ZOS the tank problem comes from % mitigation sources, not armor.

Foto1 · April 2020

Galarthor wrote: »

We need more active defenses. And Armor Types should play a major role in your capabilities, something along the lines of this (with X and Y being sufficiently large - e.g. 25%):

Light Armor:
- Increase Magic damage by X% per piece of Light Armor
- Increase Size of Shields and Burst heals by Y% per piece of Light Armor (both are essentially a form of a Burst Heal)
- Decrease Cost of magicka abilities by Z% per piece of Light Armor

Medium Armor
- Increase Physical damage X% per piece of Medium Armor
- Increase healing done by HoTs by Y% per piece of Medium Armor
- Decrease Cost of Stamina abilities Z% per piece of Medium Armor

Heavy Armor
- Decrease Damage dealt by 2*X% per piece of Heavy Armor
- Decrease Damage taken Y% per piece of Heavy Armor
- Increase Healing Received by Y%per piece of Heavy Armor
- Decrease Cost of Blocking by W% per piece of Heavy Armor

This will end current tank meta. You can still play a tank, but you are not going to deal tons of damage anymore. No matter the set you are wearing (unless sets are broken). It also gives back identity to the different armor types and builds.

Another idea:
Make dodge cost increase exponentially in a way that the first 2 dodge rolls within 4 seconds of each other cost the same as they do now, but making any dodge rolls beyond that sharply increase in cost. Medium Armor in turn lows the debuff via medium armor passives, so that they can dodge as much as they currently do on live.

That way there won't be another perma-dodge meta, and PvE and magicka won't really be affected b/c you can still do your occasional dodge rolls without having to stack heavily into stamina.

Why light armor - burst heal, but medium armor hot? Its not far.
Why light armor - only magicka damage? What about fire and frost damage?

scottii · April 2020

If you think its bad now, or even in previous patches, wait until Mist Form becomes a toggle. Instant 75% damage reduction, plus whatever else you have.

lucky_Sage · April 2020

There real issue is cp non cp not really super tanky high dmg builds. Cp allows everyone to have all not specialize like it should.
Builds actually hit harder in non cp

MarzAttakz · April 2020

OP, could you please include movement based penalties/bonuses based on pieces worn too?

Light Armor: increase movement speed by x% (lowest mitigation + fastest movement, kite to function)
Medium Armor: reduces cost of dodge roll by x% (base line mitigation + movement, dodge roll is effectively 100% mitigation)
Heavy Armor: reduces movement speed by x% (highest mitigation + slowest movement)

Alternatively reduce maximum movement speeds, you should NOT be able to move faster than skills period.

John_Falstaff · April 2020

MarzAttakz wrote: »

OP, could you please include movement based penalties/bonuses based on pieces worn too?

Light Armor: increase movement speed by x% (lowest mitigation + fastest movement, kite to function)
Medium Armor: reduces cost of dodge roll by x% (base line mitigation + movement, dodge roll is effectively 100% mitigation)
Heavy Armor: reduces movement speed by x% (highest mitigation + slowest movement)

Alternatively reduce maximum movement speeds, you should NOT be able to move faster than skills period.

Long as it'll be part of battle spirit and not core game, can arrange any kind of bordello in PvP, that's what I say. Because it'll cripple PvE tanking.

Alucardo · April 2020

Totally agree. People are still going to be back barring potentates, waving resto ults around and roleplay as a turtle. What you're doing is making people who don't play like a turtle even worse, pigeonholing them into maximising resistances even more. You say you want variation, but blanket nerfs like this aren't how you go about it.

Brrrofski · April 2020

iaminc wrote: »

Just scrap PvP in general 😉

Seriously though , the OP is exactly right , unbelievable how the devs can’t see it.

Limit healing in groups as well , I’m sure the server could benefit from not having to calculate x amount of rapid regen ticks , hots and self heals every 5 secs.

And only allow healing to your group. The amount of times I'll be fighting someone/people and some healbot is running around just spamming heals without even knowing where it's going or who he's healing.

Alucardo · April 2020

Brrrofski wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Just scrap PvP in general 😉

Seriously though , the OP is exactly right , unbelievable how the devs can’t see it.

Limit healing in groups as well , I’m sure the server could benefit from not having to calculate x amount of rapid regen ticks , hots and self heals every 5 secs.

And only allow healing to your group. The amount of times I'll be fighting someone/people and some healbot is running around just spamming heals without even knowing where it's going or who he's healing.

Also this. Off heals are a big problem. It gets to the point where you waste time trying to locate the healer in a group because they are literally keeping everyone afloat just by pumping out heals. As soon as the healer goes down you find the rest of them fall almost immediately afterwards. Self healing was never a problem.

Suligost · April 2020

Nobody in this game is rly tough, its matter of 1-3k difference (on your main spammable), all the def comes from absurd healing and block - end of story, smash healing to the ground so it stop existing in pvp and problem of tanks will disapear (also shouldnt stack from max that or dmg - base amounts only).

Healers should matter BUT, healing should be targeted, no aoe brainwashed running around.

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

Nobody in this game is rly tough, its matter of 1-3k difference (on your main spammable), all the def comes from absurd healing and block - end of story, smash healing to the ground so it stop existing in pvp and problem of tanks will disapear (also shouldnt stack from max that or dmg - base amounts only).

Healers should matter BUT, healing should be targeted, no aoe brainwashed running around.

@Suligost
You are terribly misinformed my friend.
Self-healing per se is not the problem but healing received from other sources/allies is. But the underlying cause to tankiness that the heals added on top of is, the reliance on %-based damage mitigation like Major & Minor Protection and also Major (not so much) and Minor Maim.

Can you imagine? You deal x dmg to an enemy player, your damage gets reduced by 30% and 8% alone from Major&Minor Protection, then your dmg gets debuffed even further by 15% through Minor Maim. Since debuffs iirc are calculated multiplicatively, then your damage would've been reduced by a whopping ~45%.
So by going with your example, a player dealing 3k dmg would have their dmg reduced to ~1.6k. And if you are a bursty build in no-CP, your arbitrary damage of 6k would be reduced to ~3.3k PASSIVELY from just those %-based buffs alone.
This Major and Minor %-based buff mechanics introduced by ZOS waay back is nonsensical but since it's here to stay, just adjust it in Battle Spirit so that it won't affect PvE.

I have a few suggestions in my thread regarding this issue. Would appreciate it if you have a look and put some thoughts/comments in it especially regarding my suggestions in that thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521939/so-is-everyone-going-to-ignore-battle-spirit-changes-which-is-uncalled-for/p1

Suligost · April 2020

No im not, I main pvp and see differerances when I stack mitigation with 10% grim or necro, 15 maim, 30 major and its like from 6k (lowest number of dizz is 7k on heavy armor) dizz to 3k while heals can do way more. Its nothing, its helpfull but heals give more. Dark deal on crit even in pvp 8k+ (already dizz overheald) + shields, not to mention vigor etc, etc, etc - heals makes you tougher and at same provide dmg since they scale of stacking max magicka or dmg.

Also pvp is full of glasses and tanks (talking ofcorse about no-cp) or off-tanks are rare.

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

No im not, I main pvp and see differerances when I stack mitigation with 10% grim or necro, 15 maim, 30 major and its like from 6k (lowest number of dizz is 7k on heavy armor) dizz to 3k while heals can do way more. Its nothing, its helpfull but heals give more. Dark deal on crit even in pvp 8k+ (already dizz overheald) + shields, not to mention vigor etc, etc, etc - heals makes you tougher and at same provide dmg since they scale of stacking max magicka or dmg.

Also pvp is full of glasses and tanks (talking ofcorse about no-cp) or off-tanks are rare.

@Suligost
Since you play no-CP religiously, you would know there isn't any 'unkillable tanks' around. It's unheard of in no-CP.
Yes you can argue heals do more but if they don't have the %-based dmg mitigations to begin with, those heals would not be so OP like you claimed since the healer will eventually run out of resources to heal themselves trying to soak the dmg you dealt and breakfree/purge, giving you the opportunity to kill them.
Vigour is not that strong tbh. It helps when the user kites the enemies and that's skilful play. Just tie them down whenever you're fighting one if that's where your problem comes from.

No offense intended but you seem new to the game and PvP in particular. Do you know how % buffs/debuffs work in this game?

Suligost · April 2020

Unkillable tank cant kill you either... but never meant unkillable tank without absurd healing (you mean ofcorse 1vsX not 1vs1), so again - healing problem not def. Real-pure tank will die at some point as he doesnt have endless resources to spam. Also I dont consider kite/running away, overheal "skill" but perfect timing in block for 1 sec/avoiding ultimates/killing in a fight - spamming is not skill it just endless resources.

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

Unkillable tank cant kill you either... but never meant unkillable tank without absurd healing (you mean ofcorse 1vsX not 1vs1), so again - healing problem not def. Real-pure tank will die at some point as he doesnt have endless resources to spam. Also I dont consider kite/running away, overheal "skill" but perfect timing in block for 1 sec/avoiding ultimates/killing in a fight - spamming is not skill it just endless resources.

@Suligost
Maybe in CP, but not in no-CP because you absolutely can run out of resources in a prolonged fight. Those players don't have endless resources.
The reason why they're kiting (circling around you without you successfully landing a hit to them) is to regenerate resources before finally landing a successful and lethal combo killing you off.

Like I said, I think you're new to the game and especially PvP. It seems you don't understand it as a whole yet so I suggest you familiarise with it first.

Galarthor · April 2020

Foto1 wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

We need more active defenses. And Armor Types should play a major role in your capabilities, something along the lines of this (with X and Y being sufficiently large - e.g. 25%):

Light Armor:
- Increase Magic damage by X% per piece of Light Armor
- Increase Size of Shields and Burst heals by Y% per piece of Light Armor (both are essentially a form of a Burst Heal)
- Decrease Cost of magicka abilities by Z% per piece of Light Armor

Medium Armor
- Increase Physical damage X% per piece of Medium Armor
- Increase healing done by HoTs by Y% per piece of Medium Armor
- Decrease Cost of Stamina abilities Z% per piece of Medium Armor

Heavy Armor
- Decrease Damage dealt by 2*X% per piece of Heavy Armor
- Decrease Damage taken Y% per piece of Heavy Armor
- Increase Healing Received by Y%per piece of Heavy Armor
- Decrease Cost of Blocking by W% per piece of Heavy Armor

This will end current tank meta. You can still play a tank, but you are not going to deal tons of damage anymore. No matter the set you are wearing (unless sets are broken). It also gives back identity to the different armor types and builds.

Another idea:
Make dodge cost increase exponentially in a way that the first 2 dodge rolls within 4 seconds of each other cost the same as they do now, but making any dodge rolls beyond that sharply increase in cost. Medium Armor in turn lows the debuff via medium armor passives, so that they can dodge as much as they currently do on live.

That way there won't be another perma-dodge meta, and PvE and magicka won't really be affected b/c you can still do your occasional dodge rolls without having to stack heavily into stamina.

Why light armor - burst heal, but medium armor hot? Its not far.
Why light armor - only magicka damage? What about fire and frost damage?

1) Why burst heal on Light Armor? B/c Healers run Light Armor and stamina builds generally use HoTs.
2) Bad wording on my part. I mean all the usual stuff. Light Armor gets Magic damage & all Elements. Stamina their counterparts.

Galarthor · April 2020

Brrrofski wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Just scrap PvP in general 😉

Seriously though , the OP is exactly right , unbelievable how the devs can’t see it.

Limit healing in groups as well , I’m sure the server could benefit from not having to calculate x amount of rapid regen ticks , hots and self heals every 5 secs.

And only allow healing to your group. The amount of times I'll be fighting someone/people and some healbot is running around just spamming heals without even knowing where it's going or who he's healing.

HELL NO!!!

That means we will have even more zergs running around. Which means even more lag. Also even more people get affected by Purge etc. Which again means even more lag.

Heals should be primarily single target. That reduces Cross-Healing and lag. AoEs (both damage and healing) are what's mostly killing the performance. AoE heals should only rarely be used due to either their ineffectiveness or high cost!

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2020

I always thought that problems comes from lag & server performance.

People build for tankyness because of the skill combos & burst combos don't work in lag. Also, roll dodge does not work great too. High health pool & defence is the only way for many to survive longer as lag & de-syncs do not allow you to react to things fast enough.

^ this at least my guess. More people would run less tanky builds if they server performance was better.

kalunte · April 2020

This game also lack of a debuff that would apply on healing Done. we have, dmg done reduce, dmg taken reduced, healing done boost, healing taken boost, but on the other hand we have dmg done boost, dmg taken boost, healing taken reduce nut nothing to healing Done!

beside that:
major maim does 30% dmg done reduce while major berserk does 25%
minor maim does 15% / minor berserk does 8%
major vunerability being way less accessible than major prot (both at 30% tho).
minor defile 15% / minor vitality 8%
both minor/major mending have no counter at all.

i'd like to talk longer about that but lack of will. see you later

Galarthor · April 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I always thought that problems comes from lag & server performance.

People build for tankyness because of the skill combos & burst combos don't work in lag. Also, roll dodge does not work great too. High health pool & defence is the only way for many to survive longer as lag & de-syncs do not allow you to react to things fast enough.

^ this at least my guess. More people would run less tanky builds if they server performance was better.

They build for tankiness b/c on stamina builds you can have both: tankiness and high (burst) damage.
Why choose if you can have both?

And dodge rolls are one of the last things that work in lag. You can even dodge the attacks AFTER the animation hits you (if lags is severe enough). That won't work with Shields, Heals, or Cloak. Yet another reason why stamina fares so much better in PvP.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka · April 2020

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wheem_ESO · April 2020

scottii wrote: »

If you think its bad now, or even in previous patches, wait until Mist Form becomes a toggle. Instant 75% damage reduction, plus whatever else you have.

People have been able to "spam" Mist Form for years, achieving that exact same 75% damage reduction. Yet, what really makes Mist Form users survivable is the mobility, not the damage reduction. Being able to hug LOS and take 0 damage is better than twiddling your thumbs out in the open and still taking 25%. Stamina builds utilizing 1h/shield blocking, or the impending Well-Fitted Medium Armor dodge spam are going to be a lot more survivable than Magicka trying to use Mist Form. At least in part because they can actually heal + be healed while using their defense.

MincVinyl · April 2020

If you want to see where "tankiness" is coming from currently there are two main sources
______________________________

random % mit buffs that are being carelessly thrown around instead of following the major/minor way to balance
- Where this can be seen is with live brpdw, which should be changed to minor prot and berserk instead of adding another unique buff
- Necro which has access to several unique % modifiers that other classes cannot compete with. Deaden pain should be changed to minor prot with a longer duration per corpse and lose the random bonus 3%. Spirit should be changed to something like minor evasion to go with the ghost theme if that tickles your fancy. These are just the % mit bonuses too. I give it another half year or so before zos tones necro down, less players will want to buy the new class if it is *** talked all the time if it was bad.
- Sets that can stack: swift, potentates, brpdw, heartland, valiant all will have unique forms of mit thrown in them which will all be bis due to there being no counterplay available. Resists are just becoming a joke now with players easily reaching 20k pen on your average pvp build with high uptime
Cross healing between players
- If you have a chance play bgs until your toon hits high mmr and you will notice clear differences between matches with all mostly stam players and ones with more mag players. Due to vigor being reduced to a self heal we have already seen what gutting cross healing can do. In those stam matches players are almost always dependent on their own skill to survive, but in a bg with even one healer on the team you will notice there are constant stalemates of people not being able to kill each other. The reason echoing(which is mathematically less hps than unmorphed vigor) does so little compared to resolving is because it is balanced to have a group of 6+ people using it.
- The same heals are used by every single person and stack. Back in the day over time effects did not stack which lead to out of class options being less viable the larger and larger your group got. Which meant you cant have a group of all mag toons using only the flavor of the month hot. Either players would branch out to other morphs or use class options, which gave a more diverse combat experience. As the game stands right now you can almost guess every morph that is going to be on someone's bar because there is no reason to go with whatever isn't BiS.

Kadoin · April 2020

Fianlly the forums are seeing the light...why this was never talked about 3 years ago I have no idea. ZOS will NOT nerf anyone with resistance and healing changes that is laughing in the hammer DoT ticks.

katorga · April 2020

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Suligost wrote: »

Nobody in this game is rly tough, its matter of 1-3k difference (on your main spammable), all the def comes from absurd healing and block - end of story, smash healing to the ground so it stop existing in pvp and problem of tanks will disapear (also shouldnt stack from max that or dmg - base amounts only).

Healers should matter BUT, healing should be targeted, no aoe brainwashed running around.

@Suligost
You are terribly misinformed my friend.
Self-healing per se is not the problem but healing received from other sources/allies is. But the underlying cause to tankiness that the heals added on top of is, the reliance on %-based damage mitigation like Major & Minor Protection and also Major (not so much) and Minor Maim.

Can you imagine? You deal x dmg to an enemy player, your damage gets reduced by 30% and 8% alone from Major&Minor Protection, then your dmg gets debuffed even further by 15% through Minor Maim. Since debuffs iirc are calculated multiplicatively, then your damage would've been reduced by a whopping ~45%.
So by going with your example, a player dealing 3k dmg would have their dmg reduced to ~1.6k. And if you are a bursty build in no-CP, your arbitrary damage of 6k would be reduced to ~3.3k PASSIVELY from just those %-based buffs alone.
This Major and Minor %-based buff mechanics introduced by ZOS waay back is nonsensical but since it's here to stay, just adjust it in Battle Spirit so that it won't affect PvE.

I have a few suggestions in my thread regarding this issue. Would appreciate it if you have a look and put some thoughts/comments in it especially regarding my suggestions in that thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521939/so-is-everyone-going-to-ignore-battle-spirit-changes-which-is-uncalled-for/p1

"The problem is healing received from other sources/allies" Sheesh. It is a group game.

The easiest way to achieve what you are looking for is to get rid of the extra 5K health you get in pvp.

The other way is to intelligenty design morphs so that a skill gets a healing OR a damage morph, or a Tanking OR a healing morph. That way you force a healer to heal. A tank to tank, or a dps to dps, not all at the same time.

leepalmer95 · April 2020

Galarthor wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I always thought that problems comes from lag & server performance.

People build for tankyness because of the skill combos & burst combos don't work in lag. Also, roll dodge does not work great too. High health pool & defence is the only way for many to survive longer as lag & de-syncs do not allow you to react to things fast enough.

^ this at least my guess. More people would run less tanky builds if they server performance was better.

They build for tankiness b/c on stamina builds you can have both: tankiness and high (burst) damage.
Why choose if you can have both?

And dodge rolls are one of the last things that work in lag. You can even dodge the attacks AFTER the animation hits you (if lags is severe enough). That won't work with Shields, Heals, or Cloak. Yet another reason why stamina fares so much better in PvP.

[snip] Where do you think all the off healing and main healing comes from? Because it's not stamina.

I'll tell you what stamina can't do. They can't use a 15k-20k burst heal in pvp like magicka can.

[Edit for bait.]

Iron_Blurr · April 2020

This problem showed up when they nerfed the counters to Tank builds. They nerfed oblivion damage(glad they did) they nerfed bleed builds and they nerfed or removed a lot of sources of defile.

The results?
Now they have to basically defile everyone in cyrodil(-10% healing done) because healing is too powerful. Well maybe if they didnt remove defiles from everything players would be able to lower a targets healing on their own.

Maybe if they didn't nerf bleed builds armor wouldn't be an issue because you could have a way to bypass armor.

Every action has consequences. When you nerf the counters to tank builds they become an issue. The solution is to buff or create counters to tank builds. These counters need to have extra effectiveness against tank builds but neutral or less effectiveness against regular builds to keep them balanced.
The solution is NOT to nerf monster set stat lines from ~3k resistance to ~1500 resistance. That is only a ~2% nerf to damage mitigation. Do you really think that tiny nerf is going to make a difference to anyone but pve tank mains that just had all their monster sets nerfed for the sake of Pvp??

Kadoin · April 2020

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

This problem showed up when they nerfed the counters to Tank builds. They nerfed oblivion damage(glad they did) they nerfed bleed builds and they nerfed or removed a lot of sources of defile.

The results?
Now they have to basically defile everyone in cyrodil(-10% healing done) because healing is too powerful. Well maybe if they didnt remove defiles from everything players would be able to lower a targets healing on their own.

Maybe if they didn't nerf bleed builds armor wouldn't be an issue because you could have a way to bypass armor.

Every action has consequences. When you nerf the counters to tank builds they become an issue. The solution is to buff or create counters to tank builds. These counters need to have extra effectiveness against tank builds but neutral or less effectiveness against regular builds to keep them balanced.
The solution is NOT to nerf monster set stat lines from ~3k resistance to ~1500 resistance. That is only a ~2% nerf to damage mitigation. Do you really think that tiny nerf is going to make a difference to anyone but pve tank mains that just had all their monster sets nerfed for the sake of Pvp??

People keep saying this, but all that adding it back would do is make stam even stronger v. mag. That's literally it. When you propose a magicka variant of bleed, that cannot be absorbed, you can then come back and suggest bleeds should ignore armor again. Until then, lol no.

Also, defile is still in the game, but it means nothing when defile cuts your healing to 5K HP/s and you are taking only 1-2k damage from a zerg every second because of stacked damage reduction and knowing how to make use of the game's priority on damage and healing effects.

As for armor sets granting resistance being nerfed, yes it is actually a good thing. When the majority of players run either bloodspawn or 2x resistance pieces over any other set combination, then there is a problem. 2x 1 piece monster gives more resistance than the 5 piece of Fortified Brass on live. Bloodspawn with almost zero downtime in a real fight also gives more resistance than Brass' 5-piece.

Even without attempting to nerf tanks, those things are still OP; that's why nearly everyone is using them. ZOS should not backtrack on those changes IMO. The noise threads are because those changes will partially hurt those builds ZOS wants to target. The only problem is that without touching damage reduction, the builds that use %-reduction will be far stronger than anyone else in performance when you look at them relative to what is on live.

In fact all my builds will get buffed tremendously through the relative changes in power between builds if ZOS keeps the changes as they are. I literally won't be affected at all, esp. in CP.

MincVinyl · April 2020

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

This problem showed up when they nerfed the counters to Tank builds. They nerfed oblivion damage(glad they did) they nerfed bleed builds and they nerfed or removed a lot of sources of defile.

The results?
Now they have to basically defile everyone in cyrodil(-10% healing done) because healing is too powerful. Well maybe if they didnt remove defiles from everything players would be able to lower a targets healing on their own.

Maybe if they didn't nerf bleed builds armor wouldn't be an issue because you could have a way to bypass armor.

Every action has consequences. When you nerf the counters to tank builds they become an issue. The solution is to buff or create counters to tank builds. These counters need to have extra effectiveness against tank builds but neutral or less effectiveness against regular builds to keep them balanced.
The solution is NOT to nerf monster set stat lines from ~3k resistance to ~1500 resistance. That is only a ~2% nerf to damage mitigation. Do you really think that tiny nerf is going to make a difference to anyone but pve tank mains that just had all their monster sets nerfed for the sake of Pvp??

See the issue with how defile/bleeds/oblivion all had was that they are a quick and simple solution to a tanky target, but not the problem with groups. Essentially none of these are a pinpoint solution to the problem, you are just suggesting more blanket solutions. One tank player is not the issue, the issue is balls of players being able to stack the bis heal of the month.

We want to search for a solution that

Reduces lag
Favors skilled combat rather than using suffocation by numbers

If you wanted to bring back old bleeds, yeah they killed tanky targets, but then at the same time they were as effective against normal players so we used to have everyone running master dw axes and 2h axe bleed. For the majority of players this offered almost no counterplay unless you were/had a dedicated purge bot. Which only ball groups can afford. Bleeds would have to be made to exponentially be more powerful the higher your resists.

Defiles were the same way, where a solo player tank or not would just be run down with no counterplay against ball groups who can easily counterplay them.

Oblivion damage as well, these literally are designed to kill tanky targets and squishy targets at the same rate

Dots are in essence had the same problem during the previous year's meta. Even as a templar or warden there was little you could do against 20 dots stacked on you. You could have 20 toddlers running dot defile builds and they would likely still have a similar damage output. In a player versus player game if individual player's skill isn't involved what is the point?

I would agree that limiting heals to only group members would be a better solution than reducing healing taken by 10%, but i believe going back to non stacking dots/hots would work much better to fix zerg heal spam, lag, Small man gameplay, class/ability diversity. Note either of these changes could be done through battlespirit.

As mentioned by alot of players the random % mit buffs that are not standardized to the major/minor are too prevalent now, with necro being the worst contender. Brpdw and Deaden pain are both too potent, there is no reason a side effect of an ability should provide the equivalent of 20k resists that can't be penned or countered. To get major prot you should have to jump through hoops to get it, if someone wants to achieve 80%-100% uptime like how necro does now you should have to give up a lot.