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I just realized that it's *impossible* to get the health regen from the newer Bloody Mara drink —
Langeston
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— unless you're NOT a vampire.
If you're a vampire, the newer Bloody Mara (formerly known as Disasterously) takes you directly to stage 4 at which point your health regen is zero. As far as I know the only way to drop a stage is to wait 4 hours (at which point you've already had to eat/drink more food) or to drink the Purifying Bloody Mara (which has no regen.) Even if you use the Purifying Bloody Mara to get back to stage 1, you can't use Disastrously/Corrupting/whatever because it just brings you back to stage 4 again, completely negating the health regen.
Obviously this is still a good drink for magicka non-vamps, it just seems silly to have health regen on the vampire food that forces you to have zero health regen as a vampire — it just seems like one more poorly thought out change to add to the laundry list.
[edit] Apparently there is one way reduce your vampirism stage while using Corrupting Mara — all you need to do is [surprise] spend money in the Crown Store.
Edited by Langeston on April 22, 2020 11:58PM If you're a vampire, the newer Bloody Mara (formerly known as Disasterously) takes you directly to stage 4 at which point your health regen is zero. As far as I know the only way to drop a stage is to wait 4 hours (at which point you've already had to eat/drink more food) or to drink the Purifying Bloody Mara (which has no regen.) Even if you use the Purifying Bloody Mara to get back to stage 1, you can't use Disastrously/Corrupting/whatever because it just brings you back to stage 4 again, completely negating the health regen.
Obviously this is still a good drink for magicka non-vamps, it just seems silly to have health regen on the vampire food that forces you to have zero health regen as a vampire — it just seems like one more poorly thought out change to add to the laundry list.
[edit] Apparently there is one way reduce your vampirism stage while using Corrupting Mara — all you need to do is [surprise] spend money in the Crown Store.
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BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭I thought that was just passive health regen and not regen from food or drinks ?Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I thought that was just passive health regen and not regen from food or drinks ?
The health regen bonus from drink (and occationally food) is part of the passive health regen. The new version of vampirism applies a -100% modifier to your passive health recovery.
The only way to see that health recovery buff from the Disastrously Bloody Mara on a vampire is to drink it, then immediately use the Fountain of Loss to drop your stage back down.
Without that, the drink will expire long before the stage does.8 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Nope. No matter what sets or food you use, at stage 4 your health recovery is zero.BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I thought that was just passive health regen and not regen from food or drinks ?
In the below image I am using Amber Plasm (which now gives 276 health recovery) and Corrupting Bloody Mara (505 health recovery according to the tooltip.)
Edited by Langeston on April 22, 2020 11:47PM3 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I thought that was just passive health regen and not regen from food or drinks ?
The health regen bonus from drink (and occationally food) is part of the passive health regen. The new version of vampirism applies a -100% modifier to your passive health recovery.
The only way to see that health recovery buff from the Disastrously Bloody Mara on a vampire is to drink it, then immediately use the Fountain of Loss to drop your stage back down.
Without that, the drink will expire long before the stage does.
Fountain of Loss? I have never heard of that. Is it new or am I just very uninformed?0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
Yes. Although TK is already pretty bad on vampires on the live server, and it's getting nerfed next patch so it wouldn't have been good at all anyway.Edited by Langeston on April 22, 2020 11:53PM3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I thought that was just passive health regen and not regen from food or drinks ?
The health regen bonus from drink (and occationally food) is part of the passive health regen. The new version of vampirism applies a -100% modifier to your passive health recovery.
The only way to see that health recovery buff from the Disastrously Bloody Mara on a vampire is to drink it, then immediately use the Fountain of Loss to drop your stage back down.
Without that, the drink will expire long before the stage does.
Fountain of Loss? I have never heard of that. Is it new or am I just very uninformed?
It's new, I might be misremembering the name, but it's a furnishing in the, "Vampire Libations," pack. Basically, it's a fountain that, when used, reduces your current stage by one.
On the PTS, there are currently only 3 ways to drop your stage:- Wait 4 hours (real-time.)
- Drink an old Double Bloody Mara (which would wipe the Disastrous if you were looking for that buff.)
- The Fountain of Loss (again, I may be misremembering the name.)
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
I haven't tested, but if its behavior is consistent, then, yes. Also Major and Minor Fortitude should not affect you, though again, I haven't bothered to test.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
I haven't tested, but if its behavior is consistent, then, yes. Also Major and Minor Fortitude should not affect you, though again, I haven't bothered to test.
Correct on all counts. I just tested everything on the PTS.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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In this case, it's only marginally more convenient than an existing holiday recipe. (Sit through a load screen or down a couple bottles of booze?) Though, I suspect that recipe's value will spike a bit after these changes hit.0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
Yes. Although TK is already pretty bad on vampires on the live server, and it's getting nerfed next patch so it wouldn't have been good at all anyway.
Yeah not that great but with zero health regen I’m sure that health regen looked good to some.Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
I haven't tested, but if its behavior is consistent, then, yes. Also Major and Minor Fortitude should not affect you, though again, I haven't bothered to test.
There will be ways to build around it and I don’t think the major or minor works either since those count as heath recovery.
I expect people to just go with high health and high heals. Vamps have health scaling heals now so I guess that’ll balance everything out.
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
I haven't tested, but if its behavior is consistent, then, yes. Also Major and Minor Fortitude should not affect you, though again, I haven't bothered to test.
There will be ways to build around it and I don’t think the major or minor works either since those count as heath recovery.
I expect people to just go with high health and high heals. Vamps have health scaling heals now so I guess that’ll balance everything out.
I mean, truth is, nobody who knows what they're doing stacks Health Recovery anymore. Back when it wasn't affected by Battle Spirit, it had a narrow focus for PvP, but that was changed... what? Two years ago?
You're always going to get better results from stacking into another stat and then adding self-heals. Fortunately, the Vampire excels at this.0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Oh I see , that’s actually ridiculously then. So I’m assuming the only source of health regen would be from actual heals?
So what about troll king , is it negated ?
I haven't tested, but if its behavior is consistent, then, yes. Also Major and Minor Fortitude should not affect you, though again, I haven't bothered to test.
There will be ways to build around it and I don’t think the major or minor works either since those count as heath recovery.
I expect people to just go with high health and high heals. Vamps have health scaling heals now so I guess that’ll balance everything out.
I mean, truth is, nobody who knows what they're doing stacks Health Recovery anymore. Back when it wasn't affected by Battle Spirit, it had a narrow focus for PvP, but that was changed... what? Two years ago?
You're always going to get better results from stacking into another stat and then adding self-heals. Fortunately, the Vampire excels at this.
I never bothered with it but I can’t say others haven’t. Dks for example naturally have high health recovery. So they have a combination of high health recovery combined with high heals + high mitigation easily making them the most annoying class to fight.
Regarding vamp I think I’m going to try some type of tank and spank build for pvp and see how it goes. Just not sure what class yet but Templar, warden and necro seems like the best choices.
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
I thought it already was Health + Mag + Health Regen + Mag Regen. Granted, by being a mag drink, I basically forgot about it as soon as I ate the recipe.
Nah, its only health, mag, and health regen. It gives pretty high values though so its pretty good, but obviously the health regeneration on it is rather silly. Be nice if they made health regen at stage 4 -75% or -90%. -100% feels like a joke.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
I thought it already was Health + Mag + Health Regen + Mag Regen. Granted, by being a mag drink, I basically forgot about it as soon as I ate the recipe.
Nah, its only health, mag, and health regen. It gives pretty high values though so its pretty good, but obviously the health regeneration on it is rather silly. Be nice if they made health regen at stage 4 -75% or -90%. -100% feels like a joke.
If it was at -90%, that health recovery buff would return a whopping 25 points of health per second. I'm not sure which joke would be worse.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »I never bothered with it but I can’t say others haven’t.
I'm sure some have tried. In fact, I know some have. However, even stacking into it, you'd be hard pressed to get enough health return to meaningfully benefit you. Which is why I specified, "no one who knows what they're doing," because health recovery is a bit of a noob trap. It looks legitimate, but the returns (even on a focused build) are very lackluster.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
If it was at -90%, that health recovery buff would return a whopping 25 points of health per second. I'm not sure which joke would be worse.
Better than 0.... at 0 you fall off a cliff and can't get back up but at 25 you have -something-. I only posted the -90% because it felt like a number ZOS would understand. I prefer the -75% as it is on live. ((Or -50% if you took that one passive))PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »I mean, truth is, nobody who knows what they're doing stacks Health Recovery anymore. Back when it wasn't affected by Battle Spirit, it had a narrow focus for PvP, but that was changed... what? Two years ago?
You're always going to get better results from stacking into another stat and then adding self-heals. Fortunately, the Vampire excels at this.
It's still not affected by Battle Spirit - the main thing that made pure Health Regen stacking a weaker choice than other defensive builds in Cyro was the loss of the HP Regen racial passives, which were 30% if I recall correctly. We used to be able to hit 13k in Divines. After the loss of the racial passives, dropped to about 10k, now with the change to HP Regen sets the concept of stacking entirely into HP Regen is laid to rest.
Of course the release of Battalion Defender and Coward's Gear, and the change to Crest of Cyrodiil, probably would have replaced HP Regen stacking for any purpose in Cyro regardless of the loss of the racial passive.
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyhow in my view, dropping HP Regen to 0 for a Vamp is irrelevant. It was already a terrible thing to spec into as a Vamp. I never understood why any Vamps wore TK.
I agree with this thread. I don't understand the point of HP Regen on this drink. So non-vamps can use it with Bright Throat's and Bone Pirate? Unless you're in those sets there is certainly a better choice than this drink - namely Clockwork, Takeaway, or Sugar Skulls.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Anyhow in my view, dropping HP Regen to 0 for a Vamp is irrelevant. It was already a terrible thing to spec into as a Vamp. I never understood why any Vamps wore TK.
I agree with this thread. I don't understand the point of HP Regen on this drink. So non-vamps can use it with Bright Throat's and Bone Pirate? Unless you're in those sets there is certainly a better choice than this drink - namely Clockwork, Takeaway, or Sugar Skulls.
If you're drinking this while wearing bone pirate, something went very wrong.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »If you're drinking this while wearing bone pirate, something went very wrong.
Yeah, and Bright Throat + Corrupting Bloody Mara would only possibly appeal to the absolute rarest of Khajiits that have a taste for Frosted Brains, which I have always assumed is probably the most infrequently consumed blue food/drink which doesn't have a stronger version. Even this sort of build I personally would probably go for Green Pact + Clockwork, although that is about 5k less mag.
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would also assume most of these sorts of builds would do best in the new Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls/Bear Haunch.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭My issue with it wasn't that I want insane levels of regen from stacking multiple regen sources — I wouldn't find that particularly useful. Having at least some health regen is nice though, for when you're riding a horse & you take some fall damage. With zero regen, you're going to have to dismount to heal from time to time & I would find that pretty annoying. (I'm thinking more along the lines of Cyrodiil here, where not being at full health is far more dangerous than in PVE zones.)3 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am wondering is ZOS even goes over what they create, why would a Vampire not heal when they drink blood? from a lore-stand point this makes no sense at all.5 -
Hollyniss✭✭✭✭I had Double Bloody Mara, now called 'Purified Bloody Mara.' It reversed my stage of vampirism each time I drank it like before.0
