I want an option to draw other PCs with lore appropriate outfits.

A_Silverius · April 2020

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

You probably should try out any of the content/stories related to those skins before you call it "lore breaking" or read some descriptions at the very least.

Sure, but then you got descriptions like this:
"“Kaoc! That luridly patterned Scale Skin style worn by the Bright-Throats is far too gaudy. Could a serious person appear in public like that? I think not.” – Jaxsik-Orrn of the Dead-Water Tribe"

Hardly an explanation of the lore.

If I'm getting you right it's lore breaking that some particular argonian tribe may cover their scales with some pigment or chalks? Not sure you're serious or not with that exact example. Other skins represent kinda same concept, like being afflicted by some disease or curse, undergoing some reachman ritual or simple paining yourself with ritual paint for the sake of it. Hardly it's breaking anything, but it seems subjective and depends on ones imagination and experience.

It's not lore breaking if an argonian pc uses the skin, its lore breaking when a non-argonian pcs uses the skin and grows scales. Which is why I used the picture earlier as an example.

ImmortalCX · April 2020

Reverb wrote: »

Do you try to police how people look and dress irl? Because part of sharing the world with other people means dealing with the fact that they sometimes behave or appear in a way we wouldn’t want them to. And that’s their choice.

I too dislike the flashy mounts and skins. But I do not want any developer time being spent on suppressing them.

When you go out to a fine dining establishment, there is a dress code.

When you pay hundreds of dollars for a AAA game, you should be able to enjoy the immersion. Its the same as going to a fine restaurant. There is an expectation that the party next to you wont be wearing ripped up tshirt and jeans.

The argument goes both ways. If someone else wants to do something odd, thats fine if its in the comfort of their own home. I'm not going to stop them. The problem is when they force me to participate.

Why is it such a big deal that every other player sees your creation? Doesn't it have the same value if only you see it?

When you are listening to songs with headphones, does it have any less value if other people can't hear it? No. The song still has enjoyment to you.

If you need to force other people to see your "artistic" choices, that is a problem.

ImmortalCX · April 2020

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, I would like to be able to derender all but friends - what about that?- It is an MMO and in the end we will have to tolerate each other to a certain point. I don't like the glowing mounts with all these noisy and flashy summoning effects and lasting particles later on, but it is unlikely that it will disappear. People paid for it and I guess they want it to be seen.

There's clearly justification in the argument that having paid for it they want to see it themselves, but I don't see any justification in the argument that they want other people to see it. That simply puts them in the same category as forum posters who insist on creating a new topic with the heading in caps rather than adding their comment to an existing topic.It's attaching a level of self-importance among others that simply isn't justified.

Exactly. See my song analogy above.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 2020

What I propose is that there be a game setting where other PCs are drawn with their stock racial styles. That's it. I dont want to see a male orc in a Technicolor wedding dress when I'm exploring the new Blackreach.

Please point to the exact place in the lore that says male orcs don't wear Technicolor wedding dresses, because the last time I checked, members of any race have free will, and if anything, seeing the variety of choices actual people make when they choose to clothe themselves as individuals rather than clones of each other is more realistic than someones idealized vision of what a race "should be" wearing.

If you truly want to get into the story and the concept of immersion, then immerse yourself in this- at any point in time, any member of any race has the free will to break through their cultural norms as a form of self expression, and whether you/your character like it or not, they will be there, just as they are in the real world, and you will have to deal with it. The game is actually more realistic and immersive when you realize that just like in the real world you and your character cant control other people and never will.

Its a realization I had to make myself, once upon a time.

That being said, am I open to the idea of there being a toggle or a mod that allows people to play the game this way? Sure. You do you- I have no desire to control what your preferences are either, and if you want to play the game that way, then you have the right to. The only reason I want it however is because I feel drawing from basic resources would reduce lag and loading times for some people which could be nice in certain circumstances, such as when I'm loading quickly in and out of towns to do event dailies quickly.

Its simply that the whole idea that it's lorebreaking is absurd, when it actually comes down to people having a certain aestetic preference they want to enforce on their gameplay experience. It doesn't have anything to do with the lore. It has to do with you and your choices.

ImmortalCX · April 2020

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

That being said, am I open to the idea of there being a toggle or a mod that allows people to play the game this way? Sure. You do you- I have no desire to control what your preferences are either

Exactly. Live and let live.

Regarding the whole "free will" argument... Thats kinda BS. You and I both know the players who wear these garish outfits are doing it for attention, they know it is lore breaking and don't care.

Lore breaking costumes are in the same category with hackers. They both ruin the game experience, but in different ways.

A hacker hacks the game so he can win at PVP. Who am I to tell him he cant do it? Well, its because it ruins MY game expereince.

Most other players have good judgement, but the ones wearing pink wedding dresses are doing it to screw with other players.

Thats why I suggest a toggle setting.

I saw all those Greymoor preview videos and realized it would be ruined by the clown costumes.

colossalvoids · April 2020

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

You probably should try out any of the content/stories related to those skins before you call it "lore breaking" or read some descriptions at the very least.

Sure, but then you got descriptions like this:
"“Kaoc! That luridly patterned Scale Skin style worn by the Bright-Throats is far too gaudy. Could a serious person appear in public like that? I think not.” – Jaxsik-Orrn of the Dead-Water Tribe"

Hardly an explanation of the lore.

If I'm getting you right it's lore breaking that some particular argonian tribe may cover their scales with some pigment or chalks? Not sure you're serious or not with that exact example. Other skins represent kinda same concept, like being afflicted by some disease or curse, undergoing some reachman ritual or simple paining yourself with ritual paint for the sake of it. Hardly it's breaking anything, but it seems subjective and depends on ones imagination and experience.

It's not lore breaking if an argonian pc uses the skin, its lore breaking when a non-argonian pcs uses the skin and grows scales. Which is why I used the picture earlier as an example.

Picture isn't showing but i got the point. I personally would like some skins or costumes be gender/race locked like hairstyles or similar stuff but most people would hate the idea of mhk skin being locked to werewolves or brp ones for argonians and I'm ok with it.
Anyway it's pretty easy to come up with idea that someone glued crocodile scales for a ritual or simply fashion reason or made an alteration spell like maomer fish which one probably implies by saying "emulate" in it's description.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 2020

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

That being said, am I open to the idea of there being a toggle or a mod that allows people to play the game this way? Sure. You do you- I have no desire to control what your preferences are either

Exactly. Live and let live.

Regarding the whole "free will" argument... Thats kinda BS. You and I both know the players who wear these garish outfits are doing it for attention, they know it is lore breaking and don't care.

Lore breaking costumes are in the same category with hackers. They both ruin the game experience, but in different ways.

A hacker hacks the game so he can win at PVP. Who am I to tell him he cant do it? Well, its because it ruins MY game expereince.

Most other players have good judgement, but the ones wearing pink wedding dresses are doing it to screw with other players.

Thats why I suggest a toggle setting.

I saw all those Greymoor preview videos and realized it would be ruined by the clown costumes.

The free will argument is there to give you a way to wrap your head around the presence of these costumes and these people in the game while still giving you a "appropriate" explanation for why they are there. Turning on your mental filters and expanding the story by creating explanations within your own mind can be a powerful tool to actually opening up and enriching your experience rather than limiting yourself to the small boxes in which many people think the world- fantasy worlds and otherwise, need to fit. I've learned to have a sense of humor about it rather than sitting around feeling that people are deliberately attempting to attack me. I hope you can too.

IsharaMeradin · April 2020

I played one game that had options to hide other player outfits with a basic style. It also had options to hide players outside of the team as well as hiding pets and even enemies. In no way did it hamper their sales of cosmetics and pets. It was merely an option for players experiencing poor performance to reduce what was being loaded on screen.

Would I like something like this in ESO? Sure, as long as it is an option and not the default setting.

At the same time, I do wonder which would be more "immersion" breaking:

Players running around in all sorts of outfits some of which may be out of place
Players running around in all the same gear solely depending upon their race

If it helps with performance, I'd be happy to have the options. If it hinders performance, leave it out of the game.

ImmortalCX · April 2020

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

That being said, am I open to the idea of there being a toggle or a mod that allows people to play the game this way? Sure. You do you- I have no desire to control what your preferences are either

Exactly. Live and let live.

Regarding the whole "free will" argument... Thats kinda BS. You and I both know the players who wear these garish outfits are doing it for attention, they know it is lore breaking and don't care.

Lore breaking costumes are in the same category with hackers. They both ruin the game experience, but in different ways.

A hacker hacks the game so he can win at PVP. Who am I to tell him he cant do it? Well, its because it ruins MY game expereince.

Most other players have good judgement, but the ones wearing pink wedding dresses are doing it to screw with other players.

Thats why I suggest a toggle setting.

I saw all those Greymoor preview videos and realized it would be ruined by the clown costumes.

The free will argument is there to give you a way to wrap your head around the presence of these costumes and these people in the game while still giving you a "appropriate" explanation for why they are there. Turning on your mental filters and expanding the story by creating explanations within your own mind can be a powerful tool to actually opening up and enriching your experience rather than limiting yourself to the small boxes in which many people think the world- fantasy worlds and otherwise, need to fit. I've learned to have a sense of humor about it rather than sitting around feeling that people are deliberately attempting to attack me. I hope you can too.

But when I play, its MY game. Why should I have to do some sort of mental twister to come up with an alternate explanation.

A thug beats you and robs you, but instead of reporting it to the police, you reinterpret the event as, "I decided to give him some money" so you can feel good about yourself and the world. No.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 2020

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

That being said, am I open to the idea of there being a toggle or a mod that allows people to play the game this way? Sure. You do you- I have no desire to control what your preferences are either

Exactly. Live and let live.

Regarding the whole "free will" argument... Thats kinda BS. You and I both know the players who wear these garish outfits are doing it for attention, they know it is lore breaking and don't care.

Lore breaking costumes are in the same category with hackers. They both ruin the game experience, but in different ways.

A hacker hacks the game so he can win at PVP. Who am I to tell him he cant do it? Well, its because it ruins MY game expereince.

Most other players have good judgement, but the ones wearing pink wedding dresses are doing it to screw with other players.

Thats why I suggest a toggle setting.

I saw all those Greymoor preview videos and realized it would be ruined by the clown costumes.

The free will argument is there to give you a way to wrap your head around the presence of these costumes and these people in the game while still giving you a "appropriate" explanation for why they are there. Turning on your mental filters and expanding the story by creating explanations within your own mind can be a powerful tool to actually opening up and enriching your experience rather than limiting yourself to the small boxes in which many people think the world- fantasy worlds and otherwise, need to fit. I've learned to have a sense of humor about it rather than sitting around feeling that people are deliberately attempting to attack me. I hope you can too.

But when I play, its MY game. Why should I have to do some sort of mental twister to come up with an alternate explanation.

A thug beats you and robs you, but instead of reporting it to the police, you reinterpret the event as, "I decided to give him some money" so you can feel good about yourself and the world. No.

But it isn't your game. Its an MMORPG. While I agree that there should be a toggle, I was only suggesting a way you could help yourself in the mean time and even begin to enjoy it. I'm sorry you don't enjoy creating different stories for yourself and ways to incorporate things into your gameplay experience and that it's so upsetting for you. It isn't about feeling good about myself and the world, its more about the fact that I just like stories and anything that contributes to them, and letting my characters live in a story that I don't control 100% has expanded my experience.

Again, I don't consider myself to be abused or debased by other people wearing things I don't like.There is also absolutely no comparison between seeing someone run by in a costume you don't like and being physically injured and stolen from in the real world. Now, if the person were trolling you, following you, and mud balling you every 5 seconds along whispering you while wearing their dress because they delibrately want to destroy your experience? I'd certainly call that harassment. But someone running by in a costume that doesn't please you aesthetically is not injuring you in any way.

ImmortalCX · April 2020

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Again, I don't consider myself to be abused or debased by other people wearing things I don't like.There is also absolutely no comparison between seeing someone run by in a costume you don't like and being physically injured and stolen from in the real world. Now, if the person were trolling you, following you, and mud balling you every 5 seconds along whispering you while wearing their dress because they delibrately want to destroy your experience? I'd certainly call that harassment. But someone running by in a costume that doesn't please you aesthetically is not injuring you in any way.

It was just an example of what youre suggesting I do. Come up with an alternate (yet not true) explanation of what is happening so I can "feel better" about the game.

MattT1988 · April 2020

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

GeorgeBlack · April 2020

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

furiouslog · April 2020

ImmortalCX wrote: »

It was just an example of what youre suggesting I do. Come up with an alternate (yet not true) explanation of what is happening so I can "feel better" about the game.

Honestly., it sounds like you are not the target consumer for this game, and you should probably find another game that conforms more closely to your expectations.

I'm not even sure what constitutes "garish" in the game such that it breaks immersion. Everything offered in the crown store and motifs has a short backstory or a link to the world, so any combination of outfit styles, costumes, and dyes that are feasible are therefore a "realistic" possibility for a given character.

idk · April 2020

No offense but this will not happen. Zos will allow us control over what our characters look like, not what someone else thinks they should look like. This is pretty much a fact.

Part of it is GaaS type games are no longer supported by the cost to access the game like subscriptions and certainly not the cheaper way to play the game, purchasing DLCs. Everything else in the world has increased in cost yet it still is only $15/month to subscribe to an MMORPG. So the cash shop makes up for the cost. It is life so I suggest either get over it or find a different entertainment if it truly bothers you.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · April 2020

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

You probably should try out any of the content/stories related to those skins before you call it "lore breaking" or read some descriptions at the very least.

Sure, but then you got descriptions like this:
"“Kaoc! That luridly patterned Scale Skin style worn by the Bright-Throats is far too gaudy. Could a serious person appear in public like that? I think not.” – Jaxsik-Orrn of the Dead-Water Tribe"

Hardly an explanation of the lore.

If I'm getting you right it's lore breaking that some particular argonian tribe may cover their scales with some pigment or chalks? Not sure you're serious or not with that exact example. Other skins represent kinda same concept, like being afflicted by some disease or curse, undergoing some reachman ritual or simple paining yourself with ritual paint for the sake of it. Hardly it's breaking anything, but it seems subjective and depends on ones imagination and experience.

It's not lore breaking if an argonian pc uses the skin, its lore breaking when a non-argonian pcs uses the skin and grows scales. Which is why I used the picture earlier as an example.

Yet ESO is full of inter-species romantic relationships and without children in the game we have no way to know the results of said couplings.

I see a lot of skins and outfits I wouldn't be caught dead in but if the other player likes the look good for them. You know live and let live. Whether it is lore breaking or not I leave up to ZOS to decide. If it's in the game then I consider it conforming but then again I'm not one to worry about mythological purity. I'm sure one could find plenty of worse infractions than how another player looks if they tried.

Nord_Raseri · April 2020

Darkstorne wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

There's a tip for you... ESO is canon. Anything and everything in ESO is canon. It's lore. Deal with it the best way you can.

It isn't though. In soooooooo many ways.

Show me where it says eso isn't canon and I'll join you in whining about it.

The events are canon. That doesn’t mean every single visual detail is canon. You know that. You wouldn’t take the world’s scale in ESO as canon, or the “whoops, we forgot to leave a space for Blacklight in Morrowind” as canon, or the presence of loading screens separating zones as canon, would you? Some aspects are clearly for the game, not canon, and selling whales peacock outfits and mounts are part of that.

ESO has done a lot to challenge MMO norms and evolve the genre though, and I love them for that. One Tamriel removing level gating for example, when a lot of unimaginative folks would say “it’s an MMO, it has to have level gating.” I’m convinced that one day we’ll see an MMO learn when it’s a good idea to phase players into solo instances, and when it’s best to phase into multiplayer instances. Delves and questing in the overland or villages and small towns would be much better solo for instance, where the game challenge is designed for solo play, and MMO tropes like respawns would no longer need to be relied on as a crutch. Delve design could be vastly improved as a result, with guaranteed chests at the end of dungeons like single player TES games. World bosses, dolmens, public dungeons, and larger towns and cities could all auto phase in other players. That way immersion is improved while questing or exploring, and players are still around when you actually want them to be. Until then, we’re stuck with peacocks though

Take this beautiful gameplay video for Greymoor for example. Looks gorgeous! But sadly not representative of the game without smart phasing tech, since it’s missing all the peacocked players running and jumping around, sprinting through the delves animation cancelling their way to the boss faster than you can so you just have a corpse-littered walk instead of a fun delve...

https://youtu.be/gJodQfNx-ws

@Darkstorne

Kiralyn2000 · April 2020

Hide everyone's outfits so you don't see them? Bah - Fashion Wars™ is endgame.

(achivement-hunter and cash-shop 'cosmetics' are the huge draw they are for a reason.)

Do I agree with every outfit I see? No. But it's still fine - if I want my Nifty Non-technicolor Non-lore-breaking outfit to be seen, I need to let their outfits be seen. Your "replace everything with Default Racial Outfit" gets rid of everything. Even perfectly fine Outfit System outfits made from a mix of well-fitting motifs.

And even with everyone in a generic outfit, your oh-so-fragile "immersion" (so glad I don't suffer from that malady) will still be "broken" by stupid names, bunny-hopping, strange chat, odd titles, etc.

...meanwhile, in Skyrim, my characters are much more "lore breaking" than anything in ESO. Mods are awesome!

(and I don't even go for the really crazy stuff - no Macho Man dragon attacks or spells that rain Thomas The Tank Engine across the world. The whole "well, MY lore is Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim" thing is funny to me, considering how gratuitously all those games have been modded by people.)

Nord_Raseri · April 2020

StormeReigns wrote: »

Could use more Caligula. A healthy mixture between the historical lunatic emperor and Malcolm McDowell's cinematic version rolled into being a new ESO antagonist would bring all sorts of entertainment as well to outshine the self loathing peacocks who hate that they got outshined by another peacock in game.

Caligula, as in the Emperor who had his army attack the sea because his brain was deteriorating probably due to Syphilis?

Muizer · April 2020

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the things I hate about eso is that we're forced to view other players with their goofy, gaudy, unrealistic costumes.

I know this is something people pay money to do,, customize their character, but does it really matter if not everyone else can see it?

All this work is being put into Greymoors environment and the immersion, but it will be ruined by players running around in their clown costumes.

What I propose is that there be a game setting where other PCs are drawn with their stock racial styles. That's it. I dont want to see a male orc in a Technicolor wedding dress when I'm exploring the new Blackreach.

Yep, I'd even be willing to pay for the perk. Let me buy those "see through all 'illusion magicked costumes' goggles" from the crown store!

Xologamer · April 2020

Btw just for you spamming my message bar on the forum i will run around as gold skeleton (trust me its possible) in the next patch

i hope we see us ingame
and i even force u to see a red fancy lorebreaking custom title ingame just because it improves MY game (you argumentet the same way like its MY emersion so everyone else has to dela with it so now deal with my emersion) ^^

and to be a bit construcitve... players are paying tons of money that they look fancy and that other player see how fancy they are with a toggle ability it would reduce the sales for sure

JBNimble · April 2020

Best request in an online-game: "I don't like what these other people are doing, please give me an option to stop it."
I'd like that in rl.

StormeReigns · April 2020

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

Could use more Caligula. A healthy mixture between the historical lunatic emperor and Malcolm McDowell's cinematic version rolled into being a new ESO antagonist would bring all sorts of entertainment as well to outshine the self loathing peacocks who hate that they got outshined by another peacock in game.

Caligula, as in the Emperor who had his army attack the sea because his brain was deteriorating probably due to Syphilis?

Might be the same one. Talking bout the 3rd Emperor Caligula. The one who threw Audience members into the arena to be eaten for sheer entertainment. With the possibilities of Murderous (lewd) parties on his giant floating palace(s), combine that with a bit of Malcolm McDowell's depiction from 1979 movie as new antagonist, but unkillable, so they ruffle all the feathers.

JKorr · April 2020

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

You probably should try out any of the content/stories related to those skins before you call it "lore breaking" or read some descriptions at the very least.

Sure, but then you got descriptions like this:
"“Kaoc! That luridly patterned Scale Skin style worn by the Bright-Throats is far too gaudy. Could a serious person appear in public like that? I think not.” – Jaxsik-Orrn of the Dead-Water Tribe"

Hardly an explanation of the lore.

About the lore thing:

Argonian appearances range from reptilian to almost human; this is caused by the Hist sap they ingest as hatchlings[31] which ceremonially takes place on their Naming Day.[50] An Argonians' appearance and physiology is almost solely determined by their Hist. This leads to some Argonian tribes differing widely in appearance from their neighbors. For example, the Bright-Throats of Murkmire have brightly colored scales of many hues. Their neighbors, the Naga-Kur, have dark, sometimes iridescent scales and red eyes. Additionally, the Naga-Kur Tribe consists of Naga, a subspecies of Argonian with elongated heads and large mouths.[63] Though an Argonian can have ancestry from a wildly different tribe, they will always display the characteristics of the tribe that they were born into. A good example of this is the Ghost People tribe, known in Jel as the Veeshkleel. All Veeshkleel are impotent and cannot have children of their own, but by stealing eggs and hatching them under their own Hist Tree, all Veeshkleel display the same traits.[64][65] Certain traits may fade the further an Argonian is from their respective Hist, though they will also come back once the Argonian returns to their Hist.[66] Strange and reclusive Argonians that live in places away from sunlight, such as subterranean caverns, will lose the color of their scales and become pale.[67] An Argonian can also ask their Hist Tree to change their gender, which is typically followed by a celebratory ceremony.[68]

As far as Jaxisik-Orrn goes......So the esthetic judgement of a Naga Argonian who thinks its perfectly lovely to use a weapon made from her dead brother's body is to be taken as absolute...... The game has bright, flamboyant npcs; the game has strict and rigid Puritan npcs. Unless you really have to follow the current fashions, what difference does it make? Even if you do have to follow the current fashions, which fashions do you choose, and how do you decide? Pretty sure the Altmer on Summerset aren't going to consider the lastest trend in Grahtwood to be appropriate. What the Nords are wearing in Windhelm won't go over well with the khajiiti. Personal preference.

ImmortalCX · April 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Hide everyone's outfits so you don't see them? Bah - Fashion Wars™ is endgame.
(achivement-hunter and cash-shop 'cosmetics' are the huge draw they are for a reason.)

Do I agree with every outfit I see? No. But it's still fine - if I want my Nifty Non-technicolor Non-lore-breaking outfit to be seen, I need to let their outfits be seen. Your "replace everything with Default Racial Outfit" gets rid of everything. Even perfectly fine Outfit System outfits made from a mix of well-fitting motifs.

No it doesn't. Alot of players still want to see your outfit, they will have the toggle on.

Some other players (like me) want to experience new content in a "role playing" kind of way. They should have the option to turn off/on other players costumes when they don't want to see them.

What is funny/sad/ironic about this ...what I'm learning to be true... is that its very important for the cosmetic players to be seen, they aren't doing it for themselves.

Its like listening to music. You wear your headphones when in public because no one else wants to hear your music. Do you enjoy it less because no one else is hearing it? No. The song has value even when other people aren't hearing it. That is the way cosmetics should be. The guy who blasts his music in public is being inconsiderate.

Like it or not, ESO has a large role playing and solo player contingent. That was the one thing I really liked about ESO and hated about WOW. It was more like a single player RP game in its realism.

If the primary motivation is for players to force other people to see "what they bought" that is just materialism and bragging.

To a well adjusted person, it shouldn't matter if I choose not to see what you bought. I am more likely to buy expansions if I can play without seeing the clown costumes.

A_Silverius · April 2020

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

You probably should try out any of the content/stories related to those skins before you call it "lore breaking" or read some descriptions at the very least.

Sure, but then you got descriptions like this:
"“Kaoc! That luridly patterned Scale Skin style worn by the Bright-Throats is far too gaudy. Could a serious person appear in public like that? I think not.” – Jaxsik-Orrn of the Dead-Water Tribe"

Hardly an explanation of the lore.

If I'm getting you right it's lore breaking that some particular argonian tribe may cover their scales with some pigment or chalks? Not sure you're serious or not with that exact example. Other skins represent kinda same concept, like being afflicted by some disease or curse, undergoing some reachman ritual or simple paining yourself with ritual paint for the sake of it. Hardly it's breaking anything, but it seems subjective and depends on ones imagination and experience.

It's not lore breaking if an argonian pc uses the skin, its lore breaking when a non-argonian pcs uses the skin and grows scales. Which is why I used the picture earlier as an example.

Picture isn't showing but i got the point. I personally would like some skins or costumes be gender/race locked like hairstyles or similar stuff but most people would hate the idea of mhk skin being locked to werewolves or brp ones for argonians and I'm ok with it.
Anyway it's pretty easy to come up with idea that someone glued crocodile scales for a ritual or simply fashion reason or made an alteration spell like maomer fish which one probably implies by saying "emulate" in it's description.

Oh, it's basically an elf with scales. I myself don't really mind most of the skins and mounts, I've learnt to live with them and even find some quite cool looking. I think the best solution for those who prefer a more lore friendly world is to have an optional toggle which turns off skins for other players they are looking at and turn mounts into generic ones.

ZonasArch · April 2020

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

The game is canon, and if it's in the game, it's part of the lore. There's even descriptions of them, to build lore.

If you are so entitled that you refuse to accept lore expansion except of it is one you agree/like, then you should go create your own IP. One that you can keep entirely to your taste, instead of having Bethesda expand on it.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2020

Circling back to the canon question: look up what a 'Dragon Break' is in Elder Scrolls lore.

It is basically Bethesda's way of side-stepping the question of "what actually happened" in any of their games by saying that it ALL happened but in different fragments of reality (dare I say, 'instances').

They then choose what "officially" happened to set up the next game by using only the lowest common denominator plot elements from the previous game, so for ESO it would be "The Vestige defeated Molag Bal" but leaving aside low-level details such as "What was their race?", "What was their class?" or "Were they ever Emperor?"

They further side-step low-level details by saying that "Someone" also did the Summerset main quest and Clockwork City, saved Falkreath Hold, etc. but leave it completely open as to whether or not that was actually the canonical Vestige or some other 'adventurer.' In other words, all of those events happen, it's only a question of who did them... which ultimately does not matter for the purposes of subsequent games.

So ESO is canon in the sense that the main quest and other plot lines happened but your individual character and experiences are decidedly not canon due to the Dragon Break.

A_Silverius · April 2020

JKorr wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

You probably should try out any of the content/stories related to those skins before you call it "lore breaking" or read some descriptions at the very least.

Sure, but then you got descriptions like this:
"“Kaoc! That luridly patterned Scale Skin style worn by the Bright-Throats is far too gaudy. Could a serious person appear in public like that? I think not.” – Jaxsik-Orrn of the Dead-Water Tribe"

Hardly an explanation of the lore.

About the lore thing:

Argonian appearances range from reptilian to almost human; this is caused by the Hist sap they ingest as hatchlings[31] which ceremonially takes place on their Naming Day.[50] An Argonians' appearance and physiology is almost solely determined by their Hist. This leads to some Argonian tribes differing widely in appearance from their neighbors. For example, the Bright-Throats of Murkmire have brightly colored scales of many hues. Their neighbors, the Naga-Kur, have dark, sometimes iridescent scales and red eyes. Additionally, the Naga-Kur Tribe consists of Naga, a subspecies of Argonian with elongated heads and large mouths.[63] Though an Argonian can have ancestry from a wildly different tribe, they will always display the characteristics of the tribe that they were born into. A good example of this is the Ghost People tribe, known in Jel as the Veeshkleel. All Veeshkleel are impotent and cannot have children of their own, but by stealing eggs and hatching them under their own Hist Tree, all Veeshkleel display the same traits.[64][65] Certain traits may fade the further an Argonian is from their respective Hist, though they will also come back once the Argonian returns to their Hist.[66] Strange and reclusive Argonians that live in places away from sunlight, such as subterranean caverns, will lose the color of their scales and become pale.[67] An Argonian can also ask their Hist Tree to change their gender, which is typically followed by a celebratory ceremony.[68]

As far as Jaxisik-Orrn goes......So the esthetic judgement of a Naga Argonian who thinks its perfectly lovely to use a weapon made from her dead brother's body is to be taken as absolute...... The game has bright, flamboyant npcs; the game has strict and rigid Puritan npcs. Unless you really have to follow the current fashions, what difference does it make? Even if you do have to follow the current fashions, which fashions do you choose, and how do you decide? Pretty sure the Altmer on Summerset aren't going to consider the lastest trend in Grahtwood to be appropriate. What the Nords are wearing in Windhelm won't go over well with the khajiiti. Personal preference.

I don't think that they meant Argonians would take on the facial appearance of humans but rather, like the source states, their physiology. That's why we have Argonians with hind legs in Morrowind.

Again, as I stated in another comment, Argonian pcs using an Argonian skin is fine. The picture I provided shows a Dark Elf with scales that came with the Argonian skin.

Here it is for people who can't see it https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/12/Bright-Throat-Scale-Male-Front.jpg

LadyNalcarya · April 2020

Reverb wrote: »

Do you try to police how people look and dress irl? Because part of sharing the world with other people means dealing with the fact that they sometimes behave or appear in a way we wouldn’t want them to. And that’s their choice.

I too dislike the flashy mounts and skins. But I do not want any developer time being spent on suppressing them.

This, pretty much.
You cannot force other players to be 100% immersive anyway. There will always be lore-breaking names, people jumping around, weird guild names, chat discussions, etc.