My issue with Maelstrom Weapons

lulose · May 2020

Hi all,

With Greymoor giving us the option to jump back into veteran Maelstrom Arena for "upgraded" weapons it just doesn't feel fair.

The arena is the same as it was when I ran it years ago.

While I find it easier these days (from levelling, power creep and practice) there is still that awkward lag, sometimes desyncing for a whole second, and terrible Item RNG that makes it an excercise in patience.

It is not fun or fair content in this state, why not add a simple token system or reduce its server load?

Thanks,
lulose

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

They should just upgrade the current weapons....that would be fair.

heaven13 · May 2020

Doesn't even matter at this point because the perfected bonuses miss the mark entirely on why one should want to put in the extra effort required to obtain them.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

Doesn't even matter at this point because the perfected bonuses miss the mark entirely on why one should want to put in the extra effort required to obtain them.

It is not about the bonus but the principle of the matter. ZOS is downgrading weapons that were earned fairly in a Vet Solo Arena by many players.

After spending months on the leaderboards on multiple platforms I find this very insulting.

What ever will they decide to take away next...Sorry but this is just the wrong way to do things.

And I feel very badly for the people that struggled to complete the content. Shameful business practices on this one.

They could of added a new, more difficult solo/duo arena in the chapter. Something with exciting new weapons....but nah just a regrind.

A new arena, I would have been excited about that....

heaven13 · May 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Doesn't even matter at this point because the perfected bonuses miss the mark entirely on why one should want to put in the extra effort required to obtain them.

It is not about the bonus but the principle of the matter. ZOS is downgrading weapons that were earned fairly in a Vet Solo Arena by many players.

After spending months on the leaderboards on multiple platforms I find this very insulting.

What ever will they decide to take away next...Sorry but this is just the wrong way to do things.

And I feel very badly for the people that struggled to complete the content. Shameful business practices on this one.

They could of added a new, more difficult solo/duo arena in the chapter. Something with exciting new weapons....but nah just a regrind.

A new arena, I would have been excited about that....

Oh, no I absolutely agree and have been pretty vocal about that. It's a horrible precedent to set, especially since they're capable of changing set pieces all the time and adding new things to them. They're doing it this patch.

What I meant was the "upgraded" weapons are so poorly implemented that unless you plan on running vMA for something else (achievements for example), it isn't worth the pain of lag and poor performance just to try to get perfected. They're that bad.

Dracane · May 2020

I am excited to run the arenas again. Though the overhaul is very underwhelming. 103 spell/weapon damage for a weapons that occupies 2 slots that could be filled with a full set, is a bit... weak? Could have at least been a normal set piece of 129 damage instead. In the case of maelstrom it is non-sensual anyway since most weapons there are mere backbar weapons that get nothing from this.

So refarming them is more of a prestige or min-maxer thing rather than something you actually notice on your recap.

Shantu · May 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

Doesn't even matter at this point because the perfected bonuses miss the mark entirely on why one should want to put in the extra effort required to obtain them.

Yep. Poorly conceived (useless stat boost) and managed (stiffing vets) from the start.

MashmalloMan · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

I am excited to run the arenas again. Though the overhaul is very underwhelming. 103 spell/weapon damage for a weapons that occupies 2 slots that could be filled with a full set, is a bit... weak? Could have at least been a normal set piece of 129 damage instead. In the case of maelstrom it is non-sensual anyway since most weapons there are mere backbar weapons that get nothing from this.

So refarming them is more of a prestige or min-maxer thing rather than something you actually notice on your recap.

I look at it a bit differently due to how potent 3 piece sets have become. Perfected ability altering weapons now go hand in hand with them for more stats than a 5 piece from a value perspective.

5 piece set =
3 stat bonuses (129 wpd, 1096 Stam, 833 Crit, etc)
1 set bonus

2 piece perfected ability altering weapon + 3 piece set =
4 stat bonuses (3.2 from something like agility + 0.8 on a perfected weapon)
1 set bonus

All in all, if we consider 2 piece ability altering weapon bonuses are at the same power budget as a 5 piece set bonus, this combination actually ends up with higher stats. The set bonus is subjective, but the stat bonuses are not, they're simply stronger in a 2+3 combo.

Even in a scenario where let's say you lose 2/5 on your 5 piece set when you switch to back bar... In this scenario, the set only provides 2 stat bonuses on back bar, no access to the set bonus. If you then switched that 5 piece set for 3+2, your 3 piece set is active 24/7 for 3.2 stat bonuses on front and back bar, while still losing access to the set bonus.

It's a matter of perspective. The small stat bonus makes this set combination VERY viable in my opinion. It may seem like a little, but it's the difference between 3.2 against 3 and 4 against 3, along with the above positive I mentioned.

The one thing a 3+2 combination can't do that 5 pieces can is the huge bump in a stat bonus on the 5th piece (usually, things like Master Bow/Staff do this, but it's rare). Hundings and static sets like it are the baseline at about 2.32x , giving you a total of 5.32x a 1 piece stat bonus. Proc sets like fury can go as high as a 4.65x multiplier, giving it a huge stat bonus value of 7.65x which is what makes it such a strong set for burst.

If your like me, I like unique effects over stat bumps, so the 3+2 option has become very enticing for my PvP builds lately, especially now that I can juice out some more stats from perfected weapons.

Agreed on them not updating our existing weapons though... Very shady business practice.

Derra · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Though the overhaul is very underwhelming. 103 spell/weapon damage for a weapons that occupies 2 slots that could be filled with a full set, is a bit... weak? Could have at least been a normal set piece of 129 damage instead. In the case of maelstrom it is non-sensual anyway since most weapons there are mere backbar weapons that get nothing from this.

So refarming them is more of a prestige or min-maxer thing rather than something you actually notice on your recap.

I mean - if nothing changes in todays pts patch it´s almost 100% sure that the best arena weapon magica can slot will be blackrose dw.
So the 1p ist irrelevant either way. Which is nice - i guess?

Dracane · May 2020

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am excited to run the arenas again. Though the overhaul is very underwhelming. 103 spell/weapon damage for a weapons that occupies 2 slots that could be filled with a full set, is a bit... weak? Could have at least been a normal set piece of 129 damage instead. In the case of maelstrom it is non-sensual anyway since most weapons there are mere backbar weapons that get nothing from this.

So refarming them is more of a prestige or min-maxer thing rather than something you actually notice on your recap.

I look at it a bit differently due to how potent 3 piece sets have become. Perfected ability altering weapons now go hand in hand with them for more stats than a 5 piece from a value perspective.

5 piece set =
3 stat bonuses (129 wpd, 1096 Stam, 833 Crit, etc)
1 set bonus

2 piece perfected ability altering weapon + 3 piece set =
4 stat bonuses (3.2 from something like agility + 0.8 on a perfected weapon)
1 set bonus

All in all, if we consider 2 piece ability altering weapon bonuses are at the same power budget as a 5 piece set bonus, this combination actually ends up with higher stats. The set bonus is subjective, but the stat bonuses are not, they're simply stronger in a 2+3 combo.

Even in a scenario where let's say you lose 2/5 on your 5 piece set when you switch to back bar... In this scenario, the set only provides 2 stat bonuses on back bar, no access to the set bonus. If you then switched that 5 piece set for 3+2, your 3 piece set is active 24/7 for 3.2 stat bonuses on front and back bar, while still losing access to the set bonus.

It's a matter of perspective. The small stat bonus makes this set combination VERY viable in my opinion. It may seem like a little, but it's the difference between 3.2 against 3 and 4 against 3, along with the above positive I mentioned.

The one thing a 3+2 combination can't do that 5 pieces can is the huge bump in a stat bonus on the 5th piece (usually, things like Master Bow/Staff do this, but it's rare). Hundings and static sets like it are the baseline at about 2.32x , giving you a total of 5.32x a 1 piece stat bonus. Proc sets like fury can go as high as a 4.65x multiplier, giving it a huge stat bonus value of 7.65x which is what makes it such a strong set for burst.

If your like me, I like unique effects over stat bumps, so the 3+2 option has become very enticing for my PvP builds lately, especially now that I can juice out some more stats from perfected weapons.

Agreed on them not updating our existing weapons though... Very shady business practice.

Hm, you are correct. It can not nearly compete with things like Alfiq, which is, honestly, what I based my judgement on.

But when compared to sets that give something gimmicky on their 5th piece, it is equal indeed.

Still, I can not see myself using an arena weapon as a main bar. The stat loss would be too dramatic for me, my eyes in particular. I hope I can make the master staff work as a back bar weapon for burst moments.

Insightful nontheless. I thank you.

Tivnael · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Hm, you are correct. It can not nearly compete with things like Alfiq, which is, honestly, what I based my judgement on.
But when compared to sets that give something gimmicky on their 5th piece, it is equal indeed.

Still, I can not see myself using an arena weapon as a main bar. The stat loss would be too dramatic for me, my eyes in particular. I hope I can make the master staff work as a back bar weapon for burst moments.

Insightful nontheless. I thank you.

I tried over last weeks in PvP (live Servers) using Reach on Backbar, its okay. Depends a little on the rest of your backbar abilities, should be all with durations more than 10 secs (otherwise u loose stats being on backbar i guess). Good thing is, that casting reach is enough to get the bonus, if description is correct (dont have access to PTS ). so you can bar swap cancel it, no matter the enemy dodged it, you will still get the 600*1.2 spell dmg. Casting it every 5 sec or so is possible, because it will be dodged anyway sometimes , and most of the time there are at least 2 enemies in your LoS. In Cyrodiil at least

Moose_Scout · May 2020

lulose wrote: »

Hi all,

With Greymoor giving us the option to jump back into veteran Maelstrom Arena for "upgraded" weapons it just doesn't feel fair.

The arena is the same as it was when I ran it years ago.

While I find it easier these days (from levelling, power creep and practice) there is still that awkward lag, sometimes desyncing for a whole second, and terrible Item RNG that makes it an excercise in patience.

It is not fun or fair content in this state, why not add a simple token system or reduce its server load?

Thanks,
lulose

I am with you. I spent months of my life in those arenas and I do not want to go back to the same content.

As civil as you sound, ZOS will wait for one post to shutdown the whole thread. They are being stubborn.
I wish they would look at how companies like Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile) do patch notes. They give justifications, admit when they were wrong, try to reason, but mainly just communicate with their player base.

Dracane · May 2020

Tivnael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Hm, you are correct. It can not nearly compete with things like Alfiq, which is, honestly, what I based my judgement on.
But when compared to sets that give something gimmicky on their 5th piece, it is equal indeed.

Still, I can not see myself using an arena weapon as a main bar. The stat loss would be too dramatic for me, my eyes in particular. I hope I can make the master staff work as a back bar weapon for burst moments.

Insightful nontheless. I thank you.

I tried over last weeks in PvP (live Servers) using Reach on Backbar, its okay. Depends a little on the rest of your backbar abilities, should be all with durations more than 10 secs (otherwise u loose stats being on backbar i guess). Good thing is, that casting reach is enough to get the bonus, if description is correct (dont have access to PTS ). so you can bar swap cancel it, no matter the enemy dodged it, you will still get the 600*1.2 spell dmg. Casting it every 5 sec or so is possible, because it will be dodged anyway sometimes , and most of the time there are at least 2 enemies in your LoS. In Cyrodiil at least

This is my biggest issue with it. It activates when you push the button. When my reach hits, 2 seconds have already passe. That combined with the amount of animation you must endure even when barswapping, means you only have 2 or maximum 3ish seconds to profit from the bonus. It is a big bonus, but way too short.

Maybe a more modest 500 spell damage but for a good duration would have been more exciting.

Mettaricana · May 2020

Moose_Scout wrote: »

lulose wrote: »

Hi all,

With Greymoor giving us the option to jump back into veteran Maelstrom Arena for "upgraded" weapons it just doesn't feel fair.

The arena is the same as it was when I ran it years ago.

While I find it easier these days (from levelling, power creep and practice) there is still that awkward lag, sometimes desyncing for a whole second, and terrible Item RNG that makes it an excercise in patience.

It is not fun or fair content in this state, why not add a simple token system or reduce its server load?

Thanks,
lulose

I am with you. I spent months of my life in those arenas and I do not want to go back to the same content.

As civil as you sound, ZOS will wait for one post to shutdown the whole thread. They are being stubborn.
I wish they would look at how companies like Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile) do patch notes. They give justifications, admit when they were wrong, try to reason, but mainly just communicate with their player base.

Zos has been insane with shutting down anyone who disagrees this cycle like way more active than normal...