Utility of rattlecage for DPS

Most_Awesome · May 2020

Run the jewellery and two armour pieces or weapons.

Maplar, Magcrow, MagDK =Yes

Any other Mag class =No

Overland Content =Yes

PvP =Yes

Normal Dungeons=Yes

DLC Dungeons =No

Trials =No

Vajrak · May 2020

I use Rattlecage as a mainstay, and have done most content in the game, on vet -- but just like any other set you have to build for it.

I won't speak for Magcro/DK's, but for Magplar, you really don't have enough barslots and chugging potions constantly gets expensive fast. You lose a little bit of crit, for a good amount of Spell Damage -- overall a fair trade-off. And you can still use 2nd set and monster set to have 70% crit rate.

Drdeath20 · May 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I always seem to get suspiciously great drops of this set from Vaults and my magPlar definitely fits into that category of "Classes having no innate access to Major Sorcery" so I've hung on to a few of them.

I like to use Health + Armor pots on a melee class such as magPlar and, of course, you also need to use Immovability and other utility potions frequently. As such, depending upon Spell pots for your Major Sorcery is not always a viable option.

After that, Degeneration is simply a bad skill in PvP, but I grudgingly keep it on my bar to provide the buff. That bar slot is valuable real estate and I would love to get it back, but using Rattlecage seems like too much of a trade.

There's other considerations as well, such as the sub-optimal nature of having to either give up a back-bar Potentates or arena set or else deal with having Sorcery only on your front bar and potentially having weaker heals if they're slotted on your defensive bar.

And if you want to use NMA you then have to wear it on your body instead of front-barred, so your overall sustain will be that much worse.

Group up with a dk and the 5th piece of the RC set amounts to just 100spd

Drdeath20 · May 2020

Just by getting good at quick swapping potions makes the convenience of major sorcery as a 5th piece not worthwhile. Slotting degeneration or befriending a dk almost nullifies it too. Mathmatically its a weaker set and the luxury it provides is rather flimsy.

Theres lots of reasons why RC is a bad set, pvp and pve, but if you use it and like it more power to ya.

ck37090 · May 2020

You basically lose 200sd in comparable utility. You save the cost of whatever spell you might use to gain the buff or the ability to use an alternative potion. I like the set for a templer PvP heavy armor healer.

Sange13 · May 2020

Stx wrote: »

I would say rattlecage has its uses but ultimately it's only useful if you absolutely cant use a spell power pot.

If you're into soloing pve content like maelstrom arena or vet dungeons you can make a decent build with it.

But honestly degeneration is not a bad skill. The damage is B tier and the cost is very low. Also you get passive 2% magicka for slotting it on your front bar.

Between Degen and Inner Light, every magicka spec has access to the 2 of the 3 most important dps buffs (the 3rd being 10% crit damage), so Rattlecage just isn't justifiable. If it were to increase the effect of that buff by some portion--maybe take it from 20% to 30%, it could be worth consideration maybe, but for now it's a newb trap set. Same with the stam version of it.

Ajaks · May 2020

I use it on my magplar in PVP as it allows me diversity on potions. It can also be used on necromancers as they are very buff heavy class if you actually want to play them as summoners. Keeping the armor, spirit guardian and skeletal mage up is already annoying enough. Add up tether/mortal coil and half of the time you'll be constantly re - buffing/summoning. For most of the other classes it would be a sub-optimal choice tho.

Sange13 · May 2020

Honestly, I just wish self-cast buffs lasted longer. 12-20 seconds at a time for many of them is way too short. Give it a minute or two instead.

Eifleber · May 2020

The talk is mostly about Major Sorcery and how the Rattlecage set can free up an extra slot or save you pots.
I am by no means a specialist (only play since dec 2019 and I play 6 characters) but I wonder if here is no added value in wearing the set in terms of survivability.

I mainly play healer. In a lot of DLC vet content there is very high spike damage. Often there are people with quite high dps (I guess using recommended dd builds) but with very, very low health and armour and they die a lot. Nothing I can do about it. I can give an occasional shield and keep up small resist buffs and heal you - but you simply can not outheal spike damage.

Personally I have gradually scaled up my healer's hp to around 20k (that's including food buff) and I noticed that I survive a lot more spike attacks, leaving me at 5%-10% health. Not being able to aquire a full Rattlecage set with good traits yet but I imagine heavy armour may have the same effect. Sure I guess that it may take 10% longer if people scale down their dps in favour of survivability but on the other hand surely it may save you from a lot of deaths/wipes?

Ajaks · May 2020

Sange13 wrote: »

For a min/max standpoint you are crippling yourself. If you don't have gold for potions, or cant craft your own, that's your fault.

Advising people to not use potions, its like advising them to not use food...

Rattlecage is a "casual" set, plain and simple, and nobody will use it in an optimal context, neither in PvE or PvP.

BUT... I'm not saying you can't use it, you certainly can, Im just saying nobody should take a serious advise for someone who actually use it (because that person must be a really casual player).

Well, as said before it is a sub-optimal set for maxing out your damage. And it is useful only on certain classes. That being said - it doesn't mean that you can't make it work in a great way to your advantage if it fits your play-style. I often pull most damage with it in random squads on my magplar with it, and in PVP it saves the slot for more damaging skills than degeneration and the time for constantly prepping up the buff. I find it especially useful in BGs.

https://ibb.co/TkmHGMG

https://ibb.co/b3Gy8f4

https://ibb.co/ZfDjqnf

https://ibb.co/0Bw2w0T

https://ibb.co/5G2Mprn

Sange13 · May 2020

Eifleber wrote: »

The talk is mostly about Major Sorcery and how the Rattlecage set can free up an extra slot or save you pots.
I am by no means a specialist (only play since dec 2019 and I play 6 characters) but I wonder if here is no added value in wearing the set in terms of survivability.

I mainly play healer. In a lot of DLC vet content there is very high spike damage. Often there are people with quite high dps (I guess using recommended dd builds) but with very, very low health and armour and they die a lot. Nothing I can do about it. I can give an occasional shield and keep up small resist buffs and heal you - but you simply can not outheal spike damage.

Personally I have gradually scaled up my healer's hp to around 20k (that's including food buff) and I noticed that I survive a lot more spike attacks, leaving me at 5%-10% health. Not being able to aquire a full Rattlecage set with good traits yet but I imagine heavy armour may have the same effect. Sure I guess that it may take 10% longer if people scale down their dps in favour of survivability but on the other hand surely it may save you from a lot of deaths/wipes?

About 18k+ is the expected standard (with food on) if you want to survive as dps. Putting on heavy armor isn't worth it either because you lose out on A LOT of dps due to losing those light armor passives (crit and pen especially). It's a bad deal and you don't need to wear heavy armor if you want some extra defenses. You can use a mundus stone, most classes have access to Major Resolve in some form or another, and the majority of burst damage is avoidable in the first place so it's really more of a L2P issue.

Sange13 · May 2020

Ajaks wrote: »

Well, as said before it is a sub-optimal set for maxing out your damage. And it is useful only on certain classes. That being said - it doesn't mean that you can't make it work in a great way to your advantage if it fits your play-style. I often pull most damage with it in random squads on my magplar with it, and in PVP it saves the slot for more damaging skills than degeneration and the time for constantly prepping up the buff. I find it especially useful in BGs.

Out-dpsing randoms is nothing. I frequently do that while leveling characters in random dungeons with 300+ cp squads. Knowing how to play is more important than your build. However, as far as Rattlecage goes in a build...

It doesn't matter if it's PvE or PvP, the same options exist and you should be taking advantage of any other source of Major Sorcery that is available to you, including potions if necessary. The opportunity cost for Rattlecage is just too damned high! You are taking an easily acquired buff from dozens of other sources (some of them available to literally everyone) and losing out on the potential to have much stronger offensive or defensive procs or simply stronger stats (such as Mother's Sorrow or Julianos). Almost *any* other light set in the game would be a better choice, and if you're using the weapons/jewelry, there are even other heavy sets that would be better.

Bradyfjord · May 2020

Rattlecage is not a bad set to have. That said, you will eventually find that other things will be better.
Everything in ESO is viable to a degree. You have to figure out how to make it work. My suggestion is to get it and try it out.

I know a Templar that loves Rattlecage, but he uses pelinal's aptitude with it. This makes both his damage attributes equal to the highest one. It's also important to mention that he duo's with me, and I play DK. DK's give minor berserk, and Templars give minor sorcery. We both run hybrid/tanky/healy builds and try to take on vet dungeons sometimes.

khaoticfury · June 2021

Vajrak wrote: »

I use Rattlecage as a mainstay, and have done most content in the game, on vet -- but just like any other set you have to build for it.

I won't speak for Magcro/DK's, but for Magplar, you really don't have enough barslots and chugging potions constantly gets expensive fast. You lose a little bit of crit, for a good amount of Spell Damage -- overall a fair trade-off. And you can still use 2nd set and monster set to have 70% crit rate.

this. running rattlecage, mothers sorrow, iceheart helm, and slimecraw shoulders on my magcro....4500 spell power and 67.5% crit chance....i have never used potions, so this set up is perfect.

CaptainVenom · June 2021

It depends on your class. For a Sorcerer that can easily get Major Sorcery through Surge, it's a bad set. For a Necromancer, it can work as a preemptive buff without needing to cast Entropy.

In any event, you can always get it from potions.

exeeter702 · June 2021

I thought necromancers only summoned dead corpses, not threads?.

EF321 · June 2021

Rattlecage has two 5-piece bonuses, with other being additional spell damage line. It is not just permanent major buffs, like many here say.

Not having to cast some ability for major sorcery: frees up a slot, saves magicka you'd use on cast, allows you to cast something that does damage instead. So it has indirect benefits. LIke with medusa you don't have to waste time and magicka casting acceleration and it just feels so good not casting acceleration in your rotation.

Replacing spell power component in potion with something else can be extremely useful, especially in PvP. Also, having extra health and flat spell damage is nice for pvp too, as well as an ability to add as many heavy armor pieces as you'd like, while still building for mag damage.

Not BiS, but it can have it's place.

FrancisCrawford · June 2021

Is Rattlecage useful as a set to put on in scenarios where a healer is supposed to also off-tank?

FrancisCrawford · June 2021

I'm guess that in PvP healer situations where you go all-heavy, the natural choice would be one set for additional defense and one for sustain (e.g. Seducer, since it's craftable).

Andre_Noir · June 2021

The problem is:
In PVE you will get that buff anyway. In trials at least.
In PVP, depend of play style and group ofc, you won't get so high SD number to make this set rly worth. It's not even about numbers because you need some utility (like VD, Caluurion or another proc that fit your style) and sustain. The last one is that hasn't place in PVE usually where you can just simply stack damage and get resources from orbs/healer sets

katorga · June 2021

Rattlecage/Mothers Sorrow is my default setup for solo and random normal dailies on my necro. Too lazy to worry about pots or degenerations.

I don't wear it is most group content.

BXR_Lonestar · June 2021

Its hard to judge the set on its own, TBF. I think you can make a strong build with it

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So rattlecage is a heavy armor set, but i was curious what the community think about using the weapons and jewelry from rattle cage for a magika dps role. Rattlecage gives great bonuses but is heavy armor. But if one were to apply rattlecage to jewelry and weapons it wouldnt take away from the light armor pasives gained from wearing all light armor, while gaining great bonuses from rattlecage.

I'm using it on my pet sorc right now with mother's sorrow and Maw of the Infernal with pretty good results actually. I'm over the 6500 SD threshhold (at least in execute phase with 3x bloodthirsty trait jewelry), and outside of what other people will tell you, a double-pet sorc's skill slots are at a premium, so saving the slot that would otherwise be used for critical surge allows me to take another damaging ability. In maelstrom, it also allows me a bit more flexibility for what skills I want/need in a particular arena, so overall, I'd say its not a terrible set. But people are going to have differing opinions on it.

Septimus_Magna · June 2021

Rattle Cage is in my opinion one of the worst sets for magicka DDs, the major sorcery buff is very easy to get.
Why not run Julianos instead? Is better in every way.

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Run the jewellery and two armour pieces or weapons.

Maplar, Magcrow, MagDK =Yes

Any other Mag class =No

Overland Content =Yes

PvP =Yes

Normal Dungeons=Yes

DLC Dungeons =No

Trials =No

Weapon as 5pc piece will cause you to lose the buff when swapping weapons.
On armor it will mean you run 5L/2H which results in a loss of spell crit, spell pen and mag regen so thats also not a good trade-off.

I would always run Julianos+Degen over Rattlecage, the health bonus also doesnt help for PVE dps specs.

hackdrag0n · June 2021

Rattlecage might seem useful if you're just looking at the set in a vacuum but you'd be better off front barring Medusa for anything PvE related. Casting degeneration is instant, gives you 20s of major sorcery, and still does damage even if it's a relatively weak dot. Given it's utility it should be expected to be weaker than other skills you could run instead. To get minor force you either need to be in melee range or cast a channeled skill. Both are more annoying than popping an instant cast skill every other rotation. Mobs don't always walk over your barbed trap in trash pulls and mobile fights and acceleration costs 2 GCD's and a light attack.

Fennwitty · June 2021

exeeter702 wrote: »

I thought necromancers only summoned dead corpses, not threads?.

Still a relevant question that appears periodically. I don't think there've been any real changes to the set since the opening post so everything still applies.

I've considered using Rattlecage (and stam equivalent Dreugh King Slayer) for pvp situations, but haven't yet tried it out.

For PvP, with my DK (not ideal these days, but let me finish) it's appealing to have a permanent Major Sorcery/Savagery vs. the oddly timed Molten Weapons series or potions.

Being able to skip a bar swap and extra global cooldown, and not having to wait on a lagging potion to register (sometimes they just won't go down your throat) is very convenient.

PvE though, it's very hard to justify using these sets unless your playstyle just doesn't support continued skill use or potions.