Nightblade: Shadow disguise vs Simply crouching

derrey.xavierb16_ESO · April 2014

There's something I don't understand with the stleath bonuses mechanics.

Here's the test I did drive:

I landed a surprise attack on same type of NPC in several situations.

- Just standing in front of NPC: 246 damage
- Being invisible from Shadow Disguise: 411 damage (CRIT)
- Being invisible from crouching: 1080 damage (CRIT)

Reading twice all my passives bonuses, I can't find what make the crouched attack 2.6x more powerfull than when invisible from Shadow Disguise.

Is there a bonus for crouched invisible attacks in core calculations that's not due to any skill ?

uktitanb16_ESO · April 2014

I would like to know this too,

Daendur · April 2014

i think you have a passive that gives you a +10%critical damage
- take al this math with a grain of salt (don't know exact damage formula with redutions and everything) -
246 = base damage
246 + 50%(critical)+10% = 406 (~411)
246 + 300%(crouch ambush bonus) + 10% = 1082

if ZOS can give us damage formula would be nice ... how critical works, how armor and damage reduction works ....

Hexcaliber · April 2014

There is a passive in assassination "master assassin" that gives a 10% increase in the base damage when stealth or crouched, and "haemorrhage" that gives increased crit damage of 10%. Further, if you have the dual wield passive "twin blade and blunt" you will get a crit bonus of 10% wielding dual dagger.

@Daendur the bonuses that add 10% crit damage, apply equally to all crit attacks.

derrey.xavierb16_ESO · April 2014

Thanks a lot.
That's exactly this.

I wasn't aware of the crouched backstab bonus.
I'll have to rethink my approachs, at least that gives more meaning to all the stealth passive bonuses

Daendur · April 2014

"master assassin" should increase weapon damage so it should not increase damage of "surprise attack".

GwaynLoki · April 2014

My usual move is to approach the first enemy crouched, then, before he detects me, I use Shadowy Disguise to get behind him and hit him with Veiled Strike. This seems to be the best method, dealing the highest dmg.
Might be it does the same damage when just attacking from crouched, but when I started the game I had no passives for better stealth and got detected before I managed to get close to an enemy. Going to give it a try tonight and see whether it's different

Sorpaijen_ESO · April 2014

I hadn't thought to use the invis cloak to supplement a conventional sneak attack but there are often times when there are two foes facing each other and even with Medium Armor stealth bonuses and bonuses to sneak speed and so forth (Shadow passive, I believe).... one of them still twigs to my presence and I lose the opening shot.

It'd be interesting to know if using the invis cloak during the last second of the "approach" would count as an attack from invis-cloak or if it would still count as an attack "from stealth" with the larger bonus damage. Maybe it's not so much that the damage is X when using the cloak, but X when attacking from stealth BEFORE combat begins. The fact that the invis cloak lets you close the gap without being detected while still in stealth would suggest to me that we should get the full from-stealth damage bonus. Have to try this out.

Yelgis · April 2014

If you are already sneaking and cloak you still get the full sneak attack bonus. The invis from cloak does not count as stealth, but it does count for some skills the NB has.

Most skills that do something extra from stealth mention stealth OR invisibility as a condition for it like Vieled Strike does. Cloak doesn't break stealth but it doesn't give stealth either. It simply makes you invisible for almost 3 seconds and the only thing that can detect you in it is Magelight or getting hit by an aoe.

If cloak gave you true stealth, NB would be severely OP because I could guarantee mutliple 1800 damage (what my Vieled Strike is hitting for from stealth) every single fight.

jeagerb16_ESO · April 2014

Interestingly vampire skills counts shadow cloak as allowing you to feed (as if from stealth/crouch, even in the middle of a fight. Throws a slight spanner in the works for it's status as stealth/not stealth.

The other thing I've noticed that is a massive benefit to cloak (as if temporarily 'stunning' just about anything and gaining extra crit chance or dumping an active debuff wasn't good enough) is that any incoming damage about to hit is nullified and associated debuffs not applied, even for AoE attacks assuming they have been cast. About the only thing that cuts through it is damage auras from sorcerers/atranochs etc.

Lynx7386 · April 2014

As far as I can tell, crouched stealth/sneaking gives you a damage bonus. You do not get that damage bonus when using invisibility (through potions or nightblade skills). Invisibility does, however, count as stealth for the purpose of additional effects like stunning with veiled strike.