20 percent healing reduction hurts lower healing specs more

Thedragonlolitucker

classes with less heals will be affected way more than a stamcro or dk who already overheal with 4k vigor ticks.
solo players are affected way more and self healing was fine anyway, ballgroups with 10k hps dont care.
This change is terrible for no cp and will make solo terrible, just nerf crosshealing and leave self heals alone :DD

olsborg

Stamsorc and stamblade are the worst selfhealers generally, and they will feel this more then any other class. So yes the blanket nerf to healing will only hit the "weaker healers" most, wich is a damn shame.

FirmamentOfStars

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

classes with less heals will be affected way more than a stamcro or dk who already overheal with 4k vigor ticks.
solo players are affected way more and self healing was fine anyway, ballgroups with 10k hps dont care.
This change is terrible for no cp and will make solo terrible, just nerf crosshealing and leave self heals alone :DD

Actually agree with you. The problem never was overhealing in PvP and reducing healing through battle spirit will only hurt the classes with lower healing power.

First off this harms solo players and small scalers the most, since they have either no other healing sources than self healing or only a few through their group members. The smaller the group, the smaller the cross healing. On the other hand bigger groups, ball groups and zergs have plenty of dedicated healers or other sources, which results in overhealing. Therefore one way to actually resolve soem of the current PvP plagues is reducing healing received from other players. This could be included into battle spirit with a check, if the healing comes from the player itself or from a different player. If its from a different player, the healing amount can be reduced by like lets say 65-75% (compared to the actual 50% of the current battle spirit). This change actually would help smaller groups or solo players, but will never happen, since ZOS hates solo heroes and only want to nerf them.

Another problem the devs overlooked is the difference of cp and no cp PvP. In cp, where healing and mitigation is amplified by cps, some players and their builds seem to overheal. Meanwhile in no cp players already need all the healing they can.

So the change to battle spirit reducing healing by 60% instead of 50% actually only hurts the classes with less healing power or the ones highly dependent on healing, meanwhile other classes with less reliance on healing will not be affected as much. An example is the probably strongest magclass for open world PvP: magicka sorcerer. The class relies on damage shields and mobility tools like ball of lightning, which actually avoids damage to their health bars, therefore they have less need to heal up. Even if they get scratched, they have an overtuned heal with the matriarch, which will still be very potent even with the healing reduction. Compared to magsorcs, the other magclasses rely heavenly on healing power: Magplars, magdks, magnecroes, magblades and even stamblades will feel this change the most, since their healing isnt that strong compared to other stam classes or they are too dependent on burst healing like magplars and therefore will feel the 20% loss in healing power a lot. Meanwhile stamina dks and stamina wardens have very strong healing power and high vigor tooltips, therefore a reduction in healing will affect them less. Additionally stamdens also similar to magsorcs have quite some damage avoidance with shimmering shield, therefore less need to heal. Another story are stamina necromancers, which also have quite some healing power. They actually would feel the change to healing, but since they have so many passive mitigation sources, their damage taken is lessened by a lot and therefore they have to heal up less.

The average stamina build at the moment stacks different mitigation sources (top dog is stamina necromancer with in class major protection, 10% less damage through spirit guardian, 15% less damage from dots as passive and additional 3% when slotting deaden pain). Minor protection is almost an all time active buff on many classes: templar passives, wardens on ice fortress and with temporal guard as backbar ultimate. Additionally people often use major evasion for the aoe mitigation. Potentates is a very popular set currently and on many stamina builds spectral cloak (brp dual wield) is a staple. Those mitigation sources are paired with whatever in class source the players use together with other sources like minor maim. Players stack all those mitigation sources to reach high level of passive damege mitigation. Naturally people just do not see the enemies health bar moving and think it is their healing power, meanwhile its actually lots of mitigation so that their health bars together with heals do no move. I rather suggest to look at stacking mitigation sources instead of healing power, if you want to resolve the tank meta. Some class need high healing power, but most of them do not need as much mitigation as they have now. Most of those mitigation sources have quite the uptime, which in my eyes is a problem. Minor protection is always active on backbar with temporal guard or ice fortress. Minor maim through heroic/deep slash or thurvokuun has a very long timer. Spirit guardian and the necro passives are always up, same as major evasion or the nighblades grim focus mitigation stacks. People run around lots of passiv mitigation not really worrying about taking much damage. And even if they do, they have enough healing to easely heal through the diminished damagae taken.

In conclusion: Soloers and small scalers get punished, meanwhile ball group players and zergers wont feel anything. There is a huge difference between cp and no cp, where as in no cp every bit of healing is needed. Classes like magsorc avoiding damage taken to their health bars and aridiculous burst heal with matriarch wont feel the changes. Most stamina classes with some in class healing modifiers reach very high vigor and rally tooltips (if in medium), so that they have plenty of healing left even after changes. In the end stacking mitigation sources is a much bigger contributor to the tank meta than healing power, best example is stamnecro stacking tons of class passives and actives with evasion and brp dual wield to mitigate any significant incoming damage.

Nerhesi

The problem with PvP is healing.

But, to be accurate, it is healing being available to builds that do great DPS. You can't have both. PvP needs meaningful choices. This is a start, but it can't just be alone. It affects everyone equally (and I assume this nerf will affect shields too) but it need a kiss-curse choice.

No would care if the class that can constantly heal/sustain itself does crap damage.

FirmamentOfStars

Nerhesi wrote: »

The problem with PvP is healing.

But, to be accurate, it is healing being available to builds that do great DPS. You can't have both. PvP needs meaningful choices. This is a start, but it can't just be alone. It affects everyone equally (and I assume this nerf will affect shields too) but it need a kiss-curse choice.

No would care if the class that can constantly heal/sustain itself does crap damage.

You are wrong though, maybe read my post before or my short answer to your ridiculous suggestion in the other thread. The problem is stacking mitigations without draw backs and cross healing. Self healing is in a good state for most classes and this adjustement will especially hurt classes with low healing power and too much reliance on healing as only "defense".

katorga

My take away is that you don't like Sorcs or Necros and want them nerfed.

All of the classes have massive self healing power while maintaining decent damage. The change to battle spirit won't impact group/cross healing so people will still be complaining about healing after the patch.

Everyone has massive damage mitigation. Other than new players who haven't farmed BRP, I don't see any stamina build that can't have major evasion and protection on demand, and everything gives minor protection these days.

The nerf to impen will have more impact than healing, if ZOS guts it like they tend to do with "adjustments'. imo, if you can start wrecking with crit damage, the entire meta will shift.

Sneakers

People will start cry nerfs on dps/burst if you touch mitigation.

Lower healing a tiny tiny bit 5% then another 5% etc.
Slow game pace down (they did that already with their clunky attempt on doing away with ani cancels).

Your insane if you advocate for lessening mitigation when stam builds walk around with 18k effective self buffed dmg (editor objektive dps measurment).

My necro often take hits for 9k powerlash damage. Without healing you cant survive that. Mitigation from items/skills is a very
small portion of why some builds are so hard to kill.

AoE cc
Lag + LOS
Dodging

Is the main form of mitigation. When a shield tank pops ulti he is unkillable during those 7s..maybe that could be looked at. Blood spawn plus low shield ulti costs make for very small Windows to dp down a "tank".

But bad server performance is the main culprit for "impossible to kill players".

Its probably a bad idea to even mess with heal/dps ratios before servers actually work.

Xologamer

Nerhesi wrote: »

The problem with PvP is healing.

But, to be accurate, it is healing being available to builds that do great DPS. You can't have both. PvP needs meaningful choices. This is a start, but it can't just be alone. It affects everyone equally (and I assume this nerf will affect shields too) but it need a kiss-curse choice.

No would care if the class that can constantly heal/sustain itself does crap damage.

if u have high dmg throw max stam and weapon dmg than u have good heal as well because both scale with same stats u allways have both if u have high dmg

[Edit to remove bait]

leepalmer95

katorga wrote: »

My take away is that you don't like Sorcs or Necros and want them nerfed.

All of the classes have massive self healing power while maintaining decent damage. The change to battle spirit won't impact group/cross healing so people will still be complaining about healing after the patch.

Everyone has massive damage mitigation. Other than new players who haven't farmed BRP, I don't see any stamina build that can't have major evasion and protection on demand, and everything gives minor protection these days.

The nerf to impen will have more impact than healing, if ZOS guts it like they tend to do with "adjustments'. imo, if you can start wrecking with crit damage, the entire meta will shift.

There is going to be passive crit res in the battle spirit. So if anything people can drop a few impen for sturdy.

Urzigurumash

katorga wrote: »

The nerf to impen will have more impact than healing, if ZOS guts it like they tend to do with "adjustments'. imo, if you can start wrecking with crit damage, the entire meta will shift.

Don't forget about the Malacath ring.

leepalmer95

Urzigurumash wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

The nerf to impen will have more impact than healing, if ZOS guts it like they tend to do with "adjustments'. imo, if you can start wrecking with crit damage, the entire meta will shift.

Don't forget about the Malacath ring.

That'll depend on the specs of build using it. It wont be too great on a nb or templar for example.

Urzigurumash

leepalmer95 wrote: »

That'll depend on the specs of build using it. It wont be too great on a nb or templar for example.

For sure. It will definitely prohibit there being any "crit meta" though, and in a good number of 1v1 engagements Impen is going to be completely useless, which is interesting.

Nerhesi

Urzigurumash wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

That'll depend on the specs of build using it. It wont be too great on a nb or templar for example.

For sure. It will definitely prohibit there being any "crit meta" though, and in a good number of 1v1 engagements Impen is going to be completely useless, which is interesting.

Yes - but if you now choose to follow that approach and ignore Impen because of Malacath ring - I can imagine someone will come by and blow you up so very hard if they're not using it. I think it may be safer to end up using Malacath ring and impen.

Thedragonlolitucker

dueling a necro on pts as a stamblade, i can almost never heal to full.
great change <33 :DDDD

Crixus8000

Healing feels so terrible now in no cp. And the really dumb thing is that the groups won't even notice it since they have cross healing anyway.

To make things worse they nerf defensive monster sets to the point of being terrible and then add a 13k pen set, buff gankers that will now have 7-8k wep dmg and even buff zaan lol.

Thedragonlolitucker

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Healing feels so terrible now in no cp. And the really dumb thing is that the groups won't even notice it since they have cross healing anyway.

To make things worse they nerf defensive monster sets to the point of being terrible and then add a 13k pen set, buff gankers that will now have 7-8k wep dmg and even buff zaan lol.

yeah fighting 5 ppl while ur vigor ticks for 900 and being hit by dswing leap with pen set xdd

Goregrinder

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

Crixus8000

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Goregrinder

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

Thedragonlolitucker

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

eso is not a game like this, u should be able to build with a balance between these things

Crixus8000

Goregrinder wrote: »

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

Yes, what happened to play how you want ?

If you can only do one of those 3 things then that means you would need to always be in a group of at least 3 people and that is just ridiculous.

People say this as an excuse to why certain things need to be nerfed, but nothing is stoping those same players from making a well rounded build too, it's just that they can't so instead they want others nerfed, and it's not fair.

Kidgangster101

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

Yes, what happened to play how you want ?

If you can only do one of those 3 things then that means you would need to always be in a group of at least 3 people and that is just ridiculous.

People say this as an excuse to why certain things need to be nerfed, but nothing is stoping those same players from making a well rounded build too, it's just that they can't so instead they want others nerfed, and it's not fair.

No I have to disagree with you for sure. The problem is everyone plays every role. It is due to armor/cp. Look at all these things nerfed over and over and over...... That doesn't tell you something about the game?

It is a MMO you aren't playing Elder Solo Online...... The actual problem is them adjusting things for solo play. Cyrodil is supposed to be zerg vs zerg vs zerg. BG is supposed to be 4v4v4 where in those modes is it solo?

If you can heal/dps/tank that isn't good for the game. It leads to problems like this where we have now swung way left. We just had lots of def sets nerfed and they introduced lots of penetration. So now we will have squishier builds and crazy high pen....... So what next we will say those pen sets are op because people can't live?

The real problem is damage it always will be the problem because people don't understand that if you can build all weapon damage to get 6k+ that improves your healing then you have like max resists (yes light/medium builds can achieve this it's not just heavy armor) they shouldn't be attached period.

Lower damage (people build tanky because they want to PVP not die in 2 seconds) then you make healing a seperate stat then you lower mitigation (there is a lot of it that every class can access).

If you seperate healing tanks can't survive forever or they won't kill someone due to lack of damage. It's really not hard but everyone is "but but but my dps" to balance the game you need roles, you need to stop catering to solo players just trying to copy a YouTube build of a guy that 1vX. Look fury got nerfed and it's still best in slot..... Because you raised your weapon damage crazy it's silly and just stupid.

Crixus8000

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

No I have to disagree with you for sure. The problem is everyone plays every role. It is due to armor/cp. Look at all these things nerfed over and over and over...... That doesn't tell you something about the game?

It is a MMO you aren't playing Elder Solo Online...... The actual problem is them adjusting things for solo play. Cyrodil is supposed to be zerg vs zerg vs zerg. BG is supposed to be 4v4v4 where in those modes is it solo?

If you can heal/dps/tank that isn't good for the game. It leads to problems like this where we have now swung way left. We just had lots of def sets nerfed and they introduced lots of penetration. So now we will have squishier builds and crazy high pen....... So what next we will say those pen sets are op because people can't live?

The real problem is damage it always will be the problem because people don't understand that if you can build all weapon damage to get 6k+ that improves your healing then you have like max resists (yes light/medium builds can achieve this it's not just heavy armor) they shouldn't be attached period.

Lower damage (people build tanky because they want to PVP not die in 2 seconds) then you make healing a seperate stat then you lower mitigation (there is a lot of it that every class can access).

If you seperate healing tanks can't survive forever or they won't kill someone due to lack of damage. It's really not hard but everyone is "but but but my dps" to balance the game you need roles, you need to stop catering to solo players just trying to copy a YouTube build of a guy that 1vX. Look fury got nerfed and it's still best in slot..... Because you raised your weapon damage crazy it's silly and just stupid.

Solo doesn't get catered to, solo is what always get's nerfed. The monster set and healign changes won't affect ballgroups or zergs, but will hurt solo badly.

And again your thinking of cp, you can't rock 6k wep dmg and tank a zerg in no cp. Cp is unbalanced and carries. Like I said I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, the only healing that is overpowered is cross healing.

Also I don't understand why you think pvp should only be zergs. It's open world pvp and you SHOULD be able to play however you want, if that's solo, smallscale, ballgroup, zerg, gank or whatever. And I think your wrong that having roles would create balance, this community complains about everything. If there was only 3 roles people would still complain just as much about tanks that can't die, damage dealers 1 shotting them and overpowered healers. Only difference is that the game would be dumbed down with less options of playstyles and builds.

Goregrinder

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

eso is not a game like this, u should be able to build with a balance between these things

A balance means give and take, not take take take. RIght now you can eat your cake and have it. You should have high damage and low heals, or high heals and low damage. Should we all be able to perform every role well with a single build?

Thedragonlolitucker

Goregrinder wrote: »

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

eso is not a game like this, u should be able to build with a balance between these things

A balance means give and take, not take take take. RIght now you can eat your cake and have it. You should have high damage and low heals, or high heals and low damage. Should we all be able to perform every role well with a single build?

r u serious weapon/spell damage boost your healing, do you even play this game at all

Crixus8000

Goregrinder wrote: »

A balance means give and take, not take take take. RIght now you can eat your cake and have it. You should have high damage and low heals, or high heals and low damage. Should we all be able to perform every role well with a single build?

Do you even know what role means ? First of all there isn't a tank role in pvp, except to troll some battleground games. In cyrodil tanks do nothing, you just walk past them because they have no damage.

Now your complaining about people having good damage, healing and tankiness but that isn't being all 3 rolls, just because a person can decently heal themselves doesn't mean they are a healer, or can supply huge group heals and buffs to friends like a true healer can and if you actually played pvp you would see what a huge difference an actual healer makes to a group.

Goregrinder

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to have high damage, great defensives, great heals, great sustain, great mitigation, great range, etc. Right now most PVP builds can do all of those things really well. You should have to pick 3 of those things to be great at, but fail in the rest. The game right now facilitates people great at healing yourself while being able to deal damage while being able to tank while being able to hit at range, etc.

Why run with a healer when you are your own pocket heals? Healing is absurb in PVP right now and I'm glad ZOS is nerfing it.

I get that it's an mmo, but you should not be forced to group with a healer just to play a game lol.

And tbh the issue is cp pvp, it's a huge carry and allows for op stuff, you never run low on sustain and can just tank easily, yet everyone cries and then no cp gets nerfed because of it. It's so annoying.

I have no issues killing anyone in no cp, and most of the people I see complain about tank meta are just bad players who clearly have bad builds and lack damage.

Battlegrounds is different but they should nerf cross healing, not all healing and defensive sets.

Player's shouldn't be forced to pick a role and stick to that role? They should instead be able to do all roles by themselves at all times?

eso is not a game like this, u should be able to build with a balance between these things

A balance means give and take, not take take take. RIght now you can eat your cake and have it. You should have high damage and low heals, or high heals and low damage. Should we all be able to perform every role well with a single build?

r u serious weapon/spell damage boost your healing, do you even play this game at all

WHat did I miss? Does weapon and spell damage not boost healing now?

Goregrinder

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

A balance means give and take, not take take take. RIght now you can eat your cake and have it. You should have high damage and low heals, or high heals and low damage. Should we all be able to perform every role well with a single build?

Do you even know what role means ? First of all there isn't a tank role in pvp, except to troll some battleground games. In cyrodil tanks do nothing, you just walk past them because they have no damage.

Now your complaining about people having good damage, healing and tankiness but that isn't being all 3 rolls, just because a person can decently heal themselves doesn't mean they are a healer, or can supply huge group heals and buffs to friends like a true healer can and if you actually played pvp you would see what a huge difference an actual healer makes to a group.

A DPS simply having a heal is one thing, a DPS not needing a healer at all is a whole other can of worms. A can I am glad ZOS is starting to hopefuly put a lid on.

Crixus8000

Goregrinder wrote: »

A DPS simply having a heal is one thing, a DPS not needing a healer at all is a whole other can of worms. A can I am glad ZOS is starting to hopefuly put a lid on.

This is not pve. Your literally saying no one should be able to play without having a healer with them, that's insane.

A player can have decent self healing, but it doesn't make a healer obselete, just look at the difference a healer makes in battlegrounds for example.

Goregrinder

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

A DPS simply having a heal is one thing, a DPS not needing a healer at all is a whole other can of worms. A can I am glad ZOS is starting to hopefuly put a lid on.

This is not pve. Your literally saying no one should be able to play without having a healer with them, that's insane.

A player can have decent self healing, but it doesn't make a healer obselete, just look at the difference a healer makes in battlegrounds for example.

No, people should be able to play how they want, that's one of the great things about this game. People just shouldn't be able to load "Great healing, great damage, great defense, great sustain" into their shopping cart. Which is what the meta currently is. Everyone can self heal amazingly, can burst amazingly, have 30k resists, have max crit resists ( in BG's), have great sustain....almost every build is a swiss army knife when it comes to those main components.

Players should certainly have the choice of which of those they want their build to excell at, but ZOS isn't providing enough limits to what players can load on their builds.

Crixus8000

Goregrinder wrote: »

No, people should be able to play how they want, that's one of the great things about this game. People just shouldn't be able to load "Great healing, great damage, great defense, great sustain" into their shopping cart. Which is what the meta currently is. Everyone can self heal amazingly, can burst amazingly, have 30k resists, have max crit resists ( in BG's), have great sustain....almost every build is a swiss army knife when it comes to those main components.

Players should certainly have the choice of which of those they want their build to excell at, but ZOS isn't providing enough limits to what players can load on their builds.

Your contradicting yourself because you can't play solo as a choice if you can only choose a certain role. How will you get kills if you can only heal ? And if you can only do damage then you will die the second you meet any other player since you won't be able to restore your own hp.

Every player SHOULD be able to get a well rounded build, there is nothing wrong with that, it doesn't stop healers being important and much better at it than everyone else.

And no, not almost every player is running a build that strong. You make it seem like it's so easily accessible, when actually only a very small percentage of players can actually make a strong build, and even if they did copy a build they still would lack the skill to use it properly.