Converting Flat Pen on Balorgh and Stuhn into Percent Penetration
J2JMC
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Title is self-explanatory. If the goal with the balorgh change is to make it hit harder against high armor targets, while being weaker against low armor targets, then the penetration should be percent based and not flat. The pts version of the set being weaker on lower armor targets is only true if the target's armor is lower than the amount of pen gained from balorgh. Otherwise, the set is equally effective against both low and high armor targets. Even then, you're not going to be worried about over penetrating. In scenarios where the excess pen is wasted against a low armor target, the rest of the build is generally going to have enough damage built in to kill the target since you will be dealing true damage.
The second part of Balorgh should read something like: ...gain 1% of armor penetration for every 10 ultimate spent. Using these numbers, the break even point compared to the pts version of the set would be 23k armor. So at 500 ultimate, a target with 23k armor would have 11,500 points of their armor ignored. This change would make the set even stronger against high armor targets, while ensuring that it requires extra investment to get true damage against low armor targets.
I also think the same balancing principle should be applied to stuhn's. As it currently stands, Stuhn's is either going to reduce the amount of damage your target can mitigate by 20%, or let you do true damage to the target. I suggest the 5 piece be changed to "your attacks will ignore 40% of the armor of enemies who are set off balance". This is a straight up nerf against anyone who has less than 33k armor. But again, this makes it so that the set will be stronger against high armor targets than it is against low armor targets.
The second part of Balorgh should read something like: ...gain 1% of armor penetration for every 10 ultimate spent. Using these numbers, the break even point compared to the pts version of the set would be 23k armor. So at 500 ultimate, a target with 23k armor would have 11,500 points of their armor ignored. This change would make the set even stronger against high armor targets, while ensuring that it requires extra investment to get true damage against low armor targets.
I also think the same balancing principle should be applied to stuhn's. As it currently stands, Stuhn's is either going to reduce the amount of damage your target can mitigate by 20%, or let you do true damage to the target. I suggest the 5 piece be changed to "your attacks will ignore 40% of the armor of enemies who are set off balance". This is a straight up nerf against anyone who has less than 33k armor. But again, this makes it so that the set will be stronger against high armor targets than it is against low armor targets.
Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert
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Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No this game does not need more percent based calculations its already laggy as it is for many folks.
They need to start doing more flat and static stats not add more percent based ones. Server needs simpler calculations.Edited by Thevampirenight on April 23, 2020 5:20AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.5 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think just 33% increased armor pen vs the current valuesWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well, change to Balorgh was to make damage set to boost damage, instead of how it boosting both damage and heals by spd/wpd. Too big % will make it op, too less - will kill set. So better keep ot as it is.5 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »No this game does not need more percent based calculations its already laggy as it is for many folks.
They need to start doing more flat and static stats not add more percent based ones. Server needs simpler calculations.
Then they should get rid of CP. The game's balance shouldn't be hamstrung by performance issues. Flat pen is not the counter to tank builds unless you put in absurd numbers, which ZOS has done. 11k plus worth of flat pen from one source is ridiculous. Don't even remotely understand how that went through. Like there's legit no reason to even put resistances on light or medium armor with that much flat pen easily accessible from one set.
As a general rule of thumb, any singular source of flat pen should be capped at 5280 since ZOS like's standardizing. So if we're really so averse to "complex" calculations, then both stuhns and balorgh should be capped at 5280.Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert5 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭Well, change to Balorgh was to make damage set to boost damage, instead of how it boosting both damage and heals by spd/wpd. Too big % will make it op, too less - will kill set. So better keep ot as it is.
My suggestions still keep that theme. It just makes sure that lower armor builds don't get completely boned, while allowing a counter to higher armor builds.Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem with having it ignore a certain amount of % of targets armor is that it become worse the more in build penetration you have.
Take mauls for example. The % it lets your dmg ignore the armor that's left when all other sources of armor reduction has been taken into consideration. Your suggestion would just make the sets more or less useless.
Stuhn's favour will most likely see a reduction of how much penetration it gives, but I don't see any issues with balorgh in its current state.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not a fan of the increased duration.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭The problem with having it ignore a certain amount of % of targets armor is that it become worse the more in build penetration you have.
Take mauls for example. The % it lets your dmg ignore the armor that's left when all other sources of armor reduction has been taken into consideration. Your suggestion would just make the sets more or less useless.
Stuhn's favour will most likely see a reduction of how much penetration it gives, but I don't see any issues with balorgh in its current state.
I mean, that's intentional on my part. I'm specifically advocating that ZOS make it bad to stack flat pen so it's not so easy to hit the true damage threshold. If these two sets go live, even if someone only uses balorgh at 100 ultimate (which is very cheap), you would need a minimum of 17,142 to not get hit by true damage. If you pvp, you know that 17k resistance is already a low number, and now two sets completely nullify it without any additional sources of pen.Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert0 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭Most light armour builds get hit for true damage anyway so having the extra pen will only hit tankier builds.Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭% pen is not enough - make it (0.1*target resistance)^2. Vs 30k resistances it would give you 9k pen, vs 20k resistances it would give you 4k pen, vs 10k and less it would give 1k pen.
Such approach would make sure that those sets are countering high resistances builds not everyone. Current situation just deletes anyone with less than 20k resistances.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I hope they nerf Stunhs Favor both in how much pen it gives and how you procc it.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Marcus_Thracius✭✭✭✭[snip]
- oh boy those vamps will feel it hard when the orc pack come howling brothers
God Bless - bring in the biceps!Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on April 23, 2020 2:00PM1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That suggestion will kill Balorgh for PvE as the percentage-based penetration is calculated off the remaining resistances of the target. So, no. It already suffers huge nerf for organized groups as it is, where targets are at pen cap.Edited by John_Falstaff on April 23, 2020 12:26PM1 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »That suggestion will kill Balorgh for PvE as the percentage-based penetration is calculated off the remaining resistances of the target. So, no. It already suffers huge nerf for organized groups as it is, where targets are at pen cap.
You just pointed out yourself that pen cap is already achieved in organized pve groups, so this isn't an argument against my proposition. In both scenarios, PTS or my proposition, the pen will be absolutely useless in organized groups. On top of that, the PTS change was clearly geared specifically towards pvp based on the developer comment. So I am obviously going to provide feedback that would be pvp focused.
And, just as a general comment, not every single set needs to be balanced with the idea of 12 man raid groups bringing the most efficient source of a buff available. If we're gonna have discussions about sets from that lens, then half the sets in the game should be removed since they don't offer the most efficient source of a buff that a 12 man raid would want. The most obvious examples being slimecraw, dreugh king slayer, and Rattlecage.Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »That suggestion will kill Balorgh for PvE as the percentage-based penetration is calculated off the remaining resistances of the target. So, no. It already suffers huge nerf for organized groups as it is, where targets are at pen cap.
You just pointed out yourself that pen cap is already achieved in organized pve groups, so this isn't an argument against my proposition. In both scenarios, PTS or my proposition, the pen will be absolutely useless in organized groups. On top of that, the PTS change was clearly geared specifically towards pvp based on the developer comment. So I am obviously going to provide feedback that would be pvp focused.
And, just as a general comment, not every single set needs to be balanced with the idea of 12 man raid groups bringing the most efficient source of a buff available. If we're gonna have discussions about sets from that lens, then half the sets in the game should be removed since they don't offer the most efficient source of a buff that a 12 man raid would want. The most obvious examples being slimecraw, dreugh king slayer, and Rattlecage.
It's worth noting that, first, I'm against PTS changes, and second, in less organized groups without Torug's, templar, without Alkosh for that matter, current PTS version of Balorgh will still be of great use. With percentage based penetration, it will be lost for most PvE groups, organized or not. In fact, right now on PTS Balorgh is a boost to less organized PvE runs since it probably will outdamage live Balorgh when targets are further than 5k from pen cap. Convert it to % based, and it'll kill it off for PvE completely, and I don't think it's a good move.0
