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Easy sneak for non-NB
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Kombinator✭✭✭This given me the idea of 2 skill tree potential.
Illusion which would include invisibility on ULTIMATE, and would not break upon interacting with objects. Would still break for casting spells, or using other anything, that affect others, but for example looting a chest, or opening a door would not break it. Morph would also allow to give invisibility to allies in an area. Groups could bypass adds in dungeons with it for example.
Other parts of the illusion would be PVE only. Similar stuff, that goes in Skyrim, and Oblivion. Charm, frenzy, calm. Bosses, and players are immune of course.
Other skill tree would be Alteration. Ultimate would be a telekinetic pull/push. The pull would also taunt enemies. And unlike the DK, and fighter's guild pull. This one would be AOE.
Other skills of the Alteration would be water walking, mage armor, that reduce damage taken, and detect life which would grant wallhack, and let you see stealthed/sneaking enemies. Including players.0 -
daim✭✭✭✭✭Why can't you just roll NB to experience this sneaking experience you're talking about.
Because the Devs appanrently sometimes listen to ideas like these is the core reason why we are in a situation like this where people start to go with gank builds (and other similar builds) more regularly.""I am that which grips the heart in fright, hearkens night and silences the light." It was written on my sword, long…long ago." ―Ajunta Pall
PC|EU1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP is confusing roles with actual abilities. They start off talking roles but then go into a specific ability which is where they seem to get confused.1 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
There is no "role style", ESO has class identity which is something that we care about improving, not disassembling.
Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--2 -
NerfBosmer✭✭Why stop at invisibility? Let's homogenize ALL the classes!
Everyone gets pets! (RIP crafting areas)
Everyone gets a poop rock!
Everyone gets Sun God spears!
Everyone gets invisibility! (Hurray for gankers and incoming PvP nerd threads)
Everyone gets resources back from corpses!
/s
.. I say this sarcastically but also I 100% expect an invisibility skill in the revamped Vamp toolkit come Greymoor, because why tf not at this point, lol. I await the changes with popcorn.
Also, just because any class CAN do any role (including the sneaky stealth role) does not mean they should be able to do it well. And don't tell me it's impossible to stealth on non-NBs: it's HARD but not impossible. I was doing it on my Khajiit DK months before I ever rolled an NB, invisibility pots always hit cd right when I needed them.The only person I know who could ruin a DK in any role!3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
And streak, don't forget about that, every class should be able to move that fast ! ! !NerfBosmer wrote: »Why stop at invisibility? Let's homogenize ALL the classes!
Everyone gets pets! (RIP crafting areas)
Everyone gets a poop rock!
Everyone gets Sun God spears!
Everyone gets invisibility! (Hurray for gankers and incoming PvP nerd threads)
Everyone gets resources back from corpses!
4 -
NerfBosmer✭✭Kombinator wrote: »new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^
NB has awesome self, and group burstheal by ultimate by the way. Also what if i wana be a werewolf? Or wish to remain mortal?
Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
.. what part of 'werewolf' sounds sneaky to you? I'm talking invisible levels of sneaky? I am genuinely curious, because every werewolf I've ever run with in game makes noises every 3-5 seconds. Snacking noisily corpses, howling to summon wolves or just making wolf noises. None of that is stealthy.
I could see a 'stalking the prey' sneak sort of thing, but that runs counter just just about every werewolf ability in game so I don't see that ever getting implemented.The only person I know who could ruin a DK in any role!1 -
Kombinator✭✭✭No
There is no "role style", ESO has class identity which is something that we care about improving, not disassembling.
In that case let's give more identity to all class.
First we remove every universal skill, and slap them to specific classes. Crafting skills excluded of course.
From now on only DK is allowed to wear heavy armor, and use shields. Being tanky is DK identity so nobody allowed to do it. You might try to simulate it by using medium armor with tanky enchants, traits, and set bonus. But you will never be at the same level.
From now on only Templar is allowed to be strong healer. All other classes heal gets 25% nerf, resto staff goes Templar exclusive. All other class gets their non-self healing nerfed by 50%.
Necro gets most of it's skill replaced with raised dead. 75% of it's dd will now be dependent on the existence of corpses. Also all other class lose their ability to res. From now on you need a necro to ress. players in any content.
Sorcerer becomes the primary magicka dd. And as such the only one who can use destro staff. Templar's ardent dawn skills gets replaced with more healing, and supporting stuff.
I'm sure, that you would enjoy the more class identity, and the extremely low number of tanks, and healers.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭NerfBosmer wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^
NB has awesome self, and group burstheal by ultimate by the way. Also what if i wana be a werewolf? Or wish to remain mortal?
Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
.. what part of 'werewolf' sounds sneaky to you? I'm talking invisible levels of sneaky? I am genuinely curious, because every werewolf I've ever run with in game makes noises every 3-5 seconds. Snacking noisily corpses, howling to summon wolves or just making wolf noises. None of that is stealthy.
I could see a 'stalking the prey' sneak sort of thing, but that runs counter just just about every werewolf ability in game so I don't see that ever getting implemented.
You missing the point like Stormtrooper the heroes. You said, that vampire most likely get invisibility. So yeah vampires could sneak around good. But that means all sneaky characters MUST be vampires, or NB. You still narrow down the options drastically.
Also is it that impossible to imagine a sneaky werewolf jumping on it's prey from the shadow?0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭NerfBosmer wrote: »Why stop at invisibility? Let's homogenize ALL the classes!
Everyone gets pets! (RIP crafting areas)
Everyone gets a poop rock!
Everyone gets Sun God spears!
Everyone gets invisibility! (Hurray for gankers and incoming PvP nerd threads)
Everyone gets resources back from corpses!
/s
.. I say this sarcastically but also I 100% expect an invisibility skill in the revamped Vamp toolkit come Greymoor, because why tf not at this point, lol. I await the changes with popcorn.
Also, just because any class CAN do any role (including the sneaky stealth role) does not mean they should be able to do it well. And don't tell me it's impossible to stealth on non-NBs: it's HARD but not impossible. I was doing it on my Khajiit DK months before I ever rolled an NB, invisibility pots always hit cd right when I needed them.
Just erase the class skills alltogether, and let them be learn-able to all characters. Your chosen class would only define your starter skills. Like in pretty much every Elder Scrolls since Morrowind. I know Morrowind, and Oblivion had "classes". Yet you were able to get all skills to 100, and use them as if it were your "class skill". You were not denied from using invisibility, because you started as a warrior.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭BUFF NB
NEVER! They got invisibility, and with it first strike. This makes it reasonable to be the absolute weakest cast on the stage, because with enough teamwork you can be unbeatable.
Giving invisibility with others, and more defense against sneak attacks, and invisibility such as "detect life" is also out of question. Sacrifice everything on the altar of identity.0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭Yah, I've never really been onboard with the "classes should be distinct" argument - My general feeling for most games, is that the ideal solution is for PLAYERS to make their characters unique through choice of skills, equipment, and playstyle. I don't NEED a paladin to feel different from a fighter. I just need you to give me a selection of paladin-style skills, and a selection of fighter-like skills, and I'll make my own pally, or my own fighter, or a pally that's a little bit like a fighter or a fighter that's a little bit like a pally, etc, etc.
So, smash the damn classes together already. Create 2 or three different variations of stealth maybe - a moving stealth, a non-moving stealth, an escape stealth and/or an offensive attack stealth - whatever - then make it available to all players. Some people will pick no stealth, others will go ALL stealth, others will go some portion of one or the other - all awesome to me.
I get the concept of class distinctiveness, but I think it's highly overrated. I find BUILD distinctiveness to be a much more desirable goal. IMO"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk1 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Also it doesn't seem like you read any of my edits, so here you go:
"Edit: you dont even read my arguments. I said specifically that templars have heal implemented in their damage skills, your answer to that was that nightblades can heal as well, did i say they cant? No."
"And for the 2nd time, role is not identity. You literally answered where i already typed it, saying that everyone can tank, be a mag dd, be a stam dd. So ye. Role !=identity. Want to always have option to go invisible? Stack on the event invis potions, put them in the bank, use banker to take them out. here, you don't have to farm for sets. You can already do it. On any class. But through skills? No."
Yes, but even with ALL THE WORK IN THE *** WORLD. Your sneak is NEVER. EVER. Be that powerful.
If we were remove the ability to wear heavy armor on all class except DK, then only DK can remain tank?
No. Others can wear medium, take tanky set bonus, get tanky traits, and enchantements, and equip shield. Can they ever be tanky as a DK in heavy armor with these? No they can't.0 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kombinator wrote: »new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^
NB has awesome self, and group burstheal by ultimate by the way. Also what if i wana be a werewolf? Or wish to remain mortal?
Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
I mean, yeah. That's like saying you want to experience superior sword fighter power, yet you want to use staves to do it.
Werewolves aren't stealthy and tough luck if you don't want to be a vampire for some unknown reason despite wanting to be stealthy. You can still be stealthy, but you naturally won't be as good as vamp or NB. Kinda how I can use magic without having a staff on my bar, but it won't be nearly as good if I were to use a staff. The option is there.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^
NB has awesome self, and group burstheal by ultimate by the way. Also what if i wana be a werewolf? Or wish to remain mortal?
Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
I mean, yeah. That's like saying you want to experience superior sword fighter power, yet you want to use staves to do it.
Werewolves aren't stealthy and tough luck if you don't want to be a vampire for some unknown reason despite wanting to be stealthy. You can still be stealthy, but you naturally won't be as good as vamp or NB. Kinda how I can use magic without having a staff on my bar, but it won't be nearly as good if I were to use a staff. The option is there.
But all other class can do anything else on nearly the same level for nearly the same work. You aren't bound to be a DK to be a tank. Or Templar to be a healer. For sneaking you need ten times work to be less efficient, than an NB.0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭You aren’t thinking at all about classes nb are rogues and rogues have a history of being able to cloak in RPG games and mmos its absolutely bizarre and makes zero sense for a sorc to cloak or a big tanky warrior like a dk it’s just laughable 🤣🤣🤣4 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Invis should be removed from the game completely so nb can be properly balanced. (Replaced with something better)
invis replaced with memento so rp'ers can still do there thing.0 -
NerfBosmer✭✭
No, I'm pretty sure I've got the right idea after re-reading this thread on desktop.Kombinator wrote: »NerfBosmer wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^
NB has awesome self, and group burstheal by ultimate by the way. Also what if i wana be a werewolf? Or wish to remain mortal?
Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
.. what part of 'werewolf' sounds sneaky to you? I'm talking invisible levels of sneaky? I am genuinely curious, because every werewolf I've ever run with in game makes noises every 3-5 seconds. Snacking noisily corpses, howling to summon wolves or just making wolf noises. None of that is stealthy.
I could see a 'stalking the prey' sneak sort of thing, but that runs counter just just about every werewolf ability in game so I don't see that ever getting implemented.
You missing the point like Stormtrooper the heroes. You said, that vampire most likely get invisibility. So yeah vampires could sneak around good. But that means all sneaky characters MUST be vampires, or NB. You still narrow down the options drastically.
1: You seem convinced Invisibility is the only means ever of achieving Stealth, which it's not. And multiple people have told you it's not, and that it's incredibly easy to be stealthy with just medium armor and set bonuses.
2: Since invisibility is The Only Means Ever of Achieving Stealth, you want to have the option to go invisible BUT...- You don't want to roll a Nightblade (fair enough)
- You don't want to be a vampire (fair enough)
- Rolling a Khajiit is a no (fair enough)
- Medium Armor passive isn't good enough (??)
- Sets geared toward sneaking aren't good enough (??)
- Invisibility potions aren't good enough (??)
Also is it that impossible to imagine a sneaky werewolf jumping on it's prey from the shadow?
An ESO werewolf? Yes. Yes, it is. As I said in my earlier comment, they are the antithesis of sneaky. My beagles are sneakier.Edited by NerfBosmer on March 17, 2020 3:54AMThe only person I know who could ruin a DK in any role!2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no class can consistently tank z'maja without kiting the beam like sorc. No class can eat hits from olms blockless like dk after magma shell.no class can give a purge synergy like templar (other options are worse, exactly like invis potions vs real invis). No class can streak around walls in vDoM if dds werent up to killing it like sorc (dds heals and tanks). "But They can still preform the role", well ye, all classes can preform all roles. And all classes can be sneaky. Just in the specific scenario where it is too small to pass without invisablity all the time (so pots are a no, no idea why), in the specific situation of you are out of resources as tank, nothing can bring you back like dk ult. Or in situations where there is too much incoming damage consistently, nothing can mitigate it like a sorc.
PS, role!=identityEdited by zvavi on March 17, 2020 10:21AM2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no class can consistently tank z'maja without kiting the beam like sorc. No class can eat hits from olms blockless like dk after magma shell.no class can give a purge synergy like templar (other options are worse, exactly like invis potions vs real invis). No class can streak around walls in vDoM if dds werent up to killing it like sorc (dds heals and tanks). "But They can still preform the role", well ye, all classes can preform all roles. And all classes can be sneaky. Just in the specific scenario where it is too small to pass without invisablity all the time (so pots are a no, no idea why), in the specific situation of you are out of resources as tank, nothing can bring you back like dk ult. Or in situations where there is too much incoming damage consistently, nothing can mitigate it like a sorc.
PS, role!=identity
So? OP wants invisibility! Don't you get it? HE WANTS INVISIBILITY SKILL! Because... well he wants it! He doesn't want to use many other sources of stealth, he refuses to uses certain sets, items etc. to achieve it. Sorry but OP sounds just like a spoiled kid who wants this certain toy that his friend is playing with, not because there are no other toys. It's because he wants THIS CERTAIN TOY.
Invisibility is already quite hot topic. Many new players thinks its totaly OP, while experienced players say its easy to break and does nothing when countered. There is a reason why NB doesn't have instant heals like sorc, templar, warden or necro. Giving invisibility to all classes, should be equal to giving NBs strong instant heals and skills reducing damage recieved because this would place them in very bad and imbalanced place.
@Kombinator you say about noncombat ult that makes you invisible. Explain me why you refuse to use invis potions then? Because IMHO they are better than your proposed idea. You can use them in combat, you dont have to build ultimate points between usages, meaning during heist or any stealth activity you don't have to get in combat to generate ultimates. Give use your resoning not wishes.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.4
