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Update 26 can we expect a real performance increase?
NeoXanthus
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Looking through the notes on next update I do not see anything on performance regarding upgrading physical capacity or bandwidth. I see notes on “several optimizations” dealing with code by client side and server side, while I agree this could help a little what I was expecting to see we (ZoS) have increased our server compute by 300% and we have doubled our bandwidth with our DDoS service provider or something of that nature.
In development there is a point where you are spending more money optimizing old code where if you just added additional compute to this issue it would be fiduciarily more responsible. Remember heart beats are expensive (aka high valued developers) and CPU cycles are inexpensive (compute.)
In development there is a point where you are spending more money optimizing old code where if you just added additional compute to this issue it would be fiduciarily more responsible. Remember heart beats are expensive (aka high valued developers) and CPU cycles are inexpensive (compute.)
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WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Well put, the game runs awesome in day time PVP in the day, as soon as it get around 16:00 to 18:00 all just goes to ***. I do not play at night anymore its crap. So this is not to do with code so much but a lot with compute power not being able to handle the workload.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only2 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭Well put, the game runs awesome in day time PVP in the day, as soon as it get around 16:00 to 18:00 all just goes to ***. I do not play at night anymore its crap. So this is not to do with code so much but a lot with compute power not being able to handle the workload.
I agree with your comment on time of day. If you play early in the morning the performance is AWESOME.2 -
XellJarmar✭✭✭At the first time I read that they'll deal with the proc sets, I thought that they'll delete most of the proc chances and adjust cooldown / functions to compensate the changes. For example, Bloodspawn, which was nerfed hard in this patch, I thought the set would proc every 10 seconds or so with no string regarding the proc chance. Think about it, every time you get hit by incoming attacks, the server has to calculate the proc chance of the set for every incoming attack. If you are hit by Flurry, then the server should handle at least 5 times of random number calculation within 0.6 seconds. In massive PVP situation, the burden for the calculation would be ridiculously heavy for various attacks are simultaneously incoming. [snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on April 22, 2020 6:50PM1 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭No chance bud!PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.7 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭Stop introducing classes sets and skills that heal for x every .7 seconds that's a start. It my observation that lag has continued to get worse the the stronger healing has gotten.
I look at wardens kit alone and think of course there's more lag then when I started playing in 16.
Tweek healing and I bet some of this lag would disappear because people will actually die instead of loading up the servers queuing skills.
Edited by jadarock on April 22, 2020 6:31PM3 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭XellJarmar wrote: »At the first time I read that they'll deal with the proc sets, I thought that they'll delete most of the proc chances and adjust cooldown / functions to compensate the changes. For example, Bloodspawn, which was nerfed hard in this patch, I thought the set would proc every 10 seconds or so with no string regarding the proc chance. Think about it, every time you get hit by incoming attacks, the server has to calculate the proc chance of the set for every incoming attack. If you are hit by Flurry, then the server should handle at least 5 times of random number calculation within 0.6 seconds. In massive PVP situation, the burden for the calculation would be ridiculously heavy for various attacks are simultaneously incoming. [snip]
XellJarmar to start with the game is just code regardless of what it or we as players are doing. And if you see it like that to improve performance you need ether reduce the amount of operations per second or increase your available compute operations per second. The first takes time and cost is measured as an OpEx cost (high valued developers) the latter can be much less expensive comparatively and can be either CapEx and or OpEX depending on how the servers are purchased.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on April 22, 2020 6:51PM2 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭NeillMcAttack wrote: »No chance bud!
Thank you for reading this NeillMcAttack, I really hope ZoS is looking at a real solution for a performance increase.3 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not sure how. Looked like most of the changes performance wise were smaller than changes in the past few patches and performance has actually gotten worse. But here's hoping.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC5 -
sproattt✭✭✭Xbox EU's near unplayable. I don't even login to do my PvP char's mount.Stamblade Main.1 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »XellJarmar wrote: »At the first time I read that they'll deal with the proc sets, I thought that they'll delete most of the proc chances and adjust cooldown / functions to compensate the changes. For example, Bloodspawn, which was nerfed hard in this patch, I thought the set would proc every 10 seconds or so with no string regarding the proc chance. Think about it, every time you get hit by incoming attacks, the server has to calculate the proc chance of the set for every incoming attack. If you are hit by Flurry, then the server should handle at least 5 times of random number calculation within 0.6 seconds. In massive PVP situation, the burden for the calculation would be ridiculously heavy for various attacks are simultaneously incoming. If ZOS ever tried to delete all the proc chances from the sets and adjust the proc cooldown and their functions, I would expect quick and visible performance enhancement, however, with their lazyness, I doubt it highly.
XellJarmar to start with the game is just code regardless of what it or we as players are doing. And if you see it like that to improve performance you need ether reduce the amount of operations per second or increase your available compute operations per second. The first takes time and cost is measured as an OpEx cost (high valued developers) the latter can be much less expensive comparatively and can be either CapEx and or OpEX depending on how the servers are purchased.
The server as a hardware is not that bad I think. The server code... well, I wouldn't count on it to be able to do what it has to do. So rewriting the server code could bring more performance improvement than just throwing in even more hardware.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Looking through the notes on next update I do not see anything on performance regarding upgrading physical capacity or bandwidth. I see notes on “several optimizations” dealing with code by client side and server side, while I agree this could help a little what I was expecting to see we (ZoS) have increased our server compute by 300% and we have doubled our bandwidth with our DDoS service provider or something of that nature.
Don't expect any statements. This sort of thing is not part of their communication plan.
Besides...
1. This is part of their normal business and not something that is tied to an update. They normally do this without telling us. When Firor said "we will all be watching for any issues caused by an already large population playing ESO getting even larger", this is likely part of what he meant. This would include bandwidth and server capacity.
2. The last time they did tell us that they were adding server capacity to handle more concurrent players, it did not solve everyone's problems (as one might expect), so they were called out for "lying" about it. This was despite the fact that they were able to relax login queues. Not all of the server problems are caused by not enough hardware, and I am pretty sure that the problems that people want fixed count among those.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus4 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭Not sure how. Looked like most of the changes performance wise were smaller than changes in the past few patches and performance has actually gotten worse. But here's hoping.
Performance is a lot worse Xaraan. On top of that this is really not a hard fix. It just takes spending money to increase capacity. I can’t image ZoS is hurting for money.
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NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Looking through the notes on next update I do not see anything on performance regarding upgrading physical capacity or bandwidth. I see notes on “several optimizations” dealing with code by client side and server side, while I agree this could help a little what I was expecting to see we (ZoS) have increased our server compute by 300% and we have doubled our bandwidth with our DDoS service provider or something of that nature.
Don't expect any statements. This sort of thing is not part of their communication plan.
Besides...
1. This is part of their normal business and not something that is tied to an update. They normally do this without telling us. When Firor said "we will all be watching for any issues caused by an already large population playing ESO getting even larger", this is likely part of what he meant. This would include bandwidth and server capacity.
2. The last time they did tell us that they were adding server capacity to handle more concurrent players, it did not solve everyone's problems (as one might expect), so they were called out for "lying" about it. This was despite the fact that they were able to relax login queues. Not all of the server problems are caused by not enough hardware, and I am pretty sure that the problems that people want fixed count among those.
I agree not all the server problems are caused by not enough hardware. Some are cause by poorly designed code and even more I would say are caused by network issues. When I personally see really bad performance with ZoS most of the time the latency is entering Akamai’s DDoS scrubbers. In my experience outside of playing this game it is usually not an issue with Akamai service but an issue with the subscriber under-subscribing their usage plan and oversubscribing real world data.7 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Not sure how. Looked like most of the changes performance wise were smaller than changes in the past few patches and performance has actually gotten worse. But here's hoping.
Performance is a lot worse Xaraan. On top of that this is really not a hard fix. It just takes spending money to increase capacity. I can’t image ZoS is hurting for money.
you are absolutely right about that.
increase capacity is the answer to the extreme high constant ping and lagg.
i press the action button for a skill and it simply does not fire off, and all the timing is off.
ofcourse i am specifically speaking about pvp, i don't spend much time enough in pve to give accurate information, but in pvp it is unresponsive to my key presses - no response.
Edited by Gilvoth on April 22, 2020 7:04PM0 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Not sure how. Looked like most of the changes performance wise were smaller than changes in the past few patches and performance has actually gotten worse. But here's hoping.
Performance is a lot worse Xaraan. On top of that this is really not a hard fix. It just takes spending money to increase capacity. I can’t image ZoS is hurting for money.
you are absolutely right about that.
increase capacity is the answer to the extreme high constant ping and lagg.
i press the action button for a skill and it simply does not fire off, and all the timing is off.
ofcourse i am specifically speaking about pvp, i don't spend much time enough in pve to give accurate information, but in pvp it is unresponsive to my key presses - no response.
I truly hope they do something. I don’t expect ZoS to give us a detailed project management plan on their upgrades. But just some broad stokes on we did add X, Y, or Z capacity improvements and this should help in your daily performance issues trying to enjoy our game.2 -
KappaKid83✭✭✭✭✭I think at this point, and I have been saying this for a few months, we should be expecting the worst and be surprised(I guess pleasantly?) if the performance does have a sustained improvement after the patch hits. It sucks we are at this point but the track record of "fixes" and "improvements" has been anything but those things, so here is to hoping for the best.2
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Gracous✭✭✭✭Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!1
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!
well then what can we do?
is almost unplayable right now most of the time.2 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!
Except the current issues predates the covid19 lockdown so we can skip that as an explanation.20 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redgreensunset wrote: »Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!
Except the current issues predates the covid19 lockdown so we can skip that as an explanation.
that is a horrible reality.5 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭KappaKid83 wrote: »I think at this point, and I have been saying this for a few months, we should be expecting the worst and be surprised(I guess pleasantly?) if the performance does have a sustained improvement after the patch hits. It sucks we are at this point but the track record of "fixes" and "improvements" has been anything but those things, so here is to hoping for the best.
I believe you are right; however, I would hope that ZoS does more, they did promise use a performance upgrade.3 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!
I would like to take that response, but it is simply not accurate for the size of ZoS and player base. Also these issues are not new to Covid-19. Within reason you should be able to design any modern public face datacenter or cloud service with elastic style appliances and services to adjust based off scale and load.4 -
Gracous✭✭✭✭I play on console (ps4). When they released the performance update it did get better for me. But shortly there after it went downhill quickly. I don't know if it was the Harrowstorm update that did it or if it was something esle. But i do know that there were a lot of varying results after the two updates.
Neo you are right. They should have anticipated user numbers to ebb and flow and built their hardware and software to deal with that. Sadly this does not seem to be the case.0 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭I play on console (ps4). When they released the performance update it did get better for me. But shortly there after it went downhill quickly. I don't know if it was the Harrowstorm update that did it or if it was something esle. But i do know that there were a lot of varying results after the two updates.
Neo you are right. They should have anticipated user numbers to ebb and flow and built their hardware and software to deal with that. Sadly this does not seem to be the case.
Gracous, I play on PC/NA myself and have been playing sense beta. I have only seen small issues with performance until after the Summerset release. From my perspective on PC/NA up until Morrowind from a PC/NA performance perspective the game was rock solid with only minor exceptions for large groups in PvP.1 -
KappaKid83✭✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »KappaKid83 wrote: »I think at this point, and I have been saying this for a few months, we should be expecting the worst and be surprised(I guess pleasantly?) if the performance does have a sustained improvement after the patch hits. It sucks we are at this point but the track record of "fixes" and "improvements" has been anything but those things, so here is to hoping for the best.
I believe you are right; however, I would hope that ZoS does more, they did promise use a performance upgrade.
They did promise it to us, they have tried to deliver on it(pre-pandemic as well) and have fallen short on all accounts. I also do hope they do more and get everything working correctly. Unfortunately I think the hard truth is that the coding groundwork has been pretty much overwritten and interwoven with bad code and other code that all effects each other even though it shouldn't. And at this point the code is probably at a point where it would need to be completely re-written, which we all know is completely unfeasible, but unfortunately a hard truth we have to come to grips with.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!
There is definitely a base internet capacity issue right now, and that is going to impact game performance for some people. Potentially anyone from certain geographic areas, or using specific ISPs (directly or indirectly). Often, there is nothing ZOS can do about that, but given their rep for poor performance, they get blamed whether it is their fault or not.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭KappaKid83 wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »KappaKid83 wrote: »I think at this point, and I have been saying this for a few months, we should be expecting the worst and be surprised(I guess pleasantly?) if the performance does have a sustained improvement after the patch hits. It sucks we are at this point but the track record of "fixes" and "improvements" has been anything but those things, so here is to hoping for the best.
I believe you are right; however, I would hope that ZoS does more, they did promise use a performance upgrade.
They did promise it to us, they have tried to deliver on it(pre-pandemic as well) and have fallen short on all accounts. I also do hope they do more and get everything working correctly. Unfortunately I think the hard truth is that the coding groundwork has been pretty much overwritten and interwoven with bad code and other code that all effects each other even though it shouldn't. And at this point the code is probably at a point where it would need to be completely re-written, which we all know is completely unfeasible, but unfortunately a hard truth we have to come to grips with.
KappaKid, I agree with you on the promises of ZoS and falling short. On the fix though redesigning code is expensive, time consuming, and in most cases has a lower return on investment compared to throwing hardware and improved transport at it.
For example if we design code from assembler or machine language we could have totally awesome performing code that takes very little CPU cycles to operate the downside is to make something like that viable it take an army of developers, project managers, program managers, quality assurance people, and the list goes on and on. However, you throw networking and compute at the problem it still take people implement the change but on an order of magnitude much less. And the code is still not optimized but the more advance hardware and transport does that not optimized task so much faster. Short of really bad code like “coding loops” this increasing hardware @ transport methodology will most likely win both on cost, time to market, and positive customer experience.
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NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭Its not all Zos's fault. More people are staying home right now because they have too thus playing more. Yes the performance at peak times still sucks but then, if you can, play in off peak times. I have heard that streaming services are throttling their bandwidth right now to help deal with the demand for the service. I can only imagine ESO is doing the same because most of their staff is working from home. Hopefully when people return to work the performance will get better. One can only hope!
There is definitely a base internet capacity issue right now, and that is going to impact game performance for some people. Potentially anyone from certain geographic areas, or using specific ISPs (directly or indirectly). Often, there is nothing ZOS can do about that, but given their rep for poor performance, they get blamed whether it is their fault or not.
These performance issues happened long before Covid-19. To be honest I have not seen the exacerbated by the event.5
