Rich Lambert's stance on perfected master and maelstrom weapons

Fjorynn · May 2020

John_Falstaff wrote: »

So you haven't read PTS and don't know about Asylum staff changes. Figures.

If there is a VAS thread we might want to discuss that over there.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

The ZOS apologists on here make me feel like I'm talking to [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove baiting]

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2020

Ysbriel wrote: »

What baffles me is that some people who are defending Rich in this post is the same people i’ve seen in previous post talking about how they do not care for VMA and other arena contents... why are you here then?

If you do care that much about VMA, why does it bother you so much to run it again ? What are you doing whining here ? You should be happy to have a new fresh reason to run your favourite content.

heaven13 · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Fjorynn wrote: »

It's a case of turning "not gaining" into "losing". Just because someone refuses to farm perfected weapons it doesn't mean they're losing what they already have. Also from what I've read maesltrom weapons are getting a baseline buff. So who's losing really?

From what I understand, people lose BiS. And BiS is everything.
VMA weapons are BiS, BiS will be perfected VMA weapons starting tomorrow, people need BiS, whatever's not BiS is worth zero in their eyes, so they lose literally everything by losing BiS.

That's all there's to it, really. Plus, the image factor of wearing a non-perfected Maelstroem weapon, which will be available to all of us peasants from tomorrow on.

Some may feel like Rich says : want the newest fastest shiniest car ? Pay again.
But many may feel like their life savings have just melted into the void through a sudden 10000% inflation. The banknotes may still show 100$ face value, but they aren't worth a dime anymore.

I truly understand both points of view. But guess what ? Bottom line, I feel even happier to have dropped min-maxing and "competition" in this game, and to have stopped VMA progression at the third stage. I feel no frustration whatsoever.

(That being said, I am again horrified by the lack of respect people show in this thread towards ZOS employees - including Rich, who's done nothing wrong and nothing "unprofessional", and by the way so many of you pretend to know how to run a company like ZOS - while presenting evidence in every single of their sentences that they don't have a clue).

If you think this has to do with the perfected items being BiS you actually don't understand both points of view. The pen bonus on the maelstrom staff is laughable. You'll either overpen on backbar or underpen on front bar. @T3hasiangod did an entire video on it showing different parses between the weapons with adjusted CP. Also a video for the bow as well, which has the same issue but with weapon crit.

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · May 2020

Well to be honest he is right
We farmed the normal varient not the perfected one
We did not earn the perfected version under any circomtance and is is analogy with the car is the perfect exemple

To those who say we had those in the past, its not totaly true
The one you had in the past could not have an enchantment on top of the stat bonus and the weapon effect so on paper are stronger than the og weapon( did not test im on ps4)

Also it breath life back in old content

In the end its my opinion and it may differ from yours but its ok

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

CleymenZero · May 2020

I think it's civil to comment on his attitude.

He uses weak logic to justify his decision so I'd rather he just justify it by saying: "it's like that because I want it to be like that".

That would surprisingly be a more appropriate answer and here's why:
- "you're not losing power" - well, you are first of all giving it to everyone so the advantage I have of being able to complete the arena (as trivial as it was) is lost but that's not the biggest thing.

By adding new bonuses, you're not decreasing my current power but increasing the power level (as insignificant as it'll be) so it's EXACTLY like increasing the level cap which I am completely against. You make me refarm my sets, I'm F*%@&G out!

I've always considered this to be a great thing about eso, the fact that you wouldn't be thrown into another stupid farming cycle. A lot of games did it and a lot of em are dead.

- The car dealership is also such weak logic. You're taking about tangible goods that depreciate over time. If you start comparing item sets to compare it to real world products, do it for every product and that logic will fail as often as it will work, that's why it can't work.

If you want to compare things properly, compare it to any other item set in the game. The precedent you are setting with this is that at any time, you could decide to give a perfected item set to everyone and add a new super perfected version to send the endgame community into a grind cycle.

THE ONLY WAY THIS COULD WORK is if you made perfected VO for example where regular VO was always available in vet and normal and now only available in vet (means of acquisition is an important concept here). That wouldn't cut off such a big player base because everyone could farm vet easily enough. It would send us into a farming cycle but it wouldn't seem so arbitrary. I got 3/4 of my VO pieces in normal and the rest in vet so them all being kept into regular VO wouldn't affecte as much as you would introduce a new means of acquisition system for the 2 different sets.

Essentially, this move is not welcomed by the majority of the player base because it sets a bad precedent to send players into arbitrary grinding cycles and the current way of acquiring current normal arena weapons is the same as the perfected arena weapons.

It's basically as if the normal black rose didn't exist and you made my perfected black rose weapons normal and introduced a perfected version. Do you not see this @ZOS_RichLambert? You're probably swarmed and will probably never see my post but I think I made very good points.

mairwen85 · May 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Fjorynn wrote: »

It's a case of turning "not gaining" into "losing". Just because someone refuses to farm perfected weapons it doesn't mean they're losing what they already have. Also from what I've read maesltrom weapons are getting a baseline buff. So who's losing really?

From what I understand, people lose BiS. And BiS is everything.
VMA weapons are BiS, BiS will be perfected VMA weapons starting tomorrow, people need BiS, whatever's not BiS is worth zero in their eyes, so they lose literally everything by losing BiS.

That's all there's to it, really. Plus, the image factor of wearing a non-perfected Maelstroem weapon, which will be available to all of us peasants from tomorrow on.

Some may feel like Rich says : want the newest fastest shiniest car ? Pay again.
But many may feel like their life savings have just melted into the void through a sudden 10000% inflation. The banknotes may still show 100$ face value, but they aren't worth a dime anymore.

I truly understand both points of view. But guess what ? Bottom line, I feel even happier to have dropped min-maxing and "competition" in this game, and to have stopped VMA progression at the third stage. I feel no frustration whatsoever.

(That being said, I am again horrified by the lack of respect people show in this thread towards ZOS employees - including Rich, who's done nothing wrong and nothing "unprofessional", and by the way so many of you pretend to know how to run a company like ZOS - while presenting evidence in every single of their sentences that they don't have a clue).

If you think this has to do with the perfected items being BiS you actually don't understand both points of view. The pen bonus on the maelstrom staff is laughable. You'll either overpen on backbar or underpen on front bar. @T3hasiangod did an entire video on it showing different parses between the weapons with adjusted CP. Also a video for the bow as well, which has the same issue but with weapon crit.

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

More concerning is that agreement with this change of approach is a green light to apply the same mentality to everything and anything. Until it affects something those in agreement this time around feel strongly about, your opinion falls on deaf ears.

Sanguinor2 · May 2020

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Well to be honest he is right
We farmed the normal varient not the perfected one
We did not earn the perfected version under any circomtance and is is analogy with the car is the perfect exemple

To those who say we had those in the past, its not totaly true
The one you had in the past could not have an enchantment on top of the stat bonus and the weapon effect so on paper are stronger than the og weapon( did not test im on ps4)

Also it breath life back in old content

In the end its my opinion and it may differ from yours but its ok

No he isnt.
We farmed the vet reward not the normal reward. Yet we will have the normal reward but not the vet reward come greymoor.
If I clear Veteran today, I literally end up with tomorrows reward from normal. How does that make sense?

Ysbriel · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

What baffles me is that some people who are defending Rich in this post is the same people i’ve seen in previous post talking about how they do not care for VMA and other arena contents... why are you here then?

If you do care that much about VMA, why does it bother you so much to run it again ? What are you doing whining here ? You should be happy to have a new fresh reason to run your favourite content.

Sorry but you are wrong buddy, i am like every other person who is not happy with this, a CUSTOMER, i don’t have to be glad about anything. I am either satisfied with the service i paid for or unsatisfied. Zenimax is the service provideder, they are the ones who have to worry about the “glad” feeling. Glad they have customers, glad if they are able to provide a satisfactory service. That is the problem with the mentality in this community. It’s not about having every single
detail be as everyone thinks it should, it’s about when are we going to finally see a change that is satisfactory to an agreeable degree for the customers? Richard used the analogy of a car, lets use the analogy of an iphone, do you have to buy specifically the most recent iphone to get the latest version? NO, there is a list of back compatibility with previous phone releases, some people will be the latest phone, some people will keep the current one but still spend money in the app store and some people will buy the older phones but money is made, satisfied customer and glad service providers. All people are asking is about the same thing, ok there is a new version, but why i cannot have back compatibility?

mairwen85 · May 2020

Ironically, I wouldn't mind buying the whole game over for a perfect version of it.

protofeckless · May 2020

FWIW, my car gets a software update monthly, so it's a better product now than when I bought it. Also, it's under warranty, so the manufacturer fixes *** that's broken. In any case I'm not required to re-pay for the car I paid for in the first place.

Whoever came up with the car analogy on this is a moron.

Czekoludek · May 2020

Kaliki wrote: »

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

The ZOS apologists on here make me feel like I'm talking to [snip]

I find it curious that some go to such lengths to defend ZOSs position as if they would gain anything by doing that.

On the other hand, the large number of trolls that support ZOS on this issue says quite a lot about the entire discussion.

It's not like ZOS would lose anything by keeping vet rewards vet rewards. So why would they go out their way to make players unhappy?

They probably know Greymoor content is not enough to keep players occupied for enough time.

John_Falstaff · May 2020

Fjorynn wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

So you haven't read PTS and don't know about Asylum staff changes. Figures.

If there is a VAS thread we might want to discuss that over there.

We're discussing Lamber's case of double standards where he compares vMA staff with new car, but downgrades are Asylum car even after we bought it; I realize that you've decided to discuss something that only exists in your mind and differs from the discussion topic of of the thread, so I'll leave you to it.

OrphanHelgen · May 2020

If they kept maelstrom arena the same difficulty with the same cp, the same drop rates and even the same bugs as it had during release, those who complain they have to "redo" maelstrom for weapons wouldnt even have their weapons at all.

heaven13 · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Again, wrong. I won't say everyone since I'm sure there's someone out there unhappy that normal is getting weapons at all, but everyone I know is upset because their vet reward weapons are being turned into the normal reward weapons. In fact, those people also think it's a good idea that weapons be offered on normal, like the other arenas.

ZoS could have simply renamed all current "The Maelstrom's ____" into "The Perfected Maelstrom's ____" and added the extra stat. They've renamed items previously, they've changed/added stats previously. This would have changed all existing items into the perfected versions (since they were farmed on vet, which is the way you will get perfected after the patch, no other hard mode or content required). Then a new item would be created for normal reward. Boom. (Nearly) Everyone happy. (again, won't say everyone since I am sure there are outliers but that's not the majority's issue)

It's the principle that matters. I earned ALL my weapons on vet since it is currently the only method of obtaining them. My weapons should stay vet rewards after the patch, whether the buffed bonus is good or bad. I don't care if player83785093 can get an inferno staff on normal. I care that the time I spent farming vet to get all my weapons now counts as farming normal. My time has not been respected. Content has not changed.

GrumpyDuckling · May 2020

Looking at this screenshot, the frustrating part of the communication is how Rich Lambert pretends to be confused and not understand why players like Baloo might be annoyed -- you can see this by Lambert's use of question marks. He is using question marks to undermine the significance of the player's emotion/argument and establish superiority, as if he (Lambert) knows best and is disciplining a child by making them think about how foolish they are for not being able to understand a decision (you will often see parents employ this tactic because they know they hold power over the child when it comes to final decision-making).

Lambert would have been fine if he had just stopped there, but the hilarious part arises when Lambert attempts to justify his stance, and deploys an argument consisting of a poorly thought-out analogy which falls flat on its face -- this is where the child (players) catches the parent being lazy and exposes their faulty logic.

Now, we are at the part where the parent (Lambert) just stays quiet and says "go to your room" because he knows that his logic has been defeated and his only move is to assert his position of power and silence/ignore the child (players). The screenshot discussion and subsequent silence paints Lambert in a situation where he can't admit his logic was faulty, so he simply asserts dominance. This whole situation is emotionally-laced and just silly.

Casul · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Your argument is laughable. I am happy for my friends who can't beat vMA currently because the weapons will help. Most of them take my advice in high regard and understand that vMA is a proving ground that will teach a player to persevere and in the end will make them a much better player. This is an issue of devaluing time and nothing more.

Elsonso · May 2020

.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Fjorynn wrote: »

It's a case of turning "not gaining" into "losing". Just because someone refuses to farm perfected weapons it doesn't mean they're losing what they already have. Also from what I've read maesltrom weapons are getting a baseline buff. So who's losing really?

Huh? Do you remember that they stripped 1p boni of maelstrom weapons in the past just to reintroduce them now on "new items"? So on the long term we're losing out very well.

Just to be clear, not all of the perfected weapons re-introduce buffs that were part of the original enchantments.

BRCOURTN · May 2020

BuildMan wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Your argument is laughable. I am happy for my friends who can't beat vMA currently because the weapons will help. Most of them take my advice in high regard and understand that vMA is a proving ground that will teach a player to persevere and in the end will make them a much better player. This is an issue of devaluing time and nothing more.

People keep talking about devaluing time... its an mmo inwhich grind plays a heavy part. If you truly value your time so much, then you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

John_Falstaff · May 2020

BRCOURTN wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Your argument is laughable. I am happy for my friends who can't beat vMA currently because the weapons will help. Most of them take my advice in high regard and understand that vMA is a proving ground that will teach a player to persevere and in the end will make them a much better player. This is an issue of devaluing time and nothing more.

People keep talking about devaluing time... its an mmo inwhich grind plays a heavy part. If you truly value your time so much, then you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

ESO was always known as MMO which is less grindy than most others, which is one of things it's valued for. If it's going the route of adding more stupid repetitive grind, then indeed there's way less incentive to play it over other MMOs, simple as that.

karekiz · May 2020

I can't wait till Greymoore launches and the posts of I will leave the game are going to most likely be in VMA for 3-4 days grinding the weapons. It will be funny as hell.

furiouslog · May 2020

The fundamental difference between the two arguments that have been presented over and over again on this forum and elsewhere is due to a perception of what the arena gear means. Rich takes the position that the veteran arena gear is a product, and as such, subject to all economic rules applicable to products. Others (myself included) take the position that the gear is a reward that represents something earned through hard work.

I understand Rich's argument from a cold, logical perspective. It makes sense, in the same way that many logical extrapolations of a concept can lead to conclusions that appear bizarre or inhumane (e.g. A Modest Proposal).

The flaw in Rich's argument is that it fails to acknowledge the "reward" perception of many of his customers. I initially farmed the vMA flame staff as a means to an end for min-maxing my dps. It literally took me months to work through my first run of vMA because it was so challenging and frustrating. I got the sword and shield on that first run. Sigh. I went back and kept at it, getting better at vMA. My high score is now somewhere in the high 200Ks (I'm not a very good player). During those runs over the past year, I never really enjoyed it. I viewed it as a means to an end to get the reward, a reward resultant from efforts put forth within buggy and bad instances, desyncs, skill misfires, and frustrating RNG mechanics. Literal weeks of playtime spent grinding that content that did nothing more than frustrate me and make me angry.

When I finally got the staff, I ceased doing vMA, apart from going in once recently to see if a recent patch fixed the technical problems with the arena (they didn't).

That staff was a goal. It represents the time I spent learning the arena, learning to adapt to its design (mechanics) and technical challenges (bugs), and living through the frustration of the random value of the reward I'd receive for my efforts. Not having that staff upgraded does not frustrate me from a gear perspective. I know the bonus is negligible when it comes to being able to clear content. It frustrates me because it represented my efforts and achievement, and to have that effort callously undermined by making the same achievement available for much less effort is what I think is unfair, and apart from a ticked box in my achievement section, it's as if I never did any of that work at all. The goal I achieved is rendered meaningless. It's no longer special. As of tomorrow, I will have no reward that represents my achievement. It's like I never did it.

Furthermore, forcing me to re-grind the same arena to earn the upgraded reward in an already challenging game environment that is plagued by game-breaking lag and bugs is totally unacceptable. It's not core to the issue, but it's adding insult to injury.

I don't expect people who don't view it that way or do not emotionally connect with my perspective to also feel that way, but I am asking you to logically acknowledge that my perception of the reward is valid, and that my feelings about the matter are equally valid given that perception.

I'm definitely going to do nMA a few times to fill out gear on my alts. If they ever get the game to a state where it functions properly, I might even do vMA again just to do it and get my score better, or try for Flawless someday, but it does not mitigate my anger at the unfairness of this situation given my perspective. It is clear evidence that ZOS has minimal empathy for their most loyal consumers, and the fact that the only insight that we, as a community, have received on this issue comes from a Discord log is unfathomable.

So, ZOS, by way of being constructive, here is my feedback: please acknowledge the discontent of many of your customers, and communicate your rationale for this decision publicly in a way that considers the multiple perceptions of your consumers with understanding and empathy.

Czekoludek · May 2020

BRCOURTN wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Your argument is laughable. I am happy for my friends who can't beat vMA currently because the weapons will help. Most of them take my advice in high regard and understand that vMA is a proving ground that will teach a player to persevere and in the end will make them a much better player. This is an issue of devaluing time and nothing more.

People keep talking about devaluing time... its an mmo inwhich grind plays a heavy part. If you truly value your time so much, then you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

I would happily waste time grinding the new content but unfortunately sets from new trial are just simply bad. I spent hours in vma, got my first inferno staff after 37 clears. Why I should grind old content for bis? No other MMO do that and there is a reason why. Glad that ppl who couldn't beat vma will have a chance to get good weapons but why i'm forced to regrind OLD content if I want to stay min-maxed? vMA is the most tedious gear grind in the whole game and it is boring after you did it 200+ times. New gear = new content. That's how it should be. What if they decide that regrind vma was such a great idea, that they should introduce Perfect version of dungeon gear? They should convince US to grind new content, old is for ppl who didn't finish it already

Ascarl · May 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Looking at this screenshot, the frustrating part of the communication is how Rich Lambert pretends to be confused and not understand why players like Baloo might be annoyed -- you can see this by Lambert's use of question marks. He is using question marks to undermine the significance of the player's emotion/argument and establish superiority, as if he (Lambert) knows best and is disciplining a child by making them think about how foolish they are for not being able to understand a decision (you will often see parents employ this tactic because they know they hold power over the child when it comes to final decision-making).

Lambert would have been fine if he had just stopped there, but the hilarious part arises when Lambert attempts to justify his stance, and deploys an argument consisting of a poorly thought-out analogy which falls flat on its face -- this is where the child (players) catches the parent being lazy and exposes their faulty logic.

Now, we are at the part where the parent (Lambert) just stays quiet and says "go to your room" because he knows that his logic has been defeated and his only move is to assert his position of power and silence/ignore the child (players). The screenshot discussion and subsequent silence paints Lambert in a situation where he can't admit his logic was faulty, so he simply asserts dominance. This whole situation is emotionally-laced and just silly.

I can fully understand his confusion as the whole argument is really hard to understand despite the fact that the supporters of this idea call everyone who won't follow their arguments as wrong, trolls etc.
I even wonder why he responds to people like the person who PMed him in this aggressive manner. I wouldn't. And given the fact that this private conversation was dragged to the forums, I bet he won't answer any more private messages. So gratulations on that one.

silvereyes · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".

This is a misunderstanding, although out of context, I can definitely see how someone might interpret the commotion that way.

HankTwo wrote: »

Baloo doesn't have a problem with players getting access to non-perfected weapons in normal next patch.

I don't either. Nor do most of the people I have seen who are critical of ZOS' stance on how to treat existing veteran arena weapons.

For me, it's not about the stats. It's not about the buffs or nerfs. It's not about wearing a status symbol or having the text "perfected" plastered on the item name.

It's about this:

They've lost sight of (or never knew) what makes the game fun. The game is already a boring grind fest to them. It's a job to them. As long as they keep players busy, they judge themselves successful.

Rich is technically right. Nobody has earned the new weapons before.

Rich is also very wrong, because he's not even having the right conversation.

There's no law that says every new unique thing in the game needs to be "earned". Earning things is all well and good, as long as its fun. In a game, the sole goal of designers should always being making it fun.

Arbitrarily reworking an entire rewards tier structure is not something ZOS has done since the VR16 switch in Update 7. Nearly the entire lifetime of the game has enjoyed a stable rewards system for existing content, and new rewards tiers only got introduced with new content.

They could have chosen to handle the introduction of perfected weapons to old content in any way. But rather than ask themselves what would be the most fun transition for the players, they are stuck in a logical bubble arguing about earning and grinding. They are yelling at the stadium asking, "are you not entertained!?," fulfilling the mechanics of the job without understanding the soul of it.

No, I am not entertained. And the fact that you even have to ask it does not bode well for the future of entertainment in this game.

BRCOURTN · May 2020

John_Falstaff wrote: »

BRCOURTN wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Your argument is laughable. I am happy for my friends who can't beat vMA currently because the weapons will help. Most of them take my advice in high regard and understand that vMA is a proving ground that will teach a player to persevere and in the end will make them a much better player. This is an issue of devaluing time and nothing more.

People keep talking about devaluing time... its an mmo inwhich grind plays a heavy part. If you truly value your time so much, then you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

ESO was always known as MMO which is less grindy than most others, which is one of things it's valued for. If it's going the route of adding more stupid repetitive grind, then indeed there's way less incentive to play it over other MMOs, simple as that.

I mean I've run crypt of hearts about 50 times with no ebon lightning staff. There are similar situations with other items. Many people grind city of ash forever for the bsw inferno. Alkosh shield and lightning also sucks as a farm. There's a pretty huge item grind in this game to get exactly what you want.

Elsonso · May 2020

John_Falstaff wrote: »

ESO was always known as MMO which is less grindy than most others, which is one of things it's valued for. If it's going the route of adding more stupid repetitive grind, then indeed there's way less incentive to play it over other MMOs, simple as that.

These arenas were grindy to start with, if your goal was to obtain a specific version of a weapon.

My perception of the grind is enough that I do not have any of these weapons, and have little desire to even try to get one. So, from where I sit, this is a net-zero change in grindiness.

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Further proof the devs don't really play their own game.

In this case, a hollow accusation. Lambert plays VMA and makes use of these weapons. He has even shown his build. His last announced score was 592k, although I cannot independently verify that.

heaven13 · May 2020

BRCOURTN wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

BRCOURTN wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

It comes down to respecting your players' time. Those who farmed the weapons completed the content on vet. U26 will turn their vet rewards into normal rewards. Nothing about the content has changed. Vet weapons should remain vet weapons.

If BiS is not an issue then the issue is that their hard earned weapons will be available to all "peasants".
Now that, while psychologically understandable, is truly laughable.

Your argument is laughable. I am happy for my friends who can't beat vMA currently because the weapons will help. Most of them take my advice in high regard and understand that vMA is a proving ground that will teach a player to persevere and in the end will make them a much better player. This is an issue of devaluing time and nothing more.

People keep talking about devaluing time... its an mmo inwhich grind plays a heavy part. If you truly value your time so much, then you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

ESO was always known as MMO which is less grindy than most others, which is one of things it's valued for. If it's going the route of adding more stupid repetitive grind, then indeed there's way less incentive to play it over other MMOs, simple as that.

I mean I've run crypt of hearts about 50 times with no ebon lightning staff. There are similar situations with other items. Many people grind city of ash forever for the bsw inferno. Alkosh shield and lightning also sucks as a farm. There's a pretty huge item grind in this game to get exactly what you want.

And once you get it, you're done (unless you want another and that's up to you). You don't need to regrind later because the gear cap has increased. Or a new perfected version was added to that old dungeon.

Until now.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO · May 2020

HaruKamui wrote: »

I find it curious that the people who dont like the implementation is calling those who agree with it as apologists, as if stating for a fact that their opinion is the correct opinion.

Our opinion is logical. Rich Lambert's stance and his car analogy are simply not logical.

It costs them nothing other than the dev time and QC to upgrade the existing weapons. There is no technical hurdle here. What this will do is disenfranchise players and that obviously has long-term impact on the game.

The only upside to this is that it will be easier to find vDSA groups, because people will want to farm it again.

You people are so eager to get down on your knees.

xaraan · May 2020

protofeckless wrote: »

FWIW, my car gets a software update monthly, so it's a better product now than when I bought it. Also, it's under warranty, so the manufacturer fixes *** that's broken. In any case I'm not required to re-pay for the car I paid for in the first place.

Whoever came up with the car analogy on this is a moron.

This ^
We can also sell our car and buy a new one, is Rich saying it is ok to sell our game and account now to buy a different game if we are unhappy?

In the end, his excuse is just a weak cover for turning the game into the same boring style gear grind other mmo's are disliked for. And honestly, he should save the attitude for when he can get the game to work right.