Wrath-spamming pet sorcs are a plague in BGs right now — change my mind.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

ZOS just need to change Mage's Wrath from kill stealing tool to something actually useful for solo player.

Firstmep · May 2020

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not see many MagSorcs anymore after LA shields and pet damage got nerfed into the ground.
In Cyrodiil, Stam tanks hiding behind HeavyArmor while spamming DizzyingSwing are the real infestation.

Who even uses heavy Armour anymore lol.

Foto1 · May 2020

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

BalticBlues · May 2020

Who even can use Light Armor anymore?

Not even Templars can wear LA in PvP anymore now that LA shields have low resistance and can be crit. The ONLY class still able to play LA is Sorc because they have a better class shield and Streak to escape dire situations. All other mag classes have been gutted with the LA nerfs so bad that LA is not viable anymore. FOR ONE FULL YEAR NOW, Stamina rules PvP. Sorc is the last mag class being able to stand the pressure of Stamina - and this is why Stamina hates Sorcs so much. The moment Sorcs will be nerfed even more, in PvP Stamina will play with itself...

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Indeed. The Matriarch is only good for healing, but requires two slots and does too little damage. After all the pet nerfs, you cannot kill a strong player with a pet build anymore. This is why good mag sorcs do not use pets anymore and use two damage skills instead - which are needed to kill the strongest stamina builds.

Kadoin · May 2020

It's funny because when they changed matriach heal to be as powerful as it is on live I said that it would be a problem and was a terrible idea, I remember getting a lot of pushback

Heals more than BoL, 360 degree targeting, heals more targets, on a class that can shield and has a delayed execute, and the best gapcloser + snare removal. What could ever possibly go wrong?

Now that people on live are finally catching up, how long until there is an entire petsorc zerg in Cyrodiil. I've only seen it once by some JPN guild that was trolling and did it out of frustration, but people will soon realize that a zerg of that composition will not be a joke for anyone facing it, especially if they use the right proc sets

Someone please make a video of their zerg streaking down the hills and bombing everyone. I don't mind being a sacrifice on the other sided for that video to be made if that is what it takes

Minyassa · May 2020

Solo-queueing BGs fixed EVERYTHING. EVERY. THING. Even all your real life problems. It was the be-all, end-all answer to every single problem in existence. Therefore there are no plagues in BGs. They are now perfect. Unless you're a married or dating couple who like to game together, but those people clearly do not count so PERFECT!

Langeston · May 2020

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Honestly? I'd say either you're not very well informed or you're being dishonest.

I keep seeing sorcs trying to convince everyone that "the best magsorcs don't even use the Matriarch" and "the best sorcs don't even use Streak," and it's utter BS. I play with and against the best sorcs every day, (in fact most of them are in the BG guild that I'm in) and nearly all of them are using both skills.

So yeah, were going to have to go ahead and agree to disagree.

Tammany · May 2020

If pet works like a wall for an enemy, it must block los for owner too, so shooting through pets should not be possible, its logical.

daemonor · May 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not see many MagSorcs anymore after LA shields and pet damage got nerfed into the ground.
In Cyrodiil, Stam tanks hiding behind HeavyArmor while spamming DizzyingSwing are the real infestation.

Who even uses heavy Armour anymore lol.

The forum experts who never put a single point into stamina and went to battlegrounds/cyrodil probably. Everyone who actually plays stamina in pvp runs 5 medium.

technohic · May 2020

I feel like its ironic that they nerfed sorcs over and over while ignoring what really makes them annoying. Delayed burst and execute, to go along with being able to disengage with ease. They even doubled down and made Streak a unblockable, undodgeable, AOE CC with really good range. Makes it easy to just spam to get executes and zip around making the enemy very exposed if they try to chase you

Lord-Otto · May 2020

Langeston wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Honestly? I'd say either you're not very well informed or you're being dishonest.

I keep seeing sorcs trying to convince everyone that "the best magsorcs don't even use the Matriarch" and "the best sorcs don't even use Streak," and it's utter BS. I play with and against the best sorcs every day, (in fact most of them are in the BG guild that I'm in) and nearly all of them are using both skills.

So yeah, were going to have to go ahead and agree to disagree.

Pets are indeed a liability in Cyrodiil. You are missing a slot you dearly need, and the cost for the heal is very high. The pet also has a habit of flying into certain death. And if multiple people fight you, it'll get killed nonstop, completely neutering the build.
The problems lie within the battlegrounds mode, simple. It's a mediocre activity at best and you're giving it way too much attention.

The_Lex · May 2020

Part of the problem is that, at least from my experience, Wrath helps proc Frags much more reliably than anything else. Other skills will proc it but two hits of Wrath almost guarantees a proc. It sets up one of the most powerful burst combos in the game too easily. Spam Wrath to set up the burst, or if others whittle the enemy down, steal the kill.

Langeston · May 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Honestly? I'd say either you're not very well informed or you're being dishonest.

I keep seeing sorcs trying to convince everyone that "the best magsorcs don't even use the Matriarch" and "the best sorcs don't even use Streak," and it's utter BS. I play with and against the best sorcs every day, (in fact most of them are in the BG guild that I'm in) and nearly all of them are using both skills.

So yeah, were going to have to go ahead and agree to disagree.

Pets are indeed a liability in Cyrodiil. You are missing a slot you dearly need, and the cost for the heal is very high. The pet also has a habit of flying into certain death. And if multiple people fight you, it'll get killed nonstop, completely neutering the build.
The problems lie within the battlegrounds mode, simple. It's a mediocre activity at best and you're giving it way too much attention.

I thought I made it pretty clear in the title of the thread that the post was specifically about BGs — your comment seems to be specifically about Cyrodiil so I'm not sure how it's relevant.

Firstmep · May 2020

BalticBlues wrote: »

Who even can use Light Armor anymore?

Not even Templars can wear LA in PvP anymore now that LA shields have low resistance and can be crit. The ONLY class still able to play LA is Sorc because they have a better class shield and Streak to escape dire situations. All other mag classes have been gutted with the LA nerfs so bad that LA is not viable anymore. FOR ONE FULL YEAR NOW, Stamina rules PvP. Sorc is the last mag class being able to stand the pressure of Stamina - and this is why Stamina hates Sorcs so much. The moment Sorcs will be nerfed even more, in PvP Stamina will play with itself...

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Indeed. The Matriarch is only good for healing, but requires two slots and does too little damage. After all the pet nerfs, you cannot kill a strong player with a pet build anymore. This is why good mag sorcs do not use pets anymore and use two damage skills instead - which are needed to kill the strongest stamina builds.

What are you smoking? Maybe I'm not aware of the latest zergling meta, but in bgs pretty much all Magicka users use light Armour, bar some healers/cc tanks.
Even in cyro most people don't use heavy as there are plenty of good defensive sets out there and light /medium passives are too good to pass up.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka · May 2020

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts due to violating our rules involving baiting and bashing. Please keep your posts constructive and civil. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

Lord-Otto · May 2020

Langeston wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Honestly? I'd say either you're not very well informed or you're being dishonest.

I keep seeing sorcs trying to convince everyone that "the best magsorcs don't even use the Matriarch" and "the best sorcs don't even use Streak," and it's utter BS. I play with and against the best sorcs every day, (in fact most of them are in the BG guild that I'm in) and nearly all of them are using both skills.

So yeah, were going to have to go ahead and agree to disagree.

Pets are indeed a liability in Cyrodiil. You are missing a slot you dearly need, and the cost for the heal is very high. The pet also has a habit of flying into certain death. And if multiple people fight you, it'll get killed nonstop, completely neutering the build.
The problems lie within the battlegrounds mode, simple. It's a mediocre activity at best and you're giving it way too much attention.

I thought I made it pretty clear in the title of the thread that the post was specifically about BGs — your comment seems to be specifically about Cyrodiil so I'm not sure how it's relevant.

Hmhm, I wasn't very clear. When you try to think about a change, think how this would impact Cyrodiil, which is a more important game mode. Also, play more Cyrodiil.
=P

Aedaryl · May 2020

I'm curious to know what's the platform and server of the OP.

I bet is it console, there isn't a lot of magsorc in high MMR BG on PC, because people know that bringing sorcs is good for a group -> AoE burst of stamden and stamcro are better in a 4v4v4.

For pets, having them targettable save your life as much as it kills it.

When you are 1vX, or in smallscale, people kill the matriarch and you cannot heal yourself anymore - this is a huge problem.

Making pets untargetable would be a great, both for ennemies and pet sorcs.

For Mage Wrath, it's trash execute not worth slotting for multiple reasons :

1. The 20% threeshold is so low that people are already blocking if they are that low.

2. The travel time/animation is the longest of all executes : you cannot spam the execute to kill someone low HP with good efficiency like Executionner or killer's blade.

-> Mage Wrath being bad at excutioning already low HP people, the only good use for it is to make your burst hit harder by fake removing 20% of their HP if your burst brought them to 20%

This mean to point 3. The damage is so low.

You have better damage by putting elemental drain and adjust your build with more damage. Using your spammable instead will have a better impact on your burst.

4.Sorc burst being already extremely predictable, casting mage wrath before your burst is just asking to your ennemy to block heal it and so negate it.

Is wrath a problem for BG scoring ? Yes and I would like it to be nerfed into the ground so it can be reworked/buffed after and be worth slotting on a solo build.

killingspreeb16_ESO · May 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Honestly? I'd say either you're not very well informed or you're being dishonest.

I keep seeing sorcs trying to convince everyone that "the best magsorcs don't even use the Matriarch" and "the best sorcs don't even use Streak," and it's utter BS. I play with and against the best sorcs every day, (in fact most of them are in the BG guild that I'm in) and nearly all of them are using both skills.

So yeah, were going to have to go ahead and agree to disagree.

Pets are indeed a liability in Cyrodiil. You are missing a slot you dearly need, and the cost for the heal is very high. The pet also has a habit of flying into certain death. And if multiple people fight you, it'll get killed nonstop, completely neutering the build.
The problems lie within the battlegrounds mode, simple. It's a mediocre activity at best and you're giving it way too much attention.

I thought I made it pretty clear in the title of the thread that the post was specifically about BGs — your comment seems to be specifically about Cyrodiil so I'm not sure how it's relevant.

Hmhm, I wasn't very clear. When you try to think about a change, think how this would impact Cyrodiil, which is a more important game mode. Also, play more Cyrodiil.
=P

More important to you maybe not to everyone.

Is much better balance around BG(without ignore cyro/ic ofc)than cyro.

Cyro have to many IF to be balanced.

Where the fight happen open field or a place with many los.

You are fighthing alone vs few guys and then a zerg appears and just kill you all or your/their alliance come and totally change(for a 1vs X player even ruin)the battle.

And mostly important the lag,it's insane(for me) how people even want the balance for cyro when the game do not even work properly there most of the time.

BG is much better to use for balance it's also more competitive with mmr and if they ever add a ranked mode it would be even better.
Also they are no cp which mean that there no difference in power between player,not as much cp-pvp atleast.

You know how many people are there and how the map is designed,there is no random zerg that can appear out of nowhere,the lag is not a big problem in BG and so on.

As someone that loved cyro in the past i can't even play there for 1 hours anymore,the game in cyro has become a meme for all i care.

pieratsos · May 2020

Langeston wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

what if I tell you that the strongest magsorcs play without pets

Honestly? I'd say either you're not very well informed or you're being dishonest.

I keep seeing sorcs trying to convince everyone that "the best magsorcs don't even use the Matriarch" and "the best sorcs don't even use Streak," and it's utter BS. I play with and against the best sorcs every day, (in fact most of them are in the BG guild that I'm in) and nearly all of them are using both skills.

So yeah, were going to have to go ahead and agree to disagree.

Pets are indeed a liability in Cyrodiil. You are missing a slot you dearly need, and the cost for the heal is very high. The pet also has a habit of flying into certain death. And if multiple people fight you, it'll get killed nonstop, completely neutering the build.
The problems lie within the battlegrounds mode, simple. It's a mediocre activity at best and you're giving it way too much attention.

I thought I made it pretty clear in the title of the thread that the post was specifically about BGs — your comment seems to be specifically about Cyrodiil so I'm not sure how it's relevant.

Its relevant when u are judging skills. I mean u can talk about BGs all u want but if u are going to start a conversation about whether a skill is good or bad then all forms of PVP are relevant, not just whatever suits ur agenda.

Dracane · May 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not see many MagSorcs anymore after LA shields and pet damage got nerfed into the ground.
In Cyrodiil, Stam tanks hiding behind HeavyArmor while spamming DizzyingSwing are the real infestation.

Who even uses heavy Armour anymore lol.

People merely get confused because players in medium armor are just as tanky as heavy armor users nowadays.
There is no argument to use anything other than medium armor though. If you use light armor instead, you are brave, but foolish. If you use heavy armor instead, you just gimp yourself for a slight feeling of safety.

Langeston · May 2020

Aedaryl wrote: »

I'm curious to know what's the platform and server of the OP.

I bet is it console, there isn't a lot of magsorc in high MMR BG on PC, because people know that bringing sorcs is good for a group -> AoE burst of stamden and stamcro are better in a 4v4v4.

I'm on PC NA.

Obviously I don't have any hard numbers, but if I had to estimate off the top of my head I'd say that the two most prevalent classes in higher MMR BGs right now are Magsorcs and DKs, followed by Wardens & Templars. (Not necessarily in that order.) Then come Necros, with NBs being dead last by significant margin. (Magicka NBs are almost non-existent.) Looking at the roster of the BG guild I'm in would appear to back this up — magsorcs are clearly over-represented. (Nearly every guild member is in a BG right now, and most (if not all) of them play at high MMRs.)

This does seem to be in flux a bit though, and some BGs it seems like it's all Necros & Wardens. The only true constant is the severe lack of NBs.

Aedaryl wrote: »

For pets, having them targettable save your life as much as it kills it.

When you are 1vX, or in smallscale, people kill the matriarch and you cannot heal yourself anymore - this is a huge problem.

Making pets untargetable would be a great, both for ennemies and pet sorcs.

I think they'd have to reduce the healing on the Matriarch by a decent amount for that to be a good idea.

Aedaryl wrote: »

For Mage Wrath, it's trash execute not worth slotting for multiple reasons :

1. The 20% threeshold is so low that people are already blocking if they are that low.

2. The travel time/animation is the longest of all executes : you cannot spam the execute to kill someone low HP with good efficiency like Executionner or killer's blade.

-> Mage Wrath being bad at excutioning already low HP people, the only good use for it is to make your burst hit harder by fake removing 20% of their HP if your burst brought them to 20%

This mean to point 3. The damage is so low.

You have better damage by putting elemental drain and adjust your build with more damage. Using your spammable instead will have a better impact on your burst.

4.Sorc burst being already extremely predictable, casting mage wrath before your burst is just asking to your ennemy to block heal it and so negate it.

If it wasn't worth slotting, people wouldn't be slotting it — and in my experience that is simply not the case.

1. I feel like if you're casting it when your opponent is at or below 20% then you're doing it wrong — the 4 second window is there for a reason.
2. If you're timing your burst right, you shouldn't need to spam the execute as it isn't designed to work like Impale. I see Wrath as more of an "icing on the top of the cake" type skill. When Curse goes off (and ideally Frags) Wrath comes in and finishes up for you. The fact that those 3 skills are capable of proccing all at once within a single GCD is what makes them so strong — magblades for instance do not have anything that even comes close to that.
3. I feel like you're somewhat overselling the damage disparity between Mages Wrath and Impale. I just checked on my magsorc & magblade, (in identical gear) and the tooltips are 17.3k and 19.8k respectively. Personally I think Wrath's ease of use (in that it is far more forgiving with regards to cast timing and that it instantly procs when your opponent drops below 20%) makes up for the fact that it does somewhat less damage. Impale is rarely ever even slotted by magblades in BGs because of how unforgiving it is, whereas Wrath is slotted by nearly every Sorc I come across.
4. Isn't this what Streak is for? The most effective Sorcs I know use Streak to "seal the deal" on their burst combo.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Is wrath a problem for BG scoring ? Yes and I would like it to be nerfed into the ground so it can be reworked/buffed after and be worth slotting on a solo build.

I don't particularly care one way or another if the skill gets completely reworked or if they simply adjust the scoring in BGs so that the Sorc actually has to be the one to proc their own Wrath for it to count as their kill. (iCaliban also came up with an interesting option on the previous page that I think would work quite well too.) My desire isn't at all for Wrath to get nerfed, I just want to be able to burst someone down without worrying that by killing them I'm scoring a point for the opposing team (and losing 19 ultimate in the process.) It's difficult enough to get kills on a magblade right nows as it is, when you have multiple sorcs "debuffing" everyone in sight with Wrath it becomes downright impossible.

I also don't expect ZOS to do a thing about this, as they don't seem to be particularly interested in even a semblance of balance. I was just super annoyed and wanted to vent to someone besides my dog.

Langeston · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not see many MagSorcs anymore after LA shields and pet damage got nerfed into the ground.
In Cyrodiil, Stam tanks hiding behind HeavyArmor while spamming DizzyingSwing are the real infestation.

Who even uses heavy Armour anymore lol.

People merely get confused because players in medium armor are just as tanky as heavy armor users nowadays.
There is no argument to use anything other than medium armor though. If you use light armor instead, you are brave, but foolish. If you use heavy armor instead, you just gimp yourself for a slight feeling of safety.

Even magicka classes? How would that work? I can't imagine the loss of spell penetration, spell critical, magicka recovery, cost reduction, etc. would be worth it.

Dracane · May 2020

Langeston wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not see many MagSorcs anymore after LA shields and pet damage got nerfed into the ground.
In Cyrodiil, Stam tanks hiding behind HeavyArmor while spamming DizzyingSwing are the real infestation.

Who even uses heavy Armour anymore lol.

People merely get confused because players in medium armor are just as tanky as heavy armor users nowadays.
There is no argument to use anything other than medium armor though. If you use light armor instead, you are brave, but foolish. If you use heavy armor instead, you just gimp yourself for a slight feeling of safety.

Even magicka classes? How would that work? I can't imagine the loss of spell penetration, spell critical, magicka recovery, cost reduction, etc. would be worth it.

Don't play magicka classes. And if you do, make sure it is heavy armor or hope that you can hide behind teammates if using light armor.

Langeston · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not see many MagSorcs anymore after LA shields and pet damage got nerfed into the ground.
In Cyrodiil, Stam tanks hiding behind HeavyArmor while spamming DizzyingSwing are the real infestation.

Who even uses heavy Armour anymore lol.

People merely get confused because players in medium armor are just as tanky as heavy armor users nowadays.
There is no argument to use anything other than medium armor though. If you use light armor instead, you are brave, but foolish. If you use heavy armor instead, you just gimp yourself for a slight feeling of safety.

Even magicka classes? How would that work? I can't imagine the loss of spell penetration, spell critical, magicka recovery, cost reduction, etc. would be worth it.

Don't play magicka classes. And if you do, make sure it is heavy armor or hope that you can hide behind teammates if using light armor.

Ok. It seemed like you were saying Medium trumps Light regardless of build & I was like WTF? I understand what you're saying now though.

D0PAMINE · May 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

Sorc's pets suck in PvE as well.
Always in the way.

I'd love to make mine a non-pet sorc (minus Atro ult). I only use the scamp for the health bonus and stun. It gets in the way for me as well.

D0PAMINE · May 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

ZOS just need to change Mage's Wrath from kill stealing tool to something actually useful for solo player.

If they lowered the range of it first without making the skill non usable, so we can test it that way, i'd be ok with that.

Alucardo · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

Yet another heavy armor tank that whine when missing the kills.

Yes the famous magNB heavy armor tank running wild everywhere.

Well failing to get kill's on magblade is just sad with the strongest ranged execute in the game... Sounds really serious l2p.

I would prefer assassin's blade all day.

I'd prefer sorcs to have assassin's blade too, because that way I could actually dodge it instead of exploding mid dodge roll from wrath procs

Dracane · May 2020

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

Yet another heavy armor tank that whine when missing the kills.

Yes the famous magNB heavy armor tank running wild everywhere.

Well failing to get kill's on magblade is just sad with the strongest ranged execute in the game... Sounds really serious l2p.

I would prefer assassin's blade all day.

I'd prefer sorcs to have assassin's blade too, because that way I could actually dodge it instead of exploding mid dodge roll from wrath procs

That is only when the initial lightning strike somehow manages to hit you. Mage's Fury was so awesome and reliable when the strike was dodgeable. This was the only phase where I saw its value and loved to use it.

But come on, it is the easiest ability to dodge now.

Alucardo · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

Yet another heavy armor tank that whine when missing the kills.

Yes the famous magNB heavy armor tank running wild everywhere.

Well failing to get kill's on magblade is just sad with the strongest ranged execute in the game... Sounds really serious l2p.

I would prefer assassin's blade all day.

I'd prefer sorcs to have assassin's blade too, because that way I could actually dodge it instead of exploding mid dodge roll from wrath procs

That is only when the initial lightning strike somehow manages to hit you. Mage's Fury was so awesome and reliable when the strike was dodgeable. This was the only phase where I saw its value and loved to use it.

But come on, it is the easiest ability to dodge now.

Nah, it generally happens when a dot tick just puts me over the threshold while the wrath buff is still active on me. I assume anyway. Timed burst synchronises with mag sorc very well, so I don't think you'd like assassin's blade anyway. Play a magblade and you'll understand. It's so useless I don't even slot it anymore, whereas wrath/fury will always have its place... especially in BGs.

precambria · May 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

Yet another heavy armor tank that whine when missing the kills.

Yes the famous magNB heavy armor tank running wild everywhere.

Well failing to get kill's on magblade is just sad with the strongest ranged execute in the game... Sounds really serious l2p.

I would prefer assassin's blade all day.

I'd prefer sorcs to have assassin's blade too, because that way I could actually dodge it instead of exploding mid dodge roll from wrath procs

That is only when the initial lightning strike somehow manages to hit you. Mage's Fury was so awesome and reliable when the strike was dodgeable. This was the only phase where I saw its value and loved to use it.

But come on, it is the easiest ability to dodge now.

It's not easy to dodge at all you can't see a projectile and the majority of the time are already engaged, if it's just you and the sorc sure but we are not talking about duels here. Also the problem is not it being on you it's when the debuff is on your target which there is nothing you can do about that aside from stop dps in which case the sorc will still get the kill.