People shy away from vet content because of players

AgaTheGreat · April 2020

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

kongkim · April 2020

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

Or maybe its people thinking like you that is the problem...

Mind blowing right

Jeremy · April 2020

There are those players who believe they have the be all end all strategy on how to play this game. And when others veer from what they believe, they have a hissy fit.

Then there are the spoiled players so used to nuking the content they have a cow if a fight takes longer than 5 minutes.

The worse kind: are those who just kick people at the beginning due to low CP or other nonsense before giving a player a chance.

None of these players should be using the group finder and should instead form their own "elite" groups.

There are also players who are not ready for Veteran Content and should stick to normal. Though considering the erratic difficulty swings in this game it's hard to fault the player for that.

AlayneStone · April 2020

I've seen alot of hate for new players or players who aren't 'gud' seen alot of hate for players who are good.... lots of high lvl players help lower players everyday, some don't. Sometimes people who need to improve won't listen....Seen both sides be rude, there is no set group of people doing it.

LadyNalcarya · April 2020

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

True. There is this problem with "anti-elitists", they meet someone rude in group finder and automatically assume that every good player is like this (not knowing that the rude guy from group finder might've just been really bad and angry about not getting carried).
But honestly it's not surprising that people who spew nonsense about "elitists" and hate on raid guilds have problems finding groups. It's like with those guys who form their identity around spreading misogynistic bs and then complain about not having a girlfriend... Surprise surprise, people don't like being treated like trash.

robertthebard · April 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

True. There is this problem with "anti-elitists", they meet someone rude in group finder and automatically assume that every good player is like this (not knowing that the rude guy from group finder might've just been really bad and angry about not getting carried).
But honestly it's not surprising that people who spew nonsense about "elitists" and hate on raid guilds have problems finding groups. It's like with those guys who form their identity around spreading misogynistic bs and then complain about not having a girlfriend... Surprise surprise, people don't like being treated like trash.

Here's my issue:

We can pretend that the endgame crowd is full of saints, that will never fly off the handle, or troll players that they feel are underperforming, or may well be underperforming in their groups, but the problem is, I've read this topic, from the first post to here. We've got one poster that's extremely proud of themselves for booting a DPS and making them hit the timer for re-entry, as I read the post, it's after said DPS killed a boss solo, so the only reason was what, rage that they could do it? Maybe they were hoping to avoid future embarrassment, or maybe they were just being an ass?

I've been playing these games for 15 years and change. I can tell you, with no uncertainty at all, that toxic players exist on all ends of the spectrum, I've seen them at work. Healers in DDO that cry about someone not having enough HP to run a quest, and then being the first one to die, despite having the "right" HP for it. I guess they should have been more focused on the mechanics, eh? Same type of thing in swtor, where a dps was crying for 20 minutes about the healer's gear, only to die in the raid bosses only big attack, that gives you at least 30 seconds to get out of the way. How? They didn't get out of the way. Story Mode operation group leaders requiring Nightmare rated gear, when the gear drops in the raid they're fixing to run.

So chalk it up to whatever you like, come here and tell your friends whatever you like, but let's not pretend this toxicity is some kind of fiction, because I'm sure we both know better.

Runefang · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

True. There is this problem with "anti-elitists", they meet someone rude in group finder and automatically assume that every good player is like this (not knowing that the rude guy from group finder might've just been really bad and angry about not getting carried).
But honestly it's not surprising that people who spew nonsense about "elitists" and hate on raid guilds have problems finding groups. It's like with those guys who form their identity around spreading misogynistic bs and then complain about not having a girlfriend... Surprise surprise, people don't like being treated like trash.

Here's my issue:

We can pretend that the endgame crowd is full of saints, that will never fly off the handle, or troll players that they feel are underperforming, or may well be underperforming in their groups, but the problem is, I've read this topic, from the first post to here. We've got one poster that's extremely proud of themselves for booting a DPS and making them hit the timer for re-entry, as I read the post, it's after said DPS killed a boss solo, so the only reason was what, rage that they could do it? Maybe they were hoping to avoid future embarrassment, or maybe they were just being an ass?

I've been playing these games for 15 years and change. I can tell you, with no uncertainty at all, that toxic players exist on all ends of the spectrum, I've seen them at work. Healers in DDO that cry about someone not having enough HP to run a quest, and then being the first one to die, despite having the "right" HP for it. I guess they should have been more focused on the mechanics, eh? Same type of thing in swtor, where a dps was crying for 20 minutes about the healer's gear, only to die in the raid bosses only big attack, that gives you at least 30 seconds to get out of the way. How? They didn't get out of the way. Story Mode operation group leaders requiring Nightmare rated gear, when the gear drops in the raid they're fixing to run.

So chalk it up to whatever you like, come here and tell your friends whatever you like, but let's not pretend this toxicity is some kind of fiction, because I'm sure we both know better.

I don't think anybody is saying the end-game crowd has no toxic players, they definitely exist. I've seen it plenty of times, they're just often toxic towards other end-gamers who they think aren't performing to their standards.

Nobody pulling 90k dps on a dummy cares for 2 seconds what the other players in a pug are doing unless it'll wipe the group. They definitely don't care what the other dps pulls.

robertthebard · April 2020

Runefang wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

True. There is this problem with "anti-elitists", they meet someone rude in group finder and automatically assume that every good player is like this (not knowing that the rude guy from group finder might've just been really bad and angry about not getting carried).
But honestly it's not surprising that people who spew nonsense about "elitists" and hate on raid guilds have problems finding groups. It's like with those guys who form their identity around spreading misogynistic bs and then complain about not having a girlfriend... Surprise surprise, people don't like being treated like trash.

Here's my issue:

We can pretend that the endgame crowd is full of saints, that will never fly off the handle, or troll players that they feel are underperforming, or may well be underperforming in their groups, but the problem is, I've read this topic, from the first post to here. We've got one poster that's extremely proud of themselves for booting a DPS and making them hit the timer for re-entry, as I read the post, it's after said DPS killed a boss solo, so the only reason was what, rage that they could do it? Maybe they were hoping to avoid future embarrassment, or maybe they were just being an ass?

I've been playing these games for 15 years and change. I can tell you, with no uncertainty at all, that toxic players exist on all ends of the spectrum, I've seen them at work. Healers in DDO that cry about someone not having enough HP to run a quest, and then being the first one to die, despite having the "right" HP for it. I guess they should have been more focused on the mechanics, eh? Same type of thing in swtor, where a dps was crying for 20 minutes about the healer's gear, only to die in the raid bosses only big attack, that gives you at least 30 seconds to get out of the way. How? They didn't get out of the way. Story Mode operation group leaders requiring Nightmare rated gear, when the gear drops in the raid they're fixing to run.

So chalk it up to whatever you like, come here and tell your friends whatever you like, but let's not pretend this toxicity is some kind of fiction, because I'm sure we both know better.

I don't think anybody is saying the end-game crowd has no toxic players, they definitely exist. I've seen it plenty of times, they're just often toxic towards other end-gamers who they think aren't performing to their standards.

Nobody pulling 90k dps on a dummy cares for 2 seconds what the other players in a pug are doing unless it'll wipe the group. They definitely don't care what the other dps pulls.

I'd like to agree with that, I truly would, but there's two threads aside from this one on the first two pages that are full of posts that indicate something else entirely. Either way, it doesn't affect me, as my physical health prevents me from running this type of content with anything like regularity. I just find it amusing that, with the ability to run premade groups, we still have people complaining about how/what other players are doing.

Anhedonie · April 2020

I mean...I'm always open to anyone in game and will be wiling to help in any way I can, be it theorycrafting, organizing trial groups for people who are just starting to try normal/vet non-hm trials, crafting starting gear or even farming advanced gear.
Even explaining LA weaving, bash weaving, animation cancelling and such. And it's ok to fail several times.

But how the *** do you expect me to react to people who can't even read passives? Like these *** *** that aggro *** in random dungeons with their *** ice staff and then proceed to aggro on people for not tanking/healing, considering it's their fault they gave a boss *** taunt immunity. Or this *** bowtards with their *** 1 000 dps that spam light attacks and sometimes press Acid Spray and they get angry that another damage dealer can't *** carry that ignorant *** through the veteran MoonHunter Keep?

When people are new, but are open to the feedback it's cool. But when they are dense *** that don't even want to improve, what the *** the rest are supposed to do? Suffer the consequences of these ignorant ***?

Paralyse · April 2020

I have had generally good experience with the Dungeon Finder for Normal content. I am CP 660 something and pull 10-20k dps single target and 20-30k burst aoe, and no idea how to really improve that without dungeon and monster sets. I have not run any Veteran content nor Trials at any level because I don't really want to risk being the reason why a run is unsuccessful and ruin the content for those players who ARE experienced and playing at a higher level. I am not in a PvE guild so I don't really have "entry" into that content anyway. Craglorn chat is usually CONSTANTLY going with groups forming up, though.

By and large though the players I have met in random content who DO have experience running higher level endgame stuff have been friendly and willing to teach me mechanics or tips on how to improve my performance. So thank you to all of the folks out there who have been helpful and friendly. For a couple of years back when I was much younger I was hardcore into raiding in WoW (LK era) so I'm not an idiot and I have the ability to understand both mechanics and parses with a bit of patience and practice.

One thing that might be helpful is giving players the ability to pledge and queue either with or without DLC dungeons enabled. The DLC dungeons seem to have mechanics that are considerably more complex in some cases and if you are a new player just learning how to do dungeons, you don't want to get one of those DLC dungeons as your first experience, because not everyone is helpful, patient, or friendly. Perhaps the rewards could be adjusted to make it more worth the time for those players who are experienced / comfortable with the DLC dungeon mechanics, as a bonus for "opting in" to DLC.

A final tip for players who are nervous about dungeons: if you're new, don't be afraid to ask for help understanding things such as mechanics or boss fights, or ask for suggestions. The number of nice / helpful people seems to be quite a bit higher than the number of mean / rude people in my experience so far.

iJuacob · April 2020

In my eyes the moment you join a pug, people have expectations. When I pug a veteran dungeon my expectations are really low. Like when you q up as dps you have to at least have an x-amount of dps to clear it. But if the tank is dealing more dps than a DD it's clear there is a problem. And I can be friendly about it and telling you that you are not "veteran" enough to clear it. But it depends on how you see it. Some people as above whine and say elitist bs. But other people learn from it and improve, learn to be better.

You can all roleplay all you want but the moment you q up as a DD you have to deal some damage. Because as a group we expect you to do your role like how I do my role.

Sylvermynx · April 2020

Well.... after 6 pages of stuff....

The original premise (the OP if you will) "People shy away from vet content because of <snipped by admin but yes I saw it, and I thought it was antagonistic in the extreme> isn't at all why I don't do "vet content". First, I spent 2006-2013 doing endgame in WoW and RIFT with family guilds. Second, after that, I really had/have no interest in "endgame" now. Burnt to a cinder. Third, the endgame stuff in this game is not and never would be what I would consider fun even if I hadn't already walked the coals.

Some of us.... just aren't ever going to go there again.

Now, corollary to that: fourth - my ping though far better now than back in the other games (still satellite, but HughesNet is much faster than WildBlue) is not anything I would ever be willing to ask groups to deal with. The only reason marginal connection worked back then for me was that it was family. They knew what they were getting into from the word go (as they were MY guilds from the beginning, and after they all started playing - yep, I was the first, then my daughter, SIL, both g'daughters, sister, nephew, several of his friends and his wife all hopped in - they were fine with the situation); I'm not going to push that issue off on people in this game, where so many already have issues simply doing normal actions.

And that's the bottom line for me: I play solo for the most part, and have no issues with the pve endgame and pvp situations those of you who are here for that alone do. I don't have any problems with the pve part of the game.

And I really am sorry those of you who pvp and do trials, vet dungeons.... are unable to actually play for the most part. I don't know that there's anything I can do to help you.

PrayingSeraph · April 2020

I'm cp 810 on Xbox NA and been playing for years. My personal experience is this: I have never found a trial guild that wasnt full of elitists, and I have tried. Its not that expecting cp is elitist, but the attitudes and lack of patience. Some person makes a mistake and gets attacked for it in front of 11 other people, or guilted by moans and elaborate sighs from the others. I've basically given up on trial guilds.

PrayingSeraph · April 2020

Anhedonie wrote: »

I mean...I'm always open to anyone in game and will be wiling to help in any way I can, be it theorycrafting, organizing trial groups for people who are just starting to try normal/vet non-hm trials, crafting starting gear or even farming advanced gear.
Even explaining LA weaving, bash weaving, animation cancelling and such. And it's ok to fail several times.

But how the *** do you expect me to react to people who can't even read passives? Like these *** *** that aggro *** in random dungeons with their *** ice staff and then proceed to aggro on people for not tanking/healing, considering it's their fault they gave a boss *** taunt immunity. Or this *** bowtards with their *** 1 000 dps that spam light attacks and sometimes press Acid Spray and they get angry that another damage dealer can't *** carry that ignorant *** through the veteran MoonHunter Keep?

When people are new, but are open to the feedback it's cool. But when they are dense *** that don't even want to improve, what the *** the rest are supposed to do? Suffer the consequences of these ignorant ***?

Given what I just read here, I highly doubt your feedback comes off as feedback. Dont bother trying to teach people if you lack patience. Teaching is a skill and most arent great at it. If you lack patience and dont teach(which is perfectly fine!), just play with those you know can preform.

Recent · April 2020

I agree with you OP 100%.

Unfortunately, the toxic, nasty, selfish, narcissists either wont bother to read this post because they don't care or they will read it and argue your point or they will just troll. The people that agree with you will always care about helping players grow and will encourage others. It's just how gaming and real life is.

LadyNalcarya · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

The myth of the toxic elitist lives on. SMH.

Casual / low skill / beginner player can be ten times worse.

So called elitists play only in their own circle but ask them for help and they'll write you an essay and help you as much as they could. The problem is that most people don't know how to accept advice or when someone disagrees with their incorrect thinking.

True. There is this problem with "anti-elitists", they meet someone rude in group finder and automatically assume that every good player is like this (not knowing that the rude guy from group finder might've just been really bad and angry about not getting carried).
But honestly it's not surprising that people who spew nonsense about "elitists" and hate on raid guilds have problems finding groups. It's like with those guys who form their identity around spreading misogynistic bs and then complain about not having a girlfriend... Surprise surprise, people don't like being treated like trash.

Here's my issue:

We can pretend that the endgame crowd is full of saints, that will never fly off the handle, or troll players that they feel are underperforming, or may well be underperforming in their groups, but the problem is, I've read this topic, from the first post to here. We've got one poster that's extremely proud of themselves for booting a DPS and making them hit the timer for re-entry, as I read the post, it's after said DPS killed a boss solo, so the only reason was what, rage that they could do it? Maybe they were hoping to avoid future embarrassment, or maybe they were just being an ass?

I've been playing these games for 15 years and change. I can tell you, with no uncertainty at all, that toxic players exist on all ends of the spectrum, I've seen them at work. Healers in DDO that cry about someone not having enough HP to run a quest, and then being the first one to die, despite having the "right" HP for it. I guess they should have been more focused on the mechanics, eh? Same type of thing in swtor, where a dps was crying for 20 minutes about the healer's gear, only to die in the raid bosses only big attack, that gives you at least 30 seconds to get out of the way. How? They didn't get out of the way. Story Mode operation group leaders requiring Nightmare rated gear, when the gear drops in the raid they're fixing to run.

So chalk it up to whatever you like, come here and tell your friends whatever you like, but let's not pretend this toxicity is some kind of fiction, because I'm sure we both know better.

No one said that endgame crowd is full of saints. But raiding, like other group activity, attracts team players who are more likely to support others. You can talk to endgame players on numerous ESO discords, and a lot of them are actually willing to help. Not to mention countless guides, videos etc... Even managing a raid group actually takes a surprising amount of effort.
And yes, there is toxicity. The original title of this topic is a shining example of it.

Malmai · April 2020

Top tier players almost never run pugs, the only toxic people are the wannabes who blame it on others and they are at a bit slighty higher level than some new player...

newtinmpls · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

<snippage>

booting a DPS and making them hit the timer for re-entry, as I read the post, it's after said DPS killed a boss solo, so the only reason was what, rage that they could do it?

In all seriousness, when going into a 4-man group dungeon, in order to get the loot, which will usually include sets unique to that dungeon, you must participate in the fight. A DPS who runs ahead and kills a boss solo has just screwed the rest of his/her team mates out of that drops from that boss.

If it's the last boss of the dungeon, then the DPS may also have screwed up the "completion" of the dungeon.

So yes, if DPS runs ahead to solo parts of the dungeon, the get one warning from me, with reasons. If they begin to pull that crap on a boss, then I will vote to kick.

kaisernick · April 2020

iiRenity wrote: »

And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff.

Exactly. I'm getting close to the 700s in my CP, but I don't do trials. Not because I don't want to, I definitely do--there's so many achievements and gear that I want to get. However, I'm not willing to fight with people who expect perfection from the start and aren't patient with those learning. It's one of the same reasons I avoid most PVP groups. The chance of toxicity is way too high. ESO, for the most part, is a great community, but there's definitely places to improve.

I wouldnt shy away from trials espically normal ones as the amount of players means you can often be ok doing sub par dps espically in guilds the guilds im in run normals for players to get gear often because they already have vet gear and dont need it, so while i cannot comment on pug trials id try for a guild one as that normally the reasoon they run them.

But as for the overall topic i dont think it helps that undaunted gear can only be gotten in vet dungons because how is a new player supposed to get the gear to improve their dps if the dungon (espically the dlc ones) is locked only behind vet.

Xologamer · April 2020

kaisernick wrote: »

iiRenity wrote: »

And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff.

Exactly. I'm getting close to the 700s in my CP, but I don't do trials. Not because I don't want to, I definitely do--there's so many achievements and gear that I want to get. However, I'm not willing to fight with people who expect perfection from the start and aren't patient with those learning. It's one of the same reasons I avoid most PVP groups. The chance of toxicity is way too high. ESO, for the most part, is a great community, but there's definitely places to improve.

I wouldnt shy away from trials espically normal ones as the amount of players means you can often be ok doing sub par dps espically in guilds the guilds im in run normals for players to get gear often because they already have vet gear and dont need it, so while i cannot comment on pug trials id try for a guild one as that normally the reasoon they run them.

But as for the overall topic i dont think it helps that undaunted gear can only be gotten in vet dungons because how is a new player supposed to get the gear to improve their dps if the dungon (espically the dlc ones) is locked only behind vet.

a player shoudlnt have everything from the start

iTzStevey · April 2020

Imo it's not the players, it's the content itself. You can only reskin a one shot mechanic so many times before it gets boring. And pve in this game gets boring insanely quick.

MJallday · April 2020

Wait till you see a vet group on console if you think PC is toxic...

Raudgrani · April 2020

A few years ago, it was very common for people to talk over voice chat on Xbox EU. Like, as soon as you ran into problems, someone went like "Hello? Hello? Yeah, hi... You know the mechanics here, no? OK... It's like this....". These days people rarely even answer text chat, if you try to communicate. I don't say everyone's like that, but I can see a huge increase in that.

Also, there's a lot of low CP doing amazingly well now. Have been running as DD or tank with a group of like 250-400 cp, and was skeptical thinking like "Oh my, this ain't gonna end well...", but we still finished vet DLC dungeons without saying a word. Not no-death runs or hardmode or whatever, but still even newer vet DLC dungeons. There was a time when you couldn't even finish Blackheart Haven on normal with such a group.

One bad thing about no communication is, that you come across these HORRIBLY bad players, running like (no joke) bow/resto on some sort of stamsorc, spamming snipe until stamina runs out, then goes to hardcasting frags until magicka runs out - and that's their rotation. And you can't even help set them on the right track.
Earlier, it was pretty easy to say something like: "Hey, xxxx. Can you just try this, look at your bow skills. Try using Volley and Poison Arrow if you are gonna stick to using bow, otherwise just Wall of Elements, Lightning Flood and heavy attacking with a Shock Staff is pretty good, especially if you also have both pets up. It's good because you can also keep Hardened Ward and or Harness Magicka up too, then you don't die that easily - try that!", and people could actually listen and did sort of well. I've been having and hearing others have those conversations back in the days, but not anymore.

I tried to get a Stonekeeper helm the other day with activity finder, but it's like - even skilled players (judging from skins, titles etc.) leave at the door without saying a word. Because they know it will be a [snip] deluxe. In the end, I had to ask a guild for help. A place like that is impossible without people knowing mechanics, or at least not listening. Same with Unhallowed grave, too much mechanics for NOT communicating.

Earlier you got kicked "for being bad", now those people previously kicking others leave group, instead of even trying to help OR get rid of the ones not ready for the content at hand.

[edited for profanity]

kaisernick · April 2020

Xologamer wrote: »

kaisernick wrote: »

iiRenity wrote: »

And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff.

Exactly. I'm getting close to the 700s in my CP, but I don't do trials. Not because I don't want to, I definitely do--there's so many achievements and gear that I want to get. However, I'm not willing to fight with people who expect perfection from the start and aren't patient with those learning. It's one of the same reasons I avoid most PVP groups. The chance of toxicity is way too high. ESO, for the most part, is a great community, but there's definitely places to improve.

I wouldnt shy away from trials espically normal ones as the amount of players means you can often be ok doing sub par dps espically in guilds the guilds im in run normals for players to get gear often because they already have vet gear and dont need it, so while i cannot comment on pug trials id try for a guild one as that normally the reasoon they run them.

But as for the overall topic i dont think it helps that undaunted gear can only be gotten in vet dungons because how is a new player supposed to get the gear to improve their dps if the dungon (espically the dlc ones) is locked only behind vet.

a player shoudlnt have everything from the start

did i say they should? No.

But the attitude of people who wont even ataine the notion of helping those get the gear they need by accepting someone with less dps, or less effective heals plus the face that there is zero chance of getting the undaunted helms from normal means people have to go through vet content to even have a chance of upping their dps.

A simple soloution is to have say a 20% chance that a undaunted helm can drop from normal or have another way to get them prehaps via keys, that way players who may not be geared yet have a chance even if its only a very slim one.

TheRealDrRat · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

For a long time i was wondering why it is so rare that you actually see a let alone vet trial group in zone chat a vet dungeon group. And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff. [snip]

I have 2 dedicated PvE guilds rn and when i have low CP players in my group i always try to help them instead of instantly kicking them, same goes for high CP low dps or low exp. Because even if you cannot clear the contet you can help people see their limits and make them realize they can improve in some areas instead of pushing them away from it.

So please be helpfull not toxic. Otherwise we are doomed to play this game alone.

Edit: I should add this because a lot of people misunderstood my point, i am not saying run vet content with complete low CP group. But having few of them around and making them see for themselves they are not ready for the content doesn't really hurt the progress of the content(because usually they are dead most of the time and at the end of the run they understand if they are ready or not.). For example if i have few low cp players in my group, i always invite some guildies that i trust so we can compansate for them. If dps is so undoable you can politely point out to related parties they should work out o certain areas so they can run the place successfully. But i have seen some ugly conversations against new players that i would rather never see again, because it is disgusting.

[edited for baiting/bashing]

I agree, having a audacious group/player kick a newer player without explanation can be a little harsh, and I think sometimes people forget that on the other end there is a real, living, breathing human behind the screen. I understand that doing a vet-trial with a lower level (say 160CP) is kind of ridiculous, but I think some explanation can go a long way; especially considering they are new to the game and may not have friends who can lend some guidance. Now, for a group to kick a non-maxed player (who is quite capable) on non-HM content is a little presumptuous.

Bobby_V_Rockit · April 2020

I avoid vet content (played since 2015, 1180CP) because two reasons. One: I dont reach the DPS I am “supposed” to have in order to do so, according to players. Two: having played as long as I have, advice generally irritates me now as I know the problem is with MY skill ceiling, so other players telling me stuff I already know but cant do puts me off

Tigerseye · April 2020

Bradyfjord wrote: »

@Tigerseye
Did he taunt? Did he use some cc?
That's what it takes.

No, he didn't do either.

That's what I mean - it was like there was no tank there, at all, all the time.

Like how it is when the tank has died, even though he was still alive (sometimes!).

Only time you knew he was there was when he was swearing and/or telling people tacts.

So, he's looked up tactics, he just had lowish CP and didn't know how to tank.

There are just too many people, like that, in random vets.

They know the tactics, presumably because they have watched them religiously on Youtube, but they don't yet know their role very well and/or just don't have the CP to do it sufficiently well, through no fault of their own.

By suffiently well, I don't mean ridiculously well - just sufficiently, so you're not relying on someone else to do it all for you.

I've decided to just skip vet dungeons, over a certain (lowish) difficulty, unless I am in a premade group with other reasonably high (hopefully max+) CP players.

I just find it too exhausting, because in groups with mostly low CP players, average DPS is (obviously) low.

This would be bad enough to deal with, but it then becomes even lower than it would otherwise be, because heals are also, normally, low/virtually non-existent and tank probably can't either stay alive reliably, or hold aggro.

Therefore, you have to use far more defense and heals yourself, all the time, lowering the average DPS even more.

Low average DPS then means you have to know mechanics perfectly, when it comes to harder bosses, because you end up doing those hard mechanics repeatedly.

Meaning there are far more chances for something to go horribly wrong.

It takes too long, frankly.

It's not that I don't want to play with low CP players, in general, or that I don't accept that you get what the queueing system says you might get.

...and it's not that I'm saying low CP players can't be good at playing games, or knowledgable.

It's just that I don't have the energy, or the inclination, to both try to deal with barely familiar and complicated mechanics, multiple times and to try to do DPS for two, heal and even tank some of the time.

I can do/learn harder mechanics, or I can carry to an extent; not both.

It's sometimes worse than raiding in WoW, in terms of how utterly draining it is, because at least there, there is a limit to how much lower someone's ilvl normally is below yours and there also isn't an inexorable link between experience of playing that particular game and ilvl, like there is here re. CP.

As level and ilvl keep going up every xpac, so someone could be a really experienced WoW player (of a certain class and role), but just have lower ilvl in that xpac.

Whereas, here, unless someone is on a second, or third, account, lower CP does basically say they haven't been playing that long.

Also, no one seems to appreciate how tired you can get, especially after a few of these kind of runs, with low CP players.

Even when you do clear them.

I just can't be bothered anymore.

I have the CP, from doing other things, but I don't have the experience of having done these harder dungeons, at vet level, multiple times.

So, I can't even compensate through a deep understanding of exactly how they all work.

...and why haven't I done them much?

Because, partly, I didn't want to impose my lower CP self on higher CP players.

So, I waited until I wouldn't be so much of a liability.

Having waited, I now need a higher minimum CP option, on the harder vets, at least until they become second nature to me, or it's just not worth it.

Then, after that, maybe I could go and basically carry people (purely due to high CP) through them, occasionally, but not until then.

karekiz · April 2020

.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

No one said that endgame crowd is full of saints. But raiding, like other group activity, attracts team players who are more likely to support others. You can talk to endgame players on numerous ESO discords, and a lot of them are actually willing to help. Not to mention countless guides, videos etc... Even managing a raid group actually takes a surprising amount of effort.
And yes, there is toxicity. The original title of this topic is a shining example of it.

*I don't know full story just what I read or posted*

I dunno, I dropped one of those discords because while the lower end person was wrong mathematically speaking, they ended up flipping out on the guy with "I can join whatever group etc etc." Posting as much as they can on discord. The response that caused that was "Hey, that is how we run things, and if you feel as its not up for you then there are other raids available". To me that's just a sign to walk away.

But the person flipped out about it.

As someone who joined that discord. I rolled my eyes and walked off. So if I disagreed about one thing I can expect that? Sorry there is a pandemic going on, rather not get railed on by some person with a heightened sense of self about a game hiding behind a screen.

Lotus781 · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

For a long time i was wondering why it is so rare that you actually see a let alone vet trial group in zone chat a vet dungeon group. And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff. [snip]

I have 2 dedicated PvE guilds rn and when i have low CP players in my group i always try to help them instead of instantly kicking them, same goes for high CP low dps or low exp. Because even if you cannot clear the contet you can help people see their limits and make them realize they can improve in some areas instead of pushing them away from it.

So please be helpfull not toxic. Otherwise we are doomed to play this game alone.

Edit: I should add this because a lot of people misunderstood my point, i am not saying run vet content with complete low CP group. But having few of them around and making them see for themselves they are not ready for the content doesn't really hurt the progress of the content(because usually they are dead most of the time and at the end of the run they understand if they are ready or not.). For example if i have few low cp players in my group, i always invite some guildies that i trust so we can compansate for them. If dps is so undoable you can politely point out to related parties they should work out o certain areas so they can run the place successfully. But i have seen some ugly conversations against new players that i would rather never see again, because it is disgusting.

[edited for baiting/bashing]

"Amen brother"

newtinmpls · April 2020

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

having played as long as I have, advice generally irritates me now as I know the problem is with MY skill ceiling, so other players telling me stuff I already know but cant do puts me off

I get you. This is my reaction to the whole "actions per minute" discussion. No I'm not crippled, but my finger dexterity is ... well on a 3-18 scale I'm a firm 11. On a good day.

I'm willing to chat to help folks, but on PC, I'm told that brief typed comments/suggestions are more likely to irritate than encourage. So lately I'm focusing on offering little bits about what "I" plan to - like early on I might say something like "I'll try to pull in all the peeps from the edge so you guys can melt 'em". Hopefully that will make any given DPS less likely to hare of after some annoying archer and lapse in AoE stuff.