Why queue times are so long?

majulook · April 2020

The Que tool (Group Finder) is still always having issues.

If I had a nickel for every time I was in a pre-made group of 4 and still could not get the tool to port us in to the dungeon. I believe I would have enough to pay for a couple of months of ESO+.

Urvoth · April 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

It’s because the majority of the player base consists of causal questers who don’t do group content like dungeons, trials, BGs, etc. Queuing as a dps will always take longer but the root cause of a lot of ESO’s grouping and community issues is that a lot of the player base are uber-casuals.

No, I don't think that's quite right. Or maybe I should say it's not the whole picture.

But lets just go with that premise for now. If those "uber-csuals" were to all queue for dungeons, what do you think they'd queue up as? Maybe a few healers and maybe a few tanks, but the vast majority would queue as DPS, which would only exacerbate the issue of there not being enough tanks and healers to go around.

Furthermore, lots of casuals would like to do dungeons but are afraid to because the elitists keep telling them they need incredibly high DPS just to get in the front door. Meanwhile the underlying reason those elitists want super high DPS is specifically so that they can skip mechanics, which they often don't know how to deal with themselves because they always expect to skip over them. In truth, most of those casual players do have the ability to complete those dungeons, if someone would take the ten seconds required to explain the more important mechanics before engaging each boss.

Uhh what? No one tells them they need incredibly high dps because those players don't even interact with people at those levels. If they're worried about their dps, they can practice on a parse dummy, it's really not hard. 30 minutes of parse practice and watching a couple basic youtube videos is really all you need to get a basic idea about your rotation. They also have the option of actually grouping with people instead of just solo queuing into stuff.

robertthebard · April 2020

Urvoth wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

It’s because the majority of the player base consists of causal questers who don’t do group content like dungeons, trials, BGs, etc. Queuing as a dps will always take longer but the root cause of a lot of ESO’s grouping and community issues is that a lot of the player base are uber-casuals.

No, I don't think that's quite right. Or maybe I should say it's not the whole picture.

But lets just go with that premise for now. If those "uber-csuals" were to all queue for dungeons, what do you think they'd queue up as? Maybe a few healers and maybe a few tanks, but the vast majority would queue as DPS, which would only exacerbate the issue of there not being enough tanks and healers to go around.

Furthermore, lots of casuals would like to do dungeons but are afraid to because the elitists keep telling them they need incredibly high DPS just to get in the front door. Meanwhile the underlying reason those elitists want super high DPS is specifically so that they can skip mechanics, which they often don't know how to deal with themselves because they always expect to skip over them. In truth, most of those casual players do have the ability to complete those dungeons, if someone would take the ten seconds required to explain the more important mechanics before engaging each boss.

Uhh what? No one tells them they need incredibly high dps because those players don't even interact with people at those levels. If they're worried about their dps, they can practice on a parse dummy, it's really not hard. 30 minutes of parse practice and watching a couple basic youtube videos is really all you need to get a basic idea about your rotation. They also have the option of actually grouping with people instead of just solo queuing into stuff.

Have you read this thread? I have, and I came away with a different conclusion to what they tell them than you seem to have come away with, or we wouldn't be reading about 10k vs 20k dps, right?

In regard to queue times, I'm going to share an example from swtor that will reflect the issue here, and everywhere where there's a trinity type system in place, that's "tank, healer and dps".

My guild leader and I queue up for Flash Point, which is more akin to a Public dungeon here on DPS toons. 45 minutes later, it's getting late, and we really want to get it done, so we swap to tank/healer. It literally took 2 seconds for the first queue to pop, but one of the DPS apparently fell asleep waiting, because they missed the queue, and the second queue took less than a minute to pop.

This, more than anything else, is what causes long queue times. There are a shortage of tanks and/or healers that are willing to PuG. It's not exclusive to here, and frankly, I'm left believing that this is the only MMO some of us in this thread have ever played if they don't know this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ivtJD0t9M4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4&t=63s

Some context to why this a thing.

Mancombe_Nosehair · April 2020

As a real tank, I am finding that there is also a shortage of healers when I pug.

Linaleah · April 2020

this above (though flashpoints are not like public dungeons, they are like regular dungeons, they just have more difficulty settings)

in every mmo EVER that has trinity? there is a shortage of healers/tanks and longer wait times for dps. even in MMO's that try to reduce the issue by having groups allow for 3-4 dps to every tank/healer - dps still wait longer. in ESO its also slightly exacerbated by the fact that i trials, the ration of tanks/healers to dps is 3 dps to each suport doo, while dungeons only call for 2 dps. the only ONLY way NOT to wait longer is either play a tank or healer, OR make friends with a few.

robertthebard · April 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

this above (though flashpoints are not like public dungeons, they are like regular dungeons, they just have more difficulty settings)

in every mmo EVER that has trinity? there is a shortage of healers/tanks and longer wait times for dps. even in MMO's that try to reduce the issue by having groups allow for 3-4 dps to every tank/healer - dps still wait longer. in ESO its also slightly exacerbated by the fact that i trials, the ration of tanks/healers to dps is 3 dps to each suport doo, while dungeons only call for 2 dps. the only ONLY way NOT to wait longer is either play a tank or healer, OR make friends with a few.

Yeah, that's correct, I forgot that other players can come into Public dungeons, and the FPs are instanced.

BlueRaven · April 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

this above (though flashpoints are not like public dungeons, they are like regular dungeons, they just have more difficulty settings)

in every mmo EVER that has trinity? there is a shortage of healers/tanks and longer wait times for dps. even in MMO's that try to reduce the issue by having groups allow for 3-4 dps to every tank/healer - dps still wait longer. in ESO its also slightly exacerbated by the fact that i trials, the ration of tanks/healers to dps is 3 dps to each suport doo, while dungeons only call for 2 dps. the only ONLY way NOT to wait longer is either play a tank or healer, OR make friends with a few.

robertthebard wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

this above (though flashpoints are not like public dungeons, they are like regular dungeons, they just have more difficulty settings)

in every mmo EVER that has trinity? there is a shortage of healers/tanks and longer wait times for dps. even in MMO's that try to reduce the issue by having groups allow for 3-4 dps to every tank/healer - dps still wait longer. in ESO its also slightly exacerbated by the fact that i trials, the ration of tanks/healers to dps is 3 dps to each suport doo, while dungeons only call for 2 dps. the only ONLY way NOT to wait longer is either play a tank or healer, OR make friends with a few.

Yeah, that's correct, I forgot that other players can come into Public dungeons, and the FPs are instanced.

This is what I have been trying to communicate. Outside of dungeons in PvE, tanks (and healers) have it rough. If they made the roles fun to play OUTSIDE of group activity we would see a lot more of them.

robertthebard · April 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

this above (though flashpoints are not like public dungeons, they are like regular dungeons, they just have more difficulty settings)

in every mmo EVER that has trinity? there is a shortage of healers/tanks and longer wait times for dps. even in MMO's that try to reduce the issue by having groups allow for 3-4 dps to every tank/healer - dps still wait longer. in ESO its also slightly exacerbated by the fact that i trials, the ration of tanks/healers to dps is 3 dps to each suport doo, while dungeons only call for 2 dps. the only ONLY way NOT to wait longer is either play a tank or healer, OR make friends with a few.

robertthebard wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

this above (though flashpoints are not like public dungeons, they are like regular dungeons, they just have more difficulty settings)

in every mmo EVER that has trinity? there is a shortage of healers/tanks and longer wait times for dps. even in MMO's that try to reduce the issue by having groups allow for 3-4 dps to every tank/healer - dps still wait longer. in ESO its also slightly exacerbated by the fact that i trials, the ration of tanks/healers to dps is 3 dps to each suport doo, while dungeons only call for 2 dps. the only ONLY way NOT to wait longer is either play a tank or healer, OR make friends with a few.

Yeah, that's correct, I forgot that other players can come into Public dungeons, and the FPs are instanced.

This is what I have been trying to communicate. Outside of dungeons in PvE, tanks (and healers) have it rough. If they made the roles fun to play OUTSIDE of group activity we would see a lot more of them.

This is something that one can fix for themselves, when they know they're just going to be doing OW PvE stuff, and have at least a dps weapon set up to run with. I know it's what I did.

Hotdog_23 · April 2020

Activity finder still not working for me. On a real tank character and waited over an hour again today and it still would not pop with a dungeon. Going on 8 days now dungeon finder has been broken.

Tigerseye · April 2020

I think there is a bug, right now.

Was in a queue today (it's a Sunday!) for a rnd and didn't get an inv for at least 30 mins, then had to log (so, could have been longer).

That definitely isn't normal; DPS, or not

Olen_Mikko · April 2020

The ratio of dd's and healers / tanks is like 5:1.

If i queue with my healer or tank, i usually don't have to wait at all.

Tigerseye · April 2020

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

The ratio of dd's and healers / tanks is like 5:1.

If i queue with my healer or tank, i usually don't have to wait at all.

Yeah, but even then, you normally don't have to wait more than 10 mins, maximum for a rnd and maybe 20 mins for a specific dungeon.

jm42 · April 2020

mb they should give an option to queue for 3-dd, 4-dd runs separately)

Sarannah · April 2020

The reasons are few, but ones that impact the playstyle alot. Tanks and healers can't really quest or do zone content in any game. Then when they queue as tank or healer, and something goes wrong(whatever it is), the tanks and healers are 99.99% of the time blamed.
And people usually do not use nice words when they feel someone is in the wrong. Meaning that often the fun is sucked out of the game for those roles.

So even with extra rewards or easy role swapping... there would still hardly be any incentive for players to play those roles. And this is obvious, as most players rather choose to sit out an hour queue than be healer or tank.

Tsar_Gekkou · April 2020

A lot of people like to dps because the alternative is getting matched up with dds doing 4-digit damage who stand in every aoe, even though they themselves are like that. I only hit around 35K, but it seems miles ahead of the average pug I get matched up with. The problem is that if I want to spend under an hour in a normal dungeon, I have to queue on my dps and wait at least an hour to get into a dungeon. But if I queue on a healer, it takes much less time to get into a dungeon, but I have to browse online or do something else while spamming regen for the group that takes 10 minutes to kill one boss on a normal non-dlc dungeon. I'm screwed out of playtime either way, but I might as well try and get lucky with the queue on my dps.

xXMeowMeowXx · April 2020

•Join a good guild
•Make reliable friends that do dungeons
•Bypass GF wait times all together.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · April 2020

Yes, like most MMOs, this game is short on tanks and healers, but the reason is not that you can't play the rest of the game if you build for a group support role. If you think this is the case, I would ask you to reconsider.

If you play a support role, you really should be prepared to change your setup somewhat when you want to play solo. You can't expect to fight solo without using at least some damage skills. However, you need to change very little.

As a healer or tank, I can get away with just swapping a few skills to have enough damage to get me through quests, overland content, delves and even solo runs of public dungeons. Mowing down a world boss solo can be a bit too time consuming to enjoy, but I don't really have to do those fights alone.

So, if you think getting into healing or tanking by necessity would make your solo play a painful experience, think again, and please consider trying it!

Eifleber · April 2020

Queues have gotten a lot slower the last few week.

As healer I usually got a team within 5 minutes. Nowadays it's no exception that it goes over 10m, 15 minutes.
Indeed, the tanks must be on strike.

Strange thing is that the queue sometimes doesn't seem to work. If we queue as 4-player t-dd-dd-h team it sometimes happens that you don't get into a dungeon immediately. Weird.

Zulera301 · April 2020

queue times are long because you're a DPS. if you get into a random dungeon under 45 minutes it's fast. if you get into a specific dungeon that isn't a pledge in under 2 hours, you're lucky.

and because only like 10 people actually willingly choose DLC dungeons to queue for, because most of them are long miserable slogs of playing Simon Says with potatoes.

but if you want in faster, just queue as a tank.

Hotdog_23 · April 2020

Eifleber wrote: »

Queues have gotten a lot slower the last few week.

As healer I usually got a team within 5 minutes. Nowadays it's no exception that it goes over 10m, 15 minutes.
Indeed, the tanks must be on strike.

Strange thing is that the queue sometimes doesn't seem to work. If we queue as 4-player t-dd-dd-h team it sometimes happens that you don't get into a dungeon immediately. Weird.

The problem is activity finder is not working right for some people. I have not been able to do any dungeon in 10 days now and counting thru activity finder. Waited over an hour on a tank character multiple times and it never pop up neither can I leave queue. Seems I am not the only person either.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · April 2020

I specifically made a tank for my guild to be able to run pledges.

mobicera · April 2020

I'm not sure a lack of tank has much to do with questing...
I have 6 tanks 1 of each class only 1 has done any non dungeon quests in game.
I que with randoms as my tank when I'm bored, when most people I generally play with are busy, when I'm not feeling very talkative.
I never go in expecting anything...
After the vet random base game dungeon took an hour or after 2 hours in a vdlc that should have taken 20-30 you just don't want to que for another pug for a month, lol
Its actually the atrocious dps, the healers with ice staffs, the people screaming at others, blaming people because they die when they have 11k hp and their rotation consists of crit surge x10, heavy attacks with ice staff...
I can't do that crap every day lol
Occasionally you get lucky, the lottery pays out sometimes, but not enough...

BXR_Lonestar · April 2020

I'm gunna weigh in and just say there is not a lot of loot incentive to run dungeons all the time. My group has done most of them on vet now and unless we're farming to get a specific piece, we typically don't run to the Plegemasters and run the pledges or other dungeons anymore.

When you have all the monster helms you currently want/need, and when there is no reason to farm a particular dungeon, what use is earning another key? The drops are most certainly going to be dismantled. Transmute gems? Not nearly enough are rewarded for my time investment when compared to how much I can earn in PVP just from rewards of the worthy packages, nevermind the end of campaign rewards.

If they upped the amount of transmute gems you get for running a veteran dungeon from 2-4 to 5-10 per geode box, or gave you a chance at getting gold items for completing hard modes, then it would be worthwhile to run vet dungeons every day. As of right now, there's really not a lot of incentive outside of farming to run them after a certain point. And obviously, this is going to reduce the amount of people using the que, which contributes to long load times.

I'm not saying other things aren't at play too - people avoiding pug groups for hard content, not enough tanks/healers in que, etc., but this is just one more issue to add to the pile of issues which make the dungeon que faulty.

BackStabeth · April 2020

Regardless of whatever the issues are, regardless if it's people wanting to play DPS, or not enough tanks, or healers, or whatever the reason might be there is a serious problem and it needs to be addressed. Maybe ZoS need to make dungeons where tanks are not required? Maybe they need to change tanks in some way that causes people to want to play them?

Whatever it is, ZoS need to address it, queue times are stupid long.

kichwas · April 2020

Kurat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Go on a tank and just try to do some basic quests.
Going through a delve solo is painful.
Doing a daily quest that requires any form of mob killing is painful.

Being a tank with the help of a dps is not an issue, being a tank and doing everything else pve related in the game solo is not enjoyable. How many times have you seen someone with a sword and shield out in “the wild”?

Lmao. All you gotta do is change sets. If you're on pc, its even easier with addons. I put on hundigs and vo and overland mobs melt in 2 sec. No need to change cp or mundus. Just change to blue food and u got 30k stam and weps golded, I can easily do 20k on single target. That's more than enough for guesting or dvelves.

I just got my first character to 50 - a templar tank. It's not hard to solo as a tank at all... and it's also super easy to just spend a few extra skill points and have some DPS skills on the skill bar.

You don't even need sets at this point...

Outside of group content, you can do the game in white and green gear on a bad build just fine...

Sets, champion points, gold gear, etc - only becomes important once you hit group content. And even then on a bad build and bad gear you can do dungeons up to everything that unlocks by level 40. The DLC ones that unlock at 45 - that won't require a vet-dungeon set, but it does start to require "something".

Honestly I am tempted to get a group together and farm delves and normal dungeons in underwear WITHOUT any weapons equipped - just whatever skills we have on our skill bars. Nothing equiped, and see up to what level we get before it gets hard.
- and then try it out in the open world too... (which I suppose I could do solo... with my tank...)

BlueRaven · April 2020

kichwas wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Go on a tank and just try to do some basic quests.
Going through a delve solo is painful.
Doing a daily quest that requires any form of mob killing is painful.

Being a tank with the help of a dps is not an issue, being a tank and doing everything else pve related in the game solo is not enjoyable. How many times have you seen someone with a sword and shield out in “the wild”?

Lmao. All you gotta do is change sets. If you're on pc, its even easier with addons. I put on hundigs and vo and overland mobs melt in 2 sec. No need to change cp or mundus. Just change to blue food and u got 30k stam and weps golded, I can easily do 20k on single target. That's more than enough for guesting or dvelves.

I just got my first character to 50 - a templar tank. It's not hard to solo as a tank at all... and it's also super easy to just spend a few extra skill points and have some DPS skills on the skill bar.

You don't even need sets at this point...

Outside of group content, you can do the game in white and green gear on a bad build just fine...

Sets, champion points, gold gear, etc - only becomes important once you hit group content. And even then on a bad build and bad gear you can do dungeons up to everything that unlocks by level 40. The DLC ones that unlock at 45 - that won't require a vet-dungeon set, but it does start to require "something".

Honestly I am tempted to get a group together and farm delves and normal dungeons in underwear WITHOUT any weapons equipped - just whatever skills we have on our skill bars. Nothing equiped, and see up to what level we get before it gets hard.
- and then try it out in the open world too... (which I suppose I could do solo... with my tank...)

Or you can just roll a dps and do quests quicker without the extra hassle of acquiring extra gear/skill points. That seems easier, right?

Anyway, this thread seems to think giving tanks/healer a harder time is just fine, and then wonders why the wait for a tank or healer is so long. So you guys be you, good luck watching YouTube for an hour plus while you wait for your dungeon to finally ping.