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NoCP Stamblade - Incapacitating Strike or Soul Harvest?

MurderMostFoul
MurderMostFoul
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So I just leveled my first NB (stamina) and am going to mostly BG with it. I want to run a morph of Death Stroke as my primary damage Ulti, so I am looking for some advice as to which I should choose. I'm not running any sets that would benefit one morph more than the other:

If Incapacitating Strike:

I'll get the stun with 120 Ult, and run a Nirnhoned 2H Maul. There is also a bit of added sustain.

If Soul Harvest:

I'll get Major Defile on every cast, but rely on Invisibility->Surprise attack for a stun. I'll run a Nirnhoned 2H Greatsword so my Ult still benefits from Heavy Weapons 2H passive, and I'll get 10 ult on every kill on my damage/front bar.

Which do y'all think is better?
Edited by MurderMostFoul on April 2, 2020 6:27PM
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
    oXI_Viper_IXo
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    Incap for Stamblade.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Incap for Stamblade.

    Beyond the basic Disease Damage = Stam, Magic Damage = Mag, why is this your suggestion?

    Ults scale with your highest offensive stats, so unless you are running a set/have passives that strongly favor one morph over the other, the damage will be roughly the same.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
    oXI_Viper_IXo
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    Incap for Stamblade.

    Beyond the basic Disease Damage = Stam, Magic Damage = Mag, why is this your suggestion?

    Ults scale with your highest offensive stats, so unless you are running a set/have passives that strongly favor one morph over the other, the damage will be roughly the same.

    For the stun.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Incap for Stamblade.

    Beyond the basic Disease Damage = Stam, Magic Damage = Mag, why is this your suggestion?

    Ults scale with your highest offensive stats, so unless you are running a set/have passives that strongly favor one morph over the other, the damage will be roughly the same.

    For the stun.

    Thanks for elaborating!
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
    oXI_Viper_IXo
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    Incap for Stamblade.

    Beyond the basic Disease Damage = Stam, Magic Damage = Mag, why is this your suggestion?

    Ults scale with your highest offensive stats, so unless you are running a set/have passives that strongly favor one morph over the other, the damage will be roughly the same.

    For the stun.

    Thanks for elaborating!

    No problem =]
  • JohunBleek
    JohunBleek
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    All I can say is try both out, it's all preference. Personally I stick with incap for the stun and bigger burst with my combo. People die much easier in no-cp from my experience, and incap just helps them die faster. Also I always stick with maul>greatsword.

    I prefer incap in no cp for the same reasons, although soul harvest's major defile is probably more efficient since healing is crazy in cp, not as crazy no-cp. I do know people who run it and have been successful.

    Nightblades also build ultimate fairly quickly by using potions. You also (with the assult passive) get ultimate after every kill, as well as using siphoning strikes. Since death stroke is so cheap the extra 10 every kill isn't something I really consider.

    Depends on your build / playstyle. In most cases incap comes out on top for stam nightblade.
    Best NB NA
  • ne.ga.kurai_ESO
    ne.ga.kurai_ESO
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    Crit on Soul Harvest is still based on Spell Crit is it not? But damage scales off highest stat.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Crit on Soul Harvest is still based on Spell Crit is it not? But damage scales off highest stat.

    I believe it's scales off of your highest crit type as well.

    I don't think it uses your highest penetration type though.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • ThePedge
    ThePedge
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    I've swapped back to Incap for the stun. The Defile on Soul Harvest is really nice, but if Incap hits you should be able to bow proc immediately after when they're stunned for more burst, than Stun, Soul Harvest, Bow Proc. As bow will always be dodged in that case
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    I've swapped back to Incap for the stun. The Defile on Soul Harvest is really nice, but if Incap hits you should be able to bow proc immediately after when they're stunned for more burst, than Stun, Soul Harvest, Bow Proc. As bow will always be dodged in that case

    Not sure how this translates to Stamblade (I don't play it) but on a Magblade running Soul Harvest, that's simply not the order you do things anyway. You open with Soul Harvest, preferably from stealth, then stun with Fear and lastly you fire the Bow proc. Usually after being hit by Soul Harvest their next instinctive move is to dodge roll, as they know a Bow proc is coming. Fear stuns them mid-dodge which takes an extra half-second to break out of and it only guarantees that the Bow proc will hit.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Incap for Stamblade.
    Dawnbreaker of Smiting is way better.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Incap for Stamblade.
    Dawnbreaker of Smiting is way better.

    Yeah, I sometimes wish my ulti was AOE on Stamblade, but I try to use as much class flavor as possible, and the cheap cost on Incap is really nice.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
    oXI_Viper_IXo
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    Incap for Stamblade.
    Dawnbreaker of Smiting is way better.

    Yeah but that wasn't one of the options lol.

    I would also argue that it's not always "way better," it depends on the situation. I like Incap better for single target damage and DB is a generic ult that you can use on any class. Incap feels better for NB playstyle IMO and it's cheaper.
    Edited by oXI_Viper_IXo on April 6, 2020 5:37PM
  • JinxxND
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    Soul harvest imo, the only thing you really lose is the spell pen vs the phy pen but in this terrible healing/tank meta defile goes way further. Incap isn't gonna allow you to kill anyone that soul harvest wouldn't but soul harvest because of the defile will allow you to kill tankier people and squishy people will already die incap or soul harvest, and in non CP the dmg on soul harvest if built right is really good and it's very ez to hit 10k+ soul harvest just with a good build.
    PC NA -
    'Jinxx - Nightblade
    'Jinxx X Necromancer
  • JinxxND
    JinxxND
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    Also I might add the stun mechanic on incap at 120 is terrible better off using dawnbreaker of smiting with all the vampires and as it is undodgeable and the cast time doesn't seem nearly as brutal as incap, someone at zos implemented the 120 ult trigger when it used to have major defile to access the stun, but now without the major defile if incap is to stay the way it is esp in this meta it should stun at all times at 70 ult since it is lacking the major defile and people just tend to block heal or roll dodge heal with how predictable your combo is with it esp with cast times
    Edited by JinxxND on April 6, 2020 9:07PM
    PC NA -
    'Jinxx - Nightblade
    'Jinxx X Necromancer
  • JinxxND
    JinxxND
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    Also just a tip for using soul harvest and maxing its dmg try to avoid sets like spriggans/two fang serpent that only boost phys pen. Also sword > maul ONLY for soul harvest vs incap

    As a nb esp in this meta I think the only mundus you should run is lover which boost your dmg the most and gives you spell pen or serpent for sustain. Warrior dmg compared to lover is a lot lower and nb has terrible healing as is so you might as well focus on full dmg, shadow mundus is a meme in "most cases" cause you can't build a crit rate in pvp high enough without losing raw stats for the base dmg and then using stuff like minor force, also run a sharpened weapon over nirn unless using onslaught.

    NMA/sharpened weapon and lover mundus will put you at 7k spell pen and 7k phys pen so your gonna hit super hard without doing weird stuff like divines on your armor. You have the option as well to fit mark target as well further boosting your effective spell pen against a target if you want and then your well over 10k spell pen which is light armor mag users level of pen with major breach plus medium armor wd and in non CP that will nuke almost anyone and if they aren't nuked they are now affected wirh major defile and the vulnerability for 6 seconds which is plenty of time to land a bow when they can't heal
    Edited by JinxxND on April 6, 2020 9:35PM
    PC NA -
    'Jinxx - Nightblade
    'Jinxx X Necromancer
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    Incap so you can sustain like a god. Maybe usesomething else for damage if you feel it isn't good enough.
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    I think I've settled on Soul Harvest.

    In order for it to land with any reliability (Incap or SH), you need your target to be stunned anyways, so the 120 stun on Incap becomes useless.

    Take away Incap's stun, and SH is clearly more powerful.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • ThePedge
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    I think I've settled on Soul Harvest.

    In order for it to land with any reliability (Incap or SH), you need your target to be stunned anyways, so the 120 stun on Incap becomes useless.

    Take away Incap's stun, and SH is clearly more powerful.

    Go for a Sharpened Greatsword. Mauls penetration won't buff Soul Harvest, but Sharpened and GS bonus will. Giving best results.

    A good set to pair with Soul Harvest is Affliction too. Heavy Armour though.
  • RiskyChalice863
    RiskyChalice863
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    So I just leveled my first NB (stamina) and am going to mostly BG with it. I want to run a morph of Death Stroke as my primary damage Ulti, so I am looking for some advice as to which I should choose. I'm not running any sets that would benefit one morph more than the other:

    If Incapacitating Strike:

    I'll get the stun with 120 Ult, and run a Nirnhoned 2H Maul. There is also a bit of added sustain.

    If Soul Harvest:

    I'll get Major Defile on every cast, but rely on Invisibility->Surprise attack for a stun. I'll run a Nirnhoned 2H Greatsword so my Ult still benefits from Heavy Weapons 2H passive, and I'll get 10 ult on every kill on my damage/front bar.

    Which do y'all think is better?

    You don’t really want to rely on the stun from Surprise Attack, though. If there’s AOEs around or people otherwise pulling you out of stealth, it can become essentially impossible to stun someone at all. In that scenario, if you run Soul Harvest, you won’t have any workable stun. With Incap, you would. Yes, there’s a cast time, but still. I find Incap actually lands fairly consistently when you use it out of stealth. So you can get your stun that way. The big difference between that and the Surprise Attack stun is that if you’re not in stealth right as you’re attacking, the Surprise Attack stun won’t work. So, with Incap, you can cloak to make your Incap more likely to land, but even if something pulls you out of stealth right before you use it, it’ll still stun.

    Also, I’m pretty sure that there are certain things on ults that don’t key off your highest stats. I’m not sure exactly what it is, but I suspect crit chance, crit damage, and/or penetration might not be based on your highest stats. In that case, you’re probably losing damage on the ult from using Soul Harvest. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about this particular issue could weigh in though, since I’m not certain of the exact mechanics there.

    Also, it’s worth noting that Reave is actually a lot of sustain for a Nightblade in PvP.

    I use Incap even on my Magblade in no-CP.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    So I just leveled my first NB (stamina) and am going to mostly BG with it. I want to run a morph of Death Stroke as my primary damage Ulti, so I am looking for some advice as to which I should choose. I'm not running any sets that would benefit one morph more than the other:

    If Incapacitating Strike:

    I'll get the stun with 120 Ult, and run a Nirnhoned 2H Maul. There is also a bit of added sustain.

    If Soul Harvest:

    I'll get Major Defile on every cast, but rely on Invisibility->Surprise attack for a stun. I'll run a Nirnhoned 2H Greatsword so my Ult still benefits from Heavy Weapons 2H passive, and I'll get 10 ult on every kill on my damage/front bar.

    Which do y'all think is better?

    You don’t really want to rely on the stun from Surprise Attack, though. If there’s AOEs around or people otherwise pulling you out of stealth, it can become essentially impossible to stun someone at all. In that scenario, if you run Soul Harvest, you won’t have any workable stun. With Incap, you would. Yes, there’s a cast time, but still. I find Incap actually lands fairly consistently when you use it out of stealth. So you can get your stun that way. The big difference between that and the Surprise Attack stun is that if you’re not in stealth right as you’re attacking, the Surprise Attack stun won’t work. So, with Incap, you can cloak to make your Incap more likely to land, but even if something pulls you out of stealth right before you use it, it’ll still stun.

    Also, I’m pretty sure that there are certain things on ults that don’t key off your highest stats. I’m not sure exactly what it is, but I suspect crit chance, crit damage, and/or penetration might not be based on your highest stats. In that case, you’re probably losing damage on the ult from using Soul Harvest. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about this particular issue could weigh in though, since I’m not certain of the exact mechanics there.

    Also, it’s worth noting that Reave is actually a lot of sustain for a Nightblade in PvP.

    I use Incap even on my Magblade in no-CP.

    Yeah, it didn't take me long to see that the Surprise Attack Stun from Invisible is very unreliable, so I've been using Turn Evil to stun before Soul Harvest.

    Ultis use your Highest Max Stat/Highest Damage Type/Highest Crit Chance to calculate damage and you only have one Critical Damage stat, but you do need the right type of penetration to go with the Ulti's damage type. That's why I run Soul Harvest with Greatsword and not Maul.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • artal
    artal
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    I tried both and soul harvest can be good option in certain scenarios for sure. But extra regen and stun grom incap is generaly better.
    Big issue of soul harvest is you cant really combo with it.
    Incap stun into bow Will land. Fear into soul harvest wont unless against bad player. I would argue that Fear, nb and fg one, are bad for stamblade ATM. Waste of gcd to let your oponent still dodge your hit
  • MurderMostFoul
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    artal wrote: »
    Incap stun into bow Will land.

    What is preventing them from dodging your Incap, though? I feel like Incap/Soul Harvest are so easy to avoid due to the cast time.

    With that said, I was running Soul Harvest, because it was better on paper. I was pairing it with NMA to maximize its scaling. So it was Turn Evil -> Soul Harvest -> (LA)Executioner... However, it has become clear that Mass Hysteria is (for whatever glitchy reason) harder to breakfree from than Turn Evil and makes the combo way more reliable. But I can't sustain NMA+Mass Hysteria. So I'm back to Spriggan's on my front bar, landing Incap very consistantly, and sustaining much better. So I don't get the major defile or the Ulti gen of Soul Harvest. But I do get to go back to 2H Maul. My BG performance has been strong on a more consistent basis since I made those changes.

    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • artal
    artal
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    Well incap is possible to sneak in the middle of combat, just like you can soul harvest but the difference is that after incap you can lad bow. And the other benefit is when attacking grom cloak. You can do heavy incap bow. Cant do the same on soul harvest.
    So in vacuum you can make case for both morph. But in combat incap Will allow you to land your burst easier.
    Fear, nb and fg one, are bad skills for nb atm
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