why are people so insistent that we should pay separate for the crafting bag?

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2020

It is because of this:

Both are same cars, but one is stripped to "bare necessity" so it can drive from point A to B. ZOS designed the game that way deliberately. They want you to pay extra for something that should be in base game - but was cut-off.

Also, this was not a problem 2 - 3 years ago (that is why "craft bag" or more "bank space" threads are popping now).
Back then we did not had so many crafting item types - so every one could fit everything into default 240 slot bank. But now, it is imposable. When you buy a new chapter or dlc - you don't get not even +1 more bank space to keep stuff. All you can do is buy a pet that gives +5 more inventory, or buy new character slot to keep gear (if you must). But as far as crafting goes on multiple characters - the inventory juggle is a real pain in the arse.

ZOS introduced a problem and is selling solution to it. Brilliant marketing, but also it captures perfectly the darkest, evil side of capitalism. So, unfortunately - as long as whales will be buying ESO+ for the Craft Bag - all we can count is maybe an inventory / bank "pet" every 2 years...

Disclaimer: I am not a "free" (eso is B2P lol) player, I have spend a lot money on this game, DLCs, Chapters, Houses, Crowns, Crown Crates - every major update so far. So, yeah, it kinda sucks that my experience is inferior vs player who probably have spend slightly less - but is a ESO+ subscriber. And no, I don't use ESO+, simply because I don't like superscription model. It is a matter of preferences, not money.

robertthebard · April 2020

Malmai wrote: »

wolfbone wrote: »

In my opinion, paying £8.99 a month for free crowns, free crown store items, along with discounts, free access to all dlc, and the xp boost and craft bag is well worth the monthly price. if not worth a lot more. having to pay a separate price for the crafting bag is a bad idea. I'd rather pay the monthly fee for eso +, rather than eso + and then a separate fee for a crafting bag that'll possibly cost more. for what eso+ costs for everything you get for it, it's a great price, and is worth so much more than what they charge us.

What is free? you are paying just with ESO+ over 140$ and where are chapters ? makes it close to 200$.

I get more crowns for + than I can buy for the cost of +, that makes everything else free. Math is hard.

Tigerseye · April 2020

Because they want the option to be able to do that, without subbing.

Not because they want to stop you (or me) getting the craft bag, via subbing.

Starlock · April 2020

@Tommy_The_Gun nails it and beat me to the punch.

The video game industry these days has become plagued with monetization strategies that exploit customers. If this wasn't bad enough, designing games around customer exploitation is used to excuse poor game design. Put simply, problems are left in the game - and in many cases deliberately designed - so that the company can sell players the solution to the problems they created. That's precisely what the craft bag is - solution selling. It's bad game design, and it's unethical. It is especially onerous to lock this solution selling behind a recurring fee.

Tigerseye · April 2020

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

To the OP essentially many people want the game to basically be pay once and free forever after. Without any actual statistics to back me me up, simply discussions with guild mates I would guess conservatively that ESO would loose more the 50% of their present subscribers if they made the crafting bag a one time purchase.

Well, they would be pretty stupid, then, because they would suddenly have half the inv space and half the bank space, as well.

Which may be fine if you are still a new player, but would be pretty dire if you had got used to having them.

Admittedly, there still isn't enough of either and there are workarounds to those, like logging alts endlessly, alt accounts and fake guild banks.

However, the point is that most people are probably forgetting that ESO+ doesn't just give you a craft bag.

...and that is still leaving out other things, like the included Crowns, access to all DLCs, bonus progression and gold, costume dyeing, double transmute crystal capacity and double the furnishing slots, if you do housing.

Yes, most of it is pretty paltry, even with ESO+, but it's still quite a lot better than you will be left with if you unsubscribe.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka · April 2020

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Damocles · April 2020

For alot of people not having a crafting bag makes their experience significantly less fun then it could be.

So they end up quitting and that plays significant role in their choice to quit. It's not fun having 100s of items in the world and being unable to pick majority of them up. Actually, I can't really recommend the game mainly due to the craft bag. The game is not half as fun without it. I would suggest a middle ground is making a free craft bag that everyone can access, however limit how many items can be stored in it, such as 50/100/200. Having unlimited for eso+ is still very appealing with unlimited as well as accessing all content and good value for crowns and the other bonuses.

theyancey · April 2020

I had rather see the game g back to a subscription required to play scenario.

RefLiberty · April 2020

theyancey wrote: »

I had rather see the game g back to a subscription required to play scenario.

A dream come true.
Sub required and benefits included. Those *** calling sub paying people whales, but in the same time they advocate even more monetized game, omfg.
At the end, they will start to pay for a quests. Like, you wold like this quest line > crown store.
It amazes me how they cannot see that the subscription based game is better over overpriced gem/crown store games.

robertthebard · April 2020

How to tell when the well is running dry on arguments to remove something from +:

"But think of the new players"... It should have it's own subreddit, it's such an established meme.

Tigerseye · April 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

wolfbone wrote: »

In my opinion, paying £8.99 a month for free crowns, free crown store items, along with discounts, free access to all dlc, and the xp boost and craft bag is well worth the monthly price. if not worth a lot more. having to pay a separate price for the crafting bag is a bad idea. I'd rather pay the monthly fee for eso +, rather than eso + and then a separate fee for a crafting bag that'll possibly cost more. for what eso+ costs for everything you get for it, it's a great price, and is worth so much more than what they charge us.

Because they are probably unemployed and cannot afford £8.99 monthly, so they are looking to make a one time bag purchase from moms credit card or welfare check, and continue to play for free.

That's a bold statement during a global shutdown.

Essential worker are we?

Or maybe wealthy and/or retired?

Bingo · April 2020

Starlock wrote: »

@Tommy_The_Gun nails it and beat me to the punch.

The video game industry these days has become plagued with monetization strategies that exploit customers. If this wasn't bad enough, designing games around customer exploitation is used to excuse poor game design. Put simply, problems are left in the game - and in many cases deliberately designed - so that the company can sell players the solution to the problems they created. That's precisely what the craft bag is - solution selling. It's bad game design, and it's unethical. It is especially onerous to lock this solution selling behind a recurring fee.

Do you really think this? How is providing a service for

Do you think the people they would have to be let go from their coding jobs feel the same as you?

Coppes · April 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

I had rather see the game g back to a subscription required to play scenario.

A dream come true.
Sub required and benefits included. Those *** calling sub paying people whales, but in the same time they advocate even more monetized game, omfg.
At the end, they will start to pay for a quests. Like, you wold like this quest line > crown store.
It amazes me how they cannot see that the subscription based game is better over overpriced gem/crown store games.

Nobody calls subscribers whales.

RefLiberty · April 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

RefLiberty wrote: »

wolfbone wrote: »

In my opinion, paying £8.99 a month for free crowns, free crown store items, along with discounts, free access to all dlc, and the xp boost and craft bag is well worth the monthly price. if not worth a lot more. having to pay a separate price for the crafting bag is a bad idea. I'd rather pay the monthly fee for eso +, rather than eso + and then a separate fee for a crafting bag that'll possibly cost more. for what eso+ costs for everything you get for it, it's a great price, and is worth so much more than what they charge us.

Because they are probably unemployed and cannot afford £8.99 monthly, so they are looking to make a one time bag purchase from moms credit card or welfare check, and continue to play for free.

That's a bold statement during a global shutdown

Essential worker are we?

Or maybe wealthy and/or retired?

IT working from home. No shutdowns in this industry. It is irrelevant where we sit when working. But that is not the subject.

There is also a good comment on another thread from someone else, and that is that it would be interesting to see peoples reaction ifthis happens, and the price would probably be several thousands crowns, so it would be interesting to see the reaction of those who are for this idea, to have to shovel $100 - $150 at once, maybe even more, and $12 monthly is a problem.

Anyhow. I'll always be for obligatory subscription in order to play the game, but if that will bring full features to game and some vanity items in store.
Example would be wow, where you have sub, but practically everything else can be acquired by actually playing the game, let me remind you there are like 350-400 mounts, all available through completing some achievements and by actually playing the game.
Here is already everything behind overpriced shop items paywall, and you are actually promoting even bigger monetization.
And leave the assumptions where who works in RL here on forums, you are bad at it.

RefLiberty · April 2020

Coppes wrote: »

RefLiberty wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

I had rather see the game g back to a subscription required to play scenario.

A dream come true.
Sub required and benefits included. Those *** calling sub paying people whales, but in the same time they advocate even more monetized game, omfg.
At the end, they will start to pay for a quests. Like, you wold like this quest line > crown store.
It amazes me how they cannot see that the subscription based game is better over overpriced gem/crown store games.

Nobody calls subscribers whales.

"unfortunately - as long as whales will be buying ESO+ for the Craft Bag"
Tommy_the_Gun

idk · April 2020

The answer is pretty simple.

If I had purchased every DLC since the Zos started selling them, I would have paid far less than what it costs to sub. It is a good deal. Heck, I was about to cancel my sub and buy all the DLCs when Zos announced the crafting bag.

However, those that chose to buy the DLCs and not sub do see the value the crafting bag provides. So they ask for Zos to sell it to them separately in one fashion or another.

In the end, subscriptions are the most reliable revenue for this business model and certainly more lucrative than DLC sales. Making the crafting bag an ESO+ exclusive was an amazing business decision. It would make no sense for Zot to change their minds on that.

zyk · April 2020

idk wrote: »

In the end, subscriptions are the most reliable revenue for this business model and certainly more lucrative than DLC sales. Making the crafting bag an ESO+ exclusive was an amazing business decision. It would make no sense for Zot to change their minds on that.

There is nothing groundbreaking about the monetization strategies in ESO. They were old when ESO launched without them. The craft bag is only so attractive because the game design has been compromised to make it practically essential. Because of this poor monetization strategy, every aspect of the game has far more items than is necessary. This makes the game more mentally taxing without any benefit.

Ironically, the item bloat in ESO was a reason I unsubbed and play far less than I used to.

Sylvermynx · April 2020

While I'm a whale, I also sub, on two accounts. I'm thinking about a third one. I'm happy to support a game I thoroughly enjoy every day for many hours.

Whales are people like me who have plenty of disposable income to use in a game that is fun. So yeah, I spend the sub money on two accounts - and then I buy crowns for whatever else I want.

Because.... this game is my hobby, and I have plenty of money to spend on it. Oh, and btw - outside of someone trashing a major database table (likely what happened today), I don't have any issues actually PLAYING the game. Thankfully, I don't bother with pvp or other "endgame" stuff. Not my idea of fun thanks.