Destai wrote: »

mavfin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

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I refuse to buy dungeon DLCs or crown crates. The latter especially are exploitation and the people that buy them are only enabling companies to keep up and expand these practices. I'm happy to buy houses or whatever, but I'd surely buy more things if they were cheaper. I just can't justify paying for the 13k crowns for these things.

I have no problem with what you said, in regard to your own choices. Your choices are your own.

Just remember that every other person has the right to decide on their own to spend on X or Y. Your choices do not have to be their choices, and you don't have the right to make those choices for them.

We're talking about luxury pixel pricing here, not gouging for water in Africa, after all.

Of course they have that right, if you want to call it that. But I think it needs to be said what people are buying into. Like any market, there's all sorts invisible hands nudging people into different directions based on their demand. My intention is to nudge people away from these purchases because I feel like they take away from the enjoyment of the game.

ESO is an expensive game and splices up content to a more minute degree than even some F2P games. I still haven't heard a good justification for why the dungeon DLCs are sold separately from the expansions. They're small focused content that most other games, WoW coming to mind, typically include in their expansions. It's all very intentional and I want people to be aware of that.

Motifs are another example - in Guild Wars 2, a free-to-play with friggin' NCSOFT backing, doesn't even charge that. The item drops, you learn the style, done. Not that I subscribe to the labor theory of value, but that's ridiculous. I think if more people are at least of all the nudging these games do, maybe we can get a return to how gaming used to be. Where it was about the game and not about the shops.

Cheers, mate, for getting it.

The challenge is these things have become very normalized over the past 5-10 years. Folks don’t understand what is wrong with it, and we are even seeing some folks think there is something wrong with a game if it doesn’t offer dozens of microtransactions! Yikes!

But I remember when games were just games. I suppose those who like predatory microtransaction models just have to wait for people like me to die off. Kids growing up now won’t even know what gaming was like before all this noise. There are worser problems in the human world, though, I suppose... but who’d have thought that a sign of being an old codger would be saying “remember when games released finished, with few bugs, and didn’t charge you again for content already in the game?”

cheemers wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

Ps4 per crown is 85g low to 100g norm.

425,000 gold for a full motif isn't bad.

That is not relevant to the cash to crown conversion which is what the discussion is about. Unless we want to talk about rates for the gold sellers.

It totally is relevant - there's an active in-game economy of paying gold to have crown items gifted to you by other players.

Is their a save way to trade gold<>crown? I'm sitting on Millions of gold and don't know what to do with it anymore. And how does it work? (via gift option I think?) nightfall crate will have some nice apex I would like to have but don't want to spend € for for potion/emote/skins/dresses etc. I will never use.

You're getting what you're asking for. And since you're all too happy to just throw bags of money at them for rediculous and pointless crap they of course gonna milk ya.

Buy stupid stuff, pay stupid prices...

They absolutely are. I make the occasional crown purchase (housing is my addiction), within reason, in addition to ESO+. What about all the other players who would also like to enjoy these things, but don't have the budget, or have better self control than I do? And don't get me started on what gaming used to be. Granted, ESO being an MMO has some leeway in comparison to, say, TES5: Skyrim, because it absolutely makes sense ESO needs funds to continue to support the game. Its the world we live in, nothing is free, but in-game purchases (all around, not just ESO) are a beast that's gone un-tamed.

Housing is extremely predatory. Not only do houses have an outrageous price tag, but now you have to purchase furniture? That's supposed to be the fun part. Yah, you can grind to the point of not enjoying the game to get what you want (already did that, and stopped playing for a month), or you can open up your wallet to the disgusting prices (done that too). ESO+ will get you enough crowns for maaaaaybe one room of decor... more like one corner of a room. And they want us to buy houses like Daggerfall Overlook...

Trying to justify these prices or practices because "its personal choice?" Valid point, but an invalid argument. Comparing subjective transfer rates between gold/crowns? Again, valid point, but invalid argument. The price of crowns, and the crown prices, are exorbitant. That is the point. That is the problem.

To make things even worse, they have crown crates. Now there's a second layer of currency. Consider how many crowns you'd need to purchase, to get X number of crates. Then consider how many crates you need to open, before you actually get the content you desire, or acquire enough crown gems to directly purchase what you want (a purposeful dance to get you to buy more and more instead of putting items for purchase with crowns). Then, every time you log in, they dangle the carrot in front of you.

Shagreth wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Trying to justify these prices or practices because "its personal choice?" Valid point, but an invalid argument. Comparing subjective transfer rates between gold/crowns? Again, valid point, but invalid argument. The price of crowns, and the crown prices, are exorbitant. That is the point. That is the problem.

All in all you put into words what I had in my mind, perfectly. Before, I also indulged myself into the endless pit that is housing system in ESO, there was no end to it, especially if you got one of those big notable homes. Despite being in some very dire straits lately, you bet I'm going to try and buy that new blackreach Vampire Home, but if the furnished version costs 20k, well...

I could always see the problem, even before when money wasn't that much of an issue for me, but now it's just magnified and for some reason it seems to me that it's escalating.

I might go so far as to identify as a recovering whale lol so this topic hits close to home. I used to play a mobile MMO with "summons," but over time they just got way out of hand *eye begins twitching*. Now the summon rates are complete garbage, and if you do get that prized hero, its irrelevant in a few months, due to the latest and greatest.

Being reformed, now.... :P I have been saving crowns for the new vampire home. It will be a wonderful contrast to my bright alinor townhouse!

Shagreth wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

I might go so far as to identify as a recovering whale lol so this topic hits close to home. I used to play a mobile MMO with "summons," but over time they just got way out of hand *eye begins twitching*. Now the summon rates are complete garbage, and if you do get that prized hero, its irrelevant in a few months, due to the latest and greatest.

Being reformed, now.... :P I have been saving crowns for the new vampire home. It will be a wonderful contrast to my bright alinor townhouse!

I never quite reached that level with Gacha games, but I've heard some utterly insane numbers per year of how much they are making. The cost to maintain & update ESO is of course higher, I'm really curious how much they make from crates and houses. I really wish prices were better for ESO, I want to be able to support the Developers without feeling bad about it. Here's hoping for a good price for the vampire home.

my guess is in the range of the observatory in clockwork city - but best luck to you anyway.

Destai wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

They absolutely are. I make the occasional crown purchase (housing is my addiction), within reason, in addition to ESO+. What about all the other players who would also like to enjoy these things, but don't have the budget, or have better self control than I do? And don't get me started on what gaming used to be. Granted, ESO being an MMO has some leeway in comparison to, say, TES5: Skyrim, because it absolutely makes sense ESO needs funds to continue to support the game. Its the world we live in, nothing is free, but in-game purchases (all around, not just ESO) are a beast that's gone un-tamed.

Housing is extremely predatory. Not only do houses have an outrageous price tag, but now you have to purchase furniture? That's supposed to be the fun part. Yah, you can grind to the point of not enjoying the game to get what you want (already did that, and stopped playing for a month), or you can open up your wallet to the disgusting prices (done that too). ESO+ will get you enough crowns for maaaaaybe one room of decor... more like one corner of a room. And they want us to buy houses like Daggerfall Overlook...

Trying to justify these prices or practices because "its personal choice?" Valid point, but an invalid argument. Comparing subjective transfer rates between gold/crowns? Again, valid point, but invalid argument. The price of crowns, and the crown prices, are exorbitant. That is the point. That is the problem.

To make things even worse, they have crown crates. Now there's a second layer of currency. Consider how many crowns you'd need to purchase, to get X number of crates. Then consider how many crates you need to open, before you actually get the content you desire, or acquire enough crown gems to directly purchase what you want (a purposeful dance to get you to buy more and more instead of putting items for purchase with crowns). Then, every time you log in, they dangle the carrot in front of you.

Fantastic response man. I just don't think there's any justification for $100+ houses. There's no excuse for the crown crates exploiting players. People keep talking about personal choice, but give no thought to how their choices are nudged and shaped by in-game environments. I think we're all willing to support the game financially. We're just not willing to be exploited over it. And for those who keep buying crown crates, you're part of the problem. I was part of the problem when I bought Daggerfall Overlook (albeit less so when the crowns were on sale). There's simply too much content in that store that could have been in the game.

The most aggravating part for me is how I genuinely love most of the content in the store. They aren't trying to sell garbage, they are just way overpricing everything, and lately it seems more and more items are becoming crate items.... Is it a sign? Is this game becoming less profitable and this is their plan to save it? Or is it a sign of their greed because the game IS successful?

I used to play ESO a looooong time ago on PC, then immediately quit. I looked at the crown store, scoffed, and never touched it again. It wasn't until a friend started playing that I decided to give it another shot on PS4. I always liked the game, but knew I wanted all the things I couldn't have at the time and was not going to offer up my wallet, so I thought it best to quit.

Reason I have ESO+ is because I think it is a good price for what you are getting in return, comparable to similar memberships on the mmo market, and it supports the game. I'm sure most of us share the sentiment of wanting to support ESO. But these crates and prices are insulting.

I am very against the gem only items as it promotes gambling.

Occasionally i think about what MMO will replace ESO as my go to time and money waster 5 years from now.