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Easy sneak for non-NB
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mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭
the rest is potions (potion cooldown glyphs - ninjad xd)Kombinator wrote: »Not always available.
Consider it like a challenging stealth mode, not just brainless Cloak spamming.2 -
Kombinator✭✭✭
the rest is potions (potion cooldown glyphs - ninjad xd)Kombinator wrote: »Not always available.
Consider it like a challenging stealth mode, not just brainless Cloak spamming.
Even with the cooldown reduction you still got ~15s. downtime. Plus potions costs materials. So even with all the extra work in the world which includes tons of crafting, and farming.
You are still left behind.
The reverse would be also good by the way. Remove the cloak from NB, or make it into a stronger ultimate. I'm quite damn sure, that it would easier to balance for PVP, and would solve this problem.Edited by Kombinator on March 16, 2020 12:19PM0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »
the rest is potions (potion cooldown glyphs - ninjad xd)Kombinator wrote: »Not always available.
Consider it like a challenging stealth mode, not just brainless Cloak spamming.
Even with the cooldown reduction you still got ~15s. downtime. Plus potions costs materials. So even with all the extra work in the world which includes tons of crafting, and farming.
You are still left behind.
The reverse would be also good by the way. Remove the cloak from NB, or make it into a stronger ultimate. I'm quite damn sure, that it would easier to balance for PVP, and would solve this problem.
You know whats the difference? You want it for out of combat. Where waiting a bit doesn't matter. Self heals, DO MATTER IN COMBAT.1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is very nice RP. At least you do something.Kombinator wrote: »potions costs materials. So even with all the extra work in the world which includes tons of crafting, and farming.0 -
RaunHunter✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »You are still left behind.
Left behind? Stealth is not a necessity. If you really want to be invis all the time, pick a NB. Just like how if you really wanted to be a summoner, you'd pick Sorc or if you really wanted to be a resurrect-er you'd pick Necro. Classes are about the style of play. Is it easy to go invis with a NB? Yes. Is it impossible with others? No. Besides, like others mentioned, you don't need invis to avoid fights. Just sneak with reduced detection radius is good enough.Edited by RaunHunter on March 16, 2020 12:24PMLesson #1: Red means dead.2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also it doesn't seem like you read any of my edits, so here you go:
"Edit: you dont even read my arguments. I said specifically that templars have heal implemented in their damage skills, your answer to that was that nightblades can heal as well, did i say they cant? No."
"And for the 2nd time, role is not identity. You literally answered where i already typed it, saying that everyone can tank, be a mag dd, be a stam dd. So ye. Role !=identity. Want to always have option to go invisible? Stack on the event invis potions, put them in the bank, use banker to take them out. here, you don't have to farm for sets. You can already do it. On any class. But through skills? No."0 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah, i think you can reduce your detection radius, as RaunHunter mentioned, to almost point blank range. Medium armor passives, maybe there is some sets for it or specific race.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »
the rest is potions (potion cooldown glyphs - ninjad xd)Kombinator wrote: »Not always available.
Consider it like a challenging stealth mode, not just brainless Cloak spamming.
Even with the cooldown reduction you still got ~15s. downtime. Plus potions costs materials. So even with all the extra work in the world which includes tons of crafting, and farming.
You are still left behind.
The reverse would be also good by the way. Remove the cloak from NB, or make it into a stronger ultimate. I'm quite damn sure, that it would easier to balance for PVP, and would solve this problem.
You know whats the difference? You want it for out of combat. Where waiting a bit doesn't matter. Self heals, DO MATTER IN COMBAT.
But you can do it with potions! Potions man are free, and plenty. Potions have no cd. Potions solve everything. /s
One option for the poll is to make out of combat. But not the only one. For me non-combat power sneak would be enough, that is not required 20 hour farming to level up alchemy, create proper gear, and farm resources constantly. And even with all the extra effort, and work. You are still not as good as an NB in sneaking.
By this logic we should buff Templar healers to be twice stronger in heal, and nerf all other by 25%. They still could give some heal, but even with all the extra effort in the world they would be still weaker for healing, than a naked Templar.
Do the same for DK tank for role uniqueness by not allowing anyone else to wear heavy armor. You could still somewhat survivor by going medium armor, and take all the buffs, and potions in the world, but would never be good as a DK.
Also give Necro the ability to reach inifinitely big DD by ressing infinite number of adds in the dungeons. Make it's damage potential literary limitless with average 50k.. Other classes could still do damage, but even with all the effort in the world they wouldn't be even close to the Necro's POWER.
And there is the PVP. For that balance is important. The reason behind the NB being constantly unbalanced is the stealth. It is a NIGHTMARE when it comes to balance, because you are bound to bring the first strike. There are 2 efficient solution. Take away sneak from NB, or give sneak to everyone, and buff NB accordingly.0 -
Alentarlixia✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
Let's see.
When is sneaking no option:
a) in Dungeons
b) in Trials
c) in Dungeons, even if you claim "I hAVe dONe iT iN SKyrIM tOo"
When is sneaking an option:
d) pickpocketing
e) Questing Dark Brotherhood
f) Questing Thieves Guild
g) A few other quests
So. If you want to sneak when doing a,b and c - I can't help you.
For all the other funny moments, there are two sets:
Night Silence
Craftable
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
OR
Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Drops in Greenshade
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery, Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
As you do not need to do much damage in the given situations, blue quality would be enough and is cheap to craft or to buy.
If you like to be fast, add up to 3 pieces of Swift Jewelry. If you are doing your crafting writs daily, you will get some of them for free. Otherwise they are craftable.
The remaining three slots can be filled with:
Night Terror
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 27%.
If you yre picking enough pieces in leather, pick the passive Athletics from the Medium Armor to max speed, Improved Sneak to avoid detection and (really optional) Wind Walker if you have issues with your stamina.
May Sithis guide your way!0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
Let's see.
When is sneaking no option:
a) in Dungeons
b) in Trials
c) in Dungeons, even if you claim "I hAVe dONe iT iN SKyrIM tOo"
When is sneaking an option:
d) pickpocketing
e) Questing Dark Brotherhood
f) Questing Thieves Guild
g) A few other quests
So. If you want to sneak when doing a,b and c - I can't help you.
For all the other funny moments, there are two sets:
Night Silence
Craftable
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
OR
Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Drops in Greenshade
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery, Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
As you do not need to do much damage in the given situations, blue quality would be enough and is cheap to craft or to buy.
If you like to be fast, add up to 3 pieces of Swift Jewelry. If you are doing your crafting writs daily, you will get some of them for free. Otherwise they are craftable.
The remaining three slots can be filled with:
Night Terror
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 27%.
If you yre picking enough pieces in leather, pick the passive Athletics from the Medium Armor to max speed, Improved Sneak to avoid detection and (really optional) Wind Walker if you have issues with your stamina.
May Sithis guide your way!
Only take a few days of constant farming, and guess what. You are still. Below an NB who just got out from Coldharbour at the start. It's like making Templar the only viable healer by disabling resto staff from all other classes. You could still heal others with NB. But even with all the enchants, traits, set bonuses, and stuff. You would still below the weakest Templar who has the healing abilities, and a resto staff at hand.0 -
MercilessnVexed✭✭✭✭No. Just no. Part of being a nightblade IS to be able to sneak. So yes, use your potions. Become a vampire so you can be faster. Get an armor set and switch out quickly so you can sneak better. Let NB be sneaky. It's part of the class identity. Wanna be sneaky like a NB? Be a NB.3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm torn on this. Giving an identical version (invisibility pots are already identical, if not superior for non-combat applications) is out of the question, imo. It absolutely should stay a defining skill for Nightblades. On the other hand, it really does stand out in its uniqueness compared to the capabilities of other classes - it's as if only Dragonknights could equip shields. Besides, having to rely on invisibility might hurt NBs in the long run, as it becomes a crutch that justifies any nerfs coming their way (I'd argue in the long run is today and they've already seen all those nerfs).
Regardless, I think an active skill that improves general sneak ability - in contrast to outright granting invisibility - would be a justifiable addition. Ideally it would have become part of spellcrafting (remember that they featured Muffle in the original presentation?). I'm thinking along the lines of ...
Camouflage
Instantly crouch down into sneak.
> Chameleon
No movement penalty in sneak for 10 seconds.
> Muffle
Decrease stealth detection radius by 3 meters for 10 seconds.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Beastygrowls wrote: »No. Just no. Part of being a nightblade IS to be able to sneak. So yes, use your potions. Become a vampire so you can be faster. Get an armor set and switch out quickly so you can sneak better. Let NB be sneaky. It's part of the class identity. Wanna be sneaky like a NB? Be a NB.
Let's expand your logic.
Erase healing capabilities from all other class except Templar, and make resto staff only available for Templar. Wana be healer? Be Templar.
Erase ability of using heavy armor from all classes except DK. Wana be tank? Be DK.
Erase ability of using destro staff from all class except Sorcerer. Wana be magicka DD? Be Sorcerer.Edited by Kombinator on March 16, 2020 12:51PM0 -
Alentarlixia✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »
Only take a few days of constant farming,
It took me 15 minutes to get this stuff.
0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »
Only take a few days of constant farming,
It took me 15 minutes to get this stuff.
Show me a video, that starts from character creation, and you get this in 15 minutes. You are not allowed to log into any other character while doing it, or take any mail from any other player, or take any item from any bank. I pay you 3000 crown in return.
If you can do it in 2 hours, then i pay 2000.
If you can do it in 3 hours, then you get 1000.Edited by Kombinator on March 16, 2020 12:50PM0 -
RaunHunter✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »Let's expand your logic.
Erase healing capabilities from all other class except Templar, and make resto staff only available for Templar. Wana be healer. Be Templar.
Erase ability of using heavy armor from all classes except DK. Wana be tank? Be DK.
Erase ability of using destro staff from all class except Sorcerer. Wana be magicka DD? Be Sorcerer.
You are again confusing roles with identities, which many of us don't. So, until we get a consensus on that, this discussion will remain fruitless.
There are three roles: DPS, Heal, & Tank. Since you are stuck on roles, does Invisibility grant a tremendous boost to any of the particular role that it is useless to run any other class for that particular role? No. Then why confuse roles with identities?Lesson #1: Red means dead.3 -
Alentarlixia✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »
Only take a few days of constant farming,
It took me 15 minutes to get this stuff.
Show me a video, that starts from character creation, and you get this in 15 minutes. You are not allowed to log into any other character while doing it, or take any mail from any other player, or take any item from any bank. I pay you 3000 crown in return.
If you can do it in 2 hours, then i pay 2000.
If you can do it in 3 hours, then you get 1000.
m)0 -
MercilessnVexed✭✭✭✭RaunHunter wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »Let's expand your logic.
Erase healing capabilities from all other class except Templar, and make resto staff only available for Templar. Wana be healer. Be Templar.
Erase ability of using heavy armor from all classes except DK. Wana be tank? Be DK.
Erase ability of using destro staff from all class except Sorcerer. Wana be magicka DD? Be Sorcerer.
You are again confusing roles with identities, which many of us don't. So, until we get a consensus on that, this discussion will remain fruitless.
There are three roles: DPS, Heal, & Tank. Since you are stuck on roles, does Invisibility grant a tremendous boost to any of the particular role that it is useless to run any other class for that particular role? No. Then why confuse roles with identities?
@RaunHunter LOL you missed the part where you splain you expanding his logic.
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zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »
Only take a few days of constant farming,
It took me 15 minutes to get this stuff.
Show me a video, that starts from character creation, and you get this in 15 minutes. You are not allowed to log into any other character while doing it, or take any mail from any other player, or take any item from any bank. I pay you 3000 crown in return.
If you can do it in 2 hours, then i pay 2000.
If you can do it in 3 hours, then you get 1000.
I see no rule against shopping. Is the offer for everyone?0 -
TigressCreed✭✭✭Great. So everyone in pvp can keep going Invisible....bad idea. Also we need clear class IDENTITY. What’s the point of playing a NB if every other class can do the same?Xbox NA TigressCreed0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Kombinator here you go man. https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=7712&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Roguish+Stealth+Draught&ItemCategory1ID=4&ItemCategory2ID=23&ItemTraitID=&ItemQualityID=&IsChampionPoint=false&LevelMin=&LevelMax=&MasterWritVoucherMin=&MasterWritVoucherMax=&AmountMin=&AmountMax=&PriceMin=&PriceMax=
If you need some coin for them (even though it is easy to find for 10g each) i can give you 10k so you will be able to stealth around.
PS: the offer of crowns for shopping for sets is real or not? Because i will do it. I will take a video with my omega laggy laptop, and will shop for it with 20k budget, and will get it. Just tell me that the crown offer is real. I mean seriously, you need 3 pieces of night terror(buyable cause overland) then fill another 5 with night silence which is craftable, while i am not confident in doing it in 15 minutes cause of loading screens, half an hour should be an overkill.Edited by zvavi on March 16, 2020 1:52PM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »Can you get past 2 enemies in a narrow tunnel without invisibility potion with any other class? The answer is: NO.
Duh... Sure I can. Night Mother Embrace + Night Terror sets + Medium passives and I can sneak to any NPC (ofc not the ones with detection rings but cloak is useless against them to) like 5m in front of them before being noticed. It's even better because I can unlock chests and pickpocket with it because I don't have to recast it. How do you think I have managed to finish thieves guild and dark brotherhood quests almost without any bounties? LoL.
If you want to play a thief or stealthy assassin you can do it on any toon, just differently than NB but even when on NB I use those sets because it's superior to cloak in many situations, cloak is better just in one scenario - it can be used in combat - that's all. And I think nobody would like to face stamina necro or warden with something like cloak.
PS. This setup is made for you if you want to grab some skyshards in Cyrodiil without fighting. Players will find only when they will literally stomp on you.Edited by Mayrael on March 16, 2020 1:57PMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kombinator wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.
Let's see.
When is sneaking no option:
a) in Dungeons
b) in Trials
c) in Dungeons, even if you claim "I hAVe dONe iT iN SKyrIM tOo"
When is sneaking an option:
d) pickpocketing
e) Questing Dark Brotherhood
f) Questing Thieves Guild
g) A few other quests
So. If you want to sneak when doing a,b and c - I can't help you.
For all the other funny moments, there are two sets:
Night Silence
Craftable
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
OR
Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Drops in Greenshade
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery, Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
As you do not need to do much damage in the given situations, blue quality would be enough and is cheap to craft or to buy.
If you like to be fast, add up to 3 pieces of Swift Jewelry. If you are doing your crafting writs daily, you will get some of them for free. Otherwise they are craftable.
The remaining three slots can be filled with:
Night Terror
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 27%.
If you yre picking enough pieces in leather, pick the passive Athletics from the Medium Armor to max speed, Improved Sneak to avoid detection and (really optional) Wind Walker if you have issues with your stamina.
May Sithis guide your way!
Only take a few days of constant farming, and guess what. You are still. Below an NB who just got out from Coldharbour at the start. It's like making Templar the only viable healer by disabling resto staff from all other classes. You could still heal others with NB. But even with all the enchants, traits, set bonuses, and stuff. You would still below the weakest Templar who has the healing abilities, and a resto staff at hand.
Where I can farm couple days to reach DPS numbers of stamcro or magDk on my magblade? Or to get proper burst combo/nice heals in PvP? Please tell me, I can farm a lot to achieve that as a blade2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
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And if you want to be a nightblade be a nightblade!Kombinator wrote: »Beastygrowls wrote: »No. Just no. Part of being a nightblade IS to be able to sneak. So yes, use your potions. Become a vampire so you can be faster. Get an armor set and switch out quickly so you can sneak better. Let NB be sneaky. It's part of the class identity. Wanna be sneaky like a NB? Be a NB.
Let's expand your logic.
Erase healing capabilities from all other class except Templar, and make resto staff only available for Templar. Wana be healer? Be Templar.
Erase ability of using heavy armor from all classes except DK. Wana be tank? Be DK.
Erase ability of using destro staff from all class except Sorcerer. Wana be magicka DD? Be Sorcerer.
Edited by TequilaFire on March 16, 2020 2:17PM6 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you want to play a thief or stealthy assassin you can do it on any toon, just differently than NB but even when on NB I use those sets because it's superior to cloak in many situations, cloak is better just in one scenario - it can be used in combat - that's all. And I think nobody would like to face stamina necro or warden with something like cloak.
Just imagine, creeping up on a group, spamming an ability similar to cloak and sub. Assault or sitting in a safe distance and Blighted Blastbones... vanishing away when they explodeon said group... the outrage would be well words couldn't describe it lol.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would love a permanent bear pet on my dk and nb. In fact I would love some permanent pets on my Necro too.
And I would also love some frost spells on my sorc.
As long as we are having all classes do everything the other classes can do, can we get these implemented as well?
(Only partiality sarcastic.)4 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭My thief is a pet sorc Bosmer (you know? That race that lost its natural stealth some time ago). I can steal anything that the game considers steal-able and seldom get caught.
Do you know where I don't sneak? In dungeons and trials, because when I'm in those, the idea is to kill everything that attacks me or the group.
Do you know when I sneak in Cyro? When I'm close to objectives for scouting missions. And you know what? It's boring. I finally began having fun in Cyro this year when instead of sneaking around, my char stood up and got into fights.
I'm leveling up a NB so she can become my perfect criminal, but I'm leveling her up by doing quests. I only put cloak on her bar when I'm leveling up her legerdemain .0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭StormeReigns wrote: »If you want to play a thief or stealthy assassin you can do it on any toon, just differently than NB but even when on NB I use those sets because it's superior to cloak in many situations, cloak is better just in one scenario - it can be used in combat - that's all. And I think nobody would like to face stamina necro or warden with something like cloak.
Just imagine, creeping up on a group, spamming an ability similar to cloak and sub. Assault or sitting in a safe distance and Blighted Blastbones... vanishing away when they explodeon said group... the outrage would be well words couldn't describe it lol.
Not if we make it non-combat combatible, or turn it into ult, or give other anti-stealth methods such as detect life spell, or balance classes according to this possibility.
I would prefer the detect life spell approach. Maybe created to a new alteration skill tree, that could also include stuff such as water walking, and telekinesis.0
). Or any of the various combinations of all those things.