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I implore everyone who is DISSATISFIED with the vampire rework to..
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navystylz_ESO✭✭✭✭Spectral_Force wrote: »Heh, at least we can expect some further tweaks after the update drops. Probably not the best time to be tweaking things (you'd probably want everything to be balanced and ready before the update), but it's something.
Ya. I just don't see myself later on deciding to drop the money on the game. I was really, really, wary of doing it. ESO has been nothing but predictable when it comes to releasing content and chapters in this game and I was like "nope, they won't pleasantly surprise us." They let myself get pulled into prepurchase because the vamp changes looked so cool. Then they ruined that.1 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭navystylz_ESO wrote: »Spectral_Force wrote: »Heh, at least we can expect some further tweaks after the update drops. Probably not the best time to be tweaking things (you'd probably want everything to be balanced and ready before the update), but it's something.
Ya. I just don't see myself later on deciding to drop the money on the game. I was really, really, wary of doing it. ESO has been nothing but predictable when it comes to releasing content and chapters in this game and I was like "nope, they won't pleasantly surprise us." They let myself get pulled into prepurchase because the vamp changes looked so cool. Then they ruined that.
All they had to do was do the same exact thing they did with the NPCs for players.
It *isn't* that hard.
I don't know how these stupid dumb designers messed up that badly. IMAGINE having the answer to the question right in front of you and being like "but what if we did something different"10 -
Ulthlian✭✭✭Well, they said, that nothing gonna change until release and after it for some time. They need information about how vamps are performing on live. That's sad
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Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭navystylz_ESO wrote: »Spectral_Force wrote: »Heh, at least we can expect some further tweaks after the update drops. Probably not the best time to be tweaking things (you'd probably want everything to be balanced and ready before the update), but it's something.
Ya. I just don't see myself later on deciding to drop the money on the game. I was really, really, wary of doing it. ESO has been nothing but predictable when it comes to releasing content and chapters in this game and I was like "nope, they won't pleasantly surprise us." They let myself get pulled into prepurchase because the vamp changes looked so cool. Then they ruined that.
All they had to do was do the same exact thing they did with the NPCs for players.
It *isn't* that hard.
I don't know how these stupid dumb designers messed up that badly. IMAGINE having the answer to the question right in front of you and being like "but what if we did something different"
Their mods on the stream doesn't help with matters either. I watched several civil feedback questions go "Removed by moderator". They literally do not care. The question is, what do we do with what we're given? Do we just cure or do we just suck it up?
Edit: Also I'm sorry you wasted all of those points, dude. Thank you for trying.
Edited by Sephyr on May 15, 2020 8:56PM3 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭Everyone is waking up to the Vamp changes I see. I swear watching this unfold now is like watching the same horror film over and over again with different actors.Edited by Nagastani on May 15, 2020 9:58PM5
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saw you in the chat, Nox, thank you. It was quite apparent to me very early that ZOS have no intention of further changes.
They don't even get the problem. They are still consumed by their "cool ideas" with "cool animations" over actual gameplay consequences. And how anyone could look at the Blood Scion and consider that "cool"... Oh, boy.
And don't believe for one second they're "closely monitoring vampires on live". How, exactly, are they gonna do that? While they also owe an extremely fat and thorough class balancing? On top of their performance plans? It's not realistic. They're talking bull.7 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saw you in the chat, Nox, thank you. It was quite apparent to me very early that ZOS have no intention of further changes.
They don't even get the problem. They are still consumed by their "cool ideas" with "cool animations" over actual gameplay consequences. And how anyone could look at the Blood Scion and consider that "cool"... Oh, boy.
And don't believe for one second they're "closely monitoring vampires on live". How, exactly, are they gonna do that? While they also owe an extremely fat and thorough class balancing? On top of their performance plans? It's not realistic. They're talking bull.
Thanks man, yeah I was there for the whole thing trying to get answers. Kinda annoying they read only the questions very few were asking. Like about the mount, etc, stuff that should be common knowledge. Very annoying. Also they spent a lot of time showing the vampire-feeding on another player animation and Im sitting there like...."Who genuinely cares?"
Also don't get me wrong the animations are cool, but like, they....aren't that amazing for gameplay.
Also worst part is their ideas ARENT EVEN COOL.
Dude who the frick thought a toggable attack/spell buff was 'cool' and 'unique'? Whilst also designing even better looking things for the NPCs?
That's the real kicker here. They preached about how cool everything is, yet like, it really isn't.... Even in the vampire rework trailer it talks about blood frenzy being the pinnacle of what a vampire should be....while fighting a normie vampire NPC that summoned a cloud of bats at the player. Ah yes, truly. It was ironic to sya the lest.7 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Thanks man, yeah I was there for the whole thing trying to get answers. Kinda annoying they read only the questions very few were asking. Like about the mount, etc, stuff that should be common knowledge. Very annoying. Also they spent a lot of time showing the vampire-feeding on another player animation and Im sitting there like...."Who genuinely cares?"
Also don't get me wrong the animations are cool, but like, they....aren't that amazing for gameplay.
Also worst part is their ideas ARENT EVEN COOL.
Dude who the frick thought a toggable attack/spell buff was 'cool' and 'unique'? Whilst also designing even better looking things for the NPCs?
That's the real kicker here. They preached about how cool everything is, yet like, it really isn't.... Even in the vampire rework trailer it talks about blood frenzy being the pinnacle of what a vampire should be....while fighting a normie vampire NPC that summoned a cloud of bats at the player. Ah yes, truly. It was ironic to sya the lest.
I still remember hearing Gina saying "My health isn't regenerating..." and then the combat guy went on about "That's the price you pay." I don't know that whole exchange felt bad to be honest. Gina didn't even really heal herself to full despite knowing this fact and kept cruising around hurt. I don't know but I got a hunch this new rework is going to hurt the new and inexperienced players who pick up vampire. Imagine the outcry when they get to stage 4 and can't find a way to "turn it off" because they don't have purifying bloody maras....PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK8 -
Spectral_Force✭✭✭
And that's another thing, isn't it? Unless you have a Mara (or buy the fountain in the Crown Store) you have to sit around for 4 hours waiting for it to wear off. And you can't just log off and do something else for 4 hours either, because the cooldown pauses when logged off.Imagine the outcry when they get to stage 4 and can't find a way to "turn it off" because they don't have purifying bloody maras....I've unearthed the Legendary Antiquity of Mêlée Island and all I got was this stupid T-shirt!6 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Imagine the outcry when they get to stage 4 and can't find a way to "turn it off" because they don't have purifying bloody maras....
That's actually something that's been nagging a little bit at the back of my mind for a while now. If you don't have that drink, you're kind of stuck just waiting around for your stage to decrease. There is no other quick way to lower your stage of vampirism, whereas before you could feed to do it and if you wanted to raise it quickly you could spam mist form.
Although it does mean that the market for those drinks just became wide open, and the recipe for them has been around for quite a while so there should be plenty of supply."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Spectral_Force wrote: »
And that's another thing, isn't it? Unless you have a Mara (or buy the fountain in the Crown Store) you have to sit around for 4 hours waiting for it to wear off. And you can't just log off and do something else for 4 hours either, because the cooldown pauses when logged off.Imagine the outcry when they get to stage 4 and can't find a way to "turn it off" because they don't have purifying bloody maras....
Daaaannnggg.... I didn't even know that lol. The forums is going to implode when this goes live. Talk about a cash grab.7 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They can closely monitor how I purge my vampirism when this has gone live.
Just like probably hundrets will.
I can not see many serious players keeping vampirism.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
ZOS_LunaradminGreetings! We've removed some posts from this thread for violating our rules on bashing.
We always encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are respectfully stated when doing so. Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.PC/EU5 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Ummmm..... You did have a choice. None of my characters are vamps and I complete vet content with NO issues. If you needed vamp to be competitive, that is a L2P issue.7 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭StamPlar_1976 wrote: »BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Ummmm..... You did have a choice. None of my characters are vamps and I complete vet content with NO issues. If you needed vamp to be competitive, that is a L2P issue.
Glad you did not need Vamp however the traditional Vamp skill line had nice, simple buffs with a couple useful skills and no real downside except from extra Fire Dmg, which bothered me at first until I adapted to it.
Supernatural Recovery and Undeath in particular were of great value to Healers which enabled them to be even more competitive, let alone a discussion about how it helped Stamblades.
I agree with others though that maybe Vamp was over the top and ppl were becoming Vamps but not because they cared anything about Vampirism. However this was in the past a great skill line which enabled players to actually have a better chance at 'competing' then they normally would.
If you failed to take advantage of this opportunity then it can't be a L2P issue because those of us who were Vamps learned why we needed those skills, Vampirism not withstanding... so it kinda seems we knew how to play the game better than maybe other people who did not understand this.Edited by Nagastani on May 16, 2020 6:53PM0 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭Greymoor, more specifically, my long wait has been whether my magBlade, my original character since beta, will stay shelved because their still *** without any reach around by ZOS.
I have hoped the vampire changes may offer some potential for the class; but I won't hold my breath. I will stop playing, and spend my money elsewhere.
I placed my feedback on the forums here. If the twitch crew doesn't bother addressing some of those points; than tuning it doesn't make a difference.0 -
Glacku808✭✭✭I think its safe to say that despite our pleas, these Vamp changes and the awful Scion are going live. Sad because the Devs themselves keep saying Greymoor is the time for a rework of the Vamp, yet something stills feels like a missed oppertunity. I'd rather them take their time and really flesh out the experience but at the end of the day they are just a business with a financial deadline
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nk125x✭✭✭✭✭Thing is the Vamp is part of the base game, not Greymoor, you cant escape it.
Looking at Greymoor the only thing you are getting for your £s or $s is a new zone (Beautiful but feels like S Elwere DLC) and the most boring biggest grind ever in the Antiquities system. Really doesn't compare to the other chapters....2 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭I think its safe to say that despite our pleas, these Vamp changes and the awful Scion are going live. Sad because the Devs themselves keep saying Greymoor is the time for a rework of the Vamp, yet something stills feels like a missed oppertunity. I'd rather them take their time and really flesh out the experience but at the end of the day they are just a business with a financial deadline
Yes it's something we cannot change however, in fairness I can tell due to the patch revisions the Devs seem to have listened to some things. In either case, this will be something that will be a long drawn out process to flush out the problems in the new Vamp system.
My only advice, is until real change begins, try and consider this to be an opportunity, as there is some good in this new version of Vampire. Not withstanding, there are issues as well and I hope eventually we can get Vampirism fixed.0 -
Skykaiser_Ọlọrun✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration.
Taking something for convenience is not the same as, "not having a choice".
Like the Undaunted Mettle passive is a nice bonus, but your game isn't going to explode if you don't have it. Claiming that you were somehow forced into being a vampire before these changes is ridiculous.6 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Yeah it was never a necessity to be a Vampire per say although I think I know what you mean. It sounds like majority of the community took Vampire for the benefits which was not a bad move however you never had to be a Vampire per say. WW has been steadily gaining in popularity anyways ever since their issues were mostly fixed.
There are some new Vamp abilities that I feel are must haves, especially for PvP Stamblade. However there will also be a notable difference going forward on why players choose Vamp and especially how it is used. I think one of the issues with Vamp -overall- is players just taking Vamp for the skill sake and nevermind what it's actually about. That's why all the pain now however we will get thru it eventually.Edited by Nagastani on May 16, 2020 8:46PM0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Yeah it was never a necessity to be a Vampire per say although I think I know what you mean. It sounds like majority of the community took Vampire for the benefits which was not a bad move however you never had to be a Vampire per say. WW has been steadily gaining in popularity anyways ever since their issues were mostly fixed.
There are some new Vamp abilities that I feel are must haves, especially for PvP Stamblade. However there will also be a notable difference going forward on why players choose Vamp and especially how it is used. I think one of the issues with Vamp -overall- is players just taking Vamp for the skill sake and nevermind what it's actually about. That's why all the pain now however we will get thru it eventually.
The issue I think runs deeper than that though. While most took the line for just the passives, you have people like myself who just took the line for simply the ability to spread the bite for free. The thing is, though, why I don't like it? Is because it's not really all that visceral or intuitive. Here's why;
I don't like the feeding mechanic. Not because I don't want to do it, on the contrary. I want to have my character rip out the necks of people in Cyrodiil randomly. The fact is, I'm yet again being punished for doing so with the -100% health regeneration that should be on a Stage 1. There's no real incentive to feed even with the vampire cost reduction because those abilities are STILL cheap. Does Frenzy/Fury hurt less the further advanced in stage you are? Sure. But at Stage 4, you're healing yourself more than the healer at that point if you have any kind of pressure put on your character.
So yes, while the majority are probably upset that their resources have been cut--the truth is, most of us wanting to actually PLAY a vampire have built around that for years. The line's a step in the right direction, but has completely fell short of any reasonable expectation of what a proper universal vampire feeding and skill system should feel like.6 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Yeah it was never a necessity to be a Vampire per say although I think I know what you mean. It sounds like majority of the community took Vampire for the benefits which was not a bad move however you never had to be a Vampire per say. WW has been steadily gaining in popularity anyways ever since their issues were mostly fixed.
There are some new Vamp abilities that I feel are must haves, especially for PvP Stamblade. However there will also be a notable difference going forward on why players choose Vamp and especially how it is used. I think one of the issues with Vamp -overall- is players just taking Vamp for the skill sake and nevermind what it's actually about. That's why all the pain now however we will get thru it eventually.
The issue I think runs deeper than that though. While most took the line for just the passives, you have people like myself who just took the line for simply the ability to spread the bite for free. The thing is, though, why I don't like it? Is because it's not really all that visceral or intuitive. Here's why;
I don't like the feeding mechanic. Not because I don't want to do it, on the contrary. I want to have my character rip out the necks of people in Cyrodiil randomly. The fact is, I'm yet again being punished for doing so with the -100% health regeneration that should be on a Stage 1. There's no real incentive to feed even with the vampire cost reduction because those abilities are STILL cheap. Does Frenzy/Fury hurt less the further advanced in stage you are? Sure. But at Stage 4, you're healing yourself more than the healer at that point if you have any kind of pressure put on your character.
So yes, while the majority are probably upset that their resources have been cut--the truth is, most of us wanting to actually PLAY a vampire have built around that for years. The line's a step in the right direction, but has completely fell short of any reasonable expectation of what a proper universal vampire feeding and skill system should feel like.
No one is saying Supernatural Recovery should be removed. In fact, I've argued against making any Vampire changes, from the very beginning. However, seeing how this is coming down on us now anyways, we have gained some ground in getting them to reduce the cost increase. I personally agree that Supernatural Recovery should remain, especially along with the added constraints that apparently are here to stay.
There's no reason we can't all win from this however getting it right could take months or perhaps years even. If you happen to know what WW Players went thru to get everything working almost right for them then that situation could apply here also.0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Yeah it was never a necessity to be a Vampire per say although I think I know what you mean. It sounds like majority of the community took Vampire for the benefits which was not a bad move however you never had to be a Vampire per say. WW has been steadily gaining in popularity anyways ever since their issues were mostly fixed.
There are some new Vamp abilities that I feel are must haves, especially for PvP Stamblade. However there will also be a notable difference going forward on why players choose Vamp and especially how it is used. I think one of the issues with Vamp -overall- is players just taking Vamp for the skill sake and nevermind what it's actually about. That's why all the pain now however we will get thru it eventually.
The issue I think runs deeper than that though. While most took the line for just the passives, you have people like myself who just took the line for simply the ability to spread the bite for free. The thing is, though, why I don't like it? Is because it's not really all that visceral or intuitive. Here's why;
I don't like the feeding mechanic. Not because I don't want to do it, on the contrary. I want to have my character rip out the necks of people in Cyrodiil randomly. The fact is, I'm yet again being punished for doing so with the -100% health regeneration that should be on a Stage 1. There's no real incentive to feed even with the vampire cost reduction because those abilities are STILL cheap. Does Frenzy/Fury hurt less the further advanced in stage you are? Sure. But at Stage 4, you're healing yourself more than the healer at that point if you have any kind of pressure put on your character.
So yes, while the majority are probably upset that their resources have been cut--the truth is, most of us wanting to actually PLAY a vampire have built around that for years. The line's a step in the right direction, but has completely fell short of any reasonable expectation of what a proper universal vampire feeding and skill system should feel like.
No one is saying Supernatural Recovery should be removed.
That's not so much the point of my post though.0 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Yeah it was never a necessity to be a Vampire per say although I think I know what you mean. It sounds like majority of the community took Vampire for the benefits which was not a bad move however you never had to be a Vampire per say. WW has been steadily gaining in popularity anyways ever since their issues were mostly fixed.
There are some new Vamp abilities that I feel are must haves, especially for PvP Stamblade. However there will also be a notable difference going forward on why players choose Vamp and especially how it is used. I think one of the issues with Vamp -overall- is players just taking Vamp for the skill sake and nevermind what it's actually about. That's why all the pain now however we will get thru it eventually.
The issue I think runs deeper than that though. While most took the line for just the passives, you have people like myself who just took the line for simply the ability to spread the bite for free. The thing is, though, why I don't like it? Is because it's not really all that visceral or intuitive. Here's why;
I don't like the feeding mechanic. Not because I don't want to do it, on the contrary. I want to have my character rip out the necks of people in Cyrodiil randomly. The fact is, I'm yet again being punished for doing so with the -100% health regeneration that should be on a Stage 1. There's no real incentive to feed even with the vampire cost reduction because those abilities are STILL cheap. Does Frenzy/Fury hurt less the further advanced in stage you are? Sure. But at Stage 4, you're healing yourself more than the healer at that point if you have any kind of pressure put on your character.
So yes, while the majority are probably upset that their resources have been cut--the truth is, most of us wanting to actually PLAY a vampire have built around that for years. The line's a step in the right direction, but has completely fell short of any reasonable expectation of what a proper universal vampire feeding and skill system should feel like.
No one is saying Supernatural Recovery should be removed.
That's not so much the point of my post though.
Ok but it is the point in a way because everything is centered around Supernatural Recovery and Undeath. The people who want the skill/passives to support their rotations don't want this changed, the people who play Vamp for being a Vamp don't want this to go away or be significantly altered because it's their thing.
All I'm saying is we should be able to keep the best parts of Vamp now that there are constraints for being a Vampire. Your post discussed people being upset over resources being cut vs people who play a Vampire building around the same. So I'm saying don't remove it. Just add the constraints, make a few changes and leave Vampire with just a few changes. I think they are moving too fast and to ambitious on the current changes. I have no issues with your post however that is what I'm saying.
Edited by Nagastani on May 16, 2020 10:32PM0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Honestly, I do not fully understand the community’s discontent over the vampire’s changes. I understand that many do not like the increase in resource costs for non-vampire abilities. But people should have the choice of being NOT VAMPIRE. Prior to this, people had no such choice and many took vampirism for the sake of 10% regeneration. Fortunately, now, it’s not necessary to be a vampire. HOWEVER! This is still a must-have for pvp-nb.
Yeah it was never a necessity to be a Vampire per say although I think I know what you mean. It sounds like majority of the community took Vampire for the benefits which was not a bad move however you never had to be a Vampire per say. WW has been steadily gaining in popularity anyways ever since their issues were mostly fixed.
There are some new Vamp abilities that I feel are must haves, especially for PvP Stamblade. However there will also be a notable difference going forward on why players choose Vamp and especially how it is used. I think one of the issues with Vamp -overall- is players just taking Vamp for the skill sake and nevermind what it's actually about. That's why all the pain now however we will get thru it eventually.
The issue I think runs deeper than that though. While most took the line for just the passives, you have people like myself who just took the line for simply the ability to spread the bite for free. The thing is, though, why I don't like it? Is because it's not really all that visceral or intuitive. Here's why;
I don't like the feeding mechanic. Not because I don't want to do it, on the contrary. I want to have my character rip out the necks of people in Cyrodiil randomly. The fact is, I'm yet again being punished for doing so with the -100% health regeneration that should be on a Stage 1. There's no real incentive to feed even with the vampire cost reduction because those abilities are STILL cheap. Does Frenzy/Fury hurt less the further advanced in stage you are? Sure. But at Stage 4, you're healing yourself more than the healer at that point if you have any kind of pressure put on your character.
So yes, while the majority are probably upset that their resources have been cut--the truth is, most of us wanting to actually PLAY a vampire have built around that for years. The line's a step in the right direction, but has completely fell short of any reasonable expectation of what a proper universal vampire feeding and skill system should feel like.
No one is saying Supernatural Recovery should be removed.
That's not so much the point of my post though.
Ok but it is the point in a way because everything is centered around Supernatural Recovery and Undeath. The people who want the skill/passives to support their rotations don't want this changed, the people who play Vamp for being a Vamp don't want this to go away or be significantly altered because it's their thing.
All I'm saying is we should be able to keep the best parts of Vamp now that there are constraints for being a Vampire. Your post discussed people being upset over resources being cut vs people who play a Vampire building around the same. So I'm saying don't remove it. Just add the constraints, make a few changes and leave Vampire with just a few changes. I think they are moving too fast and to ambitious on the current changes. I have no issues with your post however that is what I'm saying.
Yeah, again--not the point dude. It's okay though. I don't care.0
