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What could they do to improve/Revamp the justice system? Your ideas and thoughts?
Thevampirenight
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I know the mmo factor makes or possibly limits them.
But with vampires and lycanthropes being added to it soon. I just feel as its unrealistic the way they are doing it. I mean werewolves every ability cast would be a new bounty added so to speak and the vampires the ones that should be criminal are mist form and blood scion.
The justice system to me feels so lack buster. Take a banana from Stonefalls a guard in Daggerfall comes up and says pay up. Yeah that is how bad it is and how unimmersive and unrealistic it is. I've got my ideas for how to maybe improve it down below but this thread is also about your ideas to improving it as well and hoping one day Zenimax Implements them once they get performance all good and dandy.
I mean Vampiric drain how would they be able to tell its a vampire ability how would everyone know this when most lore on vampires don't even mention this and any mage could do such an ability.
Werewolf if what they are doing with it what I think they are doing even not being spotted transforming you will still get a bounty using the abilties in towns if they never saw you take up the form how would they know its you committing crimes in that form and so forth. .
They did a very good job with the Necromancer all things considering.
But with the vampire and werewolf i thought it would have been done better and more realistic when it comes to the abilties and it does seem to be disappointing.
Werewolves how they should implement them in is being seen going into the form but also being seen going out of the form. That is how I would put them in the justice system.
Given it would be a hassle likely for being seen in a certain stage as a vampire and get a bounty for it it would be best if it didn't give you bounty. However how I would implement the criminal aspect would be by the lore of what a person would know realistically when it comes to vampiric abilties or if that ability looks not normal at all and very deadly like the blood scion form.
Blood Scion would be a type of transformation magic that turns you into a dangerous creature and mist form is a known vampiric ability. Those two should be criminal for those reasons.
I'm hoping one day for a dynamic justice system.
A system that adds not only bounties for doing acts but certain actions themselves leading up to suspicion a criminal act is being committed or about to be commited and the justice system responds to this. Say you have a skeletal bone dragon following you or riding on a undead horse just coming out of a lair with a skeleton following behind you these acts would give you suspicion that you could be a potential necromancer and when that suspicion gets to high you get a bounty. When you turn into a cloud of mist suspicion goes from no suspicion to high suspicion. Use vampiric drain or strife suspicion would go up not as much but still go up and if you cast these types of abilties to many times you get a bounty. Using night blade abilties can get you suspected of being an assassin and use to many of them like Shadow Cloak or assasination abilties and you would get marked as an assassin and get a bounty. Use some forms of shadow siphoning abilties to many times and might get suspected of being a Vampire for example. Just varies on what you do and what npcs can see you doing.
what Citizens would look out for,
Assassins and Thieves
Lycanthropes and vampires.
Necromancers.
If its suspected your an assassin(Nightblade) You get a high bounty and along with high heat and attacked on sight. If your suspected to be vampire get a bounty and get heat but not attack on sight heat unless its too obvious and for suspicion to commit theft maybe not given heat but get a bounty. The reason for this is the lessor of two evils what is worse the assassin or the thief or the lycanthrope or the vampire. So Lycanthrope and assassin would get higher tier heat and bounty because they are far worse threat to civilians. As Assassins could be working for groups like the Dark Brotherhood and Lycanthropes have the body meant to be a killing machine so that would be the reason why they would be higher crimes. Vampires and Theives are lessor of the two evils because of those and would be treated like this.
So there would be new crimes under this dynamic.
Suspected Assassin High crime High Heat.
Suspected Lycanthrope High Crime High Heat.
Suspected Vampire Mid tier crime gain moderate heat or high heat depending on the area and low heat if in Rivenspire.
Suspected Pickpocket lesser crime no heat to small amount of heat .
Suspected Necromancer Mid Tier Crime gain Moderate or high Heat depending on the area
Suspected Daedric Summoner unique crime only to Summerset along with having daedra summoned being a crime in those areas. Seen summoning a Daedra and non combat pets or pets from sorc skill tree that follow you would give you heat for this crime right here and if it goes all the way with the suspicion circle you get a bounty.
Rite of Theft pick pocking isn't a crime in Valenwood however if guards catch you doing it and use it on a non bosmer still get a bounty.
So by Dynamic I mean immersive, I would like to see it be more immersive and realistic and even with the suspicion system some npcs might have knowledge and know what to look for and if they spot it you get a bounty so one would have to be careful around those types of npcs. For example a priest of Arkay that knows what a vampire or their abilties look like for example a vampire would get a bounty just by being told they are one by such a priest. If they see vampiric drain or some other ability and call the alarm on this. If a guard sees you sneaking behind a person they know what you are doing and come to arrest you.
Someone with hounds that can sniff out a lycanthrope the dog barks and the dog owner alerts the guards to a suspected lycanthrope that sort of thing.
So the idea is well the justice system not only dynamic but also creative and realistic and one would expect to see with a justice system to begin with that would make assassins, theives, lycanthropes and vampires and necromancers have to be careful least they end up on the wrong side of the law. So what type of justice system do you want to see and what improvements can be made to fix how awful the justice system in this game is?
How would you improve it and what types of crimes would you add?
For example Cooking the Books and Grave Robbing.
How would you go about making the much needed revamp of the justice system?
Edited by Thevampirenight on April 5, 2020 4:30AM But with vampires and lycanthropes being added to it soon. I just feel as its unrealistic the way they are doing it. I mean werewolves every ability cast would be a new bounty added so to speak and the vampires the ones that should be criminal are mist form and blood scion.
The justice system to me feels so lack buster. Take a banana from Stonefalls a guard in Daggerfall comes up and says pay up. Yeah that is how bad it is and how unimmersive and unrealistic it is. I've got my ideas for how to maybe improve it down below but this thread is also about your ideas to improving it as well and hoping one day Zenimax Implements them once they get performance all good and dandy.
I mean Vampiric drain how would they be able to tell its a vampire ability how would everyone know this when most lore on vampires don't even mention this and any mage could do such an ability.
Werewolf if what they are doing with it what I think they are doing even not being spotted transforming you will still get a bounty using the abilties in towns if they never saw you take up the form how would they know its you committing crimes in that form and so forth. .
They did a very good job with the Necromancer all things considering.
But with the vampire and werewolf i thought it would have been done better and more realistic when it comes to the abilties and it does seem to be disappointing.
Werewolves how they should implement them in is being seen going into the form but also being seen going out of the form. That is how I would put them in the justice system.
Given it would be a hassle likely for being seen in a certain stage as a vampire and get a bounty for it it would be best if it didn't give you bounty. However how I would implement the criminal aspect would be by the lore of what a person would know realistically when it comes to vampiric abilties or if that ability looks not normal at all and very deadly like the blood scion form.
Blood Scion would be a type of transformation magic that turns you into a dangerous creature and mist form is a known vampiric ability. Those two should be criminal for those reasons.
I'm hoping one day for a dynamic justice system.
A system that adds not only bounties for doing acts but certain actions themselves leading up to suspicion a criminal act is being committed or about to be commited and the justice system responds to this. Say you have a skeletal bone dragon following you or riding on a undead horse just coming out of a lair with a skeleton following behind you these acts would give you suspicion that you could be a potential necromancer and when that suspicion gets to high you get a bounty. When you turn into a cloud of mist suspicion goes from no suspicion to high suspicion. Use vampiric drain or strife suspicion would go up not as much but still go up and if you cast these types of abilties to many times you get a bounty. Using night blade abilties can get you suspected of being an assassin and use to many of them like Shadow Cloak or assasination abilties and you would get marked as an assassin and get a bounty. Use some forms of shadow siphoning abilties to many times and might get suspected of being a Vampire for example. Just varies on what you do and what npcs can see you doing.
what Citizens would look out for,
Assassins and Thieves
Lycanthropes and vampires.
Necromancers.
If its suspected your an assassin(Nightblade) You get a high bounty and along with high heat and attacked on sight. If your suspected to be vampire get a bounty and get heat but not attack on sight heat unless its too obvious and for suspicion to commit theft maybe not given heat but get a bounty. The reason for this is the lessor of two evils what is worse the assassin or the thief or the lycanthrope or the vampire. So Lycanthrope and assassin would get higher tier heat and bounty because they are far worse threat to civilians. As Assassins could be working for groups like the Dark Brotherhood and Lycanthropes have the body meant to be a killing machine so that would be the reason why they would be higher crimes. Vampires and Theives are lessor of the two evils because of those and would be treated like this.
So there would be new crimes under this dynamic.
Suspected Assassin High crime High Heat.
Suspected Lycanthrope High Crime High Heat.
Suspected Vampire Mid tier crime gain moderate heat or high heat depending on the area and low heat if in Rivenspire.
Suspected Pickpocket lesser crime no heat to small amount of heat .
Suspected Necromancer Mid Tier Crime gain Moderate or high Heat depending on the area
Suspected Daedric Summoner unique crime only to Summerset along with having daedra summoned being a crime in those areas. Seen summoning a Daedra and non combat pets or pets from sorc skill tree that follow you would give you heat for this crime right here and if it goes all the way with the suspicion circle you get a bounty.
Rite of Theft pick pocking isn't a crime in Valenwood however if guards catch you doing it and use it on a non bosmer still get a bounty.
So by Dynamic I mean immersive, I would like to see it be more immersive and realistic and even with the suspicion system some npcs might have knowledge and know what to look for and if they spot it you get a bounty so one would have to be careful around those types of npcs. For example a priest of Arkay that knows what a vampire or their abilties look like for example a vampire would get a bounty just by being told they are one by such a priest. If they see vampiric drain or some other ability and call the alarm on this. If a guard sees you sneaking behind a person they know what you are doing and come to arrest you.
Someone with hounds that can sniff out a lycanthrope the dog barks and the dog owner alerts the guards to a suspected lycanthrope that sort of thing.
So the idea is well the justice system not only dynamic but also creative and realistic and one would expect to see with a justice system to begin with that would make assassins, theives, lycanthropes and vampires and necromancers have to be careful least they end up on the wrong side of the law. So what type of justice system do you want to see and what improvements can be made to fix how awful the justice system in this game is?
How would you improve it and what types of crimes would you add?
For example Cooking the Books and Grave Robbing.
How would you go about making the much needed revamp of the justice system?
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
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Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Some basic things can be implemented with very little person-hours:- Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".
- Heat for serious crimes like murder does not turn off, and stops your Bounty from ticking down.
- Wider reaction and accost radius for guards.
- More CC and pulls from Guards.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 5, 2020 7:59AM4 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Some basic things can be implemented with very little person-hours:- Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".
- Heat for serious crimes like murder does not turn off, and stops your Bounty from ticking down.
- Wider reaction and accost radius for guards.
- More CC and pulls from Guards.
The Guard Hive Mind makes it feel like a joke at times. But those could be something that could be implemented to help make it better. There is always room for improvements and maybe make the heat system go down a lot slower unless with passive to speed it up I can see that being a thing and no more sleep to become bounty free that would be something they could do as well. It would make bounties more meaningful and well I imagine would be something those that want to have over a billion bounties would really love to have.
Edited by Thevampirenight on April 5, 2020 8:05AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Take a banana from Stonefalls a guard in Daggerfall comes up and says pay up. Yeah that is how bad it is and how unimmersive and unrealistic it is.
Yes but it's complicated by fast travel options from Stonefalls to Daggerfall. If you had to walk, by the time you got there, your small banana bounty would have ticked down to nothing, probably.
If you had a bigger bounty, it's not unreasonable to say the guards have a mage that can communicate important information around, such as opening portals, which the mages guild does quite frequently -- but that's really just headcanon justifying what at ZOS's end is probably an abstraction for convenience. Trying to program something more complex would cost calculation time.
Sometimes we have to sacrifice a bit of immersion for bigger gains -- such as making the Justice System actually worth something.
Possibly have your Bounty tick down faster if it's small (like one banana), but slower if it's big (you stole a bunch of bananas from a bunch of merchants).
And a counter of your lifetime Bounty, such that whenever you get a Bounty, the more you had before, the bigger the Bounty you get, to represent your reputation and growing distrust and intolerance, "Wanted" Posters and warning rumors getting spread around, etcetera.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 5, 2020 8:47AM0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »Take a banana from Stonefalls a guard in Daggerfall comes up and says pay up. Yeah that is how bad it is and how unimmersive and unrealistic it is.
Yes but so is fast travel to Daggerfall. If you had to walk, by the time you got there, your small banana bounty would have ticked down to nothing, probably.
If you had a bigger bounty, it's not unreasonable to say the guards have a mage that can communicate important information around -- but that's really just headcanon justifying what at ZOS's end is probably an abstraction for convenience. Trying to program something more complex would cost calculation time.
Yeah I understand the calculation thing all to well that is why I wished they went more like an alliance based bounty they could put the various zones and dlc zones under. Maybe not for each zone but determining on what alliance the bounty was received in so a separate ad, ep and dc bounty. You leave without paying it and maybe have bounty hunter encounters that one has to run away from or defeat that are difficult and if they kill you they take that bounty to pay off that alliances bounty.
So that is something I would have personally done. I hope they one day do because it would be far more realistic to me. There is a three pronged war going on I don't think guards from Dc would care about a petty theft in Stonefalls but I do feel its to make it easier to manage but it just happens to be unrealistic. I can understand game play limitations. I just wished they went an extra mile with the system at least to have three versions to have that three way dynamic with the system. Instead of all of Tamriel knows about it.I'm hoping when they get performance all straightened out there could be a change that could allow for this and that way we could have a more realistic justice system that is alliance based and not the whole of Tamriel.
Edited by Thevampirenight on April 5, 2020 9:21AMPC NA
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Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »There is a three pronged war going on I don't think guards from Dc would care about a petty theft in Stonefalls but I do feel its to make it easier to manage but it just happens to be unrealistic.
The war is in Cyrodiil. My impression is that life goes on in the rest of the world. Merchants and such still have to make a living and can pass borders. Otherwise you couldn't pass into another alliance without being automatically an enemy.
If they did have alliance-specific bounties, then I think it'd be fair to have Bounties NOT tick down at all. Otherwise it'd be way too easy to avoid consequences, more than it is currently.
And Cyrodiil AP should pay off your Bounty first at some ratio that is higher if your Bounty is higher; because you are there not as a paid mercenary but a criminal paying off your debt to society. And you shouldn't be able to just walk out of Cyrodiil whenever you like -- you're basically in jail working off your Bounty, so why would they let you walk out? Add to your Bounty as an escapee instead.Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 5, 2020 8:57AM0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »There is a three pronged war going on I don't think guards from Dc would care about a petty theft in Stonefalls but I do feel its to make it easier to manage but it just happens to be unrealistic.
The war is in Cyrodiil. My impression is that life goes on in the rest of the world. Merchants and such still have to make a living and can pass borders. Otherwise you couldn't pass into another alliance without being automatically an enemy.
If they did have alliance-specific bounties, then I think it'd be fair to have Bounties NOT tick down at all. Otherwise it'd be way too easy to avoid consequences, more than it is currently.
And Cyrodiil AP should pay off your Bounty first at some ratio that is higher if your Bounty is higher; because you are there not as a paid mercenary but a criminal paying off your debt to society.
I can see them doing that with Cyrodiil but It would be neat if they did add a justice system to Cyrodiil and maybe make it unique there too. I mean there is many differant npcs that just stand in the towns other then mobs and maybe alliances could clear them out to maybe for a time help things down there when it comes to performance by not having as many clutter the map however with a cost that is the justice system making them pay for those acts. Also could add a new dynamic to Cyrodiil avoid that innocent shop keeper selling tomatos in this fort that the enemy alliance is occupying. Or get hunted by your own alliance guards that could even add to the war but those poor innocent Imperials
but would make for interesting war mechanics since it would be costly to accidentally damage and kill these innocent bystanders in the war. So it would make some think less with just spam spam spam aoe and attack and actually watch out for these types of npcs. A new war dynamic if you would think about it.
To Make it realistic and not optional these mechanics are not effected by turn off attack innocents and they won't be immune to any player damage unlike pve which would allow for that. These types of npcs can even be random encounters so one doesn't know when they would appear and thus have to watch out for them.
Given Imperial lore and their love for law and order it never made sense the justice system was not implemented to Cyrodiil.
I think it should be added to Cyrodiil and added as a new pvp obstacle one has to be wary of. I feel it would actually add to the experience personally. Maybe even help with lag also since there would be players that would be more careful down there and maybe not spam as much as to avoid hitting the Innocent Tomato Seller.Edited by Thevampirenight on April 5, 2020 9:20AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭- Removal of pointless accidental crimes - (tries to pixel hunt crafting station when there is billions of pets around and anciently steals a dagger).
- "Per zone" bounty system - if you have some bounty, authorities in other zones won't chase after you, unless you have very high amount of bounty.
- More "intelligent" bounty system - killing a witness of a crime will decrease your bounty (if no one saw that, that is).
- Disguise system - that will make you lose some amount of bounty if you change outfit after committing a crime (He was wearing a mask ! I did not recognized him ! )
- Same as above for upcoming WW changes - WW will be treated as criminal act. But it does not make sense if some one will see you in WW form and won't see you transforming into WW / back to human form. How the hell will they know that you are WW ? How will they be able to identify you ? In both cases, all bounty accumulated in WW form should decay very fast or disappear, if no one saw you transforming into WW/back to human shape.
- Ability to kill guards
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Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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So you just teleport to the house, leave a game in the background and play another game while the bounty decreases. The point of the change is essentially creating extra work for the developers for no good reason.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I like the justice system as it is now, but I would like a setting to prevent you from stealing items.
Would be awesome, if they would make some (extra strong) guards roam freely in the world. Which would engage you if you have a bounty, and happen to run into them.0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
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That's the penalty. One way or another you have to deal with it.
So you just teleport to the house, leave a game in the background and play another game while the bounty decreases. The point of the change is essentially creating extra work for the developers for no good reason.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".
Or they could continue to play the game and deal with the bounty.
Or pay it off.
Addons for PC but Console is as usual out of luck until the devs do something.I like the justice system as it is now, but I would like a setting to prevent you from stealing items.Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 5, 2020 9:52AM0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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The only difference with current situation is not having ESO on the background while doing something else. So what is the point?Dusk_Coven wrote: »
That's the penalty. One way or another you have to deal with it.
So you just teleport to the house, leave a game in the background and play another game while the bounty decreases. The point of the change is essentially creating extra work for the developers for no good reason.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".
Or they could continue to play the game and deal with the bounty.
Or pay it off.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh, boy. This is gonna be a long one... here we go:
Been there, posted that (twice, actually):Thevampirenight wrote: »How would you go about making the much needed revamp of the justice system?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/498004/for-great-justice-ii
Still smarting from loosing that particular argument, eh?Thevampirenight wrote: »I mean Vampiric drain how would they be able to tell its a vampire ability how would everyone know this when most lore on vampires don't even mention this and any mage could do such an ability.
But... you do have a point here that it would be better to have adynamic system rather then an "all or nothing" system that ignores some things and goes all out justice-stabby on anyone taking an apple from the vendor counter by mistake...
Well, some of it is, as much as vampire lovers might hate it... but generally, vampires having to take great care not to show "normal people" their vampireness or face an angry mob come after them with garlic, stakes and holy symbols of arkay... is pretty much a established thing in TES lore.Thevampirenight wrote: »But with the vampire and werewolf i thought it would have been done better and more realistic when it comes to the abilties and it does seem to be disappointing.
Agreed.Thevampirenight wrote: »Werewolves how they should implement them in is being seen going into the form but also being seen going out of the form.
Werewolves... should be automatic "kill on sight" when in furry form - without bounty conter tho, as they are already "monsters" in thaf form, yet none of their deeds would carry over to their human form, as long as noone knows who the werewolf is beneath the fur... and otherwise get a frigging -huge- bounty when transforming in either direction, as then they are spotted, recognized and people yell that this guy/gal is a frigging werewolf and the guard comes with their silver blades while assuming that ALL the monstery misdeeds happening is the werewolves fault...
Nah.Thevampirenight wrote: »Given it would be a hassle likely for being seen in a certain stage as a vampire and get a bounty for it it would be best if it didn't give you bounty.
In fact, I think all vampires should have a chance of being recognized as bloodsucking fiends Every time thers show their undead-ish faces to normal people!
But... I also think they should have some option to, uhm, "masquerade" as mortals so that don't happen. Be is a skill that when toggled reduces their appearent vampire level by one (and this at level 1 would make them look completely mortal), or some magic ring that has the same effect and can be gained through some sidequest...
...both with drawbacks that they would take up an active skill slot of jewelry slot for that effect.
Agreed.Thevampirenight wrote: »I'm hoping one day for a dynamic justice system.
Oh, I would love to see that for a LOT of pets in town!Thevampirenight wrote: »Say you have a skeletal bone dragon following you or riding on a undead horse just coming out of a lair with a skeleton following behind you these acts would give you suspicion that you could be a potential necromancer and when that suspicion gets to high you get a bounty.
More like, to "certainty". Who else turns into mist but vampires after all?? Noone else, that's who!Thevampirenight wrote: »When you turn into a cloud of mist suspicion goes from no suspicion to high suspicion.
Nope again. Use vampire skills in sight of normies, get the full "kill teh bloodsucking fiend!" package.Thevampirenight wrote: »Use vampiric drain or strife suspicion would go up not as much but still go up and if you cast these types of abilties to many times you get a bounty.
Nope. Because unlike with vampire skills where -being- a vampire is a moral offense, skills that could be used in assassinations are not by themselves a crime unless you actually assassinate anyone. Not like there aren't tons of other people who'd use the very same skills on occasion... be it thieves, spies (and you do remember each alliance has their own spy organization, yes) or sorcerous private investigatos who might use a dark cloak skill to be unseen, or mages studying illusion spells and sneaking out after shad astula curfew for a couple glasses of sujamma...Thevampirenight wrote: »Using night blade abilties can get you suspected of being an assassin and use to many of them like Shadow Cloak or assasination abilties and you would get marked as an assassin and get a bounty.
The one "assassin skill" that IS bounty worthy... would be "blade of woe". And that already is bountyfied if you let someone spot you using it.
..that I could see happening, actually. Though it would be cleared up as soon as the guard stops and checks your character... would be a fun and immersive micro encounter tho!Thevampirenight wrote: »Use some forms of shadow siphoning abilties to many times and might get suspected of being a Vampire for example.
Actually, no. Even in the midle ages, the guard could not attack people on sight for being a "suspected" anything. As for assassins... first they would have a body to show an assassination had taken place. THEN they might round up any suspects to find "whodunnit"...Thevampirenight wrote: »If its suspected your an assassin(Nightblade) You get a high bounty and along with high heat and attacked on sight.
...hmmm...
...actually, there might be an idea here.
Like,,, if your character -does- assassinate someone... and manages not to be seen... THAT would set all the guards on "suspiscious" state, at which point they might look for any "shady characters"... and if you -then- do anything extra suspiscious (or wear dark a brotherhood outfit)... they might stop you for questioning, have a chance to notice the blood splatters on your jerkin and go bounty...
...maybe a bit too involved, but it would be fun and immersive!
Actually, anyone suspected of being a vampire or werewolf would be the -first- to be attacked on sight! At least by anyone not cowering in fear before the "monster".Thevampirenight wrote: »If your suspected to be vampire get a bounty and get heat but not attack on sight heat unless its too obvious
Of course, its more likely they would first be stopped and tested to make sure. "Here, hold this silver-wrought holy symbol of arkay, if it burns you... we will know..." with the vampire getting a choice of grabbing the thing (get holy damage and Kill-on-sight), attacking the guards (KoS), or... using a persuade option to talk their way out of it somehow? (though unlike the normal persuade options, this one ought to have a success chance, and thus could fail depending on the die roll)
Exactly.Thevampirenight wrote: »The reason for this is the lessor of two evils what is worse the assassin or the thief or the lycanthrope or the vampire.
Thieves are criminals, but less of a threat. No need to kill them, just arrest them and let justice (or bribery) take its course.
Assassins are generally more of a threat, but at least usually follow their own code of honor and only go after their mark and not innocent bystanders (unless they are the worst sort of player characters I suppose). And anyhow, they might actually be in town on behest of some noble lord to pick up a contract and not to kill anyone, which might be iffy for a guard who interferes. And even they deserve a fair trial when they do get caught actually assassinating someone in town, just to make sure, followed by a first class hangin'...
Vampires and werewolves tho? Those are EVIL MONSTERS! Monsters hiding in human skin! They are not even human/elves/mortal, they see all humans as bloodbags/chewtoys to snack on, they sustain themselves by drinking the blood / devouring the flesh of innocents, they have almost certainly murdered scores of people each month to satisfy their unnatural hungers, and thus must be killed Right Now before they murder some of the well hidden cellar children or whatever...
See where this goes?
Yeah, it actually -would- make sense for any daedric summonings to be a criminal act in Alinor and Auridion (and maybe some altmer villages outside the summerset isles, like Marbruk) -only-. Wics we could get that added into the game system...Thevampirenight wrote: »Suspected Daedric Summoner unique crime only to Summerset...
...is actually not that much for pickpocketing, but more for burglary. And only applies if you steal the thing -without- getting caught... which means, avoiding the bounty to start with! So, nope in this regard.Thevampirenight wrote: »Rite of Theft
But it'd be fun if you could exchange stuff stolen in bosmer homes for something else then just fencing them as "rite of theft" resolution... like, if you successful steal the thing marked "prized possession", you get a quest marker at the owner where you can turn it in for some other reward... not gold, but, say, a random request. Could be an item - with a chance of getting something interesting, or a crafting bag, or something else entirely...
If you can come up with a way to tell them apart from the intended crimes, where a sneaky thief wanted to steal that dagger..Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- Removal of pointless accidental crimes - (tries to pixel hunt crafting station when there is billions of pets around and anciently steals a dagger).
This is not a justice system issue, but a environmental issue. Replace all the "easily accidental" stealables with non-interactable "decoration only" pieces, and we wouldn't have this problem.
Or just look before you click.
Something to deconstruct the "guard hivemind" at least. Maybe not zone-based, but at least restricted to alliance...Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- "Per zone" bounty system - if you have some bounty, authorities in other zones won't chase after you, unless you have very high amount of bounty.
Since the guards clearly can even ask the spirit of the departed (remember that quest in Summerset?), that one is right where it works. Only if you can keep the victim from glimsping you while you crime can you avoid the bounties.Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- More "intelligent" bounty system - killing a witness of a crime will decrease your bounty (if no one saw that, that is).
Would be neat. And dark brothers can get a disguise that can help...Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- Disguise system - that will make you lose some amount of bounty if you change outfit after committing a crime (He was wearing a mask ! I did not recognized him ! )
But that could be expanded with more disguises that temporarily let you walk around with a negated bounty...
Yeah, there should be a mechanic for that.Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- Same as above for upcoming WW changes - WW will be treated as criminal act. But it does not make sense if some one will see you in WW form and won't see you transforming into WW / back to human form. How the hell will they know that you are WW ? How will they be able to identify you ? In both cases, all bounty accumulated in WW form should decay very fast or disappear, if no one saw you transforming into WW/back to human shape.
Like... two bounty meters, one for the human form, one for the WW form... and if you are seen transforming either way, the bopunties get added.
Yeah, riiiiight.Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »- Ability to kill guards
I mean, I would prefer guards to be killable myself, and instead just have a "Stendarrs binding chains of justice" spell that just arrests anyone who tries to kill them... but... eh. I can see why they did it the cheap way... as annoyingly non-immersive it can be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8tYE4daL54
Agreed.I like the justice system as it is now, but I would like a setting to prevent you from stealing items.
I also would love to see an option to "surrender" when some civilian starts attacking indoors you after you got caught crime-ing, rather then adding murder-in-self-defense to your rap sheet...
I know, right?Would be awesome, if they would make some (extra strong) guards roam freely in the world. Which would engage you if you have a bounty, and happen to run into them. (see above)
Edited by TheShadowScout on April 5, 2020 1:42PM2 -
sekou_trayvond✭✭✭✭✭I'd suggest all of you naughty criminals that get caught get thrown into a prison/free for all instance. Make you all fight each other, guards, etc with nice rewards tied to it and whatnot. Real Thunderdome-type type situation in there. Of course, put a modest timer on it to allow players not interested in the mayhem to simply time out their time served, as it were.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is an interesting discussion. One thing I would like to see is when you do get caught by the guards why do you have to return all of the stolen items in your possession as opposed to the items you actually got caught stealing? How does The guard know that you stole the other things if there is nobody to report it? I’ve been carrying around some items for days from Kari’s hit list. Been avoiding the TG dailies because I’ve been too lazy to drop off the items but also extra careful not to steal anything in caseI get caught.
Have had is issue with NPC shopkeepers ghosting on me and accidentally swiping an item of the table from time to time as well. I k of people say be careful but stealing a useless white dagger off the table was not my intent. All I want to do is unload this pile other useless loot!1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
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The only difference with current situation is not having ESO on the background while doing something else. So what is the point?Dusk_Coven wrote: »
That's the penalty. One way or another you have to deal with it.
So you just teleport to the house, leave a game in the background and play another game while the bounty decreases. The point of the change is essentially creating extra work for the developers for no good reason.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".
Or they could continue to play the game and deal with the bounty.
Or pay it off.
Sleep to Win means your bounty ticks down during your non-play time. And you do get automatically logged out if you afk too long.
Seriously if you can't handle the existing joke of a justice system that you need any form of Sleep to Win, you should play another game.Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 6, 2020 12:03AM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭sekou_trayvond wrote: »I'd suggest all of you naughty criminals that get caught get thrown into a prison/free for all instance. Make you all fight each other, guards, etc with nice rewards tied to it and whatnot. Real Thunderdome-type type situation in there. Of course, put a modest timer on it to allow players not interested in the mayhem to simply time out their time served, as it were.
Maybe Cyrodiil? And you can only leave when your Bounty ticks down from AP gains or you pay up?Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Have had is issue with NPC shopkeepers ghosting on me and accidentally swiping an item of the table from time to time as well. I k of people say be careful but stealing a useless white dagger off the table was not my intent. All I want to do is unload this pile other useless loot!
Yeah I really don't like the accidental pickup. Like in Vivec at the writ turn-in. There's this NPC that walks back and forth and can bump you, so that your cursor moves onto an item just when you click...Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 5, 2020 11:51PM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Would be awesome, if they would make some (extra strong) guards roam freely in the world. Which would engage you if you have a bounty, and happen to run into them.
In the single player games, roads were patrolled by guards who could actually accost you. Don't see why not here.TheShadowScout wrote: »I also would love to see an option to "surrender" when some civilian starts attacking indoors you after you got caught crime-ing, rather then adding murder-in-self-defense to your rap sheet...
Which I think could be quite easily implemented by checking if you put away your weapon and stop moving.
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Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stage 4 vampires and transformed Werewolves should be considered trespassers in cities. So they get a bounty whenever someone sees them, not just whenever they use a skill.
Bounties should be separate wherever it makes sense, so a Dominion guard won't arrest you for a crime committed in the Pact or Covenant.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭They could start by removing stealable clutter from around Writ turn in boxes :'("You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Or by simply giving enraged civilians the same "stop and deliver" pre-combat dialouge as city guards, giving your characters a chance to explain that they took the dagger by mistake, give it back and pay a fine (bribe?) to resolve the matter, at which the civilian goes like "okay, now get out of my sight..." instead of forcing a confrontation where it ends up in our inept thieves killing said civilian if it happens where they cannot just run away...Dusk_Coven wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »I also would love to see an option to "surrender" when some civilian starts attacking indoors you after you got caught crime-ing, rather then adding murder-in-self-defense to your rap sheet...
Which I think could be quite easily implemented by checking if you put away your weapon and stop moving.
And as mentioned, replace it with non-stealable decorations of the same flavor to keep up appearances... we know that is possible, since in several other places/instances they have lots of non-stealable clutter lying around!They could start by removing stealable clutter from around Writ turn in boxes :'(
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Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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Is is not hard to move your mouse once per 15 minutes. I've been playing both Live and PTS at the same time so I know how to do it (especially easy in the borderless window mode). Your proposal will change nothing to the end user. Now people log off to clear bounty, with your changes people will keep game active with character in the house with minimum activity while effectively logged off. At the same time this changing nothing requires extra work of the developer. Given the current state of servers it is also better to just let players log off than insist on keeping them online in afk state.Dusk_Coven wrote: »
The only difference with current situation is not having ESO on the background while doing something else. So what is the point?Dusk_Coven wrote: »
That's the penalty. One way or another you have to deal with it.
So you just teleport to the house, leave a game in the background and play another game while the bounty decreases. The point of the change is essentially creating extra work for the developers for no good reason.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Bounties do not tick down when you are offline -- no more "sleep to win".
Or they could continue to play the game and deal with the bounty.
Or pay it off.
Sleep to Win means your bounty ticks down during your non-play time. And you do get automatically logged out if you afk too long.
Seriously if you can't handle the existing joke of a justice system that you need any form of Sleep to Win, you should play another game.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
Sengra✭✭✭Not lock so many of the houses (Elsweyr). I mean the kind of lock you can't work around.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Would be nice to be able to kill guards. When you get them to 0% health they're still "alive" and have their regular mechanics.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would be nice to be able to kill guards. When you get them to 0% health they're still "alive" and have their regular mechanics.
Oh you want these stolen bananas? Fight me!
Or maybe a mechanic where playing with a buddy they can distract the guards so you can slip past. Or the option to bribe a passer by to distract the guard for a fraction of the bounty cost.0 -
ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stage 4 vampires and transformed Werewolves should be considered trespassers in cities. So they get a bounty whenever someone sees them, not just whenever they use a skill.
Bounties should be separate wherever it makes sense, so a Dominion guard won't arrest you for a crime committed in the Pact or Covenant.
I agree whole heartily with this.
And I say that as someone who intends to remain at stage 4.
It should be a criminal act to be a monster, and it is so by lore already. It should be by gameplay too.Nighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Granted, I saw the length of it and barely skimmed it. IMHO we don't need some serious hardcore definitive justice system. It's not supposed to be the central theme of the game. Ya got fat, donut eating cops - otherwise, why would they be so easy to run away from ? - who have a global communication network within the police. So when you get caught (which IS a prerequisite - its not simply steal and automatically get a bounty ), they know who you are and send out a bolo to all other police across the globe. Which also has a time limit.
Its not a big deal and IMHO it doesn't need to Be a big deal.
IMHO
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