Frustration in Growing my Guild

Grezlord · March 2020

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.

The first two issues I can't help, but for the last one, I get that we can all be in multiple guilds, but as a newer, smaller guild trying to get established and make a name for ourselves, its hard because everyone wants to focus more on the already established guilds they're in which means we can make much headway.

Our guild has a discord, we schedule weekly activities, have a guild house everyone to decorate, staff try to stay involved with the members, we seek member input, and we're pretty much doing everything we can to lead by example, stay active ourselves as a staff and get things done. But because people have other guilds or don't care to be as active as we like, we are constantly having to cancel events, people have no idea that they can do different things with us such as decorate the house, they dont even know we have events cuz they're always on the other guild discords or game chats, and it really hurts us and keeps us from growing the way we want to and getting more stuff done. For example, we can't get groups going for Trials because everyone runs trials with their other guilds, so they dont know we're doing them or dont want to.

As a Leader it frustrates me because I'm doing everything possible to get members, be activie, do events, and other stuff but it feels like no one really cares to be involved, play their part in the succcess and growth, expect me to DO IT ALL, and have an unrealistic expectation of how soon things should happen, or how often. For example, I have to wipe 90% of my roster because they thought I should basically be online 24/7 even though when I advertise and talk to people about joining, I explicitly tell them that I work, have a family, real life is always first and we're midcore, so while we're not the most "hardcore" guild, we do expect everyone to contribute, do their part, be active, be part of the effort, etc etc so we can achieve common goals. And everyone says "Okay" but then after they're in, they leave quickly or dont live up to the expectations.

We've been around for about 3 months, and still haven't been able to get regular Trial group going, regular weekly events, or been able to boast a strong activie community because no one except myself and the staff are showing any kind of willingness to be involved. So I'm not sure what more I can do. I can't force people to be involved and contribute and focus more on us. I just want our guild to be as active and established as the guilds they put before us. If no one is willing to join and actually "be here" and "be active", then how else am I suppose to grow it? I am tired of canceling events cuz no one signs up or dont show up. Like why make events if no one is willing to participate? And I do make sure I ask their availability to even do stuff before I create them.

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

So all in all, if I've done everything possible to make my guild grow and be established but no one cares, even after restarting/rebuilding my roster, what else can I do? How can I make a guild, grow it, and keep everyone focused on THIS guild and actually give it its fair share of time? Any tips or advice?

worrallj · March 2020

I sympathize, and I have been the type you're complaining about quite a few times.

One thought: have a target audience. Newbs, pros, pvpers, RPers, zone chat lurkers, etc. If I were in your shoes I'd pick one of those and try to design everything about the guild around that. Then people who don't fit that category will still leave, but when you run across someone from your target audience you have a much higher chance to snag them.

RD065 · March 2020

I only joined one guild and it was an accident someone sent me an invite while I was in mid jump so I accidentally accepted that. Not sure if you randomly invite but some don't like that, I certainly don't.

Lixiviant · March 2020

Well, as being the leader of a guild in the past I can relate to your problems. Seems like you are covering all the bases, but the biggest thing that prevents me from participating with some of the events in my current guilds are when the events happen. Guilds that catch my attention are ones that have Beginning/Trial dungeon runs and stuff that new people will actually join and not feel like they will be dissed. I like to help others but if I'm playing with a new build, I like to know I'll be welcome.

Good luck and if I have a slot for another guild, I'll check yours' out!

Grezlord · March 2020

RD065 wrote: »

I only joined one guild and it was an accident someone sent me an invite while I was in mid jump so I accidentally accepted that. Not sure if you randomly invite but some don't like that, I certainly don't.

I never randomly invite people. I throw out my ads in zone chat, use the ESO forums, and Reddit to recruit. Everyone always comes to me to join, which confuses me even more.

RD065 · March 2020

Grezlord wrote: »

RD065 wrote: »

I only joined one guild and it was an accident someone sent me an invite while I was in mid jump so I accidentally accepted that. Not sure if you randomly invite but some don't like that, I certainly don't.

I never randomly invite people. I throw out my ads in zone chat, use the ESO forums, and Reddit to recruit. Everyone always comes to me to join, which confuses me even more.

That's good to here.

Royaji · March 2020

Simple. Too wide of a target audience. Some of the more successful guilds in the game are monofocused ones. Ever heard of "jack-of-all trades, master of none"? Instead of having one "social" guild which does a little bit of everything many prefer to have five highly specialized guilds. In the end you can have the same variety of events but with much higher quality.

If you goal is housing, make a housing guild and only deal with housing stuff. If you want trials, trials should be your focus. Mixing all of it together leaves you hemorrhaging players to more focused guild. This trial player will immediately drop you down on their priority list once they see an advertisement for some housing or overland event in guild chat and vice versa.

FierceSam · March 2020

Hey dude,

It sounds to me like you’re doing all the right things.

The only thing I might suggest is that you become a little more selective in recruiting. Your USP should be ‘Do you want to help build a community’ rather than ‘hey this is a place where everything happens’.

I think 3 months is a relatively short time for a guild to establish itself.. keep it up and don’t loose your enthusiasm.

The other thing I would absolutely recommend is that you ask your members (especially those who leave) for their feedback and ideas for improvement. Make sure they know that it’s just for the purpose of improving the guild and hopefully you’ll get a lot of responses. Be prepared for the feedback to be both complementary and critically honest. This will be far more informative for you than anything most of us can suggest.

Good luck and have fun.

Raisin · March 2020

It honestly sounds like you're offering a lot of great things.

You're definitely not gonna rake in masses. I mean you are right now, and many guilds have these kind of members and they're great and some will be more active and others. But because I can't think of a better way to express it, I will say that they are... filler. For the kind of impactful guild growth you want, you go one by one. I know that people worry about cliques, but any active guild has its core members -- not ones that are special, but ones that make up the heart of the guild. And that part is all about just clicking with the others and making personal connections. Obviously these come from things like the events you try to organise. And you can't force anyone to participate, so how much of this is in your power I don't know. And I also don't wanna tell you to like..play favorites or anything, that's stupid. But you need to look at the social circles of your guild and see how they function. Who is the heart of your guild? Those are the people who other members need to feel a connection to. Those are the people they need to have a good time with. Your network needs a basis. Honestly outside of really hardcore endgame raiding where it's 100% about skill, and trading guilds with a good system in place... Your guild's success depends on people enjoying each other's company, IMO. As you said, there is competition. They can either do these events with you, or someone else, and if you want it to be you, you gotta be where friends hang out together. I don't think just running it as a working organsation is enough.
I know you probably know this, and it may not be the most useful advice... but it's all I can think of.

As said above, find the right people for your guild. It's not about making the wrong people be active with you, it's about finding a good fit. Targetting people looking for something specific and then being very proactive in providing that thing for them fast will definitely help. I guess if your guild chat isn't active this won't be much help, but try listening out for what people seem to be needing. Maybe people still need to farm a trial for gear. CR and SS are places a lot of people still need stuff from. And this might just be my own personal taste, but I always get hooked on the more 'out there' stuff as far as running anything concerned. An all-nightblade run. A no armor run, no CP run, fist-fight run. 6 people run a normal trial together. This kind of stuff if hilarious and provides bonding experiences. Maybe you've already tried events like these, but the general idea is to think out of the box I guess. I understand though that all of this is also difficult to get going when no one is really willing to put themselves out there. You really need some people that are that solid base of these events to pull others in. Requires a lot of energy to get people excited about your guild's stuff.

So yeah, sorry if it's not really a solution per se. But uh.. human social, make personal connection. And stuff.

Saucy_Jack · March 2020

As someone who started a bank guild Snugglorr-centric cult, I would also caution against swinging too far the other way on the pendulum; while having too broad of a guild definition can be detrimental, having too narrow a focus is also detrimental.

Also, don't overestimate the number of ESO players who are interested in ritual worship of the god of the RNG. *shrug*

oxygen_thief · March 2020

Grezlord wrote: »

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

i joined to a guild because of a trader and a hall with stations and mundus stones. i dont participate in any events and i dont know do they even hold them because ive never been in their discord. i dont communicate with anyone and i have "no thank you" addon which mutes guild notifications. if my guild loses trader i can join to any other for a week to sell my stuff

Matchimus · March 2020

Quality not quantity.

Edit - my fav ever guild only had 10 or so active members. Close knit. Supported each other with content.

IndianaJames7 · March 2020

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, put an emphasis on recruiting new to the game players. New players experiencing content for the first time are much more likely to get engaged, talk in chat and want to group for activities. A lot of vets have done everything there is to do and even if they spend a lot of time online, are not necessarily being super involved with any individual guild.

Taleof2Cities · March 2020

@Grezlord:

This is the kind of player you want and should target:

Matchimus wrote: »

Quality not quantity.

Edit - my fav ever guild only had 10 or so active members. Close knit. Supported each other with content.

This is the kind of player you should boot out on the street (since they don't usually make their guild minimum requirements):

oxygen_thief wrote: »

i joined to a guild because of a trader and a hall with stations and mundus stones. i dont participate in any events and i dont know do they even hold them because ive never been in their discord. i dont communicate with anyone and i have "no thank you" addon which mutes guild notifications. if my guild loses trader i can join to any other for a week to sell my stuff

Danikat · March 2020

Taking this from the perspective of a potential guild member my question is how much of this activity happens, and can be seen, within ESO? Do you use in-game guild chat to talk to each other? Do you put events in the message of the day? (And no I don't mean a never-changed note saying to check Discord to see what's happening.) Do you remind players in-game when an event is starting?

I've encountered far too many guilds who might well have a lot going on, but it all happens on Discord. I have Discord, I use it when I need to but I won't join a new guilds Discord right away because I want to get to know them a bit and see if I'm going to stick around and therefore if it's worth going through the hassle of getting it set up and making sure my phone isn't going to go off every time someone sneezes, but I will be notified when something worth knowing about happens. (Which could be easy to do or virtually impossible, depending on how the Discord channel is set up.)

If I join a new guild and no one's talking in guild chat in the game, and I have to go and join again through a different program just to find out what's happening then from my perspective it's a dead guild and I'm not likely to stick around long...or if I don't need the guild slot I might not bother to leave right away, but sooner or later I'm going to give up on trying to talk to people who clearly aren't interested.

I know that sounds pretty cynical, but you have to bear in mind friendly PVX guilds who hold assorted events are very easy to find. There were probably 5 others advertising at the same time you were and with little/no way to choose between them it was probably random chance that they joined your guild and not a different one. At that point your new members have no ties or commitment to the guild and many, many other options. The harder you make it to join in and feel included the more likely they are to decide it's not worth the hassle and leave.

remilafo · March 2020

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.

The first two issues I can't help, but for the last one, I get that we can all be in multiple guilds, but as a newer, smaller guild trying to get established and make a name for ourselves, its hard because everyone wants to focus more on the already established guilds they're in which means we can make much headway.

Our guild has a discord, we schedule weekly activities, have a guild house everyone to decorate, staff try to stay involved with the members, we seek member input, and we're pretty much doing everything we can to lead by example, stay active ourselves as a staff and get things done. But because people have other guilds or don't care to be as active as we like, we are constantly having to cancel events, people have no idea that they can do different things with us such as decorate the house, they dont even know we have events cuz they're always on the other guild discords or game chats, and it really hurts us and keeps us from growing the way we want to and getting more stuff done. For example, we can't get groups going for Trials because everyone runs trials with their other guilds, so they dont know we're doing them or dont want to.

As a Leader it frustrates me because I'm doing everything possible to get members, be activie, do events, and other stuff but it feels like no one really cares to be involved, play their part in the succcess and growth, expect me to DO IT ALL, and have an unrealistic expectation of how soon things should happen, or how often. For example, I have to wipe 90% of my roster because they thought I should basically be online 24/7 even though when I advertise and talk to people about joining, I explicitly tell them that I work, have a family, real life is always first and we're midcore, so while we're not the most "hardcore" guild, we do expect everyone to contribute, do their part, be active, be part of the effort, etc etc so we can achieve common goals. And everyone says "Okay" but then after they're in, they leave quickly or dont live up to the expectations.

We've been around for about 3 months, and still haven't been able to get regular Trial group going, regular weekly events, or been able to boast a strong activie community because no one except myself and the staff are showing any kind of willingness to be involved. So I'm not sure what more I can do. I can't force people to be involved and contribute and focus more on us. I just want our guild to be as active and established as the guilds they put before us. If no one is willing to join and actually "be here" and "be active", then how else am I suppose to grow it? I am tired of canceling events cuz no one signs up or dont show up. Like why make events if no one is willing to participate? And I do make sure I ask their availability to even do stuff before I create them.

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

So all in all, if I've done everything possible to make my guild grow and be established but no one cares, even after restarting/rebuilding my roster, what else can I do? How can I make a guild, grow it, and keep everyone focused on THIS guild and actually give it its fair share of time? Any tips or advice?

I join guilds for the free teleports.

Lixiviant · March 2020

@Grezlord Thinking about what keeps me in a guild might help you.

1. Message of the day. That way I know the Guild is active and they keep you informed.
2. A calendar of weekly events. So I know how to plan my week and see if the events fit my schedule. It also lets me make suggestions to help with future events.
3. A Guild Trader is nice, but I don't join a Guild specifically for that. I join to have fun and learn something, and hopefully, add something to the Guild.
4. If the events are always held in the evening, try seeing if holding an event on the weekend in the morning pulls in more people. I always play in the morning, and that would work for me.
5. Be sure to have events for beginners!
6. And lastly, delegate! Have others head up events so you aren't overloaded and reward them with a rank or ? Also, just have fun!

Respect4Elders · March 2020

Advertise as a trading guild with no weekly dues with a trader in Elden Root and you should be good to go.

snoozy · March 2020

i feel your struggle.

as others have mentioned, the most important factor that keeps people in your guild is a personal connection to people who are regularly active, know each other, and are welcoming and interested in interaction.
don't stress about numbers too much. get an active, tight-nit circle of core members and expand from there.

a lot of people only come for the following, and i have also been guilty of that - you can't keep up with 5 social guilds at once.
so often you get members like this:

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Grezlord wrote: »

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

i joined to a guild because of a trader and a hall with stations and mundus stones. i dont participate in any events and i dont know do they even hold them because ive never been in their discord. i dont communicate with anyone and i have "no thank you" addon which mutes guild notifications. if my guild loses trader i can join to any other for a week to sell my stuff

snoozy · March 2020

Respect4Elders wrote: »

Advertise as a trading guild with no weekly dues with a trader in Elden Root and you should be good to go.

i'm sold, send me an invite

xXMeowMeowXx · March 2020

Weekly Trader - All Crafting Stations - No Dues, Donation Based - Trials Group - PVP sister guild - etc,....

Even with all this, people don’t always stay but they are quickly replaced.

Guilds are a lot of work if you make them work. It is best to play with people you enjoy playing with and that have like minded goals.

Sounds to me that you expect too much from strangers.

Good Luck @Grezlord

Grezlord · March 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Weekly Trader - All Crafting Stations - No Dues, Donation Based - Trials Group - PVP sister guild - etc,....

Even with all this, people don’t always stay but they are quickly replaced.

Guilds are a lot of work if you make them work. It is best to play with people you enjoy playing with and that have like minded goals.

Sounds to me that you expect too much from strangers.

Good Luck @Grezlord

I dont expect too much from strangers. I expect that anyone who reads the advertisement, contacts me about joining, and says they like what they read and want to be part of it, to actually do just that. Be part of it. Dont say you want to join and that you're cool with everything you read but then not live up to it. Its a waste of both mine and your time. If I read an ad and join a guild, I'm going to do whats expected because thats what I signed up for. Otherwise, what was the point?

Drdeath20 · March 2020

When i join a guild its because i felt like their mission statement and goals aligned closely with mine. The minute i feel the opposite I leave.

Wolfchild07 · March 2020

Personally, I would like to be able to use the guild finder effectively to find members, but it's so bare bones that it's not worth using anymore.

After being listed for a while you fall off the first page, and there's no second page. Why? Then you have guilds listed before you without even having a banner created. There's also the problem of not enough filters. People can't search for werewolf/vampire, family friendly, other important keywords.

Guild finder should have alot more options, I shouldn't have to spam in zone chat to find people.

Nestor · March 2020

I started my own guild, Old Hippies. I thought about making it an active guild, but, no one posted an application to the guild. Not sure if anyone even looked.

So i loaded up a few Account numbers from CEs and bought a few copies of the game and now i have 9 Alt Accounts. Note we players on the PC can't create accounts willy nilly.

I am not sure how active i will make the guild, but at least i will always have a bank.

barney2525 · March 2020

IMHO

One of the main issues you will face is the Primary reason players look for guilds. These reasons differ. A Lot of players are looking for guilds just to be able to sell items. No guild, No selling (unless you consider shouting to the limited area you are in 'selling' )

IF it were Not a requirement to be in a guild to be able to sell items, you would probably be able to find a lot more players who were Looking for a guild to do content with.

Again, IMHO

Mr_Walker · March 2020

Royaji wrote: »

Simple. Too wide of a target audience. Some of the more successful guilds in the game are monofocused ones. Ever heard of "jack-of-all trades, master of none"? Instead of having one "social" guild which does a little bit of everything many prefer to have five highly specialized guilds. In the end you can have the same variety of events but with much higher quality.

If you goal is housing, make a housing guild and only deal with housing stuff. If you want trials, trials should be your focus. Mixing all of it together leaves you hemorrhaging players to more focused guild. This trial player will immediately drop you down on their priority list once they see an advertisement for some housing or overland event in guild chat and vice versa.

^^^^

Also, if you are doing content that's your focus, say dungeons, and you see other good players running dungeons (yea, pug occasionally, slum a bit), flick them an invite, chances are they are looking to do that sort of content.

NeeScrolls · March 2020

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully maintaining an "active" guild makeup.

My main issues:

As a Leader it frustrates me because I'm doing everything possible to get members, be activie, do events, and other stuff but it feels like no one really cares to be involved, play their part in the succcess and growth, expect me to DO IT ALL,

I'm late to this thread but just wanted to say to the OP: i feel your gamer-pain! Especially that ^ bold part yep. But i mean, there's really not much you can do about that tbh, since RL comes first and heck you only have so much time to play as life (and sleep lol ) allows.

So i gave up long ago at trying to be the GM and the Zenimax content-creator too. Just focus on FUN and the rest will follow.

Currently, my real "problem" is: How many more weeks in-a-row will my public-guild-trader NPC bids keep failing?

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · March 2020

Probably not telling you something you already don't know but I feel that the behavior you are seeing is a byproduct of the games 'multi guild' system.It changes the dynamic of what being in a guild means and I've always found it detrimental to forming meaningful bonds ingame.

Most people will feel some sense of loyalty to the first guild they join, so focusing on recruiting new or returning players might be one strategy; maybe not ideal if one of your goals is to run trials in the immediate future.

SteveCampsOut · March 2020

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.
SNIPPED

What exactly is it about your guild that stands out from the crowds of other guilds? What makes you special. Put that into your guild description in Guild Finder and people who want that type of guild will come to you! Why are people still advertising in zone chats when Guild Finder works so well?

FierceSam · March 2020

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Probably not telling you something you already don't know but I feel that the behavior you are seeing is a byproduct of the games 'multi guild' system.It changes the dynamic of what being in a guild means and I've always found it detrimental to forming meaningful bonds ingame.

I disagree with this as all my meaningful bonds in game have either come from or been reinforced by my guild memberships. My guilds have made playing the game so much more enjoyable. I started playing for the game, but now I’m playing with friends.

I’ve met lots of great people from the guild and I’ve invited a load of players I’ve met, who I’ve had fun playing with, to join the guild. And although I’m a member of 5 guilds, this one feels like ‘my’ guild.

What makes it good?

I really like the vibe, it’s a very active guild in every sense, lots of in game chat of people doing things, looking for others to join them. It’s informal and friendly, but not shy of reminding people if they’re being a bit out of order. My guildies are great people and I trust them to invite quality players to the guild. It feels like a loose collective of great people and like minded gamers.

It runs a certain number of events, not a huge amount, but enough to give guildies some things to do, while understanding that most of the time I’ll just be doing my own thing or playing on my own with guildies. And that ‘not doing guild activities’ has nothing to do with the guild, it’s just me playing the game.

It has a ‘guildhall’ with all the bits n pieces, but I don’t actually use that, as I use one in another guild because ‘that’s my crafting home’.

It’s got a very comprehensive discord, but I really only use it for 4 player chats or trials group chats. I rarely look at it for news or events. I can’t see it while playing. But the voice chat is fantastic. I sometimes post screenshots.

The players who run the guild are fantastically talented and have a great enthusiastic but calm attitude. They enjoy the game and enjoy playing with guildies of all levels.

This guild does not have a trader and that’s not an issue. In some ways it feels like a plus. I have trading guilds for that anyway.

If I was running a guild the thing I’d take away from this is that the guild is an important part of my game, but it doesn’t determine my playing. I might not do many/any guild activities, but it’s still my guild.

In terms of organising things, you want to build the critical mass of players who enjoy playing together. If you can’t get 12 to do trials, then run 4 player dungeon content, or variable number overland groups so players can have fun together. Then you can begin to put together your progression groups. And all of this ‘building a guild’ is a journey that you should enjoy too