My thoughts about Stamsorc

Suligost · April 2020

Hi, I abandoned my sorc at Summerset as I considered him unplayable (for me). Returned to him since NB is not rly for me anymore. I must say he went throu some good changes. Stamsorc is closet thing to spellblade you can get. I have only 3 but:
1. Still no stam ult (or universal ult like heal whatever), every class has one except him. Im not demnding it to be OP, but it has to be for sake of class. Even one morph, like physical overlord but it works as a slash electric wave that hit target/s in 2 meter range (lights and heavy) so to maintain melee aspect and keep range for magicka (also to avoid bow abuse).
2. Hurricane is a bad skill thats all im gonna say and its ugly as it was: small dmg, and 10% of movement is rly nothing, people builded around it die on 2 hits without constant vigor - something to annoy NB, happily I found build that doesnt require to use it and is quite powerfull (im focused on PvP).
3. I might be greedy but some small minor buff as passive or something? Minor defile, protection, minor mending, some penetration like 1000? Just saying, I could want too much - ult is priority for me (lack of it is an insult).

Above that I find this class now very enjoyable and switched back to him for good (unless NB will receive absurd buff or stam aspect of sorc get nerf)

GRXRG · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

Hi, I abandoned my sorc at Summerset as I considered him unplayable (for me). Returned to him since NB is not rly for me anymore. I must say he went throu some good changes. Stamsorc is closet thing to spellblade you can get. I have only 3 but:
1. Still no stam ult (or universal ult like heal whatever), every class has one except him. Im not demnding it to be OP, but it has to be for sake of class. Even one morph, like physical overlord but it works as a slash electric wave that hit target/s in 2 meter range (lights and heavy) so to maintain melee aspect and keep range for magicka (also to avoid bow abuse).
2. Hurricane is a bad skill thats all im gonna say and its ugly as it was: small dmg, and 10% of movement is rly nothing, people builded around it die on 2 hits without constant vigor - something to annoy NB, happily I found build that doesnt require to use it and is quite powerfull.
3. I might be greedy but some small minor buff as passive or something? Minor defile, protection, minor mending, some penetration like 1000? Just saying, I could want too much - ult is priority for me (lack of it is an insult).

Above that I find this class now very enjoyable and switched back to him for good (unless NB will receive absurd buff or stam aspect of sorc get nerf)

Stamsorc was my second character ever made, after starting the game with a magplar, to learn game mechanics.

I consider it my main now, and yeah i agree with your points and wanna add few as well.

Stamsorc is the only class in the game which have close to zero benefits from class passives, everything just benefits magicka sorcerer, while classes like stamcro or stamden have solid passives taht makes them really strong.

It's lacks a stamina morph burst skill, Armaments is only good in pve and trash in pvp, we need our own blastbone/sub assault, maybe a Curse stamina morph.

The armor buff who knows why it's one of the shortest of all classes.

The only great thing about stamsorc and the reason i like it, it's the speedy fast playstyle and combined with orc or wood elf synergies really well making you a speedy mage assassin.

Like almost every other stamina class we need a dang stamina spammable, i am tired of dizzy or dw spammable.

making clanfear physical was a ncie addition, same as bound armaments, but it's still too far for the class to be adjusted and competitive with the other stamina classes.

Suligost · April 2020

I must disagree on armanents, in my opinion this skill i way better then hurricane. Ofcorse everyone has own playstale, but if you now how to combo it... mmmmm (another dizzy, very good to keep pressure), also aint it just magnificent to throw magickal blades and consuming trap? Real spellblade mate

PS: I havent notice clanfear being stam. Checked it and slotting on both bars, dark deal is way better since it restore also stam... waiste of slots and magicka, trash skill.

GRXRG · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

I must disagree on armanents, in my opinion this skill i way better then hurricane. Ofcorse everyone has own playstale, but if you now how to combo it... mmmmm (another dizzy, very good to keep pressure), also aint it just magnificent to throw magickal blades and consuming trap? Real spellblade mate

PS: I havent notice clanfear being stam. Checked it and slotting on both bars, dark deal is way better since it restore also stam... waiste of slots and magicka, trash skill.

Clanfear now do physical damage, but still use magicka, but it's a pretty strong self heal.

Bound armaments doesn't work against good players, and being a projectile it misses half the times.

Suligost · April 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

Suligost wrote: »

I must disagree on armanents, in my opinion this skill i way better then hurricane. Ofcorse everyone has own playstale, but if you now how to combo it... mmmmm (another dizzy, very good to keep pressure), also aint it just magnificent to throw magickal blades and consuming trap? Real spellblade mate

PS: I havent notice clanfear being stam. Checked it and slotting on both bars, dark deal is way better since it restore also stam... waiste of slots and magicka, trash skill.

Clanfear now do physical damage, but still use magicka, but it's a pretty strong self heal.

Bound armaments doesn't work against good players, and being a projectile it misses half the times.

Its not powerfull, double cost of dark deal and at the end 2 dark deals will give you more. Thats excatly the point, not only you can properly combo it (randomly sending it wont give anything) but also bite him to waiste dodge even 2 and smack him with dizzy and stun. Ofcorse it could be more smooth (it would be god-like skill if undodgeable) etc but I prefer this over NB grim focus (try go with that crap).

JinMori · April 2020

The first thing they should do is to rectify passives on all classes to make them more "inclusive".

Passives should provide meaningful bonuses for all types of gameplay, wtf do i do with rebate??

Greek_Hellspawn · April 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

Suligost wrote: »

Hi, I abandoned my sorc at Summerset as I considered him unplayable (for me). Returned to him since NB is not rly for me anymore. I must say he went throu some good changes. Stamsorc is closet thing to spellblade you can get. I have only 3 but:
1. Still no stam ult (or universal ult like heal whatever), every class has one except him. Im not demnding it to be OP, but it has to be for sake of class. Even one morph, like physical overlord but it works as a slash electric wave that hit target/s in 2 meter range (lights and heavy) so to maintain melee aspect and keep range for magicka (also to avoid bow abuse).
2. Hurricane is a bad skill thats all im gonna say and its ugly as it was: small dmg, and 10% of movement is rly nothing, people builded around it die on 2 hits without constant vigor - something to annoy NB, happily I found build that doesnt require to use it and is quite powerfull.
3. I might be greedy but some small minor buff as passive or something? Minor defile, protection, minor mending, some penetration like 1000? Just saying, I could want too much - ult is priority for me (lack of it is an insult).

Above that I find this class now very enjoyable and switched back to him for good (unless NB will receive absurd buff or stam aspect of sorc get nerf)

Stamsorc was my second character ever made, after starting the game with a magplar, to learn game mechanics.

I consider it my main now, and yeah i agree with your points and wanna add few as well.

Stamsorc is the only class in the game which have close to zero benefits from class passives, everything just benefits magicka sorcerer, while classes like stamcro or stamden have solid passives taht makes them really strong.

It's lacks a stamina morph burst skill, Armaments is only good in pve and trash in pvp, we need our own blastbone/sub assault, maybe a Curse stamina morph.

The armor buff who knows why it's one of the shortest of all classes.

The only great thing about stamsorc and the reason i like it, it's the speedy fast playstyle and combined with orc or wood elf synergies really well making you a speedy mage assassin.

Like almost every other stamina class we need a dang stamina spammable, i am tired of dizzy or dw spammable.

making clanfear physical was a ncie addition, same as bound armaments, but it's still too far for the class to be adjusted and competitive with the other stamina classes.

Other classes have stamina spammables but only nightblades and templars use them. Dk stone fist warden bird and necro skull are just trash when you compare it to dizzy swing so they also use dizzy.

GRXRG · April 2020

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Other classes have stamina spammables but only nightblades and templars use them. Dk stone fist warden bird and necro skull are just trash when you compare it to dizzy swing so they also use dizzy.

Yeah, but stamsorc soesn't have one at all xD Like anything.
Every single morph is for magicka sorcerer, frag, curse, fury, and the passive skills as well.

It's right now the class with least identity of all classes.

At least other classes do have a stamina morph, it's not bis and dizzy is better, but at least is semi-viable or usable.

I saw stamina wardens use bird plus the dot stamina morph in dw builds with spin2win and it's stronger that 2h with dizzy and exe so... Stamsorc has bound armaments, which needs to be builded and miss half the times, stamcro and stamden just pop blastbone and sub assault and they are good to go with a hard hitting aoe burst skill which apply crazy debuffs as well.
stamplar has potl, the easiest delayed burst skill in the game...

It's really sad and that's all.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2020

Very much agree with you.

I feel as though the developers simply forgot that the class exists when they were coming up with the skill morphs and passives, the fact that stamSorcs can't benefit from like 75% of their class kit is simply ridiculous.

And then, of course, they gave away our one interesting ultimate idea to the Aegis Caller set for everyone to use because stamSorc can't have nice things.

Very much agree with Hurricane as well. People often cite it as the marquee skill of the class but... the damage is nonexistent (especially in PvP) and Minor Expedition does not make you move appreciably faster than other classes. And you have to cast it nearly twice as often as most other Armor-providing abilities. I gather that at one point maybe it was good, but that time is not now.

And indeed, stamSorcs have access to basically zero named buffs outside of Minor Expedition that are actually useful to the class (Minor Prophecy certainly doesn't count...).

It would be extremely straightforward to improve the class and give it some actual unique flavor but the devs would seemingly prefer to scheme up exotic new Light Attack change scenarios than create a new morph and a passive or two for the class.

Crixus8000 · April 2020

I think hurricane is a great ability. It's a nice set of bonuses on an armor buff.

Stamsorc does lack some things, like an ult, spammable, buffs/debuffs ect but what we do have is really good, I think the main issue is that we lack damage/burst. We need a delayed burst skill or some other form of damage.

Bound armaments could have been that but people keep saying it's good, when in reality it sucks. The passives are nice, but the activated skill is terrible.

Suligost · April 2020

I think his passives are fine, magblade can say the same about hemorrhage but the problem is... hemorrhage also provides critical dmg so its still usefull for magicka afterall (but definietly I dont want critical dmg for magicka sorc).

2 passives need changing (most useless):
* Rebate - useless,
* Blood magic - lock on skills that are usefull once more only for magicka, so stam doesnt have access to it.
New minor buff could replace on of these 2. Im not mentioning expert summoner as 1 exlcusive passive for pets is acceptable for me. Still it would be better to have 5% for any skill equipped from skill line rather 8% but only with summon active.

As I mentioned, overload stam morph for melee and hurriance rework as its bad (for me and most of people as it seems)... and ugly! Imagine having armor skill that actives upon dodging with dope buff. Very unique as there is no such thing (and no horrible neon bulb effect). It could reward you further for succesfull dodge (so something for mastering with high reward) - everybody who dont know difference can check how works nocturnal's favor set, requires perfect timing.
Example: active buff to receive armor + doding recovers 1500 health and 500 stamina, upon succesfull one 2000 health/700 stamina + minor maim for few seconds (effect has cooldown). Ofcorse thats a first thing that came into my mind, values are random (such effect could replace one of useless passives as well) but would give stamsorc feeling of agile warrior with spells

MashmalloMan · April 2020

I've mained stam sorc for close to 5 years after switching from console to pc. Although I have many alts, I never find any of them as enjoyable as stam sorc despite the clear lack of class identity imo. This comes down to the visual appeal I have for lightning/wind, the quick and fast pased playstyle along with the interaction of a few key abilities. Dark Deal, Crit Surge, Hurricane, Streak, etc. These abilities are all fantastic in design and makes the class for me, so it has a ton of possitives, but many negatives too.

Passives: I think saying the passives are bad is wrong/right in different ways. The damage passives are excellent even if a little boring... (I still miss implossion). They apply to many different abilities which helps since they have next to no damage abilities to use within the class, making them one of the strongest classes for anyone interesting in weapon abilities or werewolf perhaps.

The real problem with the passives is not the damage side of the equation, but the tanking/healing/cc side. Many of the passives are extremely minor in function where other classes can at least get some use out of them in different ways.

-15% cost after blocking. There is already 2 cost related passives, does sorc really need a 3rd?
Health return on dark magic direct damage, stam sorc has none to use..
Minor Prophecy is fine imo, but it would be nice if it was easier to proc so stam sorcs could help out magicka builds more, this could be fixed by offering a stam Frags for example. Look at how easy it is for NB to proc Minor Savagery (any crit), DK's to proc Minor Brutality (spammable), Templars to proc Minor Sorcery (burst tool) and Wardens to proc Minor Toughness (any group healing, hot, direct, over heal, anything. They also proc it for themselves based on the interaction from any Companion skill being desummoned.)
Magicka return when a pet dies. So specific, even for pet sorcs this passive does barely anything and could be built into the pets. This is the like 5th cost/resource related passive and it's barely ever used. I'm not sure why it exists, but something meaningful could of been made to provide interesting interactions even if it was only for pets. Give a reason to slot more than 1? Maybe +6% damage done when using more than 1 pet. Something for dual pets since they have to sacrifice 4/12 bars for pets alone.

Those are the obvious ones, but then you start to think about these:

2 passives for Stam/Health/Mag Regen, why? NB has +15% for all 3 in 1 passive and does not require you to slot anything to get them. Necro can get +200 stam/mag regen. To get that much +200 recovery on sorc, you would need to invest an extra 500 stamina regen on your base regen, this is not considering the fact that the +200 for Necro gets multipliers on top making it closer to 300. Now think about the +10% mag regen, you would need +1500 mag regen beyond the base mag regen to get +200 from a 10% passive. On stam sorc, you're lucky to get 60-70 mag regen out of the passive. It's weak, but appears strong when it isn't.
2 passives for Ability Cost reduction and Ultimate Cost reduction, why? Templar has -6% cost to both in 1 passive. Yes these are stronger, but then look at the fact that it took 5 passives alone to cover resource management. It's simply unnecessary and shows why Templar can have much more room for strong healing/tanking passives.
+5% physical/shock damage and +10%-0% damage done in 2 passives, why?
- The elemental damage % is really miniscule and little to push Magicka or Stamina from any other damage types when choosing morphs like Focussed Aim vs Lethal Arrow or Absorb Stamina Enchantment vs Poison Enchantment, finally Shock Staff vs Fire Staff. I'd argue every class deserves the Warden Treatment here of getting up to 10% for their element, with DK getting +12% to aoe fire damage, Warden bumped up to 15% if Frost staves are never changed and Necro's are already awesome at +15% dot damage. Physical/Magicka damage is already the weakest of the elements with no status effects, this could be an excellent opportunity to make these basic damage types for Stam Sorc, Stam Templar, Mag NB and Mag Templar do something extra. Imagine Stam Sorc's were proficient with physical damage so they had a 4% chance on any physical damage done to cause a Bleed dot for 4 seconds.
Now these passives aren't weak, thats not what I'm saying, but when you consider they take up 2 spaces each.. it starts to paint a clearer picture as to why Sorcs have no real Tanking or Healing passives. The passives are strong number advantages, but they provide little reason to change how you think about your actual build and how you play.

Ability Options: Sorc is almost exclusively designed for Magicka based ability morphs, with Tanking/Healing/Stamina as an after thought. Sorcerer has the most Magicka based morphs of any class in the game with many morph options seen as entirely redundant for YEARS. 5 out of 6 magicka damage based ultimate morphs and I count 13 magicka damage based magicka morphs (not counting utility skills like daedric mines, rune cage, streak, surge, dark deal, etc). For stamina, I count 3 morphs and thats including Clanfear which is a huge stretch to consider. 3 while magicka has 18 (including ultimates, still not utility skills).

There is a ton of room for improvement, not just for Stam Sorc, but for Sorc Tanks and Healers.

I'll just quickly add because this post is too long that Stam Sorc would gain a lot by getting more access to some buffs/debuffs. It does not increase your dps in a group setting so they're redundant, but it helps give versatility to how you build in pvp. Wardens have every buff/debuff you can think of and I'm not asking for that, but Major Fracture, maybe Minor Fracture, Major Savagery, something would help take Stam Sorcs out of the pidgeon hole they're forced into for pvp settings.

Also, for any stam sorc not aware, the +8% Max HP passive while a pet is active was ninja buffed in Update 24 to count any of the 1-4 daggers on Bound Armamnets as a pet. Having 0 daggers removes the 8% max hp. This does not apply to the magicka return passive when a pet dies so it's still not worth it.

Finally, while I'm happy Bound Armaments is our new damage tool, it is awful in pvp while being passable in pve. I had much higher hopes as did others and unfortunately we got a copy and paste ability from Nightblades that is more annoying to use. Travel time + delay on each dagger. Doesn't get 2 stacks from a heavy attack, the passive buffs are not applicable from the 40s buff itself, requiring you to double bar it. Just makes me sad for what could of been, but I hope ZOS isn't done and they see that it could be better.

MashmalloMan · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I think hurricane is a great ability. It's a nice set of bonuses on an armor buff.

Stamsorc does lack some things, like an ult, spammable, buffs/debuffs ect but what we do have is really good, I think the main issue is that we lack damage/burst. We need a delayed burst skill or some other form of damage.

Bound armaments could have been that but people keep saying it's good, when in reality it sucks. The passives are nice, but the activated skill is terrible.

Same sentiments here.

They need to do 4-5 things imo:

Condense some of the passives to make room for healing/tanking passives.
Make physical/shock damage mean something to Sorcs. Add a special effect like a % chance to cause a bleed on all physical damage or a % chance to arc lightning to nearby targets for a small amount of damage. Anything that makes them stand out (this should apply to all classes).
Condense some of the ability morphs to make room for 1-2 stamina damage based abilities. I don't think a spammable is 100% the answer, but there is room for a dot, direct dmg aoe, execute, etc. New damage skills that offer the buffs/debuffs that Sorc doesn't have access to. Anything would help build diversity.
Fix Bound Armaments to be an actual strong contender for delayed burst in the same veign as Warden's Shalks, Templar's PotL, Necro's BB, MagSorc Curse/Frags and even NB's Bow proc. Make the 8% Max Stamina apply when the buff is active, rather than for being slotted allowing Stam Sorc's to gain some build flexibility.
Give stam sorc 1-2 ultimates. Perhaps make a Tanking ultimate out of Charged Atronach and a Stamina DD ultimate out of Overload.

Luckylancer · April 2020

I cant say anything abour pve identity but people realy underestimate how diffrent streak and dark deal are. They make a huge diffrence in how stamsorc play compared to other classes. Stamsorc is unique in PvP.

Aznox · April 2020

I love my StamSorc.

Suligost · April 2020

Okay like, thread is just repeating fest, if ZOS read it for me its for closing now.

PS: In conclusion not bad class that need a bit of polishing.

Alucardo · April 2020

Stam Sorc is the product of a magicka based class that was ungracefully stitched together to support stamina. Despite that. with access to more class passives and some basic utility additions, it could be a very flexible and enjoyable class.

GRXRG · April 2020

In all honesty seems they created magicka sorcerer first and made very single magicka and passives for him and then they realized: Oh snap... We forgot about stamina xD
Let's add few random stamina morphs and yeah, there are weapon skills to use anyway, we cannot delete double frag morph, double fury morph, double curse morph, double pet morph.

ku5h · April 2020

Aznox wrote: »

I love my StamSorc.

Same here. Actually most fun stam class to play for me.
Don't know why ppl don't like Hurricane, I love it.
As an armor buff, you also get minor expedition which is not that common buff. AoE dot that that synergies great with Crit Surge and get's exponentially better the more ppl attack you. Finally you get perma detection circle to pull NB's out of stealth.
As for armor buffs, my favorite.

ku5h · April 2020

#bringbackimplosion

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

In all honesty seems they created magicka sorcerer first and made very single magicka and passives for him and then they realized: Oh snap... We forgot about stamina xD
Let's add few random stamina morphs and yeah, there are weapon skills to use anyway, we cannot delete double frag morph, double fury morph, double curse morph, double pet morph.

To put this into perspective a bit, (although I wasn't around at the time but as far as I read) there was no strict stam/mag divide in the past due to stat caps. So everyone was some kind of hybrid with magicka class skills and stamina weapon skills to complement.

But that's long changed and in the meantime, especially with the addition of two fully fleshed out classes, they should have brought (stam) sorcs class kit up to speed.

Faulgor · April 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I think hurricane is a great ability. It's a nice set of bonuses on an armor buff.

Stamsorc does lack some things, like an ult, spammable, buffs/debuffs ect but what we do have is really good, I think the main issue is that we lack damage/burst. We need a delayed burst skill or some other form of damage.

Bound armaments could have been that but people keep saying it's good, when in reality it sucks. The passives are nice, but the activated skill is terrible.

I maintain that Bound Armaments should work like Crystal Fragments. Whether using any stamina ability is the proc condition or something more restrictive is not important, but it would improve class identity immensely and give us delayed burst like our magicka counterpart has since day 1.

TBois · April 2020

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

In all honesty seems they created magicka sorcerer first and made very single magicka and passives for him and then they realized: Oh snap... We forgot about stamina xD
Let's add few random stamina morphs and yeah, there are weapon skills to use anyway, we cannot delete double frag morph, double fury morph, double curse morph, double pet morph.

To put this into perspective a bit, (although I wasn't around at the time but as far as I read) there was no strict stam/mag divide in the past due to stat caps. So everyone was some kind of hybrid with magicka class skills and stamina weapon skills to complement.

But that's long changed and in the meantime, especially with the addition of two fully fleshed out classes, they should have brought (stam) sorcs class kit up to speed.

This is correct. Full fledged stamina classes were an after thought for all of the four original classes. All class skills were magicka based. The four stamina weapon skill lines were stamina based skills. We also had soft caps on most stats so it was easier or more advantageous to build more hybrid like. At least in pvp most stam specs ran resto back bar initially until we got vigor because stam lacked healing. So that is the reason why Warden and Necromancer have much more well rounded and thought out stam specs.

MincVinyl · April 2020

From a ~5 year PvP based Stamsorc main TLDR at bottom

It is true that stamsorc has never really had anything class wise, but that doesn't mean it does not have a class identity. Simply put giving stamsorc a stam version of frags would be like giving stamdk stamwhip. It is not the answer zos wants, and for some reason zos does not want some classes to have a mag and stam morph of spammables like the ones warden and necro were widely given.

The path that should be suggested is to stick to what defines a stamsorc when looking for "class identity" which even zos does not quite understand. If I were to describe how stamsorc plays after 5 years in pvp I would say move fast and hit hard. For some reason zos thought that adding class identity meant that stamsorcs want a light attack proc gimmick. If you look at what happened to nightblade in general the downfall was being pigeon holed to rely on the spectral bow light attack gimmick. If I were to make a tier list for pvp, I would most likely have the nightblades and stamsorc fighting for the bottom. What is worse, from recent patchnotes we already see that zos wants to remove something off of BA because it has too much apparently. >>their idea was to remove the bonus to light attack damage...on an ability that they now force you to light attack to get the proc. So SS would then not have the overall damage, and have some *** proc that isnt used. Atleast when nightblade lost its damage buff on spectral bow the proc still hits harder than most ults.

ideas for what direction to take, keep in mind Move Fast Hit Hard

-buff that ramps up damage based on movement speed (snares would negatively impact this, keeping buffs up would improve this). Hurricane ideally would be swapped from a simple 10% movement speed to a 5% base at cast +1% per additional second. Obviously a value of damage would have to be balanced, whether it is weapon damage or %damage. This would be your defining class time-able damage. Much like magsorcs have to defend and then build up their timed damage, stamsorc would defend and then have to endure time to get damage. Another mechanic that could spice up hurricane would be to have it grant a %damage mit that decreases at the same rate that the movement speed increases. This causes choices to be made in numerous situations to continue pressing damage or lose your damage buffs and reset completely. Warden already has minor prot for free from their armor buff.
Replace the "class identity" defining BA with some form of snare immunity. One thought for this would be keep the build up dagger system, but instead each dagger/stack automatically negates a snare/root/softcc. This would reward the player who is fighting to have fluid mobility so long as they are able to keep LA weaving. Wardens have something similar with the netch purge, but that is just a free given for them with little counterplay. Here a sorc running away or low on resources will not have any stacks and will be snared/rooted down further loosing damage and healing.

A combination of these ideas is what would give stamsorc back its reason for people to play it, instead of just being a less useful stamwarden that moves 10% quicker. Also this way magsorc does not need to be touched for stamsorc to be unique. Even if you do not agree with these ideas, think of your own creative solution instead of crying to make some ability stam based.

Current Stamsorc Rundown

Ultimates

Atro has 2 morphs that are nearly identical a balanced combination between the two could be added. Even if an air atronach version is added, I do not see myself dropping dawnbreaker or berserkers/onslaught for it. A pet that does not move just does not fit into the playstyle of stamsorc. >>insert your ideas<<
Overload again has two very similar morphs that hardly work. Don't get me wrong, you can use them, but I am not willing to risk my account being banned, because zos deems a year old bug to suddenly be an exploit, just to go off meta. What zos has done wrong with this ability is to try to keep it as its own weapon. For those who do not know OL used to have a third bar, so when you pressed ult you would do a sort of weapon swap animation and go to a third bar. This animation still happens and feels as clunky as possible, imagine if weapon swapping was a cast timed event. What should be done is just make overload a toggle ult that just has a simple shock animation on your weapon of choice. Then use the less clunky light and heavy attacks that weapons have. Maybe have it boost your range on light/heavy/weapon abilities. Nothing really fancy needs to happen here. If it goes well magsorcs who use overload would not be able to tell the difference, except less clunky animations that bug you out.
Negate again has two nearly identical morphs, both of which are only used in coordinated group play. I'm certain the morphs could be combined in some way into one and then a new morph could be made. Just like with atro it is hard to think of something that would synergize with high mobility. Maybe make it a defensive ult like permafrost that purges allies or something of that sort. >>insert your ideas<<

Passives

Rebate- useless
Powerstone- 100% useful
Daedric protection- 50% useful, SS only has one out of 12 possible morphs that can be slotted which will be useful
Expert summoner- 50% useful, again pigeon holes SS into using BA
Unholy Knowledge- 100% useful
Blood Magic- useless
Persistence- useless
exploitation- useless (kind of useful for groups, but recently became useless for solo)
Capacitor- 50% useful, gives a slight boost to off stat sustain but not by much
Energized- 100% useful
Amplitude- 50% useful, this passive really looses value depending on how strong single burst abilites are(ex.dizzy/2h ult)
expert mage-50% useful, usually your damage bar is full of weapon abilities anyways, and on your backbar nothing will use that wd typically (ex.crit surge/DD/utilities)

so stamsorc realistically has somewhere between 3-8 passives that are used. Where magsorc has 7-12, with plenty more choices to grab those pet passives. I would be perfectly fine if zos wanted to take the lazy route and just add in stamsorc portions to some of the useless passives, like give minor savagery to exploitation. I mean just take a look in the dark magic tree, only daedric mines can pull off the blood magic cooldown. There is no way to realistically capitalize on that especially as a stamsorc.

I dont really bother to touch on active abilities, for the reason that stamsorc does not need more abilities to slot. The limiting factor on a build always comes down to having to slot 2 or 3 barely useful abilities for the sole purpose of grabbing passives which really just pigeon holes builds at the end of the day.

TLDR:

stam morphs do not mean class identity, if i wanted to use frags i would play a magsorc.
BA is a joke of an idea for "class identity" instead of being a sorc they want me to be a left click warrior
Stamsorc has always been defined as a hard hitting mobile class, zos should play into that instead of ^^
Ults need to just be updated, mag sorc can easily avoid being touched at the benefit of giving stamsorc literally anything
Passives should be looked into, there are so little ways to grab them that a build really needs to stretch off meta to use them.

Suligost · April 2020

Ehhhhhhh, so very long post about how I want my glasscannon with vigor have even more dmg... Can we finnaly stop supporting this mindless kind of gameplay (besides warden is better at it with falcon's switness) as it is majority of players (stacking turd dmg as vigor scales of it). Dodges, utility, staying in the fight for once please...

daemonor · April 2020

MincVinyl wrote: »

From a ~5 year PvP based Stamsorc main TLDR at bottom
It is true that stamsorc has never really had anything class wise, but that doesn't mean it does not have a class identity. Simply put giving stamsorc a stam version of frags would be like giving stamdk stamwhip. It is not the answer zos wants, and for some reason zos does not want some classes to have a mag and stam morph of spammables like the ones warden and necro were widely given.

The path that should be suggested is to stick to what defines a stamsorc when looking for "class identity" which even zos does not quite understand. If I were to describe how stamsorc plays after 5 years in pvp I would say move fast and hit hard. For some reason zos thought that adding class identity meant that stamsorcs want a light attack proc gimmick. If you look at what happened to nightblade in general the downfall was being pigeon holed to rely on the spectral bow light attack gimmick. If I were to make a tier list for pvp, I would most likely have the nightblades and stamsorc fighting for the bottom. What is worse, from recent patchnotes we already see that zos wants to remove something off of BA because it has too much apparently. >>their idea was to remove the bonus to light attack damage...on an ability that they now force you to light attack to get the proc. So SS would then not have the overall damage, and have some *** proc that isnt used. Atleast when nightblade lost its damage buff on spectral bow the proc still hits harder than most ults.
ideas for what direction to take, keep in mind Move Fast Hit Hard
-buff that ramps up damage based on movement speed (snares would negatively impact this, keeping buffs up would improve this). Hurricane ideally would be swapped from a simple 10% movement speed to a 5% base at cast +1% per additional second. Obviously a value of damage would have to be balanced, whether it is weapon damage or %damage. This would be your defining class time-able damage. Much like magsorcs have to defend and then build up their timed damage, stamsorc would defend and then have to endure time to get damage. Another mechanic that could spice up hurricane would be to have it grant a %damage mit that decreases at the same rate that the movement speed increases. This causes choices to be made in numerous situations to continue pressing damage or lose your damage buffs and reset completely. Warden already has minor prot for free from their armor buff.

Replace the "class identity" defining BA with some form of snare immunity. One thought for this would be keep the build up dagger system, but instead each dagger/stack automatically negates a snare/root/softcc. This would reward the player who is fighting to have fluid mobility so long as they are able to keep LA weaving. Wardens have something similar with the netch purge, but that is just a free given for them with little counterplay. Here a sorc running away or low on resources will not have any stacks and will be snared/rooted down further loosing damage and healing.

A combination of these ideas is what would give stamsorc back its reason for people to play it, instead of just being a less useful stamwarden that moves 10% quicker. Also this way magsorc does not need to be touched for stamsorc to be unique. Even if you do not agree with these ideas, think of your own creative solution instead of crying to make some ability stam based.
Current Stamsorc Rundown
Ultimates
Atro has 2 morphs that are nearly identical a balanced combination between the two could be added. Even if an air atronach version is added, I do not see myself dropping dawnbreaker or berserkers/onslaught for it. A pet that does not move just does not fit into the playstyle of stamsorc. >>insert your ideas<<

Overload again has two very similar morphs that hardly work. Don't get me wrong, you can use them, but I am not willing to risk my account being banned, because zos deems a year old bug to suddenly be an exploit, just to go off meta. What zos has done wrong with this ability is to try to keep it as its own weapon. For those who do not know OL used to have a third bar, so when you pressed ult you would do a sort of weapon swap animation and go to a third bar. This animation still happens and feels as clunky as possible, imagine if weapon swapping was a cast timed event. What should be done is just make overload a toggle ult that just has a simple shock animation on your weapon of choice. Then use the less clunky light and heavy attacks that weapons have. Maybe have it boost your range on light/heavy/weapon abilities. Nothing really fancy needs to happen here. If it goes well magsorcs who use overload would not be able to tell the difference, except less clunky animations that bug you out.

Negate again has two nearly identical morphs, both of which are only used in coordinated group play. I'm certain the morphs could be combined in some way into one and then a new morph could be made. Just like with atro it is hard to think of something that would synergize with high mobility. Maybe make it a defensive ult like permafrost that purges allies or something of that sort. >>insert your ideas<<

Passives
Rebate- useless

Powerstone- 100% useful

Daedric protection- 50% useful, SS only has one out of 12 possible morphs that can be slotted which will be useful

Expert summoner- 50% useful, again pigeon holes SS into using BA

Unholy Knowledge- 100% useful

Blood Magic- useless

Persistence- useless

exploitation- useless (kind of useful for groups, but recently became useless for solo)

Capacitor- 50% useful, gives a slight boost to off stat sustain but not by much

Energized- 100% useful

Amplitude- 50% useful, this passive really looses value depending on how strong single burst abilites are(ex.dizzy/2h ult)

expert mage-50% useful, usually your damage bar is full of weapon abilities anyways, and on your backbar nothing will use that wd typically (ex.crit surge/DD/utilities)

so stamsorc realistically has somewhere between 3-8 passives that are used. Where magsorc has 7-12, with plenty more choices to grab those pet passives. I would be perfectly fine if zos wanted to take the lazy route and just add in stamsorc portions to some of the useless passives, like give minor savagery to exploitation. I mean just take a look in the dark magic tree, only daedric mines can pull off the blood magic cooldown. There is no way to realistically capitalize on that especially as a stamsorc.

I dont really bother to touch on active abilities, for the reason that stamsorc does not need more abilities to slot. The limiting factor on a build always comes down to having to slot 2 or 3 barely useful abilities for the sole purpose of grabbing passives which really just pigeon holes builds at the end of the day.
TLDR:
stam morphs do not mean class identity, if i wanted to use frags i would play a magsorc.

BA is a joke of an idea for "class identity" instead of being a sorc they want me to be a left click warrior

Stamsorc has always been defined as a hard hitting mobile class, zos should play into that instead of ^^

Ults need to just be updated, mag sorc can easily avoid being touched at the benefit of giving stamsorc literally anything

Passives should be looked into, there are so little ways to grab them that a build really needs to stretch off meta to use them.

This 140%. Stamsorc while having only dark deal, streak and hurricane still feels very unique and adding gimmicks like stam atro, stam overload or some lame pet will most definitely not help the situation. Take stamcro as an example main bar you slot camo hunter,executioner,dswing,rally and blastbones. Thats 1 class skill. Backbar you slot the resistance buff(every class has one), vigor, spirit mender, restoring tether and a flex spot for evasion/poison inject/ransack, or ulti gain from corpses. Thats 2 skills on backbar. You either use the good ole onslaught or dawnbreaker frontbar and perhaps colosus or goliath backbar. Thats 4 class skills out of 12, no class spammable even if they have one. Yet stamcro feels very unique regardless and definitely not comparable to a stamsorc, who slots 4-5 class skills aswell.

The hurricane being major resolve source, even if the damage is low, still make a stamsorc very unique visually and definitely stand out of every other 2h stamboi.

In my opinionf f they would put as much thought into all passives and secondary effects on class abilities as they did for warden and necro stamsorc would perform and feel even better. Definitely NO to all the stam gimmicks of curse, frags, pets, spammable or overload.

Stx · April 2020

I love my stamsorc exactly the way he is, and hurricane is an amazing ability.. people in here saying it has bad damage? Smokin too much in this quarantine...

MincVinyl · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

Ehhhhhhh, so very long post about how I want my glasscannon with vigor have even more dmg... Can we finnaly stop supporting this mindless kind of gameplay (besides warden is better at it with falcon's switness) as it is majority of players (stacking turd dmg as vigor scales of it). Dodges, utility, staying in the fight for once please...

You somehow disagree with me, yet make arguments in favor of stamsorc needing changes. Like i said before, warden can do pretty much anything a stamsorc can do and more but 10% slower. The main concept of what I was trying to get across was that the class does not need to be based on just stacking weapon damage. If a unique mechanic would be added like higher movement speed = damage we might see more diverse builds than fury/nma/bs/brpdw. Avenues would be opened for builds to dip into mobility sets in the game instead of just the seasonal meta wd setup on whatever weapon is the strongest.

At no point am I asking for stamsorc to all of a sudden gain an extra 1000wd, I cant understand why you think this. Numerics are not the concern at this stage, it is more about concepts. For instance damage could be lost off of BA to gain the speed=damage concept. Back in the day there used to be a ton of build paths, mostly because soft caps helped, but now you can only stack wd.

Stx wrote: »

I love my stamsorc exactly the way he is, and hurricane is an amazing ability.. people in here saying it has bad damage? Smokin too much in this quarantine...

Not that stamsorc does not have enough damage, more of a concern of how little creativity zos has when aiming for class identity. In my opinion a light attack proc minigame does not scream unique and interesting. Which again is why i was suggesting adding a unique mechanic where movement speed was where stamsorc draws its damage from instead of tacked on passives. Much like how necro has the corpse system, it would pave a better way for zos to change the original classes than how they are currently planning.

Suligost · April 2020

MincVinyl wrote: »

Suligost wrote: »

Ehhhhhhh, so very long post about how I want my glasscannon with vigor have even more dmg... Can we finnaly stop supporting this mindless kind of gameplay (besides warden is better at it with falcon's switness) as it is majority of players (stacking turd dmg as vigor scales of it). Dodges, utility, staying in the fight for once please...

You somehow disagree with me, yet make arguments in favor of stamsorc needing changes. Like i said before, warden can do pretty much anything a stamsorc can do and more but 10% slower. The main concept of what I was trying to get across was that the class does not need to be based on just stacking weapon damage. If a unique mechanic would be added like higher movement speed = damage we might see more diverse builds than fury/nma/bs/brpdw. Avenues would be opened for builds to dip into mobility sets in the game instead of just the seasonal meta wd setup on whatever weapon is the strongest.

At no point am I asking for stamsorc to all of a sudden gain an extra 1000wd, I cant understand why you think this. Numerics are not the concern at this stage, it is more about concepts. For instance damage could be lost off of BA to gain the speed=damage concept. Back in the day there used to be a ton of build paths, mostly because soft caps helped, but now you can only stack wd.

Stx wrote: »

I love my stamsorc exactly the way he is, and hurricane is an amazing ability.. people in here saying it has bad damage? Smokin too much in this quarantine...

Not that stamsorc does not have enough damage, more of a concern of how little creativity zos has when aiming for class identity. In my opinion a light attack proc minigame does not scream unique and interesting. Which again is why i was suggesting adding a unique mechanic where movement speed was where stamsorc draws its damage from instead of tacked on passives. Much like how necro has the corpse system, it would pave a better way for zos to change the original classes than how they are currently planning.

We might see sonic the hedgehog that is more annyoing then NB invisibility before all nerfs. No, from point of dmg I rather see minor fracture or which would be way better minor defile... imagine having defile on BA after stacking all 4 daggers. Suddenly skill would become very usefull (stil I rather enforce people to do sucesfull dodges instead random using it and get rewards for it - very unique)

PS: Swift rings/neck, steed boon, new vampire passives, hurricane, orc and potion = 80% and how much dmg would that be? No, I would have seizure after fighting with such players.

MincVinyl · April 2020

Suligost wrote: »

We might see sonic the hedgehog that is more annyoing then NB invisibility before all nerfs. No, from point of dmg I rather see minor fracture or which would be way better minor defile... imagine having defile on BA after stacking all 4 daggers. Suddenly skill would become very usefull (stil I rather enforce people to do sucesfull dodges instead random using it and get rewards for it - very unique)

You are talking like there are no ways to already sit at that movement speed, and there are no counters to mobility. I will say it again, numerics would be worked out like any change, If we get scared of arbitrary numbers we wont see any changes to the game. Just tacking on defile or fracture to a sorry excuse of class identity wont make stamsorc unique.

Suligost wrote: »

PS: Swift rings/neck, steed boon, new vampire passives, hurricane, orc and potion = 80% and how much dmg would that be? No, I would have seizure after fighting with such players.

Once again arbitrary numerics, all of these forms of movement speed have already been capped and balanced. I also do not see why you included orc and vamp. Most players already run major expedition anyways. Then to run the steed you lose the warrior(base 238wd) and to run swift you lose your 3 infused wd (base 312wd). So from there balancing wise you would have a factor of inefficiency to run this type of build. If you have ever looked into running an all max stat build vs an all damage build you will see there is inefficiencies in the max stat build(at the cost of the utility of stat pool capacity). The same concept for balancing would be applied. The question would be for zos to figure out, how much is 1% movement speed worth?

Even so what i was suggesting in my first post was to think of ideas other than a slightly different light attack proc or what ability can we cry to make a stam copy of. Try to think of different engines so to speak for classes to utilize, much like how necro uses the corpse system. Stamsorcs always have banked on mobility, base a concept of of that. Nightblades have always been the rogue type, do something with that. How does a light attack proc engine fit those definitions in anyway, how do those represent "class identity"? Even if they just changed the proc on nightblade to be something like gaining a stack for attacking out of stealth or attacking from behind would be more defining than a light attack proc.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2020

Let's not forget that PvE is a thing as well when we're busy dismissing things such as Stamina morphs or new class abilities.

In dungeon setup, my 2H/Bow stamSorc uses... three class skills: Surge, Hurricane, and double-barred Bound Armaments (for the passives). Amazing class identity! Especially because those are buff skills and all of my actual damage-dealing skills are generic weapon and guild abilities.

Meanwhile we have Templars able to use basically 100% class skills and actually looking and playing like a unique class (with all other classes somewhere on that spectrum from Templar <-> stamSorc).

Passives alone won't fix stamSorcs. We need actual abilities to use that are ours and ours alone.