mfcostacampos wrote: »

Kawiki wrote: »

I voted for Cold Harbour but I'd like to see more guidance for new players. I just started playing (well since the first week after release, hated the game then...). It was very confusing starting in Vvardenfell. It wasn't until I found a very helpful post on these forums on the correct order that I realized I did not start the story in the correct order.

I agree and felt the same way starting in Elsweyr.
I'd much rather start in Coldharbour and be able to follow the story properly. Just feels very haphazard to teleport myself out of a starting area to be able to play the game in a logical order.

I agree, I started the game when Summerset came out and started there, it did feel like something was not correct. I read a few posts and ran my toon to the original start zone which was not easy as I had no wayshrines taking boats along the way. It just felt like a slap in the face really considering the time that ZoS has taken to make it a great game it was a glaring oversight.

Really Zenimax, no reply..?
Wow.

With Greymoor now on the PTS, thought it could be useful to bring this back to life.
Let's make ourselves heard!

As ZOS looks to market the new chapters to new players, I doubt their format is going to change. And as these new chapters are intended to cater to new players, I don't think we're ever going to see them as more challenging overland content either. Once Greymoor launches, brace yourself for more "Game is too easy" posts on the forums (insert Ned Stark meme here).

I recall one day in Northern Elsweyr overland questing one guy saw my 810 CP and whispered me: "What are you doing in a starting zone?" Obviously a new player, I took the time to explain to him that this game doesn't really have starting zones, just current chapter tutorials. And that he was free to go to whichever zone he wanted right from that start.

I would prefer that ZOS kept it to just one single starting tutorial zone, or even the option of the selecting one from what's already been created. This way new chapters overland zones can be made with more difficulty in mind and no longer cater to the new players. I'm not complaining about new players, I just think there's already plenty of content for the new player to learn the questing basics in.

But working your way up to more difficult zones seems to be the old mentality of MMOs these days. Even the all mighty WoW is moving away from that format. I won't complain if ZOS keeps it the way they have it now, I'd just prefer the feeling of progression, but a preference is all that it is for me.

Iccotak wrote: »

what I want to return to the game - give players this original epic opening that sets the tone of the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6070A_hi8

This is so memorable....i remembered this opening scene....legendary narrative voice

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm very much in favor of a choose-your-own-adventure. I hesitated buying Elsweyr since I liked to keep the same intro (and I didn't even get a chance to get the normal one since you can only get the game with Morrowind nowadays)

But I have to get Greymoor, so I got Elsweyr for cheap. Fun new tutorial, but I do kinda miss Naryu and Eoki.

I really think the best option is a choice. I favor a screen that pops up when you select "Create character"


That way you're still giving options, but the new players are able to go where they want. And as a bonus, this is even advertising the content you don't have.

This sounds perfect!

This: "Always start with 'Cold Shriven in Cold Harbour' (Main Quest)" should be the default.

mfcostacampos wrote: »

I know this is a very debated topic, but I've never seen a poll about it.
Hopefully if this gets enough answers it will get enough attention? Or maybe I'm just being naive.

I voted for newest but with a caveat.

Before you leave the tutorial - the exit to it should have an option for:
- head out that door there
- board this caravan to the land of your people (go to your faction start)
- talk this nice harmless lady in the hooded robe here where absolutely nothing bad will happen (main story)


But I think the first thing to do SHOULD be the most recent tutorial because that tutorial is often better designed than one older than it when it comes to teaching new players skills like "what is a heavy attack" and "how do you block".

- For players that skip the tutorial... basically put them in the 'last room' with those above choices.

I'm quite new so only know the Elseweyr start.

Only think I find weird is that the intro sends you to Abnur Tharn immediately.
Once you start playing there's also the benefactor/Cold Shriven part where you meet Arbnur again.

I would very much like an option where to start so i can vary it for my characters.

I'd like to be able to choose, provided it's a new character on an existing account. For absolute new players, they should start in Coldharbour and learn the ropes. A few friends have joined this game recently and they're immediately saying they're overwhelmed by the content. The content needs to be presented in a non-intrusive way. (Prologues, I'm looking at you.)

I don't think it's so much where they start as it is what to start on. If I start in Morrowind or wherever, I don't know what my priorities as a player. It's just here's a new expansion. Oh and by the way, good luck sorting out the 6 years of content thrown at you by quest givers.

For the main story content, they could better integrate that with the current chapter. Have the fighter's guild be in the new expansion, same with NPCs and quest locations. That way people are getting to the newest content early without sacrificing necessary prerequisites.

I've been thinking about continuity a lot lately and want to make an important point.
Everyone I've seen discussing the tutorial talks about the newcomer experience and the old player experience. Few address the retention problem from the standpoint of RETURNING players.

As a returning player who left after Summerset I have missed a few DLCs and/or chapters. I want to experience the full game, particularly the chapters I missed when I left.

I want to go back and play the game from the beginning because I know that the game has a beginning. I'm not here for the flashy gotcha of whatever the new chapter is. I haven't even looked at greymoor's features yet, and it comes out next month.

All I want is to be able to play the game with a sense of continuity. I want to stop regretting deleting my old characters to get a fresh start with Morrowind. I want to be allowed to play the game- and I do not want to have to meta-game and actively avoid playing parts of the game to get that experience.

Realistically, the new chapters need to be incorporated into the existing game better. The company should have plotted the game out so that each chapter did not rely on the chapter before it. If you are going for an experience where each player can jump into a different part of the story, thats fine; but design the story to work that way.
If things have a chronological order, then players should at the least be allowed to follow that chronological order. This is why I say give me an option.

I know that most people want to play the new shiny content and I do not want to take that away from them. However, since the narrative that creates is contradictory and therefore kinda silly, players should get to choose whether they want that.

Starting with the main quest is the better option from a narrative perspective. However, not everyone is here for the narrative.
But not having the option is only driving away those people who ARE here for the narrative.
For anyone who came to ESO for the narrative their options are;

1. meta-game and avoid content in order to play from the beginning and see the actual narrative. This involves hours of looking up readmes and guides and forcing oneself to not play naturally, stay inside very specific boundaries and not explore interesting hooks because they are outside of the designated boundaries and can break immersion - a style of gameplay that itself breaks immersion
2. ignore the previous chapters to focus on new chapters, meaning the content is over after the new chapter is finished
3. ...there is no option 3 right now, and we need it; it would be to play the game from the beginning.
IN SHORT, THERE IS NO OPTION TO PLAY ESO FOR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT NARRATIVE IMMERSION; it is broken either through starting at the latest chapter, or by leaving the latest chapter. (Either leaving at the beginning to play main quest or when they run out of things to do)

So having players start at the main quest will likely be better in the long run - at least for the narrative minded people (ei fans of Oblivion?). It might even aid player retention.
SUGGESTION: after tutorial, put several hooks that allow people to accidentally/seemlessly travel to the new chapter. then it can be part of their experience instead of a separate experience.

Part of a game developers job is to protect people from themselves. Gamers are notorious for optimizing the fun out of their own experience. I've seen players do it. So if you let someone choose to play the newest, shiniest part of the game first then they will do it.
I suspect that those people will then finish that content, and either not care about narrative and focus on the end game PvP and etc, or quit when they realize that their narrative broke the moment they logged into the game.
1. if people feel they already got the best content they have no reason to stick around
2. people are more inclined to take a break and not come back if the next goal is complicated or intimidating- which describes trying to figure out what to do after you finish a chapter out of order... or just get pushed into a huge world with no easy entrance point

=> if instead people had a coherent experience that guided them into the next zone once they finished the immediately available content they might then explore the rest of the world.

IDEALLY THE DEVELOPERS WILL FIND A WAY TO HAVE THE NEWEST PARTS OF THE GAME FIT INTO THE MAIN STORY, but until then... I'd be happy if they would at least let ME have a decent unbroken narrative.

Again, ESO feels like two separate experiences; the old content that the game does not want you to see and the new content that you have no context for/ doesnt quite fit in.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This was my experience starting a new character with new content;
1. Pre-ordered ESO, thought the intro was intriguing, and really appreciated them having a lore explanation for resurrection.
2. Pre-ordered Morrowind, moved just to get internet to play it. Liked how the tutorial quest led into the main content but felt cheated that my character wasn't actually coming from somewhere. My character had no reason to get a letter inviting him there yet... I also wanted to complete the zone I was in before going back to do the main quest. I struggled to get into the main quest... struggled to figure out whether I should start a new character to experience it correctly, failed to get there before getting pulled into morrowind quest several times and eventually gave up without seeing most of the world.
3. I left shortly after Summerset launched. The tutorial quest felt stupid, and I felt like I was starting in the wrong place. I became dejected and depressed. I wanted to play the game, but I felt like I was skipping content and it undermined my enjoyment of the new zone. Eventually I realized I was not enjoying the game so I deleted it to make room for steam games and never had enough room on that computer to redownload it. (I tried)
* I don't want to jump into the next chapter just to feel that same sinking feeling of discomfort.I want to finally beat the original main quest. Willing to buy any expansion that lets me go back and experience the base game properly.


I am also a discoverer/explorer type. I care about narrative and I spend hours wandering the world looking for books. I do not use add-ons to find skyshards and other collectibles because I want to see things myself.
To me, continuity is extremely important. I get frustrated if I die before my character is immortal solely because it breaks immersion.
I know a lot of people are different types of players. Some dont care about the narrative. Some can get over it.
But others cannot.

I think that the lack of continuity is hurting this game. People come in, play for a while then realize that there is a whole world outside of the current chapter. But when they try to enter that world things dont make sense. They feel like they need to create a new character to experience the game the *correct* way but by then they have sunk a lot of resources into the character(s) they have and do not want to have to do that whole chapter over again.

I think that starting out in the newest chapter hurts players interest and makes people more likely to quit- particularly those who desire to be invested in the world rather than the gameplay. Now, I'm not claiming that a more coherent game will solve retention issues, but it could help.

I know this is excessively long, but its been bothering me for years and I needed to get it off my chest. I write this comment because a lot of people talk about the newcomers, and about people who have been playing for awhile. But I rarely see people talk about returning players. Lets be honest, a lot of people that love the franchise, and have played it in the past want to buy the newest expansion, but feel betrayed when it undermines the base game storyline or experience.

I personally am on the fence about buying any more DLC; its coming out so fast I just dont feel like I have a way to experience it. I missed a couple chapters and now feel like I have been left behind and locked out of that content. Sure, it may be superficial, but its still keeping me from playing the game.

Didn't see an "other" option but I'd like to see a spawning point and tutorial start you right off in Cyrodiil. Of course we'd have to do away with that pesky level 10 requirement first.

What i actually miss is an option to actualy start in the zone of your race or faction to get an idea of your character's culture and background.
.