What's the reason behind the Transmutation Set nerf ?

Tranquilizer · May 2020

Hello,

maybe someone can enlighten me.

ZOS stated that they changed the crit resists and the impen value so that more armor traits are viable in pvp than impen, which I welcome. But the nerf to the Transmutation Set (1304 crit resist for 20 sec changed to 1400 crit resist for 5 sec) foils the changes to impen. In most organized pvp groups with dedicated healer you normally wear 7 impen, plus the buff from the Transmutation set so you're at about 3000 crit resist. And with the 20 sec duration the buff was up 100% of the time.

Now that the buff of Transmutation isn't viable anymore people will also wear 7 impen plus base resist, plus 15 cp in resistant, what also nets about 3000 crit resist, so ZOS goal of making more traits attractive doesn't work for group play, at most only for solo or small group play without a dedicated healer.

The only benefit is that the healer can now wear other support sets to compensate the healing nerf (Sanctuary set) or the physical/mag resistance nerf (Meritorious Service set)

So, why the Transmutation nerf ? Or am I overlooking something ?

Major_Lag · May 2020

How is it "not viable anymore"?

If the Transmutation user is diligent about always keeping up one or more HoTs ticking on their allies at all times (as they well should), the duration nerf is largely irrelevant - it will still proc within 1s of anyone taking any damage.

The only real "nerf" here is that with the new short duration, the buff will drop much quicker when you aren't taking damage, so there is a <1 second window when you are more vulnerable due to not having the buff.

TequilaFire · May 2020

1. The spreadsheet showed too many healers wearing Transmutation.
2. The set works must mess with it.

kojou · May 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

1. The spreadsheet showed too many healers wearing Transmutation.
2. The set works must mess with it.

This is exactly how they decide what to buff and nerf...

Tranquilizer · May 2020

Major_Lag wrote: »

How is it "not viable anymore"?

If the Transmutation user is diligent about always keeping up one or more HoTs ticking on their allies at all times (as they well should), the duration nerf is largely irrelevant - it will still proc within 1s of anyone taking any damage.

Maybe I misunderstood how the set works. I always thought the crit resist is applied when the player is hit by the first tick of the hot, if he's at full health or not. If I understand you correctly you assume the crit resist is applied when one of the ticks is actually healing the player for an amount >0. Then yes, it's not as bad as it looked to me.

The only real "nerf" here is that with the new short duration, the buff will drop much quicker when you aren't taking damage, so there is a <1 second window when you are more vulnerable due to not having the buff.

The shorter duration is a big downside. In a battle it's not always possible to hot everyone every 5 seconds, lag and abilities not firing are also a thing, and sometimes you have to spam other abilities than hots every 2 seconds.

Tranquilizer · May 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

1. The spreadsheet showed too many healers wearing Transmutation.
2. The set works must mess with it.

Haha, yes, guess you're right

NeillMcAttack · May 2020

It's was way over-tuned on release, and is way over-tuned today. And even after this nerf, it will still be in the top 3 PvP support sets. So the reason should be obvious really.

Major_Lag · May 2020

Tranquilizer wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

How is it "not viable anymore"?

If the Transmutation user is diligent about always keeping up one or more HoTs ticking on their allies at all times (as they well should), the duration nerf is largely irrelevant - it will still proc within 1s of anyone taking any damage.

Maybe I misunderstood how the set works. I always thought the crit resist is applied when the player is hit by the first tick of the hot, if he's at full health or not. If I understand you correctly you assume the crit resist is applied when one of the ticks is actually healing the player for an amount >0. Then yes, it's not as bad as it looked to me.

Yeah, the buff is only applied when a HoT tick actually heals the target. Overhealing does not proc it.

(EDIT for clarification: this is also why some Transmutation users use a setup with slightly more HP on backbar - it's so that they can force it to proc on themselves on demand, instead of needing to wait to take damage.)

Tranquilizer wrote: »

The shorter duration is a big downside. In a battle it's not always possible to hot everyone every 5 seconds, lag and abilities not firing are also a thing, and sometimes you have to spam other abilities than hots every 2 seconds.

Why every 5 seconds?

A lot of HoTs which also heal allies have a much longer duration: both Echoing Vigor and Radiating Regen are 10 seconds long, other HoTs (mostly class abilities) are about the same or even longer.
Only a small handful of strong HoTs have 6 seconds or less duration - and in a group healing context you would be usually supplementing those with other longer duration HoTs, exactly for the reason you have stated.

Also, in most combat situations, letting your HoTs drop for more than 1-2 seconds is a big no-no to begin with in any case.
And if you are playing in such extreme lag as to be unable to apply heals or buffs, then you have much bigger problems to be worrying about anyhow.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

It's was way over-tuned on release, and is way over-tuned today. And even after this nerf, it will still be in the top 3 PvP support sets. So the reason should be obvious really.

Useful does not mean overtuned.

That's the type of thinking that gets us the current "race to the bottom" approach toward balancing that destroys good sets and gives us nothing to replace them with.

By that logic, sets like Jorvuld's, Gossamer, and Olorime's have also got to get nerfed because they're easy to use and bestow important group benefits.

Or how about we just, you know, don't do that. Transmutation wasn't damaging PvP and it certainly wasn't responsible for the tank meta. Sets should be nerfed as a last resort and only when there is an obvious problem that can be solved in no other way. Those criteria didn't apply to Transmutation and, as such, it should have been left alone.

MincVinyl · May 2020

Tranquilizer wrote: »

Hello,

maybe someone can enlighten me.

ZOS stated that they changed the crit resists and the impen value so that more armor traits are viable in pvp than impen, which I welcome. But the nerf to the Transmutation Set (1304 crit resist for 20 sec changed to 1400 crit resist for 5 sec) foils the changes to impen. In most organized pvp groups with dedicated healer you normally wear 7 impen, plus the buff from the Transmutation set so you're at about 3000 crit resist. And with the 20 sec duration the buff was up 100% of the time.

Now that the buff of Transmutation isn't viable anymore people will also wear 7 impen plus base resist, plus 15 cp in resistant, what also nets about 3000 crit resist, so ZOS goal of making more traits attractive doesn't work for group play, at most only for solo or small group play without a dedicated healer.

The only benefit is that the healer can now wear other support sets to compensate the healing nerf (Sanctuary set) or the physical/mag resistance nerf (Meritorious Service set)

So, why the Transmutation nerf ? Or am I overlooking something ?

This change buffs transmutation's bonus. Yeah you wont be able to have it with 100% uptime on every single player in your 48 man raid, but it will still be used by small to large man groups.

Zos letting people just run any trait will benefit large zergs more if anything since pugs wearing thrown together gear will generally be tankier with the crit resist.

Also, why do you not like solo or small man gameplay? Imo the game has been heavily geared towards winning by numbers, zos has even come out and said that they want there to be a very small gap between high apm and low apm players. Sets like transmutation heavily favor giant ball groups with no counterplay available due to 100% uptime. Now trans is more potent, but opens burst windows, so there is actually a way to counter a 48 man raid trying to heal one person form dying. A big issue with the game in general when catering to these larger groups is that they would be catering directly into the root cause of lag. Lag doesn't come from the small man group healers giving heals to their 4 friends that are nearby. Lag is coming from the healer doing the same action as the small man healer, but affecting 48+ players.

Iskiab · May 2020

Just be a templar. Ritual applies transmutation, if you’re good about recasting it the duration isn’t an issue.

Somnilux · May 2020

Its very simple. They changed the item budget on Impenetrable, and therefore they had to adjust this set. Instead of adjusting the power, they adjusted the uptime, so the proc has the same damage effectiveness but one person can no longer keep it up on a 24 man group.

Nothing more, nothing less.