20 percent healing reduction hurts lower healing specs more

Goregrinder · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

No, people should be able to play how they want, that's one of the great things about this game. People just shouldn't be able to load "Great healing, great damage, great defense, great sustain" into their shopping cart. Which is what the meta currently is. Everyone can self heal amazingly, can burst amazingly, have 30k resists, have max crit resists ( in BG's), have great sustain....almost every build is a swiss army knife when it comes to those main components.

Players should certainly have the choice of which of those they want their build to excell at, but ZOS isn't providing enough limits to what players can load on their builds.

Your contradicting yourself because you can't play solo as a choice if you can only choose a certain role. How will you get kills if you can only heal ? And if you can only do damage then you will die the second you meet any other player since you won't be able to restore your own hp.

Every player SHOULD be able to get a well rounded build, there is nothing wrong with that, it doesn't stop healers being important and much better at it than everyone else.

And no, not almost every player is running a build that strong. You make it seem like it's so easily accessible, when actually only a very small percentage of players can actually make a strong build, and even if they did copy a build they still would lack the skill to use it properly.

You can certainly chose to walk into Cyrdodiil by yourself ungrouped. No one is removing that choice away from players.

Crixus8000 · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

You can certainly chose to walk into Cyrdodiil by yourself ungrouped. No one is removing that choice away from players.

If you have no way of surviving by yourself then you can't win any fights since you would die in 1 second, and if you aren't allowed damage then what is even the point ? Your saying you should only be allowed to play a role, and that means being forced into a group to even play the game.

Goregrinder · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You can certainly chose to walk into Cyrdodiil by yourself ungrouped. No one is removing that choice away from players.

If you have no way of surviving by yourself then you can't win any fights since you would die in 1 second, and if you aren't allowed damage then what is even the point ? Your saying you should only be allowed to play a role, and that means being forced into a group to even play the game.

No, I am saying you should be allowed to play multiple roles if you want, but only excel at one of them. PVPing is also not just about stats, it's also about positioning, LOS-ing, and picking your fights, those aspects of PVP will remain un touched.

Crixus8000 · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

No, I am saying you should be allowed to play multiple roles if you want, but only excel at one of them. PVPing is also not just about stats, it's also about positioning, LOS-ing, and picking your fights, those aspects of PVP will remain un touched.

But isn't that already what no cp is ? You need to build for sustain and tankiness here, instead of basically getting it for free in cp. People can always kill each other in 1v1s here in my experience and no matter how tanky someone is all it takes is 2 players to kill them.

The only issue in my opinion currently is crosshealing.

Goregrinder · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

No, I am saying you should be allowed to play multiple roles if you want, but only excel at one of them. PVPing is also not just about stats, it's also about positioning, LOS-ing, and picking your fights, those aspects of PVP will remain un touched.

But isn't that already what no cp is ? You need to build for sustain and tankiness here, instead of basically getting it for free in cp. People can always kill each other in 1v1s here in my experience and no matter how tanky someone is all it takes is 2 players to kill them.

The only issue in my opinion currently is crosshealing.

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Crixus8000 · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it

It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Goregrinder · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Getting kills should definitely take skill...o should staying alive. RIght now staying alive is as easy as click 2 buttons and bar swapping.

Kidgangster101 · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Roles need to be important otherwise what's the difference between a MMORPG and call of duty?

The fact that healing is tied exactly to your damage is crazy. So again you lower damage then seperate healing into a different stat. That way healing is reduced unless you spec more into that stat (on live my vigor heals for 26k hp that's too much with the damage I can dish out).

By lowering the damage people can do you don't need as much self healing, but it also makes healing more unique.

Qbiken · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

First question = no
Second question = to a certain degree yes

mariuszeb17_ESO5 · April 2020

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

classes with less heals will be affected way more than a stamcro or dk who already overheal with 4k vigor ticks.
solo players are affected way more and self healing was fine anyway, ballgroups with 10k hps dont care.
This change is terrible for no cp and will make solo terrible, just nerf crosshealing and leave self heals alone :DD

This change is because stamcro had to press two buttons too long to kill NB. Now, in combination with the "Stuhn’s Favor" set, you will be able to do it with one hand on keyboard and beer in the other. Developers always know what they are doing.

Thedragonlolitucker · April 2020

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

classes with less heals will be affected way more than a stamcro or dk who already overheal with 4k vigor ticks.
solo players are affected way more and self healing was fine anyway, ballgroups with 10k hps dont care.
This change is terrible for no cp and will make solo terrible, just nerf crosshealing and leave self heals alone :DD

This change is because stamcro had to press two buttons too long to kill NB. Now, in combination with the "Stuhn’s Favor" set, you will be able to do it with one hand on keyboard and beer in the other. Developers always know what they are doing.

yep or toppling charge jabs and crescent sweep pog

Goregrinder · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Getting kills should definitely take skill...or should staying alive. RIght now staying alive is as easy as click 2 buttons and bar swapping.

Thedragonlolitucker · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Getting kills should definitely take skill...or should staying alive. RIght now staying alive is as easy as click 2 buttons and bar swapping.

yeah its so easy to 1vx and smallscale in no cp just press 2 buttons dont do anything else big true :DD

Crixus8000 · April 2020

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

yeah its so easy to 1vx and smallscale in no cp just press 2 buttons dont do anything else big true :DD

Apparently everyone is a 1vx god in cyrodil all running op builds. I must just be really lucky to be somehow avoiding them all.

Goregrinder · April 2020

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Getting kills should definitely take skill...or should staying alive. RIght now staying alive is as easy as click 2 buttons and bar swapping.

yeah its so easy to 1vx and smallscale in no cp just press 2 buttons dont do anything else big true :DD

It's easier than it should be, is the point. Just throw your hots up, maybe a shield, and go full offensive. EZPZ.

Crixus8000 · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

It's easier than it should be, is the point. Just throw your hots up, maybe a shield, and go full offensive. EZPZ.

Throw up hots and go offensive against what ? One player ? because no way that's possible if your fighting multiple people, unless they are complete potatos and then that isn't because your op, it's just because they are bad.

I think that's the biggest issue. People think someone performing well is because broken op things, when most of the time it's just because the opponents are terrible.

Cathexis · April 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

A DPS simply having a heal is one thing, a DPS not needing a healer at all is a whole other can of worms. A can I am glad ZOS is starting to hopefuly put a lid on.

This is not pve. Your literally saying no one should be able to play without having a healer with them, that's insane.

A player can have decent self healing, but it doesn't make a healer obselete, just look at the difference a healer makes in battlegrounds for example.

No, people should be able to play how they want, that's one of the great things about this game. People just shouldn't be able to load "Great healing, great damage, great defense, great sustain" into their shopping cart. Which is what the meta currently is. Everyone can self heal amazingly, can burst amazingly, have 30k resists, have max crit resists ( in BG's), have great sustain....almost every build is a swiss army knife when it comes to those main components.

Players should certainly have the choice of which of those they want their build to excell at, but ZOS isn't providing enough limits to what players can load on their builds.

In theory, this perspective sounds great. In practice, not having sufficient of any of those is like being a table with only one leg.

The original balance accounted for this by putting in soft caps, so that while players couldn't go over the top on any one thing, they could sacrifice for diminishing returns, and the necessary gear was in part dictated by race/class choice if you wanted to angle for a well balanced character.

The idea that you shouldn't be able to do one thing if you do another is problematic because in practice what happens is for example you have one class that will need 8 skills to mitigate damage while another only needs 6 or 2 or 1. That makes a significant difference in what you can allocate for offensive play, and makes the class system biased in favour of fewer defensively allocated resources.

The other problem is that

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Self healing is still insane in no CP, there are a lot of builds that can stay alive, heal, sustain, and burst people down like a hot knife cutting butter. All on one build. You just throw hots up, shields or armor buffs, then go in for your combo. I wear 5-1-1 light armor on my magplar and how much healing I have with how offensive I can be with how tanky I am is just broken honestly. Templar itself is performing well this patch, but it's amplified by the fact that I can build for all the things when I really shouldn't.

Healing is strong yes but so is damage. I have no issues bursting people down this patch at all, I don't think it's healthy gameplay to just nerf healing into the ground because people want an easy way to kill everyone fast. People die just fine now it just takes skill in timing and doing your combo and that's how it should be imo

But I guess this could go on forever, many do hate the healing and zos will probably continue to nerf it It's just a shame the solo players are the ones being nerfed all the time while groups are left basically untounched.

Roles need to be important otherwise what's the difference between a MMORPG and call of duty?

The fact that healing is tied exactly to your damage is crazy. So again you lower damage then seperate healing into a different stat. That way healing is reduced unless you spec more into that stat (on live my vigor heals for 26k hp that's too much with the damage I can dish out).

By lowering the damage people can do you don't need as much self healing, but it also makes healing more unique.

I feel like all these problems people are arguing about were maintained by softcaps and adjusting them accordingly so that you couldn't have too much of everything or a proportionally correct excess of one thing at a greater expense of other things.

Roles are important, you can still do roles without being hard bent in one direction in terms of stats. I can still be a healer with a jack of all trades build orrientation, but with caps being infinite, healing orrientation mandates healing gear.

angelofdeath333 · April 2020

Omg all these zerglings calling for nerfs all the *** time...the only reason a players can "tank" you open field is that you hit like a wet noodle, if 4 players only spam lightning-heavies and spam javelin on cooldown for free cc immunity then yes, a Good players can "tank" you (its not "tanking" in case you didnt know). A good defensive playstyle is what's keeping Them alive, Timing block with heals and dodgerolls. Other than that its all about line of sight, avoiding damage behind structures and wait for burstwindows because zerglings dont know how to heal when they think the are at an advantage.. its not doing "all three roles", its playing smart ffs.

(Oh i forgot the mandatory Jesus beam at full health, ooouuch that hurts alot, tank stronk pls nurf...)

Q_Q · April 2020

That’s what happens when no one can kill you. They nerf us.

SebDeTyra · April 2020

Tanks are too tanky whilst doing the same or more damage as something like a nightblade. You always see the immortal stamden or stamcro jumping around the field wanting people to chase them as they know they can't die.

PvP has become such a joke. Surely the devs see videos of stamcros taking on 20 players and still winning? I don't care how bad the players are, you shouldn't be able to survive that in any PvP game.

Q_Q · April 2020

SebDeTyra wrote: »

Tanks are too tanky whilst doing the same or more damage as something like a nightblade. You always see the immortal stamden or stamcro jumping around the field wanting people to chase them as they know they can't die.

PvP has become such a joke. Surely the devs see videos of stamcros taking on 20 players and still winning? I don't care how bad the players are, you shouldn't be able to survive that in any PvP game.

What’s wrong with 1v20? This game said I can play how I want. Now I play how I want and because people can’t kill me I get nerfed? Sounds balanced.

At least with this update 24 players can kill me easier. Happy y’all?

SebDeTyra · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

It's easier than it should be, is the point. Just throw your hots up, maybe a shield, and go full offensive. EZPZ.

Throw up hots and go offensive against what ? One player ? because no way that's possible if your fighting multiple people, unless they are complete potatos and then that isn't because your op, it's just because they are bad.

I think that's the biggest issue. People think someone performing well is because broken op things, when most of the time it's just because the opponents are terrible.

Someone performing well? So that's going to back bar and rotating your support skills then going into 2hand- dizzy spam mode and using either blasted or assault depending on which of the 2 over-performing stam classes currently, aoe down some people whilst wearing heavy armour, use dawn breaker if they're not dead etc etc

That play versus say a good nightblade or good sorc? Worlds apart. I could set a one button stamden macro on my trinity with delays going to buffs and going back to attack and get results. Braindead, probably even more so than jab spam as you can kill them easier.

Thedragonlolitucker · April 2020

SebDeTyra wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

It's easier than it should be, is the point. Just throw your hots up, maybe a shield, and go full offensive. EZPZ.

Throw up hots and go offensive against what ? One player ? because no way that's possible if your fighting multiple people, unless they are complete potatos and then that isn't because your op, it's just because they are bad.

I think that's the biggest issue. People think someone performing well is because broken op things, when most of the time it's just because the opponents are terrible.

Someone performing well? So that's going to back bar and rotating your support skills then going into 2hand- dizzy spam mode and using either blasted or assault depending on which of the 2 over-performing stam classes currently, aoe down some people whilst wearing heavy armour, use dawn breaker if they're not dead etc etc

That play versus say a good nightblade or good sorc? Worlds apart. I could set a one button stamden macro on my trinity with delays going to buffs and going back to attack and get results. Braindead, probably even more so than jab spam as you can kill them easier.

most of the ppl u think are in heavy are actually in medium, if its so easy u should try tho.
and no 1vxer uses macros lol

red_emu · April 2020

This blanket nerf is gonna hurt bad, especially in noCP.

Why not just change the battle spirit to:

Self heals -50%
Healing to other players -60/70%?

That would solve the problem of cross healing (which right now ticks at 10-12k hps for all group members).

Another big issue is purge. Organised groups literally can not be dotted, snared or stunned anymore and the only counter to that is ONE ultimate available to ONE class. And don't start me on targeting the healers in ball groups. With 100% uptime on Rapids/Purge/CC immunity it's simply impossible.

Giljabrar · April 2020

olsborg wrote: »

Stamsorc and stamblade are the worst selfhealers generally, and they will feel this more then any other class. So yes the blanket nerf to healing will only hit the "weaker healers" most, wich is a damn shame.

Can't speak for the Stamblades out there, but I would for sure argue against stamsorcs having low self healing. Vigor + Crit Surge coupled with Dark Deal healing is nothing to scoff at. If you fail to burst them in your CC, during the 6 seconds afterwards they're gonna Dark Deal back up to full.

By no means am I saying this is OP or anything, I'm just saying they're by no means weak in the healing department for Stamina.

Q_Q · April 2020

Nerhesi wrote: »

The problem with PvP is healing.

But, to be accurate, it is healing being available to builds that do great DPS. You can't have both. PvP needs meaningful choices. This is a start, but it can't just be alone. It affects everyone equally (and I assume this nerf will affect shields too) but it need a kiss-curse choice.

No would care if the class that can constantly heal/sustain itself does crap damage.

The prob with PvP is lag and performance. Are you new?