Frustration in Growing my Guild

Jaraal

Grezlord wrote: »

Any tips or advice?

You seem like the demanding type of person, who complains a lot when things don't go their way. I've noticed that guilds with this sort of leadership usually have very high turnover. People get enough of this sort of treatment at home, at work, at school, etc.... so they immediately tune it out (or walk away from it, it they're not actually part of the '90% you cut from the roster yourself.')

My advice would be try being more laid back, and not give the "I'm trying so hard, why aren't you guys doing what I tell you, you promised!" type of vibe. My favorite guilds are the ones where the leaders are easy going, humorous, and encouraging without seeming demanding. And don't be so quick to kick those who aren't perfect, because most of us aren't. Loyalty is better when it's earned, rather than required.

HalvarIronfist

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.

The first two issues I can't help, but for the last one, I get that we can all be in multiple guilds, but as a newer, smaller guild trying to get established and make a name for ourselves, its hard because everyone wants to focus more on the already established guilds they're in which means we can make much headway.

Our guild has a discord, we schedule weekly activities, have a guild house everyone to decorate, staff try to stay involved with the members, we seek member input, and we're pretty much doing everything we can to lead by example, stay active ourselves as a staff and get things done. But because people have other guilds or don't care to be as active as we like, we are constantly having to cancel events, people have no idea that they can do different things with us such as decorate the house, they dont even know we have events cuz they're always on the other guild discords or game chats, and it really hurts us and keeps us from growing the way we want to and getting more stuff done. For example, we can't get groups going for Trials because everyone runs trials with their other guilds, so they dont know we're doing them or dont want to.

As a Leader it frustrates me because I'm doing everything possible to get members, be activie, do events, and other stuff but it feels like no one really cares to be involved, play their part in the succcess and growth, expect me to DO IT ALL, and have an unrealistic expectation of how soon things should happen, or how often. For example, I have to wipe 90% of my roster because they thought I should basically be online 24/7 even though when I advertise and talk to people about joining, I explicitly tell them that I work, have a family, real life is always first and we're midcore, so while we're not the most "hardcore" guild, we do expect everyone to contribute, do their part, be active, be part of the effort, etc etc so we can achieve common goals. And everyone says "Okay" but then after they're in, they leave quickly or dont live up to the expectations.

We've been around for about 3 months, and still haven't been able to get regular Trial group going, regular weekly events, or been able to boast a strong activie community because no one except myself and the staff are showing any kind of willingness to be involved. So I'm not sure what more I can do. I can't force people to be involved and contribute and focus more on us. I just want our guild to be as active and established as the guilds they put before us. If no one is willing to join and actually "be here" and "be active", then how else am I suppose to grow it? I am tired of canceling events cuz no one signs up or dont show up. Like why make events if no one is willing to participate? And I do make sure I ask their availability to even do stuff before I create them.

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

So all in all, if I've done everything possible to make my guild grow and be established but no one cares, even after restarting/rebuilding my roster, what else can I do? How can I make a guild, grow it, and keep everyone focused on THIS guild and actually give it its fair share of time? Any tips or advice?

GM here as well. I started my first guild in March of 2019.

First of all, from my personal experience. Growing beyond 50-100 members is the most difficult stage of any guild. Whether it's my trading guild (Sister to main), or my Main guild, that I started Last Year.

As for activity, my main PVE/PVP guild is casual. We try and hold a weekly schedule, but if things fail, oh well. Something i've come to realize especially in a newer guilds position is you just can't (often) waltz in and become the "hot main guild" of ESO. I usually see at least 15-20 people in odd hours. (Thinking NA nights) and maybe 40-60 during the day. (For PVE/PVP guild), while i don't have trouble getting people to engage in conversation, it can be hard to gauge activity. Simply put, when I'm playing ESO, I'm always doing something. I'm not just standing around idle. I assume other people are too.

The BEST thing you can do from my experience is be social. When a guild has very social leadership, guildies tend to respond better, take time out of your gameplay/day (if you have discord, for example) to just chat. For example, In my specific guilds. I'm seen as the "Grumpy Old Nord". I socialize, I jest, I do all my leader work and whatnot, but annoy me (In a joking manner) and I'll beat you with a newspaper. It's a running joke for us. Or my significant other is seen as a 'Guild mother", so on.

As a thing I've noticed. If you're gaining experienced players, they will likely already be in a few guilds but may have certain reasoning to want to join you. For example, I have very good DPS players in my guild, some of which im good friends with, but I don't expect them to want to (essentially) hard carry groups of casuals through x content. (Say, vet trial, vet DLC dungeon), they'll want to run those dungeons with a veteran group. There's nothing wrong with preferring that. But, the difference is if they're ASKED to help, they will more than likely happily oblige, and often times teach things if they must.

on the other hand, NEW players tend to be the most socially active/involved. They want to get into the game, learn and grow. Inevitably, some quit, maybe some move on from your guild. That is life. Out of my OG 50 members, I have about...6 left? 5 of which are officers. Whether you like this or not, there will always be a member influx/outflux from your roster. Sometimes losing some players hits harder than others. (Maybe they were social, maybe they did x)

I suffered problems with inactive members too. Talk to your officers. Talk to your guildies. Again, a social, well informed leader is a prospering leader. I started a bit awkward and unsure of what to do about a year ago at this time. Now my main guild is usually close to 500/500, and my trading guild is just climbing over 200 members. Prosperity takes time, dedication, and most of all: patience and even perhaps acceptance of your situation. I can not offer my guild everything in the game. Someone else can do it better in many cases for sure. What can I offer them? My best, and my willing community. If they choose to stay that is their decision. If they leave, I respect that decision.

Lastly, and most importantly: If you're running a casual guild. (Life, family, work, college, whatever is going on) remember to also play the game and don't fully burn yourself out trying to work on the guild all day of every day. Sometimes when I just hit a snag of stress from guild events. (Say, auction, guild events, trader bidding), so on. I might just take some time to go a bit quiet and go questing, go PVP, just go relax and actually play the game. I find no trouble mentioning this and having my staff or guildies understand.

HalvarIronfist

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.
SNIPPED

What exactly is it about your guild that stands out from the crowds of other guilds? What makes you special. Put that into your guild description in Guild Finder and people who want that type of guild will come to you! Why are people still advertising in zone chats when Guild Finder works so well?

Personally, I see maybe 75% active recruiting coming from zone/dungeon/pvp area chats/recruiting messages, versus maybe 25% coming from guild finder. Obviously this varies by guild, but just my observations. Guild finder works well for the people who aren't lazy enough to avoid it altogether.

FierceSam

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.
SNIPPED

What exactly is it about your guild that stands out from the crowds of other guilds? What makes you special. Put that into your guild description in Guild Finder and people who want that type of guild will come to you! Why are people still advertising in zone chats when Guild Finder works so well?

Personally, I see maybe 75% active recruiting coming from zone/dungeon/pvp area chats/recruiting messages, versus maybe 25% coming from guild finder. Obviously this varies by guild, but just my observations. Guild finder works well for the people who aren't lazy enough to avoid it altogether.

Guild finder is a very passive way of attracting members. It’s definitely a quantity over quality recruitment tool. You are only going to attract players who actively look there and you may not have any idea whether they are a good fit for your guild when they apply. Actually getting the right kind of players to see your guild notice might be challenging too. I would do some blind research, pretend you were the sort of player you want to attract, put in the responses they might and see what the results are. How many guilds are also active in that space? What do they offer? How are you distinct from them? How could you be better/more attractive? If you can’t answer these questions, why would anyone choose your guild over another?

I think a good guild needs to recruit in a variety of ways. And I would say blind promotion ( either in chat or via the guild finder) is one of the least effective. Given guilds are social spaces, I would encourage members to recruit once you’ve got to know them. Players coming into a guild where they already know people are far more likely to stay and help build your community.

Again, research is key. Talk to the people in your guild who best represent your target audience and ask them about their thoughts on the guild, how they were recruited and what you could do to encourage more players like them to join.

I’m in 5 very active, very diverse guilds. I’ve never used guild finder or zone chat to find them. In most cases I’ve been invited to join based on gameplaying with randoms (who later became guildies) and in the case of my PvP guild, I sought the advice of players I know who are actively into PvP and was invited by them.

furiouslog

Grezlord wrote: »

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

So all in all, if I've done everything possible to make my guild grow and be established but no one cares, even after restarting/rebuilding my roster, what else can I do? How can I make a guild, grow it, and keep everyone focused on THIS guild and actually give it its fair share of time? Any tips or advice?

Why do you want to run a guild? What are you hoping to achieve? What is the "endgame" or mission of your guild? Your answers will inform what strategy you need to use for recruitment.

vamp_emily

I once ran a successful guild ( Friendly Dungeon Runners ). To promote the guild I used the forum and would stand around in beginning zones asking people to join and I promised they would never get kicked from a group dungeon again.

The guild was awesome. I hit 500 members and had many requests a day to join the guild. However, as time went by many people got tired of doing the same dungeons and trials over and over. Players got burnt out and it began to get harder to form trial groups. Towards the end, I would start trial groups from guild chat and then go to craglorn to fill the empty spots.

After awhile, I got tired of spending a lot of my time trying to get a group started, so I too became not so active in the guild. I really wanted to give the guild to someone who was a very active player.

It is very hard work keeping a guild active. It might be wise to join an established guild and become an officer to help that guild stay active.

kylewwefan

Figure out the formula and become a trading guild.

All day long you see people advertising their guilds that offer this that or the other. I don’t know why? My trader guilds do more trials than my trials guilds. I can get a dungeon group easier from go in a trader guild than trial/social guild.

There’s PvP guilds. They usually fill their groups out from zone.

If you’re in a guild that doesn’t have a trader, it’s somewhat a wasted/free space. Maybe if you get guild bank access it could be worth it.

I think it’s not just you. Every guild I’ve been in has problems filling out trials. Specially if you wanna go vet and start requiring people to make sweet love to some dummy while recording it and then share. It’s a pretty big major turn off. And would never be held against you somewhere further down the line. Not.

Lorajet

Lixiviant wrote: »

@Grezlord Thinking about what keeps me in a guild might help you.

1. Message of the day. That way I know the Guild is active and they keep you informed.
2. A calendar of weekly events. So I know how to plan my week and see if the events fit my schedule. It also lets me make suggestions to help with future events.
3. A Guild Trader is nice, but I don't join a Guild specifically for that. I join to have fun and learn something, and hopefully, add something to the Guild.
4. If the events are always held in the evening, try seeing if holding an event on the weekend in the morning pulls in more people. I always play in the morning, and that would work for me.
5. Be sure to have events for beginners!
6. And lastly, delegate! Have others head up events so you aren't overloaded and reward them with a rank or ? Also, just have fun!

This.

Iskiab

Guilds have always been about quality and not quantity. Be more aggressive about trimming inactives.

Once you get a core down the rest is easy.

WiseSky

I only have a guild for running dungeons in slow mode to be able to follow the story.
But now thanks to alcast I can solo the dungeons.
The other 4 are trading guilds.
Importance of specializing...
I will be looking for an RP guild but Would never join a Jack of all Trades guild.
Just my 2 cents

idk

A guild must have a structure of leaders that provide activities for players to join in on and get players to join in on them. Raids are one of the best ways to keep the interest in players. That would also be raids at different levels of gameplay and some people to try to get newer players into some of those activities. Encourage members to form dungeon groups in which leadership should be part of creating groups.

This also means keeping member total within what you can manage. Unless it is a trading guild having 500 members tends to be a sign of lousy guild leadership as it is doubtful they have the structure to keep that many people happy.

Remove players who do not participate with the guild and those that take long breaks from the game.

Edit. In this, you do need to determine the focus of your guild.

SirLeeMinion

Grezlord wrote: »

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us. Any tips or advice?

This happens to everyone. If chat is dead, a non-trader guild tends to struggle. Who do you have on your roster that chats actively and in a way that is consistent with the atmosphere you desire? Promote them.

Grezlord wrote: »

... we're pretty much doing everything we can to lead by example, stay active ourselves as a staff and get things done. [but] people have no idea that they can do different things with us

Your advertising isn't effective, or you are offering activities at the wrong time, or hosting activities nobody wants to do. This is a volunteer activity, run by volunteers, and attended by volunteers. They will do what they want to do, when they want to do it. What do they want to do? When do they want to do it? If those answers don't align with what you want to do when you want to do it, you need an officer who does align with those preferences.

Grezlord wrote: »

For example, I have to wipe 90% of my roster because...

This statement, right here, is worth thinking about at length. The common denominator among those 90%... is you. Make a study of the folks that lead the other guilds in which you are a member. What do they do, how do they relate, what can you learn from them. Two statements that have benefited me in real-life leadership of a non-profit coporation:

"Lead your strengths, staff your weaknesses."

"Treat your employees like volunteers; treat your volunteers like gold."

Grezlord wrote: »

We've been around for about 3 months, and still haven't been able to get regular Trial group going, regular weekly events, or been able to boast a strong active community because no one except myself and the staff are showing any kind of willingness to be involved.

This is frustrating. I've lead plenty of groups that maxed out and plenty more with just one or none showing up. You do a bit of soul-searching after you post a day in advance, announce an hour, half an hour, and 15 minutes in advance, give the "x-up" command five minutes before jump-off and nobody Xs up. Is it you? Is it the event? Is it the time? ... and why do you want to lead the group anyway?

Were I to make a totally un-scientific guess, I'd observe that a core group organically forms at something under 100 guild members, somewhere around 250 members, a guild is self-sustaining purely from member invites and guild-finder inquiries. This assumes you are pruning people who haven't been around for over a month and not otherwise pruning people unless they are jerks. ymmv

Mettaricana

I had a guild like 2 years ago got to 120 members but every single one of them would not help in the slightest whole guild for doing dungeon trial etc content want a helm we got you boo! Need that VO ring we got ya! But no one would help each other they just avoided eachother until they needed something and recruitment was pointless no invite my friend or friend of friends etc just dead guild chat avoidance. The 5 guilds thing we had players dropping guild for the 300+ppl guilds that everyone knew about and it just kinda killed all drive to try finally pulled the plug and use the guild for extra storage now

ShizaZepelli

Mettaricana wrote: »

I had a guild like 2 years ago got to 120 members but every single one of them would not help in the slightest whole guild for doing dungeon trial etc content want a helm we got you boo! Need that VO ring we got ya! But no one would help each other they just avoided eachother until they needed something and recruitment was pointless no invite my friend or friend of friends etc just dead guild chat avoidance. The 5 guilds thing we had players dropping guild for the 300+ppl guilds that everyone knew about and it just kinda killed all drive to try finally pulled the plug and use the guild for extra storage now

Guilds in ESO is really bad ( have 1 year in this game ), much elitism and less help. Very Sad! Come from neverwinter and in this game the help come very fast and easy to farm things and help each other, but when i start ESo i really miss this thing.

FierceSam

FYI Here is a thread about how not to grow your guild.

rpa

Try playing with randoms and when you find friendly and compatible people ask in which guild they are. A guild is only as good as people in it.

Also running a good guild is a hard task not everyone is capable of. (I'm not qualified to run even a bad one.) With ESO currently there is rather plenty potential reasons to stop caring abut the game. Having played a good but failing MMO before I know even an exellect guild will get hit hard when few key people quit.

TheRealCherokeee3

Grezlord wrote: »

Greetings! I've had ESO since Beta and the one problem I've always had here is successfully growing, building, and maintaining an "active" guild makeup. I have always been able to recruit pretty well. However, my problem seems to come afterwards.

My main issues: People join and leave within a couple days; People join but then go MIA right after; People join but have multiple guilds and dont pay much attention to us.

The first two issues I can't help, but for the last one, I get that we can all be in multiple guilds, but as a newer, smaller guild trying to get established and make a name for ourselves, its hard because everyone wants to focus more on the already established guilds they're in which means we can make much headway.

Our guild has a discord, we schedule weekly activities, have a guild house everyone to decorate, staff try to stay involved with the members, we seek member input, and we're pretty much doing everything we can to lead by example, stay active ourselves as a staff and get things done. But because people have other guilds or don't care to be as active as we like, we are constantly having to cancel events, people have no idea that they can do different things with us such as decorate the house, they dont even know we have events cuz they're always on the other guild discords or game chats, and it really hurts us and keeps us from growing the way we want to and getting more stuff done. For example, we can't get groups going for Trials because everyone runs trials with their other guilds, so they dont know we're doing them or dont want to.

As a Leader it frustrates me because I'm doing everything possible to get members, be activie, do events, and other stuff but it feels like no one really cares to be involved, play their part in the succcess and growth, expect me to DO IT ALL, and have an unrealistic expectation of how soon things should happen, or how often. For example, I have to wipe 90% of my roster because they thought I should basically be online 24/7 even though when I advertise and talk to people about joining, I explicitly tell them that I work, have a family, real life is always first and we're midcore, so while we're not the most "hardcore" guild, we do expect everyone to contribute, do their part, be active, be part of the effort, etc etc so we can achieve common goals. And everyone says "Okay" but then after they're in, they leave quickly or dont live up to the expectations.

We've been around for about 3 months, and still haven't been able to get regular Trial group going, regular weekly events, or been able to boast a strong activie community because no one except myself and the staff are showing any kind of willingness to be involved. So I'm not sure what more I can do. I can't force people to be involved and contribute and focus more on us. I just want our guild to be as active and established as the guilds they put before us. If no one is willing to join and actually "be here" and "be active", then how else am I suppose to grow it? I am tired of canceling events cuz no one signs up or dont show up. Like why make events if no one is willing to participate? And I do make sure I ask their availability to even do stuff before I create them.

Basically: Why do people join guilds but then disappear or have no real intention of being active?

So all in all, if I've done everything possible to make my guild grow and be established but no one cares, even after restarting/rebuilding my roster, what else can I do? How can I make a guild, grow it, and keep everyone focused on THIS guild and actually give it its fair share of time? Any tips or advice?

I hear ya. Most players window shop and follow the convenience. In my experience, the groups that work, are the ones that are "pre established". Meaning they have a good tight knit group thats close and reliable (WITHOUT being cliquish and exclusive...which is rare in guilds). I'd say, reduce events, sharpen existing ones. Do a few things admirably well rather than a metric ton at an unreliable rate. Set a goal to knock out one or a few things and see who is consistent. When you have a set group thats amicable, hilarious, yet can be serious when needed, and is open and inclusive...I bet you you'll see people pour in and stay in. Also, dont let it get you down. 3 months isnt too long a time. I've seen guilds crumble and rebuild multiple times before stabilizing. And in the past 3 months we've seen some major changes in ESO thanks to ZOS. Even seasoned long time players have been pushed to a breaking point.

Maxx7410

Answer is this, almost all players are casuals and because ZOS make change that kill the non casual players pool this will continue enjoy!!!