Let's talk about role-playing vs efficiency playing

VocalThought · April 2020

I notice as I read the forums and play the game, there's a lot of feedback and comments about making an optimal build. I particularly don't create characters to do the best tank, healer, or damage dealer, but to have a particular set of skills and see how I can make them work as best as I can. Now this might not be the best loadout to complete dungeons or fight pvp, but think the fun is being learning how to make it through these challenges with groups where everyone can do something different.

There are others out there that swear you must be playing game wrong, aren't playing your role, or are just in the way, while at the same time they may role with a group that has s cookie cut skill bar and abilities.

With as many skills in this game, do you feel like it's good enough that you could use any array of skills it be enjoyable or is there very few combinations of skills with some skills simply not seeing the light of day?

GeorgeBlack · April 2020

Ill tell you what.
For me this is the last time I play a game that says "many skill lines to choose from and build your unique style".

You want to play as you like? Go play a game with real classes. You like tanks? Make a tank.
You like summoners. Play a summoner.
You like dual wield? Get the dual wield class.

Other than that, in games like eso and AA you have to follow the meta to be competitive, using a fighting style you dont like.
Backbar SnB for PvP.
Backbar Bow for pve. Hf

I dont think RP has anything to do with effeciency.
Some people RP as a warrior in an mmorpg world, exploring and facing challenges outside the city gates, fighting for their guilds goals and domination and taking down legendary world bosses.

Others RP using all sorts of emotes, rules and parameters and other weird stuff, making mmorpgs about making furniture and cooking and decorating a house that does not exist in anyone elses gameplay other than their own/friends, spending dollars to make a Dragonguard themed character that can only kill ESO ez overland content-rather than what mmorpgs are supposed to be.
An online adventure without loading screens. Step out and face a challenging world of landscales or ruins and fortresses, where other players are friends or foes rather than people you wish they werent present for your single player RPG delve run, before you go back to do daily furniture writs with your 20 alts....

Thokri · April 2020

It is fine to do rp-builds on overland, otherwise it is way too easy and gets boring.

On group play it is completely different story unless it is specifically made group for rp.
Forcing others to have inconvinience because of your preferences is in general just a *** move.

In my opinion everyone should do effort to not be burden on group, I actually like if it is bit competive where everyone tries to be better than other.

Pausing on lore-parts and waiting/watching rp-skits is fine for first time but group content is not meant to be single-time events where problems rise. Unless you have brain of goldfish it becomes very dull and boring to just wait without any stimulus and for most they don't want more of dull moments since games are their escape from boring reality.

In short doing not optimizes builds and inefficient style of playing in group content is just extremely rude and selfish since at that point you are only caring about your own enjoyment. Which is not something that should be acceptable behavior even if current media and society has promoted such style of life.

oXI_Viper_IXo · April 2020

It all boils down to what content you're trying to do. For overland PVE, public dungeons, and non-DLC normal dungeons, you can make just about anything work.

For doing PvP, DLC dungeons, vet dungeons, and vet trials, you're going to need a much more optimized build in order to be successful.

Personally, I feel like there is a good balance of having plenty of content that's easy enough to clear "playing the way you want" as well as more challenging content that requires more specialization.

Opalblade · April 2020

I like a little of both. One of my favorite things to do in MMOs is to try and come up with builds that can do their jobs as effectively as possible while still sticking with a character's theme. Of course there will always be those people that complain if you don't completely copy-paste the meta, even if your build works just as well, but whatever. Some people are just too picky.

Lysette · April 2020

ESO is like a large buffet with plenty of foodstuffs to choose from, but you are just allowed to pick a few of those. And that is very different to other MMOs, you have quite a few skill lines, but just a few slots to actually make use of them. ESO is kind of pseudo-choice - looks like a lot, but doesn't let you use all what you've learnt - and a lot isn't even logical, just to mention poison on staves as an example. The game is nevertheless fun, if you don't take it too serious and can live with illogical stuff.

Mindcr0w · April 2020

Nothing wrong with roleplay, but do it on your own time. Either by yourself or with people who also specifically want to roleplay.

Otherwise for group content spec for an appropriate level of efficiency.

StormeReigns · April 2020

Friends, Family and the option to team up with members from 5 different Guilds to maximize your entertainment group content value instead of trying to Millhouse everyone into your way of game play.

newtinmpls · April 2020

Opalblade wrote: »

Of course there will always be those people that complain if you don't completely copy-paste the meta, even if your build works just as well.

Here is the thing; there are plenty of people (me included) that at one time or another have been in group play, and thought "things are going well" and totally not realized they were being carried.

IF your build does what your part of "pulling your weight" in the group/trial or whatever NEEDs, well then you are fine.

If you get complaints, it's worth considering them. Doesn't mean they are always right - but when multiple someones are testy because you aren't pulling your weight, it's worth a look.

Bradyfjord · April 2020

My thinking on subjects like this is to respect other people.

If you have a preferred way to play, and most of us do, then you should find like-minded people. This is the entire basis of player made guilds. There are guilds for people of all types, such as but not limited to: trading, dungeons, trials, role-playing, and housing.

This goes both ways.

Scenario 1: A role-player joins a dungeon run using a low dps build. After a couple of fights, the group asks the low dps person to improve or leave because the low dps is holding everyone back.

To me, the role-player in this scenario is the bad player.

Scenario 2: A hardcore player joins a group for a session of role-playing. Everyone is in character except for mister hardcore who talks about dps meters and boss fights. The group asks the hardcore player to do some rp or leave because his behavior is ruining everyone else's fun.

To me, the hardcore player in this scenario is the bad player.

TL:DR- There is nothing wrong with wanting to role-play, or to min/max, or whatever play-style you wish. But it is rude to show up for a group activity and not engage in behavior appropriate to that activity.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2020

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Everest_Lionheart · April 2020

My experience I wanted to by Khajiit and I wanted to play as a warden. Mostly to show my scared cat in real life that he can be a brave adventurer instead of hiding every time the doorbell rings. My character is the brave cat he wants to be but he’s still too scared of the world. It’s his fantasy and I live if for him while he lays on the couch and watches!

But in all seriousness the choice I wanted to be in the game happen to synergize well. I wanted to play more efficiently so I also did some research. Played around with a couple different builds and optimized for the way I like to play. Fortunately my choice of race and class can try everything and while it will ever be the best at any one thing it does most everything well enough to be good enough to do most content.

In the end I am her me to have fun and listen to the stories, hunt a few treasures, smack down a few bosses and enjoy the ride. Having a good time so far and still on my first character. I’ll try other races, classes and roles eventually, but there are so many quests left to do before I get there.

Opalblade · April 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

Opalblade wrote: »

Of course there will always be those people that complain if you don't completely copy-paste the meta, even if your build works just as well.

Here is the thing; there are plenty of people (me included) that at one time or another have been in group play, and thought "things are going well" and totally not realized they were being carried.

IF your build does what your part of "pulling your weight" in the group/trial or whatever NEEDs, well then you are fine.

If you get complaints, it's worth considering them. Doesn't mean they are always right - but when multiple someones are testy because you aren't pulling your weight, it's worth a look.

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't consider any complaints, so I hope that's not how I came off. I'm talking about how some people in MMOs seem to get so focused on the meta that they'll complain if you use anything else. When it's a legitimate complaint like "you aren't doing enough damage/healing" or "you suck at holding aggro", I'll usually listen.

Glurin · April 2020

Opalblade wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Opalblade wrote: »

Of course there will always be those people that complain if you don't completely copy-paste the meta, even if your build works just as well.

Here is the thing; there are plenty of people (me included) that at one time or another have been in group play, and thought "things are going well" and totally not realized they were being carried.

IF your build does what your part of "pulling your weight" in the group/trial or whatever NEEDs, well then you are fine.

If you get complaints, it's worth considering them. Doesn't mean they are always right - but when multiple someones are testy because you aren't pulling your weight, it's worth a look.

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't consider any complaints, so I hope that's not how I came off. I'm talking about how some people in MMOs seem to get so focused on the meta that they'll complain if you use anything else. When it's a legitimate complaint like "you aren't doing enough damage/healing" or "you suck at holding aggro", I'll usually listen.

Even those complaints aren't worth listening to most of the time though. "You're not doing enough damage" often translates as "I'm pulling 60% of the group DPS on my uber-cheese build, therefore you suck." Or, more likely, stuff just isn't dying fast enough to satisfy the complainer and actual DPS numbers don't even factor into it at all.

As for "you suck at holding aggro", nine times out of ten it's because the person complaining is using an ice staff with tri-focus or something equally stupid. Aggro in this game is not that complicated. Especially in four-man dungeons.

WilliamESO · April 2020

Doing writs is a waste of time just solo boss in IC and you will save one year of writs did with 18 chars in 3 days

robertthebard · April 2020

Thokri wrote: »

It is fine to do rp-builds on overland, otherwise it is way too easy and gets boring.

On group play it is completely different story unless it is specifically made group for rp.
Forcing others to have inconvinience because of your preferences is in general just a *** move.

In my opinion everyone should do effort to not be burden on group, I actually like if it is bit competive where everyone tries to be better than other.

Pausing on lore-parts and waiting/watching rp-skits is fine for first time but group content is not meant to be single-time events where problems rise. Unless you have brain of goldfish it becomes very dull and boring to just wait without any stimulus and for most they don't want more of dull moments since games are their escape from boring reality.

In short doing not optimizes builds and inefficient style of playing in group content is just extremely rude and selfish since at that point you are only caring about your own enjoyment. Which is not something that should be acceptable behavior even if current media and society has promoted such style of life.

The "solution" to this "problem" is quite simple: Don't do PuGs. It's amazing to me that people will put themselves into a situation where they may be exposed to players that aren't going to play in their "style", and then complain about players not playing in their "style". It's a "this fire is hot, but I'm going to stand in it until it's not" thing, in so far as I can tell. Maybe they're just looking for someone to complain about?

But let me ask a final question: Can you explain the rationale behind claiming one is playing for their own enjoyment, while complaining that doing so wrecks your own enjoyment? We are all of us playing for our own enjoyment, after all. This has nothing to do with today's society. I played Doom when it was Shareware, and I played Baldur's Gate, excessively, because they were fun. I got my own enjoyment out of every game that I've completed, because not every game I've ever played was actually fun, back in the day, when we were walking two miles barefoot through the snow, uphill both ways, to buy games, sometimes they were bad, and that's the only way we ever found out that this was the case, by actually playing them.

I didn't spend hundreds of dollars at the arcade because I had to play a certain way in Galaga, or Pac Man, I spent the money because I was having a good time. You have the tools at your disposal to make sure you never have to play with someone that isn't conforming to your standards, only group in premade groups and presto, you'd never know anyone doesn't do the things you expect them to do.

VaranisArano · April 2020

I expect the random players I get in group content to fill the bare minimum of their role.
Tank: hold aggro, don't die
Healer: heal the team, don't die
Damage Dealers: do sufficient damage to pass the DPS checks in the level of dungeon you queued for

I don't always get what I expect, particularly in the case of fake tanks and low DPS, but I do think those are fairly easy minimums to meet, even for players who are new or inexperienced at running dungeons. If you at least try to fill the bare minimum of your role, I'm not going to care if you are "inefficient" at doing your job.

Its when you refuse to do the bare minimum and I'm watching that refusal make the whole team more inefficient (healer forced to hold boss aggro because of fake tank, boss sprinting out of AOE because no one is taunting, DDs dying because we have a fake healer, DDs who are woefully inadequate for the content they queued up for, etc.) that I get annoyed.

Thokri · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

text

Premade groups is absolutely the answer but form of group play was not discussed and most often default is random assorted group via tool.

Story/rp groups are completely fine and I endorse them as long it does not involve automated tools to searching for others.

What is definition of fun and enjoyment is hard to set in stone and just and general view. ESO has tons of stuff that are not necessary fun (dailies, writs, pledges) but doing them enables you to do more fun content.
It is impossible on any activity to have 100% fun always, it is just how things are.

For example I like driving but I sure as hell don't like driving on cities, traffic or monotonous boring highways.
It is same in games. I love doom but I can not say 100% of every part is absolutely most enjoyable.

Doing what you want on group/pug would be equilvalent of back when you were play arcade, you went around and kicked ass of someone who was already playing so you could play. Ignoring proper social conduct to only care and maximize your own enjoyment.

VocalThought · April 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

starlizard70ub17_ESO · April 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Nothing wrong with roleplay, but do it on your own time. Either by yourself or with people who also specifically want to roleplay.

Otherwise for group content spec for an appropriate level of efficiency.

I agree with the idea of building for group content and leave roleplaying builds for roleplaying. And from what I've seen, most roleplayers are in a roleplaying guild and do their roleplaying within the guild. While I don't RP myself, I've seen other groups do their RP "plays" and they're pretty entertaining.

VocalThought · April 2020

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Nothing wrong with roleplay, but do it on your own time. Either by yourself or with people who also specifically want to roleplay.

Otherwise for group content spec for an appropriate level of efficiency.

I agree with the idea of building for group content and leave roleplaying builds for roleplaying. And from what I've seen, most roleplayers are in a roleplaying guild and do their roleplaying within the guild. While I don't RP myself, I've seen other groups do their RP "plays" and they're pretty entertaining.

So role-playing guilds will help eliminate the criticism. I don't mind constructive criticism, just don't want people trying to force me to deviate from my character.

GeorgeBlack · April 2020

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

Not possible to do vet content with these abilities.

VaranisArano · April 2020

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

You've got Bow/1H and Shield going there, with skills set up for a Stam Warden. That looks like an interesting build for solo play.

When it comes to roles in group content.

If you added Puncture to the 1H&S bar, you'd have the taunt you need in order to play a tank. Stam Wardens can make excellent tanks because they've got the resistances and off-healing to be great at group support and very resilient. Alternatively, the Undaunted skill line has a ranged taunt that you can morph to magicka or stamina. (As another option, with Invasion, you have a charge ability that could proc the taunt from the Tormentor set, but YMMV on whether its worth investing in that set.)

Without Puncture or another taunt, you'll probably be looking at damage dealer. Your skills aren't very efficient for damage, so I'd recommend practicing at a training dummy to see how much DPS you do. That'll be a good guide to what level of dungeons you will be best at. Most normal dungeons are fine with 7-10k+ damage, though you'll want higher for DLCs or faster completions. I generally recommend 15k+ for Vet dungeons, with higher for DLCs or faster completions.

If you wanted to do a healer, Warden is one of the few who can actually make Stam Healer work. You'll want to pick up Vigor from PVP and some more skills from your Green Balance skill line to make it work.

robertthebard · April 2020

Thokri wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

text

Premade groups is absolutely the answer but form of group play was not discussed and most often default is random assorted group via tool.

Story/rp groups are completely fine and I endorse them as long it does not involve automated tools to searching for others.

What is definition of fun and enjoyment is hard to set in stone and just and general view. ESO has tons of stuff that are not necessary fun (dailies, writs, pledges) but doing them enables you to do more fun content.
It is impossible on any activity to have 100% fun always, it is just how things are.

For example I like driving but I sure as hell don't like driving on cities, traffic or monotonous boring highways.
It is same in games. I love doom but I can not say 100% of every part is absolutely most enjoyable.

Doing what you want on group/pug would be equilvalent of back when you were play arcade, you went around and kicked ass of someone who was already playing so you could play. Ignoring proper social conduct to only care and maximize your own enjoyment.

Except that, in your scenario, I'd choose whom to bully off a machine, instead of just randomly being dropped on one. In this case, premade is exactly what's required to ensure you get the group you want. Don't get me wrong here, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to get your group, your way, and if there was no possible way to get a premade, you'd have a very valid point. However, this isn't the case, and hitting a random queue expecting to get a perfect group every time is dicey, at best.

Artanisul · April 2020

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

That is....interesting?

That is a whole bunch of healing. Has it been necessary to have that many heals? You seem to have few attacks in your skill set. Is it just the animations you wanted to be able to do?

In short, that set up seems to be exactly what the min maxers point to when they say " building however you want will make the group carry you." You arent a damage dealer. You can self heal.....alot. You can't tank with no taunt. The closest to a role that build would be is "explorer."

Wlnamp · April 2020

to give access to api interface, adons, so that everyone could compare who is better or worse in one or another indicator was the biggest mistake. I would say the biggest mistake in the history of the game
This led to a bunch of unnecessary conversations, the appearance of the best, convenient and other builds.
They themselves created a huge layer of problems that no one had ever thought about before.
On PC versions, this led to huge pieces of content such as finding treasure, searching for fragments, searching for resources ceased to be what it was without adons.
Access to information on damage immediately led to the interweaving of players into castes, lowering everyone into the medieval age. These are just a few examples of how players themselves have begged for limits.
I really envy players on consoles who cannot use adons. For them, the game is like an adventure.

VocalThought · April 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

You've got Bow/1H and Shield going there, with skills set up for a Stam Warden. That looks like an interesting build for solo play.

When it comes to roles in group content.

If you added Puncture to the 1H&S bar, you'd have the taunt you need in order to play a tank. Stam Wardens can make excellent tanks because they've got the resistances and off-healing to be great at group support and very resilient.

Without Puncture or another taunt, you'll probably be looking at damage dealer. Your skills aren't very efficient for damage, so I'd recommend practicing at a training dummy to see how much DPS you do.

If you wanted to do a healer, Warden is one of the few who can actually make Stam Healer work. You'll want to pick up Vigor from PVP and some more skills from your Green Balance skill line to make it work.

Artanisul wrote: »

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

That is....interesting?

That is a whole bunch of healing. Has it been necessary to have that many heals? You seem to have few attacks in your skill set. Is it just the animations you wanted to be able to do?

In short, that set up seems to be exactly what the min maxers point to when they say " building however you want will make the group carry you." You arent a damage dealer. You can self heal.....alot. You can't tank with no taunt. The closest to a role that build would be is "explorer."

So, it seems that based on the skills I have, I'm best suited to have a Tank, but I would need to add Puncture to my Back Bar, either replacing Deep Slash or Arctic Winds, then I'll be viable in group content, and more likely make my back bar my front bar, since I'm tanking.

Jack_Of_Shades · April 2020

Well, this is precisely why I stay away from group/PvP content. I don't wish to get on and be "challenged" endlessly while trying to relax. Life has a steady way of doing that already. I play to have fun. Unfortunately, a lot of content is behind PvP and group/trials.

And many players are quite competetive, which means you need to be optimal or you wont be allowed to join. None of that really interests me. Typically I also stick with playing with 2 people on this game. And I don't bother with others. Reason being?

I've always wanted to play a co-op elder scrolls game, or fallout. So, since this is all we have right now, we make due. We just act as if no one else is online. We then enjoy overland content and MAYBE do Dragonstar, if we want a challenge. Other than that, we wish it was simply co-op.

-Jack Of Shades, The Mysterious Sage

Everest_Lionheart · April 2020

Artanisul wrote: »

VocalThought wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's somewhat of a broad range of latitude to be found between the mathematically proven best-in-slot and the off-meta-but-still-viable builds.

You just need to go in with your eyes open and realize that some things are simply never going to work, such as a Heavy Armor stamDPS character using Destruction Staves. But outside of just prima facie incompatible gear and skill combinations, you actually have a broad palette with which to work.

Such combinations include: very effective Bow/Bow, 2H/2H, DW/2H, stamHealer builds, and, if you lower your expectations a smidge: DW Sword/Destro magDPS and 2H Sword/Destro magDPS. And that is leaving aside sub-specializations such as Ice Mage or Bleed builds.

There really are many ways to play effectively that aren't the boring meta DW/Bow or Inferno/Inferno setups. I would suggest planning them out before using a tool such as the UESP Build Editor.

Do you feel that there are some combinations of skill loadout that should not be? I personally like to play with a particular set of skills, maybe then someone could tell me what role I should play, what gear I should focus on getting, as and what CP I should place from there. I'm not going out my way to put together something that's not meant to work. I'm trying create a character with particular abilities and would like feedback what would work best for them, not how to change them to someone else. For example, I have a Bosmer Wardan. Front Bar: Focused Aim, Draining Shot, Frozen Retreat, Shuffle, Camouflage Hunter, and Wild Guardian.Back Bar: Deep Slash, Invasion, Arctic Blast, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, and Healing Thicket. With these skills staying the same, what role would you say this is?

That is....interesting?

That is a whole bunch of healing. Has it been necessary to have that many heals? You seem to have few attacks in your skill set. Is it just the animations you wanted to be able to do?

In short, that set up seems to be exactly what the min maxers point to when they say " building however you want will make the group carry you." You arent a damage dealer. You can self heal.....alot. You can't tank with no taunt. The closest to a role that build would be is "explorer."

I went with a warden built mostly for solo play. I’ve only done group content maybe half a dozen times and nobody has complained yet. I use a DW/Bow setup with all craftable gear, purple hundings rage with stamina enchants. I modified my weapons a bit from the meta though, one dagger has absorb health the other absorb stamina. Haven’t got monster pieces yet for the boosts but I will eventually. Run blue food to boost health/stam it’s a must in groups or soloing dungeons. Delves and overland food not necessary.

Front bar: Blood thirst, blood craze, growing swarm, bull netch, green lotus, wild guardian

Back bar: Endless hail, gripping shards, crystal slab, enchanted growth, bird of prey and wild guardian.

The front bar is my bread and butter, the back bar is there to save my behind when I’m really in deep trouble. I usually hit battles in this order: netch, lotus, growing swarm, bar swap, endless hail, dodge roll in, gripping shards, bar swap, then LA>skill alternate with my DW skills. I’ll stay on the front bar most of the time and I am good with keeping netch and lotus up and those combined with my weapon enchants and DW skills are my sustain. I’ve got the back bar heal and crystal slab to bail myself out. Bird of prey to run like hell but it’s also nice for the haste when I have to use my bow on the run. Had it on the front bar for a while actually but netch and lotus are more important because I stand in there and take a pounding to deal bigger damage. Solo play I’m trying to take down all the support style target ASAP, group play I can go full ham on the boss so long as the tank holds aggro.

I do sacrifice some damage with all the time I spend on 1 bar but manage to get some back bar skills in when I can. Biggest issue is sustain. There isn’t enough stamina pool to go around!

Kadoin · April 2020

Do whatever you want, if someone doesn't like you, let them kick you. So far no one has ever kicked my hybrid I did vMA with

Too bad ZOS' nerfing will target it again...

Nevermind, don't do as you want. The meta is supported by ZOS

Mindcr0w · April 2020

But let me ask a final question: Can you explain the rationale behind claiming one is playing for their own enjoyment, while complaining that doing so wrecks your own enjoyment?

It is about reasonable expectations.

If FG1 is one of the daily pledges for the day and you use the group finder tool to pug FG1 you have an absolute expectation that the people you end up grouped with are there to actually complete FG1.

If however you random queue into FG1 and start explaining to your pug group that you are a mycologist who is there to peacefully study the fungi and could you all please not antagonize the goblins so you may go about your studies your expectation should be that you are going to get a wedgie, followed by a swirly, followed by being kicked from the group.