TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Shouts are a mythic level type of magic. Dragon language isn't just words its also power. Mortals can in fact learn it. But here is the deal for a mortal to use the power not only do they have to know how to read or speak the dragon language but they would have to know it with the core of their being and in their hearts and in their minds and likely in their souls.

They have to speak these words so much that they know it by heart and likely have to meditate on it for a long time to even speak one word Its a life time endeavor for groups like the Greybeard. Recruits are likely selected at a very young age to climb the mountain to join up. If you want to know how long it takes greybeards to learn to truly master it takes a long long time. There is a reason why they are called Greybeards.

They would have to recruit them at a very young age because of how long it takes for them to master it and even then they will never fully master it like a Dragonborn. Who could know hundreds or even thousands of Shout combinations if they had the full knowledge of the Dragon language and the time to learn it and if they trained like the Greybeards did. That is how powerful the Last Dragonborn was though mechanics might have limited how powerful we became. But with all those dragon souls plus all those shouts and if the last dragonborn took up mediation like the Greybeards oh boy they would be extremely powerful. More powerful then the most powerful Greybeards who can't even talk because their voices are so powerful. Now that is how powerful a Dragonborn can be if they knew the language if they took up the path of the Greybeard.

For a vampire it might be possible for them if they take the time of many many life times to learn the way of the voice to get close to the mastery that the Last Dragonborn had potential for. Other then having to drink blood they could take up the Mastery a lot further then a Greybeard. Would be neat if they could do a boss like this a vampire ancient that practiced the Thu'um that would be interesting.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dovahkiin

Here is the thing Shouts are so powerful balancing them would not be easy. The lore is clear how hard it is to learn it unless you have the soul of a dragon. It would likely take a very very very long time for the vestige to do it in game. Its not worth it and the reason why they might be unwilling to do it.

Several of the Draugr in TES 5 Skyrim knew Shouts because they knew the dragon language as they were around it and many of them even worshiped Dragons. A lot of the Draugr we encounter in Skyrim are from the Time periods when the Dragon Cult and Dragons Ruled over Skyrim. Some did have the potential and had learned some words of the Thu'um but it still likely took them many years in life to learn the shouts they did use in Skyrim.
Thing is it won't work shouts are far too powerful and very hard to learn realistically for an mmo.

Vampire Lords are easier to do since we get our full vampirism from a pure blooded vampire Lamae. They are going ahead and adding them in and since a second generation vampire lord would be as powerful as a werewolf. Or even a bit more powerful then one and I think that might be the only reason why we are getting Vampire Lords at all.

But don't expect them to ever give us a Thu'um skill line. I hope they never ever do it and if they do them they better be OP as can be. As they rightfully should be very op. If you want to Shout play TES 5 Skyrim but for an mmo such as this its a bad idea. But I do understand the desire to see them. But thinking about it it wouldn't be a good idea maybe one day they could do something with the Thu'um but I don't think they should do it. I'd rather have spell crafting to be honest with you.

> and since a second generation vampire lord would be as powerful as a werewolf

I'm sorry what?

In the lore a Vampire Lord would be worth an entire pack of Werewolves or do you think something like a Lich which a Vampire Lord can be compared to is only as powerful as a Werewolf when in truth a lone Werewolf would stand almost no chance against one.

You clearly do not understand how powerful a Vampire Lord is supposed to be, Harkon had slain hundreds of people and was powerful enough to create a shield that could resist anything short of a divine weapon, when last did a Werewolf possess that sort of power? oh that is right, they didn't, even Vykosa the Werewolf Lord is probably no more powerful then a Vampire Lord is in their Human form.

I was going by the factors of the Player version of the Vampire lord we had in Skyrim and the lore of vampires. First Generation vampires would be the most powerful kind of vampire. For each generation is weaker then the one that turns them this isn't the case with Werewolves as they work differently. Unless they are werewolf lords since they would similarly to vampires. Of course age can also factor in for vampire to grow more powerful. But even with age a Vampire Lord Dragonborn wouldn't be able to become as powerful as Lord Harkon in vampire lord form that is. (Humaniod form they would become so much more powerful then Harkon given the Dragonborn thing.) but could become closer to it in that form but couldn't become as powerful as Harkon was as they are not First Generation. So Harkon will always be a stronger vampire lord because of this.

The Elder Scrolls games don't give us the ability to grow more powerful with age but its hinted at being something that happens with Vampires. But it would take years for a vampires power to grow it might even take a hundreds of years. A vampire would start out as a fledgling and as they grow older their vampire power also increases.

Second Generation Vampire Lords would be powerful but more the type of power that can be balanced for an mmo.

Harkon has slain hundreds of people but I think he was very paranoid about death doubt he would want to fight anyone anywhere but near his shrine of Molag Bal which he could draw power from to heal himself. He was smart enough to heal himself by use of the Shrine and taking on the foes till they were dead while constantly moving around instead of just standing in place like most bad guys. Harkon was unique for a bad guy but his ambitions did do him in though. So he fell prey to the very thing that gets Villains defeated. But given he was so paranoid about death he likely did a lot of practice and kept himself in shape.

Here is my understanding of how Vampire Generations work.
A First Generation Vampire like Harkon could easily take on a full pack of Werewolves and come on top.
A Second generation Vampire lord could be powerful enough to take on werewolves but at the same time might not be able to take on a pack that out maneuvers the vampire lord and likely could kill it.
A Third Generation Vampire lord would likely be weaker then a Second gen but might be able to one on one a werewolf.
A Forth gen might be weaker then a werewolf.
A fifth Gen likely can't even take up the Vampire Lord Transformation.

But also powers might grow with age. So each generation is weaker but their power their abilties might grow stronger. A Second gen vampire lord lord could go from a mini boss to epic boss but couldn't become a Legendary boss because that is something only a First Gen vampire is able to do.
Third Gen would be weak enough but maybe could become a moderate boss at max.
A Forth Gen vampire at best could become a mini boss but I think at best would be the weakest generation that could take up the Vampire lord.
A Fifth Gen Vampire might not be strong enough to take up the Vampire Lord form but can still grow powerful with in their humanoid form. But a sixth gen could be powerful but not as powerful as a sixth gen ancient vampire.

Now a Mortal descendant of Harkon because they have his bloodline within their veins if its strong enough and the stars are right any generation of vampire can turn them and they would become a vampire lord. I do think it would be likely they would have the power of a Second gen vampire even if they are say like a ninth generation vampire. They would have the full ability to become a Vampire Lord despite their vampiric generation.

So Vampiric power is based on their generation while Werewolves (not werewolf lord and their descendants those don't count.) Would remain as powerful as their werewolf sires. But some might have the potential to become Pack Leaders and become Stronger possibly. So each new generation would be distributed out and wouldn't weaken. But those that get it from a purer source like Hircine or the Companions Blood Ritual could have better control then ones that get it from the disease. But unlike Vampires its more consistent with the power and I think there wouldn't be much difference in power if any.

Lycanthropes have a harder time controlling their transforms some can but many can't even some that use the Companions method could at times struggle to control it. Going by the werewolf in the Dark Brotherhood in Eso.
I think it depends on the training and will power of the Mortal that takes it up.
Vampire have struggles with controlling their blood thirst but its not nearly as bad as the Werewolves struggle as they can learn to control it like this vampire in Oblivion.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jakben,_Earl_of_Imbel
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Diary_of_Springheel_Jak
Some might have a easier time then others and with the right training can control it much sooner like the Ravenwatch Vampires.

'Werewolves might have better control if they are part of a pack but only if they are with a pack. Vampires can be alone and learn to control it. Lycanthropes would really struggle without a pack. Which could be another big difference between vampires and lycanthropes.

Yes, it would be possible to learn a shout. Technically.

However, to do so, our characters would have to study for many, MANY years to even be able to utter a single word with the tonal power of the Thu'um.

We would also need to give the Greybeards a solid reason or taking us on and teaching us.

It potentially could happen, but I highly doubt it will.