Suligost wrote: »

Hi, I abandoned my sorc at Summerset as I considered him unplayable (for me). Returned to him since NB is not rly for me anymore. I must say he went throu some good changes. Stamsorc is closet thing to spellblade you can get. I have only 3 but:
1. Still no stam ult (or universal ult like heal whatever), every class has one except him. Im not demnding it to be OP, but it has to be for sake of class. Even one morph, like physical overlord but it works as a slash electric wave that hit target/s in 2 meter range (lights and heavy) so to maintain melee aspect and keep range for magicka (also to avoid bow abuse).
2. Hurricane is a bad skill thats all im gonna say and its ugly as it was: small dmg, and 10% of movement is rly nothing, people builded around it die on 2 hits without constant vigor - something to annoy NB, happily I found build that doesnt require to use it and is quite powerfull.
3. I might be greedy but some small minor buff as passive or something? Minor defile, protection, minor mending, some penetration like 1000? Just saying, I could want too much - ult is priority for me (lack of it is an insult).

Above that I find this class now very enjoyable and switched back to him for good (unless NB will receive absurd buff or stam aspect of sorc get nerf)

Suligost wrote: »

I must disagree on armanents, in my opinion this skill i way better then hurricane. Ofcorse everyone has own playstale, but if you now how to combo it... mmmmm (another dizzy, very good to keep pressure), also aint it just magnificent to throw magickal blades and consuming trap? Real spellblade mate

PS: I havent notice clanfear being stam. Checked it and slotting on both bars, dark deal is way better since it restore also stam... waiste of slots and magicka, trash skill.

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Other classes have stamina spammables but only nightblades and templars use them. Dk stone fist warden bird and necro skull are just trash when you compare it to dizzy swing so they also use dizzy.

• -15% cost after blocking. There is already 2 cost related passives, does sorc really need a 3rd?
• Health return on dark magic direct damage, stam sorc has none to use..
• Minor Prophecy is fine imo, but it would be nice if it was easier to proc so stam sorcs could help out magicka builds more, this could be fixed by offering a stam Frags for example. Look at how easy it is for NB to proc Minor Savagery (any crit), DK's to proc Minor Brutality (spammable), Templars to proc Minor Sorcery (burst tool) and Wardens to proc Minor Toughness (any group healing, hot, direct, over heal, anything. They also proc it for themselves based on the interaction from any Companion skill being desummoned.)
  
• Magicka return when a pet dies. So specific, even for pet sorcs this passive does barely anything and could be built into the pets. This is the like 5th cost/resource related passive and it's barely ever used. I'm not sure why it exists, but something meaningful could of been made to provide interesting interactions even if it was only for pets. Give a reason to slot more than 1? Maybe +6% damage done when using more than 1 pet. Something for dual pets since they have to sacrifice 4/12 bars for pets alone.

• 2 passives for Stam/Health/Mag Regen, why? NB has +15% for all 3 in 1 passive and does not require you to slot anything to get them. Necro can get +200 stam/mag regen. To get that much +200 recovery on sorc, you would need to invest an extra 500 stamina regen on your base regen, this is not considering the fact that the +200 for Necro gets multipliers on top making it closer to 300. Now think about the +10% mag regen, you would need +1500 mag regen beyond the base mag regen to get +200 from a 10% passive. On stam sorc, you're lucky to get 60-70 mag regen out of the passive. It's weak, but appears strong when it isn't.
• 2 passives for Ability Cost reduction and Ultimate Cost reduction, why? Templar has -6% cost to both in 1 passive. Yes these are stronger, but then look at the fact that it took 5 passives alone to cover resource management. It's simply unnecessary and shows why Templar can have much more room for strong healing/tanking passives.
• +5% physical/shock damage and +10%-0% damage done in 2 passives, why?
  • The elemental damage % is really miniscule and little to push Magicka or Stamina from any other damage types when choosing morphs like Focussed Aim vs Lethal Arrow or Absorb Stamina Enchantment vs Poison Enchantment, finally Shock Staff vs Fire Staff. I'd argue every class deserves the Warden Treatment here of getting up to 10% for their element, with DK getting +12% to aoe fire damage, Warden bumped up to 15% if Frost staves are never changed and Necro's are already awesome at +15% dot damage. Physical/Magicka damage is already the weakest of the elements with no status effects, this could be an excellent opportunity to make these basic damage types for Stam Sorc, Stam Templar, Mag NB and Mag Templar do something extra. Imagine Stam Sorc's were proficient with physical damage so they had a 4% chance on any physical damage done to cause a Bleed dot for 4 seconds.
  
  Now these passives aren't weak, thats not what I'm saying, but when you consider they take up 2 spaces each.. it starts to paint a clearer picture as to why Sorcs have no real Tanking or Healing passives. The passives are strong number advantages, but they provide little reason to change how you think about your actual build and how you play.
  
  Ability Options: Sorc is almost exclusively designed for Magicka based ability morphs, with Tanking/Healing/Stamina as an after thought. Sorcerer has the most Magicka based morphs of any class in the game with many morph options seen as entirely redundant for YEARS. 5 out of 6 magicka damage based ultimate morphs and I count 13 magicka damage based magicka morphs (not counting utility skills like daedric mines, rune cage, streak, surge, dark deal, etc). For stamina, I count 3 morphs and thats including Clanfear which is a huge stretch to consider. 3 while magicka has 18 (including ultimates, still not utility skills).
  
  There is a ton of room for improvement, not just for Stam Sorc, but for Sorc Tanks and Healers.
  
  I'll just quickly add because this post is too long that Stam Sorc would gain a lot by getting more access to some buffs/debuffs. It does not increase your dps in a group setting so they're redundant, but it helps give versatility to how you build in pvp. Wardens have every buff/debuff you can think of and I'm not asking for that, but Major Fracture, maybe Minor Fracture, Major Savagery, something would help take Stam Sorcs out of the pidgeon hole they're forced into for pvp settings.
  
  Also, for any stam sorc not aware, the +8% Max HP passive while a pet is active was ninja buffed in Update 24 to count any of the 1-4 daggers on Bound Armamnets as a pet. Having 0 daggers removes the 8% max hp. This does not apply to the magicka return passive when a pet dies so it's still not worth it.
  
  Finally, while I'm happy Bound Armaments is our new damage tool, it is awful in pvp while being passable in pve. I had much higher hopes as did others and unfortunately we got a copy and paste ability from Nightblades that is more annoying to use. Travel time + delay on each dagger. Doesn't get 2 stacks from a heavy attack, the passive buffs are not applicable from the 40s buff itself, requiring you to double bar it. Just makes me sad for what could of been, but I hope ZOS isn't done and they see that it could be better.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I think hurricane is a great ability. It's a nice set of bonuses on an armor buff.

Stamsorc does lack some things, like an ult, spammable, buffs/debuffs ect but what we do have is really good, I think the main issue is that we lack damage/burst. We need a delayed burst skill or some other form of damage.

Bound armaments could have been that but people keep saying it's good, when in reality it sucks. The passives are nice, but the activated skill is terrible.

MincVinyl wrote: »

From a ~5 year PvP based Stamsorc main TLDR at bottom

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It is true that stamsorc has never really had anything class wise, but that doesn't mean it does not have a class identity. Simply put giving stamsorc a stam version of frags would be like giving stamdk stamwhip. It is not the answer zos wants, and for some reason zos does not want some classes to have a mag and stam morph of spammables like the ones warden and necro were widely given.

The path that should be suggested is to stick to what defines a stamsorc when looking for "class identity" which even zos does not quite understand. If I were to describe how stamsorc plays after 5 years in pvp I would say move fast and hit hard. For some reason zos thought that adding class identity meant that stamsorcs want a light attack proc gimmick. If you look at what happened to nightblade in general the downfall was being pigeon holed to rely on the spectral bow light attack gimmick. If I were to make a tier list for pvp, I would most likely have the nightblades and stamsorc fighting for the bottom. What is worse, from recent patchnotes we already see that zos wants to remove something off of BA because it has too much apparently. >>their idea was to remove the bonus to light attack damage...on an ability that they now force you to light attack to get the proc. So SS would then not have the overall damage, and have some *** proc that isnt used. Atleast when nightblade lost its damage buff on spectral bow the proc still hits harder than most ults.

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ideas for what direction to take, keep in mind Move Fast Hit Hard

• -buff that ramps up damage based on movement speed (snares would negatively impact this, keeping buffs up would improve this). Hurricane ideally would be swapped from a simple 10% movement speed to a 5% base at cast +1% per additional second. Obviously a value of damage would have to be balanced, whether it is weapon damage or %damage. This would be your defining class time-able damage. Much like magsorcs have to defend and then build up their timed damage, stamsorc would defend and then have to endure time to get damage. Another mechanic that could spice up hurricane would be to have it grant a %damage mit that decreases at the same rate that the movement speed increases. This causes choices to be made in numerous situations to continue pressing damage or lose your damage buffs and reset completely. Warden already has minor prot for free from their armor buff.
• Replace the "class identity" defining BA with some form of snare immunity. One thought for this would be keep the build up dagger system, but instead each dagger/stack automatically negates a snare/root/softcc. This would reward the player who is fighting to have fluid mobility so long as they are able to keep LA weaving. Wardens have something similar with the netch purge, but that is just a free given for them with little counterplay. Here a sorc running away or low on resources will not have any stacks and will be snared/rooted down further loosing damage and healing.

A combination of these ideas is what would give stamsorc back its reason for people to play it, instead of just being a less useful stamwarden that moves 10% quicker. Also this way magsorc does not need to be touched for stamsorc to be unique. Even if you do not agree with these ideas, think of your own creative solution instead of crying to make some ability stam based.

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Current Stamsorc Rundown

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Ultimates

• Atro has 2 morphs that are nearly identical a balanced combination between the two could be added. Even if an air atronach version is added, I do not see myself dropping dawnbreaker or berserkers/onslaught for it. A pet that does not move just does not fit into the playstyle of stamsorc. >>insert your ideas<<
• Overload again has two very similar morphs that hardly work. Don't get me wrong, you can use them, but I am not willing to risk my account being banned, because zos deems a year old bug to suddenly be an exploit, just to go off meta. What zos has done wrong with this ability is to try to keep it as its own weapon. For those who do not know OL used to have a third bar, so when you pressed ult you would do a sort of weapon swap animation and go to a third bar. This animation still happens and feels as clunky as possible, imagine if weapon swapping was a cast timed event. What should be done is just make overload a toggle ult that just has a simple shock animation on your weapon of choice. Then use the less clunky light and heavy attacks that weapons have. Maybe have it boost your range on light/heavy/weapon abilities. Nothing really fancy needs to happen here. If it goes well magsorcs who use overload would not be able to tell the difference, except less clunky animations that bug you out.
• Negate again has two nearly identical morphs, both of which are only used in coordinated group play. I'm certain the morphs could be combined in some way into one and then a new morph could be made. Just like with atro it is hard to think of something that would synergize with high mobility. Maybe make it a defensive ult like permafrost that purges allies or something of that sort. >>insert your ideas<<

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Passives

• Rebate- useless
• Powerstone- 100% useful
• Daedric protection- 50% useful, SS only has one out of 12 possible morphs that can be slotted which will be useful
• Expert summoner- 50% useful, again pigeon holes SS into using BA
• Unholy Knowledge- 100% useful
• Blood Magic- useless
• Persistence- useless
• exploitation- useless (kind of useful for groups, but recently became useless for solo)
• Capacitor- 50% useful, gives a slight boost to off stat sustain but not by much
• Energized- 100% useful
• Amplitude- 50% useful, this passive really looses value depending on how strong single burst abilites are(ex.dizzy/2h ult)
• expert mage-50% useful, usually your damage bar is full of weapon abilities anyways, and on your backbar nothing will use that wd typically (ex.crit surge/DD/utilities)

so stamsorc realistically has somewhere between 3-8 passives that are used. Where magsorc has 7-12, with plenty more choices to grab those pet passives. I would be perfectly fine if zos wanted to take the lazy route and just add in stamsorc portions to some of the useless passives, like give minor savagery to exploitation. I mean just take a look in the dark magic tree, only daedric mines can pull off the blood magic cooldown. There is no way to realistically capitalize on that especially as a stamsorc.

I dont really bother to touch on active abilities, for the reason that stamsorc does not need more abilities to slot. The limiting factor on a build always comes down to having to slot 2 or 3 barely useful abilities for the sole purpose of grabbing passives which really just pigeon holes builds at the end of the day.

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TLDR:

• stam morphs do not mean class identity, if i wanted to use frags i would play a magsorc.
• BA is a joke of an idea for "class identity" instead of being a sorc they want me to be a left click warrior
• Stamsorc has always been defined as a hard hitting mobile class, zos should play into that instead of ^^
• Ults need to just be updated, mag sorc can easily avoid being touched at the benefit of giving stamsorc literally anything
• Passives should be looked into, there are so little ways to grab them that a build really needs to stretch off meta to use them.