Let's talk about role-playing vs efficiency playing

Elsonso · April 2020

Lysette wrote: »

ESO is like a large buffet with plenty of foodstuffs to choose from, but you are just allowed to pick a few of those. And that is very different to other MMOs, you have quite a few skill lines, but just a few slots to actually make use of them. ESO is kind of pseudo-choice - looks like a lot, but doesn't let you use all what you've learnt - and a lot isn't even logical, just to mention poison on staves as an example. The game is nevertheless fun, if you don't take it too serious and can live with illogical stuff.

Like your buffet, I might not like the lutefisk and haggus, so I don't take them. I could take them, but I don't want to. Maybe I am surrounded by a bunch of people that like that stuff, and the restaurant cannot keep the buffet table stocked.

At times, I feel like I am surrounded by ESO players that want to eat lutefisk, so ZOS provides. Maybe I don't want to eat gelatinous lye-soaked cod, thank you. I will stick with the breaded fish sticks, which ZOS also provides, and suffer through the glares from the lutefisk lovers as they turn their nose up at it.

Of course, if I don't bring lutefisk to the dungeon, I get asked to leave, but one has to expect that. Lutefisk lovers are nothing, if not fanatics about lutefisk. You pretty much have to be, come to think about it.

Personal choice. That is what ESO is offering. If you want to be limited in what you do, that is fine. ESO offers that, too. It is just sad when people judge.

Gaebriel0410 · April 2020

I often see bad players referred to as 'roleplay builds' which is all kinds of ridiculous. Roleplayers not being able to play the game is a myth.

In my experience it's perfectly possible to make themed character builds that are fitting to the character, but still can hold their own in group content.

I'd never copy a meta build/optimal race setup, since a) I don't need to do 100k dps in the group content I'm interested in (which does include vet DLC, just not speedrun time trial omgbbq gogogo stuff) and b) that would devalue one of the most fun aspects of ESO for me, the ability to entirely costumize your character.

My main character is a tank, but if I switch out my skills / gear to dps when needed, I can manage 30-35k on my 2h/2h offspec setup just fine. And I'd say that's pretty decent for a 'roleplay build' played by someone who usually tanks (also with a roleplay build, ha!).

TLDR: roleplayer =/= bad player.

robertthebard · April 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

But let me ask a final question: Can you explain the rationale behind claiming one is playing for their own enjoyment, while complaining that doing so wrecks your own enjoyment?

It is about reasonable expectations.

If FG1 is one of the daily pledges for the day and you use the group finder tool to pug FG1 you have an absolute expectation that the people you end up grouped with are there to actually complete FG1.

If however you random queue into FG1 and start explaining to your pug group that you are a mycologist who is there to peacefully study the fungi and could you all please not antagonize the goblins so you may go about your studies your expectation should be that you are going to get a wedgie, followed by a swirly, followed by being kicked from the group.

So, how many times has this actually happened to you? I know it's never happened to me, and I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of others that would say the same thing, "Never seen it". IF I were inclined to play something like that, I'd *shock* find a group of likeminded RPers to go with me.

bellatrixed · April 2020

Roleplaying has literally nothing to do with using an ineffective build and I don't understand why that word is being used to refer to "bad builds" lately.

Roleplaying means you play the game as your character. In the MMO context that pretty much ALWAYS refers to typing descriptive action emotes with other roleplayers and speaking as your character, not using a bad build.

It's also roleplaying to take certain story/quest options into account or to not take a skill line your character wouldn't realistically have, but again, roleplay guilds refer to creative writing.

In fact, most roleplayers consider game mechanics to be entirely OOC (out of character) i.e. they have nothing to do with RP. RP and PVE/PVP are entirely different activities. I might roleplay in statless cosmetic gear and then go put on my actual gear to run a hardmode DLC dungeon.

Please stop calling this roleplaying. As the GM of a roleplay guild this is just a really weird phenemon where RPers are being mislabeled and slandered as something they never claim to be. It would be sort of like me referring to insulting other players or outbidding them at auctions PVP. Words have meanings. Please use the right ones lol.

Gaebriel0410 · April 2020

Yeah that example sounds like a bit of a hyperbole to me. Being a roleplayer myself, I'd never do a random dungeon to RP since that's just.. weird and ineffective? Doing a dungeon 'in character' is totally something that people do, but they do it with 4 friends and a storyline, not in randoms.

bellatrixed · April 2020

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

Yeah that example sounds like a bit of a hyperbole to me. Being a roleplayer myself, I'd never do a random dungeon to RP since that's just.. weird and ineffective? Doing a dungeon 'in character' is totally something that people do, but they do it with 4 friends and a storyline, not in randoms.

Right? Like I've been roleplaying online since the 90s, playing MMOs since 2007, and I have literally never seen "roleplaying" referred to as "people who are bad at the game" until the last couple months in ESO. Where is this even coming from???

RPers don't go off and force non-RPers to RP and they are perfectly capable of playing the game competitively while not RPing. Sort of like how you can PVP seriously and also have a master crafter or run vet trials while also enjoying housing.

Tandor · April 2020

I've always taken the view that if you want to play competitive content then you have to learn how best to compete. If not, then the whole issue of meta builds, skills and gear etc simply doesn't arise - and if you only or predominantly solo then roles don't arise either. Also, if you want to play with others but in your own way then it's encumbent on you to find like-minded players/guilds with which to do so.

Mindcr0w · April 2020

So, how many times has this actually happened to you? I know it's never happened to me, and I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of others that would say the same thing, "Never seen it".

Yes, it was an intentionally hyperbolic and somewhat ludicrous example meant to address a question with an obvious answer.

Can you explain the rationale behind claiming one is playing for their own enjoyment, while complaining that doing so wrecks your own enjoyment?

When does someone's play choice detract from someone else's? When they aren't making a good faith effort to be reasonably competent at an in game activity they've shown up for.

And this is something we've all encountered.

VaranisArano · April 2020

VocalThought wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

You've got Bow/1H and Shield going there, with skills set up for a Stam Warden. That looks like an interesting build for solo play.

When it comes to roles in group content.

If you added Puncture to the 1H&S bar, you'd have the taunt you need in order to play a tank. Stam Wardens can make excellent tanks because they've got the resistances and off-healing to be great at group support and very resilient.

Without Puncture or another taunt, you'll probably be looking at damage dealer. Your skills aren't very efficient for damage, so I'd recommend practicing at a training dummy to see how much DPS you do.

If you wanted to do a healer, Warden is one of the few who can actually make Stam Healer work. You'll want to pick up Vigor from PVP and some more skills from your Green Balance skill line to make it work.

Artanisul wrote: »

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

That is....interesting?

That is a whole bunch of healing. Has it been necessary to have that many heals? You seem to have few attacks in your skill set. Is it just the animations you wanted to be able to do?

In short, that set up seems to be exactly what the min maxers point to when they say " building however you want will make the group carry you." You arent a damage dealer. You can self heal.....alot. You can't tank with no taunt. The closest to a role that build would be is "explorer."

So, it seems that based on the skills I have, I'm best suited to have a Tank, but I would need to add Puncture to my Back Bar, either replacing Deep Slash or Arctic Winds, then I'll be viable in group content, and more likely make my back bar my front bar, since I'm tanking.

I'd agree that Tank is probably the easiest role with the least changes to your current skills. The main thing to focus on as a tank is holding aggro on the boss, following mechanics, and not dying. If you can do that, most groups will be happy. To do a great job as tank, you'll want to see where you can crowd control enemies, debuff the boss, and buff the group. With your healing skills, you'll bring some good off-healing to your groups, which can be nice in 3 DD runs.

xaraan · April 2020

Here's how I view it:

I don't think everyone has to be in the most 'meta' build to do most of the content, even DLC vet dungeons in hardmode. Just decent gear. So anyone exaggerating and saying, if you aren't in rele/lokke then you are building your character horribly needs to sit down. I don't even wear that gear for dungeons on my guys that are built meta.

BUT, here is my view with RPers. For me to wrap my head around RP, consists of me imagining myself in that role literally and making decisions in that world, etc. If I were my player, I would not purposefully choose to use gear that was less than useful vs another option for any reason other than not being able to get my hands on it. No one that was going into a life and death situations would not take the best gear they could get their hands on. I don't care if you are a sneak-thief, if you knew you were going into open battle, you might throw some real armor on, etc. If you are RPing as someone that makes decisions that badly and not very intelligent, then more power to you. But don't be shocked if people treat you the way you are RPing. Because the same applies to me when I view my team mates, I'd want to go into a life or death situation with people that are as prepared as they could be. If one of my team mates was someone likely to get me or others killed or fail our goal b/c they didn't want to bother gearing up or listening to anyone's advice, then why would I want to run that mission with that team mate?

My problem with RP has never been the RP part. It's been that they seem like they want to create their own little world around them that is different than the world that exists. I actually like the idea of RPing in an RPG, but I'd RP like a character in Tamriel that was actually doing the things he's doing. I wouldn't be acting like it's a different story, or a different world or a dungeon run was all about me and doing some random concept that didn't involve all the combat that actually exists. Not to say that means no one can do that, more power to you, but I think at that point you should do it on your own time since you are making it all about your own personal game.

Outside of that, I don't have a problem. If your gear isn't the most meta but the best you can get, and it's getting the job done, then we are good. We had a guild mate that was playing as pretty much a mage guild wizard and wearing the old mage guild costume and wanting to do the quest slowly for story and we had no problem waiting for him, during fights he wasn't burning the world down but he also wasn't a hindrance to the group, he held his own so to speak. But if you are going to go through and think, I have this RP excuse for wearing the worst gear in the game and not caring if I die and you shouldn't care that I won't be any help in this mission you are doing but take me anyway, even if it makes your job harder - think about that. How would that go over in the real world? If you are going to do that, you'll want a group that's committed to it before hand and is in on the RP experience IMO.

robertthebard · April 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

So, how many times has this actually happened to you? I know it's never happened to me, and I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of others that would say the same thing, "Never seen it".

Yes, it was an intentionally hyperbolic and somewhat ludicrous example meant to address a question with an obvious answer.

Can you explain the rationale behind claiming one is playing for their own enjoyment, while complaining that doing so wrecks your own enjoyment?

When does someone's play choice detract from someone else's? When they aren't making a good faith effort to be reasonably competent at an in game activity they've shown up for.

And this is something we've all encountered.

Perhaps it's simply that they don't know there's a "better way"? Perhaps the build they're running has been effective for what they've been doing, and had no idea that they needed a forum certified build to hit a random dungeon queue? Here's a position that may be somewhat shocking, but perhaps they're just bad at the game, and they are making a good faith effort, but just not doing the "right" things?

I was somewhat surprised, upon looking at some guides for my own characters, to find that I was already doing what they recommended, mostly, all w/out having looked at them prior to being curious, and having no real intention to play the content where it's going to be important. Now, I am a former progression raider, so I do read what sets do, I pay attention to what weapons and weapon enchants do, and I do try to keep my gear as current as possible. I spent literally at least a decade learning this behavior. With all of that, I've seen plenty of players in all the right gear that have no idea what they're doing. I've seen it in Korean grinders, one in particular called Rappelz. I've seen it in Aion, I've seen it in GW and GW 2, I've seen it in DDO, and I've seen it in swtor, off the top of my head. I've seen players that aren't good at the game, and know they aren't, and so they don't do PuGs and only group with their guilds. It's still amazing to me that all of these best of the best players have tools at their disposal to avoid such players, and yet, they don't, choosing to come to the forums and complain, instead.

Mindcr0w · April 2020

Here's a position that may be somewhat shocking, but perhaps they're just bad at the game, and they are making a good faith effort, but just not doing the "right" things?

Yes, perhaps they are?

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. I expressed an issue with people who aren't making a good faith effort and you respond by jumping to the defense of people that are?

Starlock · April 2020

bellatrixed wrote: »

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

Yeah that example sounds like a bit of a hyperbole to me. Being a roleplayer myself, I'd never do a random dungeon to RP since that's just.. weird and ineffective? Doing a dungeon 'in character' is totally something that people do, but they do it with 4 friends and a storyline, not in randoms.

Right? Like I've been roleplaying online since the 90s, playing MMOs since 2007, and I have literally never seen "roleplaying" referred to as "people who are bad at the game" until the last couple months in ESO. Where is this even coming from???

RPers don't go off and force non-RPers to RP and they are perfectly capable of playing the game competitively while not RPing. Sort of like how you can PVP seriously and also have a master crafter or run vet trials while also enjoying housing.

In my experience, there's always been a bit of a clash between what are sometimes called "power gamers" and those who have other motivations for delving into the RPG landscape, whether we're talking tabletop RPGs or otherwise. The power gamer is interested in "gaming the system" so to speak, and they focusing not on creating characters but on "builds" that optimize numerically in some aspect. Many power gamers are pretty innocuous in their pursuit of numerical perfection, but some expect everybody else to want to power game too. This is probably the demographic that started using "role player" pejoratively. They don't understand wanting to focus on creating characters instead of builds and may be harsh critics in group activities where others aren't adhering to their particular set of expectations. But honestly, such sticks-in-the-muck are few and far between in my experience. Then again, I also steer widely clear of competitive gaming, especially in RPGs.

Darkenarlol · April 2020

i like theoricrafting and experimenting with unpopular skills and niche builds

some of my characters uses some skills/sets just because they fit their RP story

but the thing is i'll never bring an RP character that underperforms (in my standards)

into any serious vet group activity because i don't see literally a single reason why

i should make my teammates suffer from my RP

ImmortalCX · April 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Nothing wrong with roleplay, but do it on your own time. Either by yourself or with people who also specifically want to roleplay.

Otherwise for group content spec for an appropriate level of efficiency.

You're basically saying if you want to play group content, you need to study builds online.

That's a problem.. it would take forever to find best setups on your own. It's not really a puzzle, it's copy paste and that's not fun for many ppl

FrancisCrawford · April 2020

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

If you want to play that build in a group, you should probably make some improvements. E.g.:

Having the bear on one bar only doesn't really work.
Invasion is a bad fit for build without much that's useful in melee-range damage.
Frozen Retreat seems pretty pointless for a damage dealer. A lot of the other skills seem pretty dubious for a tank.

x48rph · April 2020

As others have pointed out it depends on what your doing. If your trying for vet trials or vet dlc dungeons then no, that's top tier endgame stuff and you should be bringing an appropriate build cause it's just not going to go well for anyone if you don't. But you should expect that in any game when doing top tier endgame stuff. Other than that, I could care less what you bring and so could plenty of other people. I will push through with no complaints even when I'm doing 50%+ of the damage on my healer. I might inquire as to whether you need build advice but other than that it doesn't matter as all of them are pretty easy. Now of course you will run into some who will get very mad and nasty if your not running what they consider the appropriate build, but I mean, that can happen anywhere, just ignore and move on.

Nerouyn · April 2020

VocalThought wrote: »

With as many skills in this game, do you feel like it's good enough that you could use any array of skills it be enjoyable or is there very few combinations of skills with some skills simply not seeing the light of day?

ESO is a game which has always tried to have it both ways, every which way imaginable, and this is no different.

PvE content - solo or group - isn't so difficult as to require absolutely optimal stats from any source. Near enough really is good enough. Your being a non-optimal race might slow completion a little bit but shouldn't prevent it.

But there's also timed competitive PvE content and PvP and that's a different matter. Every little bit helps and your being a non-optimal race really could mean the difference between victory or defeat.

Mindcr0w · April 2020

You're basically saying if you want to play group content, you need to study builds online.

That is absolutely not what I am saying. I am saying have a level of efficiency appropriate for the content being run. What that level is will vary wildly based on the content. I am by no means suggesting, for instance, that anyone needs to be running bis bleeding edge meta builds to run FG1.

There is, however, definitely content where you absolutely should take steps to get yourself up to snuff before trying it. There's no point in trying to run content that requires everyone running on four cylinders if you're running on one cylinder.

idk · April 2020

I fail to see what the problem is. In any game, I have seen players use the GF that had no clue what they were doing. The quality of play I see in these GF groups often pales from what I see on my raid teams. So ESO is no different.

If you have a problem with the quality or types of players you find in random GF groups then start forming your own groups and find people to play with. If you are a decent player you should be able to find your way into a guild with decent players. Problem solved in a very effective manner.

FrancisCrawford · April 2020

In many normal dungeons, it's appropriate to go in if you have an under-50 character with no CP.

So that's the bar. If your build is so bizarre that you can't match that level of effectiveness, you should stay out of the GroupFinder.

Glurin · April 2020

Nerouyn wrote: »

But there's also timed competitive PvE content and PvP and that's a different matter. Every little bit helps and your being a non-optimal race really could mean the difference between victory or defeat.

The trouble is that the community's definition of competitive content tends to bleed over onto a whole lot of content that isn't competitive. Vet dungeons, for example. Unless you're specifically going for the speed achievement, that is not a competitive environment. Even then, the only thing you're competing against is the clock.

The same applies to trials, now that I think about it. Trying to get top scores on leaderboards is the only thing that makes them competitive, which should be the exclusive realm of competitive trial guilds. So jumping all over people in random PUGs because they picked the "wrong" race is just pure asshattery. If you wanna compete, don't join random PUGs.

newtinmpls · April 2020

Glurin wrote: »

As for "you suck at holding aggro", nine times out of ten it's because the person complaining is using an ice staff with tri-focus or something equally stupid. Aggro in this game is not that complicated. Especially in four-man dungeons.

I game regularly with a group of four. We have all taken turns at being all of the roles, and every single one of us has had multiple moments when, as tank, we were doing "all the right things" and wham - the boss went rogue.

Stuff happens.

Opalblade wrote: »

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't consider any complaints, so I hope that's not how I came off. I'm talking about how some people in MMOs seem to get so focused on the meta that they'll complain if you use anything else. When it's a legitimate complaint like "you aren't doing enough damage/healing" or "you suck at holding aggro", I'll usually listen.

I agree that sometimes people complain to give feedback, and sometimes they complain because...they are complainers.

I also think you have a good point that some are super focused on "the meta" to the point where they can't/won't consider anything else.

Just because I don't do it "your way" doesn't mean my way doesn't work.

My Stamsorc tank with Ebon, Thunderbug and Storm knight began as an overland experiment, but I'm successfully tanking vet undaunted's with her, and I didn't expect to be able to pull it off - but it works.

Tandor · April 2020

@Mindcr0w If you're going to selectively quote individual sentences from the middle of other posters' comments, can you please include the poster's name in the quote otherwise it is impossible to find the context of the point being replied to without having to trawl through the entirety of everyone's comments looking for the one sentence you've plucked out. This will enable those other than the person you're exchanging points with to follow the discussion, which is an interesting one.

Thanks.

kaisernick · April 2020

bellatrixed wrote: »

Roleplaying has literally nothing to do with using an ineffective build and I don't understand why that word is being used to refer to "bad builds" lately.

I think when people refer to RP for builds they actually mean personal character rp.
Say you decide to mage a ice mage so you pick warden and use only the ice abilties so it fits with your character desire to play them.

There are certain characters ive practally abandoned because they are no longer viable without changing the way they play, my duel wield nb is a prime example, i made her to use duel weapons only and for a time she was decent to do fine in vet dungons but thanks to nerfs and changes the only way to make her decent is to have a bow on the back bar and i really didnt want that as i have a ranged character already so i only use her now for overland and rp.

So i think using rp wasnt the right phrase to use but i think th op was getting at a more personal choice for characters feel.

RavenSworn · April 2020

Feel like I need to chime in on this topic.

Role players aren't all bad, just like not all players are all good. And playing efficiently doesnt necessarily equate to fun. It's fun for some, not for others.

My take on this is simple, in a group, if a player complains about another and is not doing anything for the group dynamics, morale and ***, he's out, even if he is pulling 90% of the dps.

Same thing if I have a player that doesnt want to listen to instructions, doesnt want to play ball with the rest of the group, out you go.

Anecdotally, I've had players that talk *** about other players in the group, saying that they follow the most recent meta build, dishing out 90k-100k dps but stood in red, wont block, wont dodge, wont stand behind the boss, wont follow mechanics.

I've also had a player with a weird ass build, staff wielding, two hander, cleave monster that critical rush everywhere. He refused to stand behind the boss, saying he take hits like a warrior.

I've had a 2 months player who kept working on killing a group of mobs but who managed to keep away from the red, stayed right with the mechanics. All in that spider queen dungeon with less than 8k dps from her. Said that it's their first foray into dungeons and this wasn't her choice, it's a pug. We all did it within 30mins.

I had a group with an unassuming player, simple staff staff DK, and boy we breezed through pledges like knife through butter. We chat ***, played around, dying for fun, laughing our heads off. Ended up in the guild saying that was the best run he had, not even with his trial buddies who seem more concerned about gear and build rather than situational rotation and mechanics.

At the end of the day, if you can't carry the group when you keep claiming 90k, or wont follow mechanics, dont pug.

Glurin · April 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

As for "you suck at holding aggro", nine times out of ten it's because the person complaining is using an ice staff with tri-focus or something equally stupid. Aggro in this game is not that complicated. Especially in four-man dungeons.

I game regularly with a group of four. We have all taken turns at being all of the roles, and every single one of us has had multiple moments when, as tank, we were doing "all the right things" and wham - the boss went rogue.

Stuff happens.

Generally speaking, not when it comes to taunts. Because of the way taunt works in ESO, you can pretty safely spam taunt as much as you want and you're almost guaranteed not to lose aggro unless it's a mechanic in that dungeon for the boss to do so. It's a bad habit, but still safe in that environment.

In fact, sometimes it's necessary, such as in the aforementioned ice staff example. That is, if you don't want to put up with the drama of just letting the fool have the boss.

PackJamers · April 2020

If it's the top tier of content, yeah, meta and min/max has it's place and is a neccessity. I can't imagine people have had to wait to start their vCR+3 prog to allow somebody to have an epic roleplay moment with Z'Maja before the fight ensues. Running normal pugs/dungeon finder, anything goes for me and I will enjoy watching people that are genuinely just living their best life.

At the end of the day that's all that roleplayers are doing. Living a fantasy. Hard-cast frags on repeat and we will do everything we can to protect you! We will give you orbs, shards and every synergy going so that you can sustain this feat! Want to loot and tea-bag bosses and want to read the lore in dungeons? We will join in with you and wait. Why not? I love the lore too.

People that want to delve into a deep roleplay will already have people that they roleplay with, so they aren't going to commit to this in a random dungeon with people they don't know.

I prog for countless hours every week. Kicking back and just watching people enjoy themselves and playing how they want to is needed for me. To remember it's a game and you can just have fun. It's okay to have fun, otherwise you're going to burn out.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to pull them into your progression teams. They are the kinda people that you would hang out with in a social guild and just have a laugh with. With, not at their expense.

VaranisArano · April 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

As for "you suck at holding aggro", nine times out of ten it's because the person complaining is using an ice staff with tri-focus or something equally stupid. Aggro in this game is not that complicated. Especially in four-man dungeons.

I game regularly with a group of four. We have all taken turns at being all of the roles, and every single one of us has had multiple moments when, as tank, we were doing "all the right things" and wham - the boss went rogue.

Stuff happens.
.

Stam Sorc Tanks are fun!

Though as long as the tank was taunting properly, the boss "going rogue" is usually a boss mechanic. Some bosses are frustratingly untauntable, and most have mechanics where they focus on players other than the tank in order to keep fights interesting.

VocalThought · April 2020

So say you have a group of 4 or more players, is there no room for anyone to the fourth player or more to not fulfill a role or be a hybrid? I can understand having a 3 person team where each individual focuses on one task, but one would think if you have more people you could mix thing up a bit. No?