Paywall

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the main point of this post is valid.
In order to fully experience the new chapter players will either have to
1) be a sub
or
2) purchase additional DLC content.

This is the first chapter which has enforced this and it feels a little greedy considering players are already paying for the additional chapter.

That's not true. Elsweyr was structured the same way.
"Dark Heart of Skyrim" (Western Skyrim setting with Greymoor chapter) is following the same year-long "model; " the same structure and release pattern established with last year's "Season of the Dragon" Elsweyr content.

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging. Additionally I pointed out exactly what makes it different this time around. - requiring a sub or purchase of additional dlc such as wrothgar to access the full content provided with said "digging"

Psijic guild, warden and necro didn't require such dlc purchase they came complete with the chapter.

starkerealm

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the main point of this post is valid.
In order to fully experience the new chapter players will either have to
1) be a sub
or
2) purchase additional DLC content.

This is the first chapter which has enforced this and it feels a little greedy considering players are already paying for the additional chapter.

That's not true. Elsweyr was structured the same way.
"Dark Heart of Skyrim" (Western Skyrim setting with Greymoor chapter) is following the same year-long "model; " the same structure and release pattern established with last year's "Season of the Dragon" Elsweyr content.

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging. Additionally I pointed out exactly what makes it different this time around. - requiring a sub or purchase of additional dlc such as wrothgar to access the full content provided with said "digging"

Psijic guild, warden and necro didn't require such dlc purchase they came complete with the chapter.

That's the detail I didn't see.

I mean, there's an extreme, and somewhat distorted, comparison with Summerset. In order to access jewelry sets in DLC zones, you either needed those zones or you needed someone in those zones who had Summerset to do the crafting for you.

However, while you're not wrong, you're also, not exactly, right. The new excavation system has been added game wide. So, the only thing you're missing out on are the digs in specific DLC or chapter locations. A that point, the question is whether there's anything worth getting in those zones. If your answer is, "the mythics," they are paywalled, but they're not P2W. They're all either very situational or very niche.

Moose_Scout

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

Hello. Ive been playing ESO since closed BETA. I have always purchased every chapter and have been an eso plus subscriber since eso plus came out. I think it is DISGUSTING that you are implementing a PAYWALL to be able to stay viable in this game. There is a worldwide pandemic going on, major companies across the world are offering discounts, deferred payments, and refunds to help people. Whereas here is ZOS, implementing new ways to make us pay them money to keep playing!

The new mythic sets/jewelry are obviously BIS but people who don't have the extra income or savings right now can't even afford to get them!!!! There wont be a way to compete without shelling out more money to your company!!! I think you guys should consider doing something to HELP people instead of thinking of ways to get more money from everyone who is already struggling and stuck at home.

Sara

Further, Necromancer (and Warden) is the best pvp AND pve class. Another paywall. Nightblades are the worst while some Dk and some sorc builds are struggling... but they are "base game" classes so maybe that is on purpose.

Moose_Scout

D0PAMINE wrote: »

The Mythic items haven't even dropped on live yet. Things can still change during the PTS phase, and players are still doing extensive testing on the pros and cons of using them.

There has been very limited Dev-Player interaction this PTS cycle. Look at all the unanswered posts in the PTS forums. Something feels very different this time.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the main point of this post is valid.
In order to fully experience the new chapter players will either have to
1) be a sub
or
2) purchase additional DLC content.

This is the first chapter which has enforced this and it feels a little greedy considering players are already paying for the additional chapter.

That's not true. Elsweyr was structured the same way.
"Dark Heart of Skyrim" (Western Skyrim setting with Greymoor chapter) is following the same year-long "model; " the same structure and release pattern established with last year's "Season of the Dragon" Elsweyr content.

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging. Additionally I pointed out exactly what makes it different this time around. - requiring a sub or purchase of additional dlc such as wrothgar to access the full content provided with said "digging"

Psijic guild, warden and necro didn't require such dlc purchase they came complete with the chapter.

That's the detail I didn't see.

I mean, there's an extreme, and somewhat distorted, comparison with Summerset. In order to access jewelry sets in DLC zones, you either needed those zones or you needed someone in those zones who had Summerset to do the crafting for you.

However, while you're not wrong, you're also, not exactly, right. The new excavation system has been added game wide. So, the only thing you're missing out on are the digs in specific DLC or chapter locations. A that point, the question is whether there's anything worth getting in those zones. If your answer is, "the mythics," they are paywalled, but they're not P2W. They're all either very situational or very niche.

@starkerealm - Crafting set access has always been tied to DLC additionally players can access sets found in DLC zones via the Housing system - a base game feature.

Digging is account bound and certain mythic items and digs require DLC zones to be completed. I would argue the system is very different.

It is the reason I mention that as a game system it would have been better to add it as a base feature and then locate a number of the items within DHoS as rewards of that chapter / DLC.

I also feel my point previously about chapter content also stands and is worth consideration in combination with this.

Rave the Histborn

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the main point of this post is valid.
In order to fully experience the new chapter players will either have to
1) be a sub
or
2) purchase additional DLC content.

This is the first chapter which has enforced this and it feels a little greedy considering players are already paying for the additional chapter.

That's not true. Elsweyr was structured the same way.
"Dark Heart of Skyrim" (Western Skyrim setting with Greymoor chapter) is following the same year-long "model; " the same structure and release pattern established with last year's "Season of the Dragon" Elsweyr content.

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging. Additionally I pointed out exactly what makes it different this time around. - requiring a sub or purchase of additional dlc such as wrothgar to access the full content provided with said "digging"

Psijic guild, warden and necro didn't require such dlc purchase they came complete with the chapter.

I did address it

I said if you were getting Greymoor day 1 and you were shelling out $50 then you most likely have a sub or all the dlcs you need already so it's a non issue. [snip] that a tiny potion of the game is "less" accessible but they're completely change maelstrom, master, and monster sets for free and and DLCs you might need you can buy for gold. The mythic gear that you're talking about is made specifically for endgame vet level players and they're not going to be as against a sub or buying dlc.

[edited for baiting phrase]

Rave the Histborn

Moose_Scout wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

The Mythic items haven't even dropped on live yet. Things can still change during the PTS phase, and players are still doing extensive testing on the pros and cons of using them.

There has been very limited Dev-Player interaction this PTS cycle. Look at all the unanswered posts in the PTS forums. Something feels very different this time.

It's almost as if something was affecting the world atm

starkerealm

Moose_Scout wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

The Mythic items haven't even dropped on live yet. Things can still change during the PTS phase, and players are still doing extensive testing on the pros and cons of using them.

There has been very limited Dev-Player interaction this PTS cycle. Look at all the unanswered posts in the PTS forums. Something feels very different this time.

We're in the midst of a global pandemic. The team is working remotely from their homes. There have been a number of things in this PTS cycle that have been a little different, including the complete absence a influencer testing event.

starkerealm

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the main point of this post is valid.
In order to fully experience the new chapter players will either have to
1) be a sub
or
2) purchase additional DLC content.

This is the first chapter which has enforced this and it feels a little greedy considering players are already paying for the additional chapter.

That's not true. Elsweyr was structured the same way.
"Dark Heart of Skyrim" (Western Skyrim setting with Greymoor chapter) is following the same year-long "model; " the same structure and release pattern established with last year's "Season of the Dragon" Elsweyr content.

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging. Additionally I pointed out exactly what makes it different this time around. - requiring a sub or purchase of additional dlc such as wrothgar to access the full content provided with said "digging"

Psijic guild, warden and necro didn't require such dlc purchase they came complete with the chapter.

That's the detail I didn't see.

I mean, there's an extreme, and somewhat distorted, comparison with Summerset. In order to access jewelry sets in DLC zones, you either needed those zones or you needed someone in those zones who had Summerset to do the crafting for you.

However, while you're not wrong, you're also, not exactly, right. The new excavation system has been added game wide. So, the only thing you're missing out on are the digs in specific DLC or chapter locations. A that point, the question is whether there's anything worth getting in those zones. If your answer is, "the mythics," they are paywalled, but they're not P2W. They're all either very situational or very niche.

@starkerealm - Crafting set access has always been tied to DLC additionally players can access sets found in DLC zones via the Housing system - a base game feature.

Digging is account bound and certain mythic items and digs require DLC zones to be completed. I would argue the system is very different.

It is the reason I mention that as a game system it would have been better to add it as a base feature and then locate a number of the items within DHoS as rewards of that chapter / DLC.

I also feel my point previously about chapter content also stands and is worth consideration in combination with this.

Yeah, that's why I said the, "extreme and somewhat distorted comparison..."

The goal was to bake this stuff into every zone, so it wasn't just a novelty system that was forgotten in six months. That said, given that Ring of the Wild Hunt is in Murkmire... which is still a weird place to find it, you've got a point.

bearbelly

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging.

I did read your post. But it was poorly worded, so, yeah, I missed your point.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I can understand that digging this is a new system but I feel...

You lost me right there.
Crappy punctuation, or an extra word in there, and "digging?" "Digging" meant nothing to me in that jumble.
If you had mentioned "Antiquities," or even just used the term "mini-game," that sentence might have made sense.

Still wrong, though.
This year we have "digging" as the "paid feature."
In Season of the Dragon, the necromancer class was the "paid feature."

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging.

I did read your post. But it was poorly worded, so, yeah, I missed your point.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I can understand that digging this is a new system but I feel...

You lost me right there.
Crappy punctuation, or an extra word in there, and "digging?" "Digging" meant nothing to me in that jumble.
If you had mentioned "Antiquities," or even just used the term "mini-game," that sentence might have made sense.

Still wrong, though.
This year we have "digging" as the "paid feature."
In Season of the Dragon, the necromancer class was the "paid feature."

Actually necro was not "the season of the dragon" content.
It was Elsweyr content.

And did necro require additional DLCs to access its class skills? no.

ArchMikem

A paywall to stay "viable". Sorry but that is not true. You can be perfectly "viable" with base game crafted and dropped gear.

bearbelly

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging.

I did read your post. But it was poorly worded, so, yeah, I missed your point.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I can understand that digging this is a new system but I feel...

You lost me right there.
Crappy punctuation, or an extra word in there, and "digging?" "Digging" meant nothing to me in that jumble.
If you had mentioned "Antiquities," or even just used the term "mini-game," that sentence might have made sense.

Still wrong, though.
This year we have "digging" as the "paid feature."
In Season of the Dragon, the necromancer class was the "paid feature."

And did necro require additional DLCs to access its class skills?

You had to buy the "Northern Elsweyr " chapter. And the class functioned in the areas of the game that you already had unlocked.

Just like you have to purchase the Greymoor chapter to have access to Antiquities.
But you don't need to purchase additional DLCs.
The Antiquities system will have something to find in all of the areas of Tamriel that you currently have access to (base game, etc.), once you are granted the skill-lines in Solitude, so it's not like you won't be able to use it at all if you don't have a particular DLC.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging.

I did read your post. But it was poorly worded, so, yeah, I missed your point.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I can understand that digging this is a new system but I feel...

You lost me right there.
Crappy punctuation, or an extra word in there, and "digging?" "Digging" meant nothing to me in that jumble.
If you had mentioned "Antiquities," or even just used the term "mini-game," that sentence might have made sense.

Still wrong, though.
This year we have "digging" as the "paid feature."
In Season of the Dragon, the necromancer class was the "paid feature."

And did necro require additional DLCs to access its class skills?

You had to buy the "Northern Elsweyr " chapter. And the class functioned in the areas of the game that you already had unlocked.

Just like you have to purchase the Greymoor chapter to have access to Antiquities.
But you don't need to purchase additional DLCs.
The Antiquities system will have something to find in all of the areas of Tamriel that you currently have access to (base game, etc.), once you are granted the skill-lines in Solitude, so it's not like you won't be able to use it at all if you don't have a particular DLC.

You aren't understanding my point so i'll leave it there

starkerealm

@bearbelly, the point @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO is trying to make is that the Antiquities system leaks over into DLC zones that are not included with the Greymoor purchase. So, "to get full value from it..."

That's valid so far as it goes, but the purpose was to bake the Antiquities system into a game wide system, rather than it just being a new gimmick for this year, to be forgotten next.

Of course, next year, Antiquities will be baked into ESO+, as another + perk. And open question of whether you can unlock the Antiquities skill lines during a free ESO+ week next year, and keep digging afterwards (like Dark Brotherhood or Psijic), or if you need an active subscription (or to own Greymoor) to continue digging (like Jewelry Crafting.)

bearbelly

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You and the other guy didn't actually read my post. I'm not talking about the "year of content" I'm talking about the advertised features of THIS chapter. I.e. digging.

I did read your post. But it was poorly worded, so, yeah, I missed your point.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I can understand that digging this is a new system but I feel...

You lost me right there.
Crappy punctuation, or an extra word in there, and "digging?" "Digging" meant nothing to me in that jumble.
If you had mentioned "Antiquities," or even just used the term "mini-game," that sentence might have made sense.

Still wrong, though.
This year we have "digging" as the "paid feature."
In Season of the Dragon, the necromancer class was the "paid feature."

And did necro require additional DLCs to access its class skills?

You had to buy the "Northern Elsweyr " chapter. And the class functioned in the areas of the game that you already had unlocked.

Just like you have to purchase the Greymoor chapter to have access to Antiquities.
But you don't need to purchase additional DLCs.
The Antiquities system will have something to find in all of the areas of Tamriel that you currently have access to (base game, etc.), once you are granted the skill-lines in Solitude, so it's not like you won't be able to use it at all if you don't have a particular DLC.

You aren't understanding my point so i'll leave it there

No. I get your point, It's just not a good one.

There are lots of things in the game that you can't do if you don't have access to a corresponding DLC.
DLC dungeons, Maelstrom Arena, Transmutation (although, you can get around this one by paying 4000 crowns for a transmutation station)...

Antiquities isn't confined to a specific region. It will be active in every area of the map once you unlock the system.
I guess if you want ALL the antiquities, you have to pony-up for the areas you don't have unlocked, just like would have to do if you wanted to do many other things in the game, prior to this content.

That's why it's not a good point. This isn't the unique situation that you're trying to paint it as.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

.

starkerealm wrote: »

@bearbelly, the point @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO is trying to make is that the Antiquities system leaks over into DLC zones that are not included with the Greymoor purchase. So, "to get full value from it..."

That's valid so far as it goes, but the purpose was to bake the Antiquities system into a game wide system, rather than it just being a new gimmick for this year, to be forgotten next.

Of course, next year, Antiquities will be baked into ESO+, as another + perk. And open question of whether you can unlock the Antiquities skill lines during a free ESO+ week next year, and keep digging afterwards (like Dark Brotherhood or Psijic), or if you need an active subscription (or to own Greymoor) to continue digging (like Jewelry Crafting.)

Thanks for trying @starkerealm

Also here is the main section of my previous post:

"Aside from this 1 feature(Digging), to be honest even with it, the chapter is extremely light on non-story content in comparison to previous chapters and even some DLC's and I think a lot of players feel short changed due to this. From an endgame perspective the whole year looks devoid of content based on the current revealed features and planned DLCs which is troublesome for those of us who love to play the game but often feel frustrated due to performance and nothing new to do in our respective areas. Especially PVP."

starkerealm

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

...and nothing new to do in our respective areas. Especially PVP."

Oh, that's absolutely a thing. Unfortunately, it's also something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Nobody plays PvP," so there's no reason to invest in PvP, because "nobody plays PvP," because there's no new content developed for PvP.

Unfortunately, it also syncs up with how you're looking at Mythics, because they have a lot of PvP application. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're best in slot (ESO really doesn't have those), but they are a lot more enticing there.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

...and nothing new to do in our respective areas. Especially PVP."

Oh, that's absolutely a thing. Unfortunately, it's also something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Nobody plays PvP," so there's no reason to invest in PvP, because "nobody plays PvP," because there's no new content developed for PvP.

Unfortunately, it also syncs up with how you're looking at Mythics, because they have a lot of PvP application. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're best in slot (ESO really doesn't have those), but they are a lot more enticing there.

It always frustrates me when the story revolves around "PVPers don't generate as much revenue etc" for example, mini pets can't be shown in PVP so why would a pvper buy them, There's no PVP housing features (such as a PVP toggle for the house based on grouping) so why would a PVPer invest in housing.

There have only ever been 2 PVP DLC's in all these years (IC and Morrowind-bg's). Neither of which have really received much in the way of updating so aside from new gear there isn't really much attraction to new content. That's why it can be frustrating when a PVPer buys new content (at a higher chapter price) and still can't access it without spending more.

Performance in general is a terrible problem and just in the last DLC (Harrowstorm) a lot of guilds in PVP have lost maybe 30% of their playerbase due to it. So yes there is a population problem in PVP - but at launch it wasn't like that. We are in this situation for a reason and its not really on the PVP playerbase imo.

SaraMoonandStar

In response to some of the statements; im arguing for people who have been fired because of the virus and are stuck at home due to forced quarantines and who really really want to play the new content but simply can't afford it. I felt bad and wanted to do something to help. Maybe I should have written the company a letter instead of posting this on here, but I thought this would be fine, im not a forum warrior, this is my third post in 6 years of playing.

My original post was to ZOS , not the players. Everyone is capable of budgeting and making decisions about what to spend money on and what to do in this kind of global pandemic event. I am asking a company to make peoples lives a little easier and a little better by offering something for free or offering discounts. I work for a business who offered all their tenants 50% discount on rent, I have seen major corporation offering discounts and deferred payments on everything from cars to insurance. Im also not saying anyone is "entitled" to discounts or free entertainment...IM SAYING IT WOULD BE NICE.

I dont even think one forum post will change the minds of anyone in ZOS, I assume they have already had PR or marketing people tell them the benefits of charity right now. There is nothing wrong with charity, or asking for charity on behalf of those who need it. But i am happy to see this has generated discussion, whether its positive or negative and I hope maybe someone up there will notice and make someones day a little better

Sara

starkerealm

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

...and nothing new to do in our respective areas. Especially PVP."

Oh, that's absolutely a thing. Unfortunately, it's also something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Nobody plays PvP," so there's no reason to invest in PvP, because "nobody plays PvP," because there's no new content developed for PvP.

Unfortunately, it also syncs up with how you're looking at Mythics, because they have a lot of PvP application. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're best in slot (ESO really doesn't have those), but they are a lot more enticing there.

It always frustrates me when the story revolves around "PVPers don't generate as much revenue etc" for example, mini pets can't be shown in PVP so why would a pvper buy them, There's no PVP housing features (such as a PVP toggle for the house based on grouping) so why would a PVPer invest in housing.

There have only ever been 2 PVP DLC's in all these years (IC and Morrowind-bg's). Neither of which have really received much in the way of updating so aside from new gear there isn't really much attraction to new content. That's why it can be frustrating when a PVPer buys new content (at a higher chapter price) and still can't access it without spending more.

Performance in general is a terrible problem and just in the last DLC (Harrowstorm) a lot of guilds in PVP have lost maybe 30% of their playerbase due to it. So yes there is a population problem in PVP - but at launch it wasn't like that. We are in this situation for a reason and its not really on the PVP playerbase imo.

Yeah, the worst part is, Imperial City really put PvP and PvE communities at each other's throats. It was the first new content to hit after Craglorn, (so after nearly a year.) It led to some brutal arguments and resentment, and can't have helped either community.

The other thing is, a lot of the balance changes coming through really are PVP focused. Brian and Gil both have extensive backgrounds with PvP. So, PvE players are feeling like things are being changed arbitrarily (and have been for over a year), while PvP suffers from performance issues and attrition there.

Yeah, it's a rough situation all around.

Clone4423

I understand that ZOS needs to make money, but untill they fix the performance of the game, they won't be getting mine.

Rave the Histborn

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

...and nothing new to do in our respective areas. Especially PVP."

Oh, that's absolutely a thing. Unfortunately, it's also something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Nobody plays PvP," so there's no reason to invest in PvP, because "nobody plays PvP," because there's no new content developed for PvP.

Unfortunately, it also syncs up with how you're looking at Mythics, because they have a lot of PvP application. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're best in slot (ESO really doesn't have those), but they are a lot more enticing there.

It always frustrates me when the story revolves around "PVPers don't generate as much revenue etc" for example, mini pets can't be shown in PVP so why would a pvper buy them, There's no PVP housing features (such as a PVP toggle for the house based on grouping) so why would a PVPer invest in housing.

There have only ever been 2 PVP DLC's in all these years (IC and Morrowind-bg's). Neither of which have really received much in the way of updating so aside from new gear there isn't really much attraction to new content. That's why it can be frustrating when a PVPer buys new content (at a higher chapter price) and still can't access it without spending more.

Performance in general is a terrible problem and just in the last DLC (Harrowstorm) a lot of guilds in PVP have lost maybe 30% of their playerbase due to it. So yes there is a population problem in PVP - but at launch it wasn't like that. We are in this situation for a reason and its not really on the PVP playerbase imo.

I see a lot of apex mounts in Cyrodiil

Thannazzar

Raisin wrote: »

How are the Mythic Items different from the BiS gear/skills that came with the other Chapters?

Or DLCs

OtarTheMad

I really don't see the new mythic items as being BiS. They are nice, very niche though and I think you can do just about any content in the game without it. I mean are people, who can complete the hardest content in the game right now, all of a sudden not going to be able to complete that content without Mythic Gear? No, they'll be fine and complete it because not much has changed really. You certainly, imo, wouldn't need this Mythic Gear to be viable.

As for Wardens and Necromancers being p2w, please. I will never understand that. When both Necro and Warden hit they both had the same issue really. The stamina class was in the top 3 but the magicka version of the class was at the bottom. Is Necro a strong class? Yes. Do you NEED to have it to complete content? Not really. Same goes for Warden. p2w has always said to me that a game just simply cannot be won/completed without that certain thing, hence pay 2 win. Do we have that here? I don't believe so. MAYBE things are a little tougher because of that ONE debuff necro's have but that doesn't mean you can't do the content without it. In my opinion, in both pve and pvp, you have a few classes that are stronger than both of these. So if these classes are not at the very top of the class list and leading by a bunch, how can they be any sort of p2w?

Trapped behind a paywall? Okay but don't a lot of companies do that with expansions?

Eifleber

it's not than many (if not most) succesful other MMO's (that also have their issues) have this business model.

You buy the game.
You buy the expansions.
You pay a monthly fee.

It's only the crown crate stuff (and to a lesser extent crown store) that I despise.

WeerW3ir

Raisin wrote: »

How are the Mythic Items different from the BiS gear/skills that came with the other Chapters?

Mythic items should be base game. thats all. i dont approve the paywall part. but yeah. it should be basegame. lol

Universe

I wish ZOS have sticked to the mandatory subscription model and not go B2P.
There would be less microtransactions and paywalls and more actual development & fixes if that was the case...

The game is barely playable without ESO Plus in the long term anyway(Inventory management is nearly impossible, not to mention the countless advantages of accessing DLCs).
I know one can manage without a subscription and only play base game, but it's far from being ideal.

AmoralOne

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

My point here is that it IS a HARDER time for MOST people right now and a company should consider doing whatever they can to help. If that means offering discounts because people cant afford their stuff or deferred payments then that should be ok for me, a customer, to request.

Just my two cents, but if you can not afford real world items right now, you most likely do not need to be buying items for a video game.

I see no reason at all for Zos or any other non-essential company to cut cost of any item(s). If you can not afford a non-essential purchase you shouldn't be buying it. With a discount, or without one.

SeaGtGruff

Moose_Scout wrote: »

Further, Necromancer (and Warden) is the best pvp AND pve class. Another paywall. Nightblades are the worst while some Dk and some sorc builds are struggling... but they are "base game" classes so maybe that is on purpose.

Well, it seems to be impossible these days to buy the base game without getting Morrowind with it-- which is something I'd actually be interested in doing, buying the base game by itself so I can start with the original tutorial instead of having to start with the Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, or Greymoor tutorials. So I would say that, for new players at least, the Warden class is definitely not behind a paywall.