Nightblades have had enough.

Gatdangmayne · March 2020

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

Strider__Roshin · March 2020

Just play a different game for the time being. You're just supporting bad behavior otherwise.

Iskiab · March 2020

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

That’d be pretty cool. I played with dark cloak for two patches and it was okay, what killed it was the dizzy stun. Without reliable self healing the best defense for magblade is to cloak and run when attacked with speed. Without shadowy disguise right now you’re like a training dummy waiting to die with no way to recover your health.

1v1 shade is pretty awesome for maim and to get more out of hots, but lack of bar space prevents using it in BGs. The class lacks the burst to counter attack under pressure and self healing to help recover under pressure. Shadowy disguise is sorta the only option atm.

Dueling works because the healing is enough for against one person’s damage, against two its kite or die without tools to recover.

Thedragonlolitucker · March 2020

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

As long as bad nightblades cry anytime changing cloak is mentioned, nightblade will be what it is.

Having the ability to repeatedly disappear at will has no place in pvp, and as long as you can do that, there will be no buffs.

Nightblade is weak compared to the meta specs, but the difference isnt nearly as bad as most say. If you actually L2P and don't crutch on stealth you'll be better and have more fun.

if nb cant cloak dont let dk block and heal back to full with a 1million hp vigor or magsorc cant shield, literally makes no sense mate

deepseamk20b14_ESO · March 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

That’d be pretty cool. I played with dark cloak for two patches and it was okay, what killed it was the dizzy stun. Without reliable self healing the best defense for magblade is to cloak and run when attacked with speed. Without shadowy disguise right now you’re like a training dummy waiting to die with no way to recover your health.

1v1 shade is pretty awesome for maim and to get more out of hots, but lack of bar space prevents using it in BGs. The class lacks the burst to counter attack under pressure and self healing to help recover under pressure. Shadowy disguise is sorta the only option atm.

Dueling works because the healing is enough for against one person’s damage, against two its kite or die without tools to recover.

Ahem, speak for yourself! Lol. I use shadow image and do not slot cloak in BG's and its great, better honestly. Better players make cloak useless anyways. It is a hard trade though, I get it.

Still gets hate tells and I have to explain every time its shadow image....not me cloaking around.

Healing is only a pain because at the moment it doesn't work 90% of the time. The amount of times with this last patch rally gives me ZERO HP on recast is super annoying. So much so, I may just start using forward momentum because rally just isn't doing it for me.

Give SA major fracture again and rework mark into a DoT with minor vulnerability on target. Get rid of minor vulnerability on ambush and give it stun back on players. Not sure what mageblade needs. Haven't played one in years.

dsalter · March 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Irfind wrote: »

Sorc is missing....

the sorc is the bat, you never expect the bat to be the real killer, gotta love my kill stealing lightning

Iskiab · March 2020

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

That’d be pretty cool. I played with dark cloak for two patches and it was okay, what killed it was the dizzy stun. Without reliable self healing the best defense for magblade is to cloak and run when attacked with speed. Without shadowy disguise right now you’re like a training dummy waiting to die with no way to recover your health.

1v1 shade is pretty awesome for maim and to get more out of hots, but lack of bar space prevents using it in BGs. The class lacks the burst to counter attack under pressure and self healing to help recover under pressure. Shadowy disguise is sorta the only option atm.

Dueling works because the healing is enough for against one person’s damage, against two its kite or die without tools to recover.

Ahem, speak for yourself! Lol. I use shadow image and do not slot cloak in BG's and its great, better honestly. Better players make cloak useless anyways. It is a hard trade though, I get it.

Still gets hate tells and I have to explain every time its shadow image....not me cloaking around.

Healing is only a pain because at the moment it doesn't work 90% of the time. The amount of times with this last patch rally gives me ZERO HP on recast is super annoying. So much so, I may just start using forward momentum because rally just isn't doing it for me.

Give SA major fracture again and rework mark into a DoT with minor vulnerability on target. Get rid of minor vulnerability on ambush and give it stun back on players. Not sure what mageblade needs. Haven't played one in years.

Oh, I magblade not Stamblade. For self healing imagine a stamblade without rally, where you had to use echoing vigor because resolving vigor has a good chance of going on someone else.

Then imagine because you had no rally or camouflage hunter you had to use weapon damage + crit + stam pots instead of tri stat. That’s magblade, but in exchange you can spam utility abilities and play ranged.

Feizao · March 2020

I feel lost when re-theoryizing my build. i've tried wearing heavy to add resistance and also looked up PVE healer builds for healing ideas. even those videos say nightblades underperform. The old healing ward was my solution for defense and a chance for a burst heal.

olsborg · March 2020

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

As long as bad nightblades cry anytime changing cloak is mentioned, nightblade will be what it is.

Having the ability to repeatedly disappear at will has no place in pvp, and as long as you can do that, there will be no buffs.

Nightblade is weak compared to the meta specs, but the difference isnt nearly as bad as most say. If you actually L2P and don't crutch on stealth you'll be better and have more fun.

I havent used shadowy disguise in 2 years or so, and im playing medium armor stamblade, the reason I cant rly compete well with meta on that char is because A: I dont have any healbuffs, mending etc, B: I dont have any skills that will reliably hit someone when used in a combo(dodged), C: I dont have any healdebuffs like Defile, D: I dont have any reliable class heals. And im 99% sure dark cloaks minor protection currently isnt working.

Gatdangmayne · March 2020

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

if nb cant cloak dont let dk block and heal back to full with a 1million hp vigor or magsorc cant shield, literally makes no sense mate

Okay mate enjoy whining for buffs that will never come then.

fastolfv_ESO · March 2020

nightblades still have the highest burst in both solo and group play so what exactly do people want? other than going after the heavy meta (which they should) nothing can be done without making the class bonkers OP

haploeb14_ESO · March 2020

My Nightblade is just as fun and just as viable as he was the first day ESO went live.

You learn to adapt, just as you do in real live with changes.

Don't assume and try to include, "all Nightblades", with a false Tittle seemingly trying to include any and all Nightblades..

deepseamk20b14_ESO · March 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

That’d be pretty cool. I played with dark cloak for two patches and it was okay, what killed it was the dizzy stun. Without reliable self healing the best defense for magblade is to cloak and run when attacked with speed. Without shadowy disguise right now you’re like a training dummy waiting to die with no way to recover your health.

1v1 shade is pretty awesome for maim and to get more out of hots, but lack of bar space prevents using it in BGs. The class lacks the burst to counter attack under pressure and self healing to help recover under pressure. Shadowy disguise is sorta the only option atm.

Dueling works because the healing is enough for against one person’s damage, against two its kite or die without tools to recover.

Ahem, speak for yourself! Lol. I use shadow image and do not slot cloak in BG's and its great, better honestly. Better players make cloak useless anyways. It is a hard trade though, I get it.

Still gets hate tells and I have to explain every time its shadow image....not me cloaking around.

Healing is only a pain because at the moment it doesn't work 90% of the time. The amount of times with this last patch rally gives me ZERO HP on recast is super annoying. So much so, I may just start using forward momentum because rally just isn't doing it for me.

Give SA major fracture again and rework mark into a DoT with minor vulnerability on target. Get rid of minor vulnerability on ambush and give it stun back on players. Not sure what mageblade needs. Haven't played one in years.

Oh, I magblade not Stamblade. For self healing imagine a stamblade without rally, where you had to use echoing vigor because resolving vigor has a good chance of going on someone else.

Then imagine because you had no rally or camouflage hunter you had to use weapon damage + crit + stam pots instead of tri stat. That’s magblade, but in exchange you can spam utility abilities and play ranged.

Ick. I use pots on sorc for the major sorcery and crit but at least my sorc has the burst to not need them. That gets expensive. I've noticed mageblade have been forced into a corner as far as sets and skills on the bars. I think they are in a worse spot than stamblades.

thankyourat · March 2020

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

Removing stealth wouldn’t open up more possibilities. It’s also not the reason that Nightblades were nerfed. The most complained about Nightblades were heavy armor stamblades using dark cloak and bleeds and 60k+ magicka stacking magicka Nightblades using 14k damage shields while having almost 30k spectral bow tooltips. Neither of those builds used invisibility at all.

Khatou · March 2020

and one more topic for the NB, but only to make it listen to the players? sad it's not them who develop the game? Devs? or are they? with the "no right to reply" policy, so what's the point of having a forum in this case if it's just to allow the community to talk in a vacuum and risk ending up in conflict? The contact is so complicated at ZOS yet no coronavirus on a

There are lots of topics all over the NB, but no reaction from the devs they keep on killing the NB and making the other classes even more abused than they already are (if you have to shout to be heard THE TEMPLAR MASSACRE THE PVP!!!) (Let's not forget the discrete Updates!!!) The NB has a great place in the elder universe and in the hearts of the players should the devs ask themselves again about the game they have in their hands.

There is really fed up with all thrown away our build sut certain player who underwent no damage, but them in a blow or 2 degum you in no time. The invisibility hardly perfectible nowadays so much it has of means to make it useless, but brothel one is a murderer' what!!!!

The proportion of damage on this game is to be completely reviewed completely to be typed attacks of + of 10k it is anything even more than 8k it is too much however in full impenetrable with Nordic class etc one is all the same violated like never if ZOS wishes to disgust us of the game with its PVP it is succeeded I am with 2 fingers of abandoned the game so much it is demotivating when you want to play something that the devs decided that not!!!!

And if not the NB heal where is it ??????? what do you have to force yourself to be psijic to enjoy a heal and if you don't want to ?????? It's high time to think about a drastic balancing act, developers !!!

oringal text :

et un topic de plus pour le NB, mais seulement pour qu'elle écoute ? les joueurs ? triste c'est pas eux qui développe le jeu ? des Devs ? ou son t-il? avec la politique "on n’a pas le droit de répondre", alors à quoi bon faire un forum dans ce cas si c'est juste pour permettre a la communauté de parler dans le vide au risque de finir par des conflits ? Le contact c'est si compliqué ça chez ZOS pourtant pas de coronavirus sur lun

Il y a des tas de topic partout sur le NB, mais aucune réaction des devs ils continuent chaque jour de dégommer le NB et de rendre les autres classes encore plus abusé qu'elles ne le sont déjà (s'il faut crier pour être entendu LE TEMPLAR MASSACRE LE PVP !!!) (N'oublions pas les MAJ Discrète !!!) Le NB a pourtant une grande place dans l'univers elder et au cœurs des joueurs faudrait que les devs se repose la question à propos du jeu qu'ils ont entre leur main.

Y en a vraiment ras-le-bol de tout balancé notre build sut certain joueur qui subi aucun dégât, mais eux en un coup ou 2 te dégomme en un rien de temps. L'invisibilité à peine perfectible de nos jours tellement il a de moyen de la rendre inutile, mais bordel on est un assassin' quoi !!!

La proportion des dégâts sur ce jeu est à revoir complètement se taper des attaques de +de 10k c'est n'importe quoi même plus de 8k c'est trop pourtant en full impénétrable avec classe nordique etc on est quand même violenté comme jamais si ZOS souhaite nous dégouter du jeu avec son PVP c'est réussi je suis a 2 doigts d'abandonné le jeu tellement il est démotivant quand tu veux jouer quelque chose que les devs ont décidé que non !!!

Et sinon le heal du NB ou est-il ????? quoi faut se forcer a être psijique pour profiter d'un heal et si on ne veut pas ???? Il serait grand temps de penser a un gros plan d'équilibrage drastique, messieurs les développeurs !!!!

Czekoludek · March 2020

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

nightblades still have the highest burst in both solo and group play so what exactly do people want? other than going after the heavy meta (which they should) nothing can be done without making the class bonkers OP

Not good enough bait xD really, calling the most predictible and avoidable burst "the best one" is a little too much to be taken seriously

Gatdangmayne · March 2020

thankyourat wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

Removing stealth wouldn’t open up more possibilities. It’s also not the reason that Nightblades were nerfed. The most complained about Nightblades were heavy armor stamblades using dark cloak and bleeds and 60k+ magicka stacking magicka Nightblades using 14k damage shields while having almost 30k spectral bow tooltips. Neither of those builds used invisibility at all.

Where did I say anything about why nightblades were nerfed? Nice strawman argument though

DUTCH_REAPER · March 2020

I main a mdk. I use to be scared when I got ganked by a NB. Now. I just feel sorry that Th year have been nerfd into the ground. They need some lovin ZOS.

#jusctice4NBs

hellcatlizzieb16_ESO · March 2020

100% agree, my main was a nb from launch, still my main but I really just use her for finishing of achievements and crafting dailies etc. Made a stamcro recently and shes already hitting higher than my nb who is wearing golded out decent armour sets weapons etc, has a decent rotation previously hitting high dpd on test etc. My stamcro is in purple crafted sets except her monster set and havent got a rotation down yet with her and shes knocking my nb out the park

BRogueNZ · March 2020

I think most of the problem is bow not NB, other things you can counter

..but please tell me how hard it is to queue up 2x 10 -14k Snipes from a mile away then complain about HA and tank meta's because your bitter it wasn't a one shot trick.

Grey17 · March 2020

hellcatlizzieb16_ESO wrote: »

100% agree, my main was a nb from launch, still my main but I really just use her for finishing of achievements and crafting dailies etc. (

Same...Mine is reduced to doing above and a bit of speed harvesting.

Sad

Chelo · March 2020

Taktak wrote: »

tbh i dont see any problem in NB class in pvp, the only thing that need buff is "Aspect of Terror" which is feel not that special
NB clock still op and it should be change

Do you realize this patch everything can hit through Cloak, every light/heavy attack, every pet, every skill, so basically every single source of damage can hit NBs through stealth and reveal them... How's the op on that?

And Devs doesn't seem in a hurry to fix it...

Sanguinor2 · March 2020

Honestly, magblade would be in a much better place if PvE and PvP were balanced sepparately. Zos had to do something About magblade dds having 15 to 20k hps in Trials while being the highest magicka dps so they just nerfed a lot back in murkmire.

Deathlord92 · March 2020

Shadowasrial wrote: »

I think most dedicated pvp nightblades and even some pve nightblades will agree that enough is enough. These past 2 years have been nothing but garbage nerfs that were unwarranted on a class that is played by many as a solo class. I don’t know about you but when I created a nightblade after looking at its skills I didn’t imagine myself running around in heavy armor swinging a 2 handed weapon and a shield. ( maybe some of you did but I bet most nightblades didn’t) I bet when most people first rolled their nightblade they pictured themselves running around in light or medium armor wielding daggers and a bow or swords and staffs. But we have been pushed and pushed into a corner that we don’t like. It doesn’t even fit the power fantasy (as the devs call it) when you read the class description.

You have listened to the whines of players who refuse to learn how to get better at the game. Any time a player gets “ganked” by a nightblade they scream overpowered! You need to nerf them. And every time zenimax has responded with nerf after nerf. You promised class balance and yet nightblades are weaker than every other class. Our class skills don’t even benefit from the heavy armor meta on an equal playing field as the other classes.

Now even some of the most prominent streamers and build creators for the class are giving up. I’m on the verge myself. And Iv been playing this game for going on 8000 hours. Iv always told myself have patience zenimax will eventually hear us out and give us some buffs but instead it’s as if they have just been seeing what’s hurting us looking for more ways to beat this class into the ground. It’s no longer fun to play a nightblade. The forums are flooded with people bashing nightblades and cheering that they we are being nerfed. I have lost faith in my class Represenitive and I have lost faith in zenimax.

Many promises have been made and many of them have failed to be delivered. I must confess that if this next chapter doesn’t restore nightblades to a competitive state then I shall have no choice but to quit this game. Iv spent over the past 5-6 years at least 10,000 dollars since the birth of this game and I guess I shall have to find a new game to finance.

Don’t let me down zenimax. I don’t want to quit this game but your rapidly leaving me no choice. I have no interest in playing other classes Iv played a rogue in every mmo Iv ever played it’s just who I am. And so far every other mmo Iv played has better rogues than ESO.

Yup completely agree with this I stopped my eso plus last year in October and have no intention on spending anymore money into eso fun again for this to happen my nb needs to be fixed and improvements on performance needs to happen at the very least I want my stamblade to be fun again.

Grianasteri · March 2020

Love my stamblades, had one for years in pve. Made one for pvp as I got more into Cyrodiil last year or two, love that also.

Never made a magblade until this year, absolutely love that as well and cant believe Ive never made one till now.

That said... I can see the nerfs over the years and it has been frustrating. Its not as easy to use in pvp now thats for sure.

As ever, part of the problem has been the never ending quest to "balance" pvp, which often fails and has unintended consequences, and very very often totally screws pve.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · March 2020

hey...when all other classes are brokenly unbalanced and strong, there is only 1 thing to do...nerf nb some more! cuz logic.

thankyourat · March 2020

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

Removing stealth wouldn’t open up more possibilities. It’s also not the reason that Nightblades were nerfed. The most complained about Nightblades were heavy armor stamblades using dark cloak and bleeds and 60k+ magicka stacking magicka Nightblades using 14k damage shields while having almost 30k spectral bow tooltips. Neither of those builds used invisibility at all.

Where did I say anything about why nightblades were nerfed? Nice strawman argument though

You were implying that Nightblades won’t receive buffs due to cloak when cloak has nothing to due with Nightblades being in the position that they’re in.

Zer0_CooL · March 2020

Just hop on the bandwagon and level up a necro or warden. Problem solved.

Iskiab · March 2020

thankyourat wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@iskiab I agree Re: Boring combat and classes being too similar, but outside of the similarities between sorc and nightblade, the classes are distinct enough IMO.

Removing the invis mechanic doesn't have to kill the assassin fantasy, I would suggest playing up the "illusionist" aspect.

Maybe keep the crit buff from cloak but change it to the old dodge chance from evasion or something crazy like illusory copies of you that take damage, are targetable and not easily seen as the "fakes"?

Maybe adding a stam morph on funnel health/swallow soul, playing inthe whole siphoner aspect?

Idk, but removing the invisibility would open up a world of possibilities.

Removing stealth wouldn’t open up more possibilities. It’s also not the reason that Nightblades were nerfed. The most complained about Nightblades were heavy armor stamblades using dark cloak and bleeds and 60k+ magicka stacking magicka Nightblades using 14k damage shields while having almost 30k spectral bow tooltips. Neither of those builds used invisibility at all.

Where did I say anything about why nightblades were nerfed? Nice strawman argument though

You were implying that Nightblades won’t receive buffs due to cloak when cloak has nothing to due with Nightblades being in the position that they’re in.

It isn’t? I always assume it must be, like the devs but a value on cloak and then undertune other abilities. If not then a lot must be pretty clueless.

How else can being able to kill people with 2 damage abilities (dizzy + executioner) be justified when it’d be impossible with two others (swallow soul and impale). It can’t be the healing on swallow soul either, concealed is equally futile.

You could weave dizzy + executioner with no Ult and get lots of kills in pvp, with swallow soul and impale you could weave those for days and not kill anyone.

Ragnaroek93 · March 2020

I've been playing Nb since beta and always played on a pretty high level (= being able to 1vX and compete with tournament players and streamers in 1v1s). The class simply can't compete with the meta specs anymore and the combat team seems to give a [snip] about it. Playing other games now and haven't spend any money on this trash since Elswyer.

[Edit for minor profanity]