Bring back the old vampire as a different skill line.

MaskedHuman · April 2020

I've been playing a magdk ever since imperial city. and in pvp one of my favorite ults ever, even now is Devouring swarm. It deals good aoe damage, and has a flat healing number, which makes the healing good because it's not healing based off of damage done. Healing based off of damage done is absolutely garbage in pvp.

Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion. Bat scions (both morphs) are absolutely garbage.

Sure it gives you 10k max stats on health, stam and mag. and also gives you the ability to heal 15% off of damage done (which Is literally nothing when I tested it on the pts, even with all my dots active) It makes you stay in the form for 20 seconds, and for 20 whole seconds, YOU CAN'T GAIN ANY ULTIMATE. this is such a bad mechanic for a magdk player because then your sustain is completely butchered.

Speaking of sustain, 20% cost increase to abilities? really? even with 3 Infused cost reductions my coagulating blood costs 3613 and my engulfing flames cost 2738, without vamp. they go to 3011 and 2282.

So for being the new vamp, I get garbage sustain, for an ultimate that has terrible healing compared to Devouring swarm and makes my sustain ever worse because I won't be able to gain any ult.

this change doesn't benefit anyone unless it's a complete vampire build. I don't think anyone aside from RP purposes would want that. Here's what should be done instead:

Keep the new vampire lord skill line, and make another vampire skill line which can be considered a weaker vampire, and make that skill line the same as old vampire. Or keep vampire 2 ultimate, 1 is bat scion, and other is the old 2 bat swarm morphs.

Thevampirenight · April 2020

I actually do think they could do something like this.
I mean what they could do is add those abilties that the npc vampires got along with it.
However what would be unique is if they made it so this blood line so it would not be as blood thirsty and have control over it.
Draw Backs for this can't feed on innocent justice npcs or use vampiric abilties on them. Because what they could do is make it so we can offically join the Ravenwatch Blood Line which would be pretty neat if they could allow us to join Gwendis and the other Good Aligned Vampires of the Ravenwatch.
Would be neat if they would allow for that. That way we could be Clan Lamae or Clan Ravenwatch. One Clan clearly wants to prey and delight in drinking blood, the other is about controlling the bloodlust and using the vampiric powers for the benefit of others.
I would love to have that vampire bloodline dynamic and duality. Even if we could only join one blood line or the other.

MaskedHuman · April 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I actually do think they could do something like this.
I mean what they could do is add those abilties that the npc vampires got along with it.
However what would be unique is if they made it so this blood line so it would not be as blood thirsty and have control over it.
Draw Backs for this can't feed on innocent justice npcs or use vampiric abilties on them. Because what they could do is make it so we can offically join the Ravenwatch Blood Line which would be pretty neat if they could allow us to join Gwendis and the other Good Aligned Vampires of the Ravenwatch.
Would be neat if they would allow for that. That way we could be Clan Lamae or Clan Ravenwatch. One Clan clearly wants to prey and delight in drinking blood, the other is about controlling the bloodlust and using the vampiric powers for the benefit of others.
I would love to have that vampire bloodline dynamic and duality. Even if we could only join one blood line or the other.

I don't really care about how they implement it or the backstory, I just want my old vampire skills and passives back XD

and Yes I agree that you can only be one of the two at a time, being both at the same time would be weird lmao.

Noxavian · April 2020

MaskedHuman wrote: »

I've been playing a magdk ever since imperial city. and in pvp one of my favorite ults ever, even now is Devouring swarm. It deals good aoe damage, and has a flat healing number, which makes the healing good because it's not healing based off of damage done. Healing based off of damage done is absolutely garbage in pvp.

Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion. Bat scions (both morphs) are absolutely garbage.

Sure it gives you 10k max stats on health, stam and mag. and also gives you the ability to heal 15% off of damage done (which Is literally nothing when I tested it on the pts, even with all my dots active) It makes you stay in the form for 20 seconds, and for 20 whole seconds, YOU CAN'T GAIN ANY ULTIMATE. this is such a bad mechanic for a magdk player because then your sustain is completely butchered.

Speaking of sustain, 20% cost increase to abilities? really? even with 3 Infused cost reductions my coagulating blood costs 3613 and my engulfing flames cost 2738, without vamp. they go to 3011 and 2282.

So for being the new vamp, I get garbage sustain, for an ultimate that has terrible healing compared to Devouring swarm and makes my sustain ever worse because I won't be able to gain any ult.

this change doesn't benefit anyone unless it's a complete vampire build. I don't think anyone aside from RP purposes would want that. Here's what should be done instead:

Keep the new vampire lord skill line, and make another vampire skill line which can be considered a weaker vampire, and make that skill line the same as old vampire. Or keep vampire 2 ultimate, 1 is bat scion, and other is the old 2 bat swarm morphs.

If they bring back old vampire, then I want to see some better changes to the vampire rework. For example: Removal of mist form and in place put a bat-swarm dash. Make the ultimate function like a proper ultimate and not just a re-skin of the necro ult.

Basically at that point, I want 2 different bloodlines.

MaskedHuman · April 2020

Noxavian wrote: »

If they bring back old vampire, then I want to see some better changes to the vampire rework. For example: Removal of mist form and in place put a bat-swarm dash. Make the ultimate function like a proper ultimate and not just a re-skin of the necro ult.

Basically at that point, I want 2 different bloodlines.

the entire new vampire skill line, ability performance, visuals and passives all feel rushed and just extremely dumb because of the reasons I said above. I honestly don't want this patch to come just so I can still use the old vamp

josh.lackey_ESO · April 2020

They should introduce the new skill line as a different "clan" of vampires so you can get whichever one you want.

daim · April 2020

Do the same for NB!

..what? No? Bummer..

MaskedHuman · April 2020

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

They should introduce the new skill line as a different "clan" of vampires so you can get whichever one you want.

that would be best imho

Jeremy · April 2020

MaskedHuman wrote: »

I've been playing a magdk ever since imperial city. and in pvp one of my favorite ults ever, even now is Devouring swarm. It deals good aoe damage, and has a flat healing number, which makes the healing good because it's not healing based off of damage done. Healing based off of damage done is absolutely garbage in pvp.

Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion. Bat scions (both morphs) are absolutely garbage.

Sure it gives you 10k max stats on health, stam and mag. and also gives you the ability to heal 15% off of damage done (which Is literally nothing when I tested it on the pts, even with all my dots active) It makes you stay in the form for 20 seconds, and for 20 whole seconds, YOU CAN'T GAIN ANY ULTIMATE. this is such a bad mechanic for a magdk player because then your sustain is completely butchered.

Speaking of sustain, 20% cost increase to abilities? really? even with 3 Infused cost reductions my coagulating blood costs 3613 and my engulfing flames cost 2738, without vamp. they go to 3011 and 2282.

So for being the new vamp, I get garbage sustain, for an ultimate that has terrible healing compared to Devouring swarm and makes my sustain ever worse because I won't be able to gain any ult.

this change doesn't benefit anyone unless it's a complete vampire build. I don't think anyone aside from RP purposes would want that. Here's what should be done instead:

Keep the new vampire lord skill line, and make another vampire skill line which can be considered a weaker vampire, and make that skill line the same as old vampire. Or keep vampire 2 ultimate, 1 is bat scion, and other is the old 2 bat swarm morphs.

If you're having serious sustain problems with the new Vampire it's likely because your stage is too high for your fighting style. What I mean is: if your Vampire build incorporates a lot of regular abilities it's going to end up costing you more resources than saving you. The higher stages are designed for builds that focus more exclusively on Vampiric abilities.

So you may want to try reducing your stage and see if that helps.

In respect to devouring swarm, I'm in the opposite camp. I thought the old bat ultimate sucked after the nerf, where as this new one I rather like a lot. That being said, I don't have any objections to keeping the old one available for those who prefer it. Sounds like a reasonable request to me.

Jeremy · April 2020

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

They should introduce the new skill line as a different "clan" of vampires so you can get whichever one you want.

I would be fine with that. Just so long as I still have access to the Greymoor Vampires (which are far superior in every way if you ask me).

But that wouldn't address the problem of players just picking Vampire for their passives, which is something I've been told the developers are on record as wanting to get rid of.

Glurin · April 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

But that wouldn't address the problem of players just picking Vampire for their passives, which is something I've been told the developers are on record as wanting to get rid of.

As opposed to just picking vampire for their actives? Which, by the way, is something you've been advocating for a lot.

Jeremy · April 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

But that wouldn't address the problem of players just picking Vampire for their passives, which is something I've been told the developers are on record as wanting to get rid of.

As opposed to just picking vampire for their actives? Which, by the way, is something you've been advocating for a lot.

What I actually told you is that I believe the active skill line "defines" a Vampire more than just a passive or two does.

If someone wants to play as a vampire solely for their passives and ignore the skill line, then be my guest. I really could care less. But it's not what the developers have in mind.

Glurin · April 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

But that wouldn't address the problem of players just picking Vampire for their passives, which is something I've been told the developers are on record as wanting to get rid of.

As opposed to just picking vampire for their actives? Which, by the way, is something you've been advocating for a lot.

What I actually told you is that I believe the active skill line "defines" a Vampire more than just a passive or two does.

Which you are flat out wrong about. Active skills define what a vampire does, but those passives define what a vampire is. Without the passives, it's just another bunch of fancy kicks and punches with red special effects instead of blue or yellow. But you're so focused on making a magicka werewolf that you can't see that. You can't see the concept of a vampire as anything more than spamming bloody fingernails and turning into fog once in a while.

Jeremy · April 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

But that wouldn't address the problem of players just picking Vampire for their passives, which is something I've been told the developers are on record as wanting to get rid of.

As opposed to just picking vampire for their actives? Which, by the way, is something you've been advocating for a lot.

What I actually told you is that I believe the active skill line "defines" a Vampire more than just a passive or two does.

Which you are flat out wrong about. Active skills define what a vampire does, but those passives define what a vampire is. Without the passives, it's just another bunch of fancy kicks and punches with red special effects instead of blue or yellow. But you're so focused on making a magicka werewolf that you can't see that. You can't see the concept of a vampire as anything more than spamming bloody fingernails and turning into fog once in a while.

I said I believe the active skill line defines a Vampire more than a couple of passives do....

It's my opinion. You can disagree with me if you like. But I'm not "flat out wrong". It's what I believe whether you agree with it or not. lol

This also has nothing to do with this thread. I would prefer you stop seeking me out in other threads and bringing up unrelated material from that other one. That's just going to end up derailing these topics.

If you want to talk about that other thread, then I politely encourage you to do it there. I have been responding to all of your comments in that thread so there is no need to seek my attention here and elsewhere on those matters. I understand you seem to have some kind of feud with me now. But at least try to keep your vendetta contained.

Glurin · April 2020

You're the one running around telling people "let them eat cake". I'm just responding to it as I happen to see it.

Jeremy · April 2020

Glurin wrote: »

You're the one running around telling people "let them eat cake". I'm just responding to it as I happen to see it.

No. I am running around suggesting that people play their vampire at lower stages if they cannot sustain their build at the higher ones.

That's called offering suggestions and commenting about the game, which is the point of a forum. Where as you are following me around making things up (I have never once told anyone to eat cake.) and trying to insert baggage you have with me from other threads into new discussions.

Like I said, if you cannot let this go - then at least keep your vendetta contained in the appropriate thread. There is no need to splash it all over the place.

Ozby · April 2020

I do not agree with this. I like the Vampire rework and I do think it is a good idea to make it more like werewolf.
Everyone running around as a vamp for magika recovery passive makes the vampire skill line disappointing to me.
Just my opinion.

MaskedHuman · April 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

I've been playing a magdk ever since imperial city. and in pvp one of my favorite ults ever, even now is Devouring swarm. It deals good aoe damage, and has a flat healing number, which makes the healing good because it's not healing based off of damage done. Healing based off of damage done is absolutely garbage in pvp.

Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion. Bat scions (both morphs) are absolutely garbage.

Sure it gives you 10k max stats on health, stam and mag. and also gives you the ability to heal 15% off of damage done (which Is literally nothing when I tested it on the pts, even with all my dots active) It makes you stay in the form for 20 seconds, and for 20 whole seconds, YOU CAN'T GAIN ANY ULTIMATE. this is such a bad mechanic for a magdk player because then your sustain is completely butchered.

Speaking of sustain, 20% cost increase to abilities? really? even with 3 Infused cost reductions my coagulating blood costs 3613 and my engulfing flames cost 2738, without vamp. they go to 3011 and 2282.

So for being the new vamp, I get garbage sustain, for an ultimate that has terrible healing compared to Devouring swarm and makes my sustain ever worse because I won't be able to gain any ult.

this change doesn't benefit anyone unless it's a complete vampire build. I don't think anyone aside from RP purposes would want that. Here's what should be done instead:

Keep the new vampire lord skill line, and make another vampire skill line which can be considered a weaker vampire, and make that skill line the same as old vampire. Or keep vampire 2 ultimate, 1 is bat scion, and other is the old 2 bat swarm morphs.

If you're having serious sustain problems with the new Vampire it's likely because your stage is too high for your fighting style. What I mean is: if your Vampire build incorporates a lot of regular abilities it's going to end up costing you more resources than saving you. The higher stages are designed for builds that focus more exclusively on Vampiric abilities.

So you may want to try reducing your stage and see if that helps.

In respect to devouring swarm, I'm in the opposite camp. I thought the old bat ultimate sucked after the nerf, where as this new one I rather like a lot. That being said, I don't have any objections to keeping the old one available for those who prefer it. Sounds like a reasonable request to me.

Devouring swarm is far from sucking, I don't really mean to be that guy and plug my youtube videos, but I have a bunch of 1vx pvp magdk compilations, most fights being 3+ and sometimes 5+, and I've won those bigger fights because of timing my devouring swarm very well, I think it's a very good ultimate even after the nerf.

and about your new vampire point, if I reduce my vamp stage, then I increase my vamp abilities costs. there's no win situation with this. all the abilities are not worth it in my opinion, even the passives.

MaskedHuman · April 2020

Ozby wrote: »

I do not agree with this. I like the Vampire rework and I do think it is a good idea to make it more like werewolf.
Everyone running around as a vamp for magika recovery passive makes the vampire skill line disappointing to me.
Just my opinion.

I think it's a terrible idea to remove an entire skill line that has been around for YEARS and players got used to and feel good with. again, if they made a new skill line instead of removing the entire thing I would be happy with it

West93 · April 2020

Maybe learn to adjust instead of sticking to one play style.