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Eviscerate needs a stamina morph instead of Blood for Blood
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not opposed to it or anything, but Vampires are marketed as "powerful mages". For stamina, we got dogs.12 -
Paradisius✭✭✭✭I think rather than just removing blood for blood, make blood for blood scale off highest offensive stats. That way we get to keep a spammable that consumes health rather than our main resources, and both types of vamps are happy.15 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Paradisius wrote: »I think rather than just removing blood for blood, make blood for blood scale off highest offensive stats. That way we get to keep a spammable that consumes health rather than our main resources, and both types of vamps are happy.
Pretty sensible compromise actually. Though would it be worth gaining a 5% regular ability cost (at stage 1) just for a generic spammable?2 -
Paradisius✭✭✭✭Pretty sensible compromise actually. Though would it be worth gaining a 5% regular ability cost (at stage 1) just for a generic spammable?
Depends on the class, and how much you want to change your build. To some classes that 5% cost is nothing to scoff at, and some extra recovery can mitigate such things, but thats all up to the player.
1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka builds don't need to lose more options to their Stamina counterparts. It already happened to Necromancers, where many of our class abilities lost morph options to Stamina (who often got the clearly superior morphs, as well), without any compensation via expanded "generic" magicka options.
Blood for Blood either needs to be redesigned into a different - perhaps ranged - morph for Magicka builds, or stay similar to what it is now and provide options for some sort of high-HP magicka setups. It definitely doesn't need to become a Stamina morph that simply never gets used because Dizzying Swing is vastly superior (and if it becomes comparable to Dizzying Swing, the Magicka morph will have been left in the dust).
I'll be fine with Stamina getting more options with class and/or generic skills when Magicka gets expanded generic options that aren't hot garbage.4 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I looked at that spammable, it’s decent but even at stage 4 it was around 1200 Health cost. I’m not sure if it’s feasible to use in pvp, that’s a lot.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka builds don't need to lose more options to their Stamina counterparts. It already happened to Necromancers, where many of our class abilities lost morph options to Stamina (who often got the clearly superior morphs, as well), without any compensation via expanded "generic" magicka options.
Blood for Blood either needs to be redesigned into a different - perhaps ranged - morph for Magicka builds, or stay similar to what it is now and provide options for some sort of high-HP magicka setups. It definitely doesn't need to become a Stamina morph that simply never gets used because Dizzying Swing is vastly superior (and if it becomes comparable to Dizzying Swing, the Magicka morph will have been left in the dust).
I'll be fine with Stamina getting more options with class and/or generic skills when Magicka gets expanded generic options that aren't hot garbage.
The reason people are asking for a stamina morph is so stage 4 stamina vamps have a vamp spammable to help offset the absurd cost increase of everything else.3 -
Y2J✭I can't see them changing the spammable to a stamina morph. They have obviously chosen vamps to be magika based. Stamina have plenty of options for spammables anyways and they have the werewolf option, which is completely stamina based. There is no magika option for werewolf, so why should there be a stamina option for vamps.
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You’d be surprised to know stamina builds like to be a vampire to not just for pvp but simply for role play not everything in eso min max it’s literally a mmo RPG some players like to have fun lmao 🤣Magicka builds don't need to lose more options to their Stamina counterparts. It already happened to Necromancers, where many of our class abilities lost morph options to Stamina (who often got the clearly superior morphs, as well), without any compensation via expanded "generic" magicka options.
Blood for Blood either needs to be redesigned into a different - perhaps ranged - morph for Magicka builds, or stay similar to what it is now and provide options for some sort of high-HP magicka setups. It definitely doesn't need to become a Stamina morph that simply never gets used because Dizzying Swing is vastly superior (and if it becomes comparable to Dizzying Swing, the Magicka morph will have been left in the dust).
I'll be fine with Stamina getting more options with class and/or generic skills when Magicka gets expanded generic options that aren't hot garbage.
Edited by Deathlord92 on April 27, 2020 11:58AM1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vampire is for Magicka, Werewolf is for Stamina. Please do not give even more tools to stamina.
Vampire is already too split by allowing blood frenzy and the stealth damage passive to grant weapon damage. I'd rather it was magicka exclusive just like Werewolf is for stamina.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t know how many times it must be said vampires is a stat of being not a class vampires are powerful mages rogues warriors etc0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.4 -
D3N7157✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Ok stamdd main
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Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭change my mind
Can we get Magicka morphs for werewolf as well
thanks.
Werewolves can totally be magical as well. I'm not saying it needs to cast spells just scale attacks with highest bar.Edited by Yamenstein on April 27, 2020 12:34PMCrown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.4 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That’s not an unreasonable request there are magic melee skills in the game already.Yamenstein wrote: »
0 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Yeah lets just muddy that water even more and give stamina more Magicka kitsdarthgummibear_ESO wrote: »Magicka builds don't need to lose more options to their Stamina counterparts. It already happened to Necromancers, where many of our class abilities lost morph options to Stamina (who often got the clearly superior morphs, as well), without any compensation via expanded "generic" magicka options.
Blood for Blood either needs to be redesigned into a different - perhaps ranged - morph for Magicka builds, or stay similar to what it is now and provide options for some sort of high-HP magicka setups. It definitely doesn't need to become a Stamina morph that simply never gets used because Dizzying Swing is vastly superior (and if it becomes comparable to Dizzying Swing, the Magicka morph will have been left in the dust).
I'll be fine with Stamina getting more options with class and/or generic skills when Magicka gets expanded generic options that aren't hot garbage.
The reason people are asking for a stamina morph is so stage 4 stamina vamps have a vamp spammable to help offset the absurd cost increase of everything else.
So, here is the deal, the class is obviously not built for stamina, it has -some- stuff that can work for it, but ultimately those are just hand waves that they should not even give. It's okay to have a magicka skill line. Stam as a lot and WW just got reworked with stamina being the primary focus. You might not like it because you want to be a stampire, but they already gave stamina the magicka drain by making it a stamina drain, which sucks, and Blood Frenzy has weapon damage. I don't think stamina character need to take more out of a magicka focused skill line. And for those that say vampire is not a magicka focused thing, look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended. They clearly want vampires to have natural spell casting ability. sure you can still be a warrior, but being a vampire does not help you be one.
I would suggest if you want to be a stamina vampire, then you should play at stage two or three and not stage four, so you can keep using the over tuned spammables you already have.1 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.
Fair enough, not a selling point.
Point still stands, it seems like a waste of work if people think it's better to not use this feature at all on many of their chars.look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended.
If we consider past Elder Scrolls games vampirism always gave mixed boni. Yes, it boosted magicka related stuff and gave spells but it boosted what we would consider "stamina" in ESO as well.
E: oopsie, seems like I deleted this line: I will only list what stamina-related boni vampirism gave for better viewability.
Skyrim:
Had no attributes outside of resources. Vampirism didn't boost skill lines at at (not even destruction). But your illusion spells were more potent + you became harder to detect while sneaking.
Oblivion:
Skill bonus to (amongst others) Acrobatics, Athletics, Hand to Hand, Sneak
Attribute bonus to Stength and Speed
Morrowind:
Attribute bonus to Strength, Speed
Skill bonus to Sneak, Athletics, Hand to Hand
Depending on your clan also boni to short blade, blunt weapons, heavy armor, Agility and/or Stength and hand to hand again
Daggerfall:
Attribute boni to all attributes except Intelligence (except you join a certain clan)
Skill boni to Hand to hand, stealth etc.
Can you really say that Vampirism has never been about stamina? Even if we only go as far back as oblivion (how convenient for your argument), it gave stength (which I would consider on the green side of eso).Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on April 27, 2020 5:30PM2 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.
Fair enough, not a selling point.
Point still stands, it seems like a waste of work if people think it's better to not use this feature at all on many of their chars.look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended.
If we consider past Elder Scrolls games vampirism always gave mixed boni. Yes, it boosted magicka related stuff and gave spells but it boosted what we would consider "stamina" in ESO as well.
E: oopsie, seems like I deleted this line: I will only list what stamina-related boni vampirism gave for better viewability.
Skyrim:
Had no attributes outside of resources. Vampirism didn't boost skill lines at at (not even destruction). But your illusion spells were more potent + you became harder to detect while sneaking.
Oblivion:
Skill bonus to (amongst others) Acrobatics, Athletics, Hand to Hand, Sneak
Attribute bonus to Stength and Speed
Morrowind:
Attribute bonus to Strength, Speed
Skill bonus to Sneak, Athletics, Hand to Hand
Depending on your clan also boni to short blade, blunt weapons, heavy armor, Agility and/or Stength and hand to hand again
Daggerfall:
Attribute boni to all attributes except Intelligence (except you join a certain clan)
Skill boni to Hand to hand, stealth etc.
Can you really say that Vampirism has never been about stamina? Even if we only go as far back as oblivion (how convenient for your argument), it gave stength (which I would consider on the green side of eso).
I said it never has been about stamina in ESO I wasn't talking about previous games on that one. In eso most all of it's abilities have always been geared towards magicka, with exception of a few abilties that included stamina potential. It is stay true to that as it is now, there is some stamina potential with mostly magicka focused skills. I think people got the concept twisted since they got so used to having that universally good regen passive.1 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.
Fair enough, not a selling point.
Point still stands, it seems like a waste of work if people think it's better to not use this feature at all on many of their chars.look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended.
If we consider past Elder Scrolls games vampirism always gave mixed boni. Yes, it boosted magicka related stuff and gave spells but it boosted what we would consider "stamina" in ESO as well.
E: oopsie, seems like I deleted this line: I will only list what stamina-related boni vampirism gave for better viewability.
Skyrim:
Had no attributes outside of resources. Vampirism didn't boost skill lines at at (not even destruction). But your illusion spells were more potent + you became harder to detect while sneaking.
Oblivion:
Skill bonus to (amongst others) Acrobatics, Athletics, Hand to Hand, Sneak
Attribute bonus to Stength and Speed
Morrowind:
Attribute bonus to Strength, Speed
Skill bonus to Sneak, Athletics, Hand to Hand
Depending on your clan also boni to short blade, blunt weapons, heavy armor, Agility and/or Stength and hand to hand again
Daggerfall:
Attribute boni to all attributes except Intelligence (except you join a certain clan)
Skill boni to Hand to hand, stealth etc.
Can you really say that Vampirism has never been about stamina? Even if we only go as far back as oblivion (how convenient for your argument), it gave stength (which I would consider on the green side of eso).
I said it never has been about stamina in ESO I wasn't talking about previous games on that one. In eso most all of it's abilities have always been geared towards magicka, with exception of a few abilties that included stamina potential. It is stay true to that as it is now, there is some stamina potential with mostly magicka focused skills. I think people got the concept twisted since they got so used to having that universally good regen passive.
Yeah, let's just completely ignore all the passives geared towards stealth players, which is stamina-based gameplay.2 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.
Fair enough, not a selling point.
Point still stands, it seems like a waste of work if people think it's better to not use this feature at all on many of their chars.look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended.
If we consider past Elder Scrolls games vampirism always gave mixed boni. Yes, it boosted magicka related stuff and gave spells but it boosted what we would consider "stamina" in ESO as well.
E: oopsie, seems like I deleted this line: I will only list what stamina-related boni vampirism gave for better viewability.
Skyrim:
Had no attributes outside of resources. Vampirism didn't boost skill lines at at (not even destruction). But your illusion spells were more potent + you became harder to detect while sneaking.
Oblivion:
Skill bonus to (amongst others) Acrobatics, Athletics, Hand to Hand, Sneak
Attribute bonus to Stength and Speed
Morrowind:
Attribute bonus to Strength, Speed
Skill bonus to Sneak, Athletics, Hand to Hand
Depending on your clan also boni to short blade, blunt weapons, heavy armor, Agility and/or Stength and hand to hand again
Daggerfall:
Attribute boni to all attributes except Intelligence (except you join a certain clan)
Skill boni to Hand to hand, stealth etc.
Can you really say that Vampirism has never been about stamina? Even if we only go as far back as oblivion (how convenient for your argument), it gave stength (which I would consider on the green side of eso).
I said it never has been about stamina in ESO I wasn't talking about previous games on that one. In eso most all of it's abilities have always been geared towards magicka, with exception of a few abilties that included stamina potential. It is stay true to that as it is now, there is some stamina potential with mostly magicka focused skills. I think people got the concept twisted since they got so used to having that universally good regen passive.
Yeah, let's just completely ignore all the passives geared towards stealth players, which is stamina-based gameplay.
You had two, two passives that were stealth based which benefited every build type, not just stamina. Like it or not, it was always geared towards magicka and they are keeping that theme, it just sucks more for stamina now that its not all passive focused and has a cost to it.1 -
navystylz_ESO✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Are we going to pretend all kind of magical class haven't been able to transform into animals? How about countless druids in different games, books and lore? Their werewolf form doesn't hit like a wet noodle just because when outside of it they use magic.
This same thing can be said of Vampirism. The power of the vampire doesn't come from their skills prior to becoming a vampire, and they can certainly learn all types of martial skills which many can be enhanced by their preternatural state of being. Vampire's abilities derive from their blood. The magic that changed them into what they are. ZOS needs to get the heck out of their original mindset of splitting things stamina/magicka and get to making things scale based on your highest stat where it makes sense.
All vampire abilities should scale based on your highest stat, because vampirism isn't about your class. And if it were up to me, all vampire skills would have a health cost that made them do some kind of enhanced or magical effect.
Edited by navystylz_ESO on April 27, 2020 10:19PM3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭navystylz_ESO wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Are we going to pretend all kind of magical class haven't been able to transform into animals? How about countless druids in different games, books and lore? Their werewolf form doesn't hit like a wet noodle just because when outside of it they use magic.
This same thing can be said of Vampirism. The power of the vampire doesn't come their skills prior to becoming a vampire, and they can certainly learn all types of martial skills which many can be enhanced by their preternatural state of being. Vampire's abilities derive from their blood. The magic they changed them into what they are. ZOS neither to get the heck out of their original mindset of splitting things stamina/magicka and get to making things scale based on your highest stat.
All vampire abilities should scale based on your highest stat, because vampirism isn't about your class. And if it were up to me, all vampire skills would have a health cost that made them do some kind of enhanced or magical effect.
Well, good point with the shapeshifter druids. Totally forgot about that.0 -
navystylz_ESO✭✭✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.
Fair enough, not a selling point.
Point still stands, it seems like a waste of work if people think it's better to not use this feature at all on many of their chars.look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended.
If we consider past Elder Scrolls games vampirism always gave mixed boni. Yes, it boosted magicka related stuff and gave spells but it boosted what we would consider "stamina" in ESO as well.
E: oopsie, seems like I deleted this line: I will only list what stamina-related boni vampirism gave for better viewability.
Skyrim:
Had no attributes outside of resources. Vampirism didn't boost skill lines at at (not even destruction). But your illusion spells were more potent + you became harder to detect while sneaking.
Oblivion:
Skill bonus to (amongst others) Acrobatics, Athletics, Hand to Hand, Sneak
Attribute bonus to Stength and Speed
Morrowind:
Attribute bonus to Strength, Speed
Skill bonus to Sneak, Athletics, Hand to Hand
Depending on your clan also boni to short blade, blunt weapons, heavy armor, Agility and/or Stength and hand to hand again
Daggerfall:
Attribute boni to all attributes except Intelligence (except you join a certain clan)
Skill boni to Hand to hand, stealth etc.
Can you really say that Vampirism has never been about stamina? Even if we only go as far back as oblivion (how convenient for your argument), it gave stength (which I would consider on the green side of eso).
I said it never has been about stamina in ESO I wasn't talking about previous games on that one. In eso most all of it's abilities have always been geared towards magicka, with exception of a few abilties that included stamina potential. It is stay true to that as it is now, there is some stamina potential with mostly magicka focused skills. I think people got the concept twisted since they got so used to having that universally good regen passive.
Yeah, let's just completely ignore all the passives geared towards stealth players, which is stamina-based gameplay.
Stealth in the way you're speaking of it is only "geared" towards stamina players because they get a reduction in stealth. My magicka nightblade has been more of a stealth character than any stamina class outside of a stamina nightblade, so that argument is false. And you can consider that vampires just make any class more into a stealth class by giving them bonuses to do it easier.1 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭navystylz_ESO wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Are we going to pretend all kind of magical class haven't been able to transform into animals? How about countless druids in different games, books and lore? Their werewolf form doesn't hit like a wet noodle just because when outside of it they use magic.
This same thing can be said of Vampirism. The power of the vampire doesn't come from their skills prior to becoming a vampire, and they can certainly learn all types of martial skills which many can be enhanced by their preternatural state of being. Vampire's abilities derive from their blood. The magic that changed them into what they are. ZOS needs to get the heck out of their original mindset of splitting things stamina/magicka and get to making things scale based on your highest stat where it makes sense.
All vampire abilities should scale based on your highest stat, because vampirism isn't about your class. And if it were up to me, all vampire skills would have a health cost that made them do some kind of enhanced or magical effect.
So here is the only issue I have, and that is that is basically still what vampire is, it is and has always been geared more towards magicka, but it has a lot of stamina viablity. I have been testing some stam builds, some of them are rough but I can benefit from every skill except the spammable, all of them can be used by a stam character effectively. The passives too can benefit them. They have been given a lot of options here, they just have to consider their stages more. I think the stamina builds out there can spare one spammable, it's not going to make building a vampire easier anyway, you are still going to end up spamming Dizzy or Cleave regardless. Though, I found myself using the duel wield spammable more for the health regen.0 -
navystylz_ESO✭✭✭✭
So here is the only issue I have, and that is that is basically still what vampire is, it is and has always been geared more towards magicka, but it has a lot of stamina viablity. I have been testing some stam builds, some of them are rough but I can benefit from every skill except the spammable, all of them can be used by a stam character effectively. The passives too can benefit them. They have been given a lot of options here, they just have to consider their stages more. I think the stamina builds out there can spare one spammable, it's not going to make building a vampire easier anyway, you are still going to end up spamming Dizzy or Cleave regardless. Though, I found myself using the duel wield spammable more for the health regen.
I mean, at the end of the day my vampire is magicka. So I can't relate to those people anyway. But, it points to a larger issue with some skills lines. It's just a constant back and forth with, stamina got this and it's better, magicka got that and it's better. But I think their whole skill system is a mess. A hodgpodge of stuff that makes no sense to the base class, and pidgeonholes you into have certain weapons for stam and certain weapons for magic. And if we're being honest, magic only gets 1 weapon. A staff... that staff has 4 types broken into 2 lines. Doesn't make it a different weapon or act differently, except from resto v dest.1 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Following your logic I want Magicka morph for werewolf
How many spellslinging Werewolfs have you seen in any fantasy tale?
How many dagger stabbing Vampires did you come across in said tales?
The only reason to lock out everyone outside of magicka dds from vampire is to not give stamina some new toys. And that is a rather pathetic reason to begin with. Especially if we're considering it's a main selling point of the upcoming product.
Its not a selling point, we are getting the rework for free, you do not have to buy Greymoor to gain access to it. It a a skill line rework for a base game skill line. It just happens to be dropping with the Greymoor patch. Its fine that it stays primarily magicka as that is what it traditionally is, and always has been.
Fair enough, not a selling point.
Point still stands, it seems like a waste of work if people think it's better to not use this feature at all on many of their chars.look at the last two TES games and tell me that is not the direction the developers have intended.
If we consider past Elder Scrolls games vampirism always gave mixed boni. Yes, it boosted magicka related stuff and gave spells but it boosted what we would consider "stamina" in ESO as well.
E: oopsie, seems like I deleted this line: I will only list what stamina-related boni vampirism gave for better viewability.
Skyrim:
Had no attributes outside of resources. Vampirism didn't boost skill lines at at (not even destruction). But your illusion spells were more potent + you became harder to detect while sneaking.
Oblivion:
Skill bonus to (amongst others) Acrobatics, Athletics, Hand to Hand, Sneak
Attribute bonus to Stength and Speed
Morrowind:
Attribute bonus to Strength, Speed
Skill bonus to Sneak, Athletics, Hand to Hand
Depending on your clan also boni to short blade, blunt weapons, heavy armor, Agility and/or Stength and hand to hand again
Daggerfall:
Attribute boni to all attributes except Intelligence (except you join a certain clan)
Skill boni to Hand to hand, stealth etc.
Can you really say that Vampirism has never been about stamina? Even if we only go as far back as oblivion (how convenient for your argument), it gave stength (which I would consider on the green side of eso).
I said it never has been about stamina in ESO I wasn't talking about previous games on that one. In eso most all of it's abilities have always been geared towards magicka, with exception of a few abilties that included stamina potential. It is stay true to that as it is now, there is some stamina potential with mostly magicka focused skills. I think people got the concept twisted since they got so used to having that universally good regen passive.
Yeah, let's just completely ignore all the passives geared towards stealth players, which is stamina-based gameplay.
You had two, two passives that were stealth based which benefited every build type, not just stamina. Like it or not, it was always geared towards magicka and they are keeping that theme, it just sucks more for stamina now that its not all passive focused and has a cost to it.
Keep holding onto the "always geared towards magika" delusion.2 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭navystylz_ESO wrote: »
So here is the only issue I have, and that is that is basically still what vampire is, it is and has always been geared more towards magicka, but it has a lot of stamina viablity. I have been testing some stam builds, some of them are rough but I can benefit from every skill except the spammable, all of them can be used by a stam character effectively. The passives too can benefit them. They have been given a lot of options here, they just have to consider their stages more. I think the stamina builds out there can spare one spammable, it's not going to make building a vampire easier anyway, you are still going to end up spamming Dizzy or Cleave regardless. Though, I found myself using the duel wield spammable more for the health regen.
I mean, at the end of the day my vampire is magicka. So I can't relate to those people anyway. But, it points to a larger issue with some skills lines. It's just a constant back and forth with, stamina got this and it's better, magicka got that and it's better. But I think their whole skill system is a mess. A hodgpodge of stuff that makes no sense to the base class, and pidgeonholes you into have certain weapons for stam and certain weapons for magic. And if we're being honest, magic only gets 1 weapon. A staff... that staff has 4 types broken into 2 lines. Doesn't make it a different weapon or act differently, except from resto v dest.
I can agree with that on a whole as a statement. Like, I think I even argued before that the way builds work in this game is so messy and strange that it did not feel well planned or like they had a clear vision of what they wanted.0
