Paywall

DaveMoeDee · May 2020

The problem with OP is saying the word 'paywall' and thinking that is an argument. Complaining about video games too often devolves to people using derogatory labels like paywall, p2w, and greedy. I suppose if most people can't have nuanced discussions about politics, we should expect any better in more trivial matters.

DaveMoeDee · May 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

[snip]

Businesses in the entertainment sector exist primarily to make themselves rich, so they can buy nice, fast Ferraris or Lamborghinis.

Yes. Most of the money you spend on a video game will probably be going towards a sports car and a big house, not the game.

Like every other business in the Western World.

[Minor Edit for Baiting]

Businesses don't drive. People do.

Maybe ZOS the company will get a self driving car at some point.

deleted221106-002999 · May 2020

n0tthesun wrote: »

So I have a question then... what is ZOS supposed to do? Release new content with only crappy gear offered? Never make gear that's better than what's in the base game? Just never release new content?

This is ridiculous.

Personally, I'd prefer if they actually fixed the existing, long-standing issues with pretty much every aspect of the game. What I find ridiculous is that they don't.

Regarding the commercial aspects: they have subscriptions and crown store.

I'd considered buying Greymoor: no thanks, maybe later when it's discounted. Maybe.

Anyway, even if the new gear is arguably going to be super-fantastic-must-have skills don't work reliably and the game is largely unplayable unless you're focused on overland quests (which is ok if you are, so please don't take that observation as a slur to overland questers).

And, yes, it would be nice if they chose to recognise the current lockdown and threw their customers a bone - after all we're asked in their support pages to understand their issues while anyone trying to get any kind of response from customer support has a LONG wait ahead of them just now.

Even if it was like the Summerset psijic villa sight-seeing tour per server - anything/something would be appreciated. But I suspect if you want to see a vision of the future imagine a corporate boot soft slipper stamping gently tapping on players' faces forever.*

*

redacted for newspeak by Minitruth

DaveMoeDee · May 2020

Moose_Scout wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

Further, Necromancer (and Warden) is the best pvp AND pve class. Another paywall. Nightblades are the worst while some Dk and some sorc builds are struggling... but they are "base game" classes so maybe that is on purpose.

There should be stuff behind paywalls. The base game is regularly on sale for like $8. Part of the reason is for there to be a low barrier to entry. After people have tried the game for $8, they can spend to get that other content.

There is no problem here. It isn't like power is scaling based on spending more beyond gaining access to DLC. And new players typically have old chapters included in the version they buy.

Universe · May 2020

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Moose_Scout wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

Further, Necromancer (and Warden) is the best pvp AND pve class. Another paywall. Nightblades are the worst while some Dk and some sorc builds are struggling... but they are "base game" classes so maybe that is on purpose.

There should be stuff behind paywalls. The base game is regularly on sale for like $8. Part of the reason is for there to be a low barrier to entry. After people have tried the game for $8, they can spend to get that other content.

There is no problem here. It isn't like power is scaling based on spending more beyond gaining access to DLC. And new players typically have old chapters included in the version they buy.

Hopefully, the game won't go F2P.
If it will go F2P, everything will go downhill... less development & fixes, P2W features...It's a slippery slope.

Lotus781 · May 2020

Ive seen some stuff on the internet about the new mythic items and they look meh.They give you something in one hand but then take it away in the other hand .Your really not missing anything.

ArcVelarian · May 2020

It IS aggravating that Necromancers and Wardens aren't just included with ESO Plus.

Noxavian · May 2020

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

You are aware almost every MMO ever locks major new content behind a paywall right? And you ARE aware that ESO is the best MMO out there when it comes to not powercreeping items, right? And you're ALSO aware that this is a game and the devs need to make money, right? Be thankful you aren't playing WoW where every item you get becomes useless next expansion. Or FFXIV.

Mancombe_Nosehair · May 2020

ArcVelarian wrote: »

It IS aggravating that Necromancers and Wardens aren't just included with ESO Plus.

The problem with that is if you cancel plus, then you still have the characters. You don't keep the dlc's when you cancel.

Universe · May 2020

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

ArcVelarian wrote: »

It IS aggravating that Necromancers and Wardens aren't just included with ESO Plus.

The problem with that is if you cancel plus, then you still have the characters. You don't keep the dlc's when you cancel.

They could have made it so that while your ESO Plus is active you can create Warden/Necromancer but once your subscription lapses, the characters you have created can still be accessed but you can't make new Warden/Necromancer characters until you renew the subscription or buy them separately in the crown store.

OtarTheMad · May 2020

Universe wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

ArcVelarian wrote: »

It IS aggravating that Necromancers and Wardens aren't just included with ESO Plus.

The problem with that is if you cancel plus, then you still have the characters. You don't keep the dlc's when you cancel.

They could have made it so that while your ESO Plus is active you can create Warden/Necromancer but once your subscription lapses, the characters you have created can still be accessed but you can't make new Warden/Necromancer characters until you renew the subscription or buy them separately in the crown store.

That is a slippery slope. The players who right now think Necro and Warden are p2w and Overpowered etc will just revolt and be saying "So ZOS is now forcing us to be ESO+ member for these classes! Greedy!" Some will always find a way.

I personally don't think it's a bad idea but also keep in kind that if you bought Greymoor you got Necro, Psijic and Warden thrown in. (Digital standard edition- 60 bucks). That's what ZOS does and it's a good idea. You spend 60 bucks, which is what the digital standard edition costs usually, you get all past chapter stuff for "free".

Sephyr · May 2020

Noxavian wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

You are aware almost every MMO ever locks major new content behind a paywall right? And you ARE aware that ESO is the best MMO out there when it comes to not powercreeping items, right? And you're ALSO aware that this is a game and the devs need to make money, right? Be thankful you aren't playing WoW where every item you get becomes useless next expansion. Or FFXIV.

Bolded for emphasized truth. If we wanted to go the "OH MY GOD PAYWALL", where was the outcry when Orsinium came out with the vMA weapons that are pretty much staple in any endgame build? I'm super thankful that every expansion most of my builds are fine and performing. Mythics haven't affected me in any gamemode. What did? Those super strong vampire repercussions. If anything, the first three weeks of the PTS I felt like I was paying to lose.

starkerealm · May 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

You are aware almost every MMO ever locks major new content behind a paywall right? And you ARE aware that ESO is the best MMO out there when it comes to not powercreeping items, right? And you're ALSO aware that this is a game and the devs need to make money, right? Be thankful you aren't playing WoW where every item you get becomes useless next expansion. Or FFXIV.

Bolded for emphasized truth. If we wanted to go the "OH MY GOD PAYWALL", where was the outcry when Orsinium came out with the vMA weapons that are pretty much staple in any endgame build? I'm super thankful that every expansion most of my builds are fine and performing. Mythics haven't affected me in any gamemode. What did? Those super strong vampire repercussions. If anything, the first three weeks of the PTS I felt like I was paying to lose.

I remember that screaming with the Warden, Necromancer, and Jewelry crafting. I think the only reason it didn't come up with Orsinium (as much) was because that was bundled into ESO+.

EDIT: Oh, and Orsinium was the first release that didn't invalidate gear from the previous release. Up until that point, every release had raised the level cap, so that might be relevant.

Sephyr · May 2020

starkerealm wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

You are aware almost every MMO ever locks major new content behind a paywall right? And you ARE aware that ESO is the best MMO out there when it comes to not powercreeping items, right? And you're ALSO aware that this is a game and the devs need to make money, right? Be thankful you aren't playing WoW where every item you get becomes useless next expansion. Or FFXIV.

Bolded for emphasized truth. If we wanted to go the "OH MY GOD PAYWALL", where was the outcry when Orsinium came out with the vMA weapons that are pretty much staple in any endgame build? I'm super thankful that every expansion most of my builds are fine and performing. Mythics haven't affected me in any gamemode. What did? Those super strong vampire repercussions. If anything, the first three weeks of the PTS I felt like I was paying to lose.

I remember that screaming with the Warden, Necromancer, and Jewelry crafting. I think the only reason it didn't come up with Orsinium (as much) was because that was bundled into ESO+.

EDIT: Oh, and Orsinium was the first release that didn't invalidate gear from the previous release. Up until that point, every release had raised the level cap, so that might be relevant.

Yeah, but that's the idea--they still had to pay for access to Orisinium. If we're going by the OP's definition of paywalling, those weapons are much more BiS-centered than the Mythics. I remember when Imperial City came out and there was some backlash about the endgame materials being hidden behind a 'paywall', but most of us sucked it up. We either bought the DLC or bought the materials from guild stores. There was more outrage over the fact that VR16 gear required 100+ units of a material just to craft the item compared to that though.

As far as invalidation of gear, like I said--my stuff hasn't been invalidated very often since Imperial City. That one was due to levels being upped. The rest has been nerfs here and there to specific sets that I've adapted my builds to over the years. Mythics aren't going to be the end all be all.

ZOS_RogerJ · May 2020

Be sure when posting to keep the forums a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

akdave0 · May 2020

I honestly cant see using them in any way. If you do, have to give up set bonuses somewhere.

Jayman1000 · May 2020

Why cant you afford to get them? Im not sure I understand what you. What/how much do you need to pay to get the stuff you want?

Loves_guars · May 2020

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

I'm picking the expansion just for the nostalgy with Skyrim, but I don't expect anything off the charts like the trilogy Morrowind>ClockworkCity>Summerset was. It will probably be a Elsweyr 2.0

Those were the days ;_;
I'll wait for sale for Greymoor. Not worth the money at least here where I live.

starkerealm · May 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

You are aware almost every MMO ever locks major new content behind a paywall right? And you ARE aware that ESO is the best MMO out there when it comes to not powercreeping items, right? And you're ALSO aware that this is a game and the devs need to make money, right? Be thankful you aren't playing WoW where every item you get becomes useless next expansion. Or FFXIV.

Bolded for emphasized truth. If we wanted to go the "OH MY GOD PAYWALL", where was the outcry when Orsinium came out with the vMA weapons that are pretty much staple in any endgame build? I'm super thankful that every expansion most of my builds are fine and performing. Mythics haven't affected me in any gamemode. What did? Those super strong vampire repercussions. If anything, the first three weeks of the PTS I felt like I was paying to lose.

I remember that screaming with the Warden, Necromancer, and Jewelry crafting. I think the only reason it didn't come up with Orsinium (as much) was because that was bundled into ESO+.

EDIT: Oh, and Orsinium was the first release that didn't invalidate gear from the previous release. Up until that point, every release had raised the level cap, so that might be relevant.

Yeah, but that's the idea--they still had to pay for access to Orisinium. If we're going by the OP's definition of paywalling, those weapons are much more BiS-centered than the Mythics. I remember when Imperial City came out and there was some backlash about the endgame materials being hidden behind a 'paywall', but most of us sucked it up. We either bought the DLC or bought the materials from guild stores. There was more outrage over the fact that VR16 gear required 100+ units of a material just to craft the item compared to that though.

As far as invalidation of gear, like I said--my stuff hasn't been invalidated very often since Imperial City. That one was due to levels being upped. The rest has been nerfs here and there to specific sets that I've adapted my builds to over the years. Mythics aren't going to be the end all be all.

I'd actually forgotten about the whining with the introduction of Tier 10 mats. I was irked because it was PvP gated, and this was back when most of what you got at V16 would still be V15, because "Gear Chase." But, yeah.

I do think we see more complaints about paywalling now off of chapters, rather than DLCs. I'm guessing, but probably because if you're playing, you're probably maintaining an ESO+ subscription. But, end of the day, unless one got the game for free, the entire game is behind a paywall to begin with.

starkerealm · May 2020

akdave0 wrote: »

I honestly cant see using them in any way. If you do, have to give up set bonuses somewhere.

Wild Hunt's good for farming. The gloves are ridiculous for dummy parses, so we're going to see some grossly inflated parse data now, mostly the dedicated floor tank crowd.

Beyond that? I'm inclined to agree. They're interesting, but I can't see one where I'm thinking, "yeah, I really want that for my build."

DaveMoeDee · May 2020

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

ArcVelarian wrote: »

It IS aggravating that Necromancers and Wardens aren't just included with ESO Plus.

The problem with that is if you cancel plus, then you still have the characters. You don't keep the dlc's when you cancel.

I still have an imperial on a second account from a bad Imperial edition code I got back in the day. My access was cancelled, but when I eventually returned after getting a valid key, the account was still upgraded to Imp. edition and the Imp was still there.

I do kinda wish the other classes eventually were moved into base game. I don't know how long after release, but eventually. But I don't play MMOs so I don't know how common that model is.

DaveMoeDee · May 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

You are aware almost every MMO ever locks major new content behind a paywall right? And you ARE aware that ESO is the best MMO out there when it comes to not powercreeping items, right? And you're ALSO aware that this is a game and the devs need to make money, right? Be thankful you aren't playing WoW where every item you get becomes useless next expansion. Or FFXIV.

Bolded for emphasized truth. If we wanted to go the "OH MY GOD PAYWALL", where was the outcry when Orsinium came out with the vMA weapons that are pretty much staple in any endgame build? I'm super thankful that every expansion most of my builds are fine and performing. Mythics haven't affected me in any gamemode. What did? Those super strong vampire repercussions. If anything, the first three weeks of the PTS I felt like I was paying to lose.

I guess when Orsinium dropped, most players were former sub players who are fine paying to play.