a leg at a guild store from some PvEer who doesn't even know why it's expensive and coveted.

So you'll have to forgive me if I'm pressing F on the world's smallest keyboard to those who don't want to run through it to get the shiny.

Same old same old whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right, we know this, but this is yet again about PVE players being forced into PVP areas they are unprepared for and have no hope in when targeted by PVP players that ZOS insist on bullying them into doping in order to achieve a PVE goal.

Because actually attacking someone in a PvP zone is "bullying".

Forcing PVE players to go into PVP areas they are "unprepared for and have no hope in" is bullying by ZOS, yes. For six years they've refused to give us any sort of locker room so people from both camps could at least try to have a setup that worked in the other mode but they simply won't do it. In those circumstances any form of "ZOS is trying to encourage people to get some experience of other modes" is totally a form of bullying.

Nobody is 'forcing' you or anyone to do anything they don't want. If you don't want to run the content, you don't need the Mythic. If you think that's bullying, then that's your problem.

[snip] Yes, ZOS are effectively forcing people to do things by structuring the game such that people must play modes they are "unprepared for and have no hope in" in order to get things ZOS have created for the players. [snip]

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I see it more as stupidity on their part, not adapting marketing and content to account for play patterns. Trying various tricks to get people to go to PvP culminated in giving a PvP DLC away for FREE. How's that for a sign of failure? When you have to give your product away for free, it's a hint no one really wants it.

Somebody at ZOS has a pathological objection to giving players a locker room. Having one would solve so many problems, from letting players have a chance in each mode to allowing for better balancing it's not funny. But for six years the 90% of the population who don't want anything to do with PVP have been bullied like this and it's beyond bizarre. It's actively self-destructive for the game.

[Edited to remove Baiting and Bashing]

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's amazing how people expect the game to cater to one side this late in the game. Amazing in a bad way. I do PvE, PvP, and a bit of RP and I don't even care that I have to go into the IC or Cyrodiil. If people are so averted by PvP that they instantly balk that literally eight of the leads are 'locked' behind PvP, then they don't need those items very much. Yet the rest of them are all in fact locked through PvE activities aside from the starter greens in each zone. Mara forbid that they actually include PvPers for a change despite the short end of the performance stick they've gotten for ages or the fact that BGers can't queue with just ONE friend.

I think it would have not been as much of a point of annoyance for people if it was "ok so these items are pvp only, even if its a 5 lead mythic" rather then each item having parts all over the place.

but.. as i said.. they want to increase participation metrics, so what better way to do it, than scatter particularly good rewards all over the place. it goes in the opposite direction too, they want their pvp only players to step back into pve that they have otherwise been avoiding.

they have been including pvpers for a while now though. between golden vendor, some very cool rewards, including furniture being pvp specific etc - they do include pvpers. but even as they include them, it was still fairly contained until this point. but they don't want people staying in their lanes.

So out of 282 leads, having 8 of those leads locked behind PvP is just "too much". LOL!

did you miss the point on purpose or did I explain badly again?

at least one of those leads is part of a desirable item that also required various pve leads. that's what can make it so frustrating - for both sides. cause there you are with an item that's partly complete, but to complete it you are going to have to do something particularly unenjoyable. and haven't you wondered WHY did they hide that lead specificaly... not in Cyrodil. not in battlegrounds. in IC? in case I'm being too subtle - its because people don't like IC so even after being made free for all players, players STILL don't like going there. so there's your motivating factor. a shiny new ring.

they did it to pve only leads as well, spreading them across variety of activities, that tend to be in different lanes for different pve people.

me? I have accepted that there are some leads i'm simply not getting because i'm too old and too tired to be cajoled into spending my game time on activities i do not find fun. but.. i still understand that instead of resignation i'm feeling, other people are feeling frustration.

Okay so a few things here; I won't be 'cajoled' into empathizing with people who don't want to run the content. Do you want to know how many months I had to run vDSA before they added transmutation to get the drop I needed for my 'PvP' build back in the day? Longer than months. Same with vMA. Before transmutation do you want to know how many drops I had to vendor trash that had the wrong trait? Spoiler alert, I was in there for over a year and two months. I finally stopped and waited until they released Clockwork City. So don't give me the whole "the content isn't fun". Running vMA sometimes seven times a day on my days off made Orsinium an abject failure in my eyes. Oh, and let's not forget about the abysmal drop rates of some of the overland gear pieces where you have to spend an arm and a leg at a guild store from some PvEer who doesn't even know why it's expensive and coveted.

So you'll have to forgive me if I'm pressing F on the world's smallest keyboard to those who don't want to run through it to get the shiny.

[snip] Two wrongs don't make a right, we know this, but this is yet again about PVE players being forced into PVP areas they are unprepared for and have no hope in when targeted by PVP players that ZOS insist on bullying them into doping in order to achieve a PVE goal.

Because actually attacking someone in a PvP zone is "bullying".

Forcing PVE players to go into PVP areas they are "unprepared for and have no hope in" is bullying by ZOS, yes. For six years they've refused to give us any sort of locker room so people from both camps could at least try to have a setup that worked in the other mode but they simply won't do it. In those circumstances any form of "ZOS is trying to encourage people to get some experience of other modes" is totally a form of bullying.

Nobody is 'forcing' you or anyone to do anything they don't want. If you don't want to run the content, you don't need the Mythic. If you think that's bullying, [snip]

[snip] Yes, ZOS are effectively forcing people to do things by structuring the game such that people must play modes they are "unprepared for and have no hope in" in order to get things ZOS have created for the players.[snip]

Yet, I distinctly remember PvEers complaining about the Golden Vendor being added or the call for Maelstroms to be dropped in Normal because running vMA when Transmutation wasn't a thing was 'building character'. You're not going to change my mind, dude. Either form a group and farm the lead or you don't need it. If you think it's nonsense, feel free to ignore it. [snip]

[Quoted post was removed]

No, this topic is about antiquities and them being everywhere for a reason. Ergo, IC leads are there for a reason. It's not an argument because it's my opinion. You have one too and I'm not trying to change yours. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]