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What happened to the price of Columbine ?
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HelathAndrethi✭✭✭Looks like the price increase is still largely due to inflation as before, and every year the price of consumables may get higher by a little bit due to influx of new players (or inadequate control of inflation).
I'm trying to sell more this month and stock up gold, coz the annual crackdown on inflation (aka the Anniversary Event) is coming in a month or so.2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MM has been unreliable and has been automatically deleting guild information for months, so we have decided to stop using it, and we encourage everyone to use TTC or ATT.
So you're part of the "you have to use our prices or it ISN'T FAIR" group.
I use MM to get a general idea of prices. When I ask for a price check in my guilds, I usually get MM prices for a check. I usually lower the prices I get from MM anyway. According to what you've posted, I really should have raised the prices I posted my tempers, columbine, and cornflower at, by a lot. Sucks that people using TTC or ATT set their prices so high it throws everything off.
2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheFM,
I'm delighted you've got a solution that works for you!
However, you still don't get the problem with bots. Or perhaps you just don't care because it doesn't present a problem for you.
Columbine is a demand/supply problem with price gougers in the middle.
Demand, which was reasonable high already due to pots, increased, due to the Sugar Skulls food. Price goes up after event.
Supply, which was from farmers and Tel Var satchels, has decreased since Elsweyr due to the IC campaign changes. Prices goes up over time.
Price gougers see an opportunity to wiggle their way in by raising the price to meet what they see as increased demand.
Now add an extra supply of Columbine for players to use. Price drops.
But that new source, housing, is easy for bots to exploit without ever getting reported. Supply increases even more, prices drop even more.
But who benefits?
Bots benefit over actual farmers, because real players can't use the housing farming as efficiently as bots can.
Price gougers benefit over players who sell for reasonable prices because - short of a server wide boycott on the price routers - players are going to still buy at the inflated prices. Buyers are still going to face greedy, inflated prices.
You benefit because despite the price gougers carrying on, you'd boycott everyone who wasn't selling at the lowered prices depressed by the supply generated by bots instead of real players farming the new supply.
And therein lies my problem.
Sure, bots increasing supply would benefit you because you'd only buy at the lowered prices.
But as a result, actual farmers who don't price gouge are dealing with the depressed prices from the supply illegitimately created by TOS-breaking bots (and without even the ability to report those bots).
And the price gougers aren't inconvenienced at all, because to be perfectly blunt, they don't GAF about your personal boycott.
So its a win for you, the bots, and price gougers. Not so much for the farmers, most buyers. And definitely not a solution for inflated prices or players being greedy.Edited by VaranisArano on March 8, 2020 5:34PM3 -
Disturbed_One✭✭✭✭Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
Agreed. People shouldn't be crappy. They shouldn't attack people who've had different experiences. They shouldn't exaggerate data to prove their point (to the point to ridiculousness). They shouldn't assume that everybody is being manipulative and evil and part of some sinister master plan that is out to get them.
Increasing prices by 300 percent by certain individuals to corner the market is good behaviour? LolVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
As a player who makes my gold primarily from farming resources, butt in chair, fingers on keyboard, I would not prefer bots.
Bots break the TOS. Yeah, it annoys me to compete with automated programs when I'm an actual player farming mats as intended. Butt in chair, fingers on keyboard. I never mind other players farming along my route, but bots? Its not just unfair, its against the rules of the game.
Bots automate some farms to the point of completely pricing players out of some markets. Its not worth it for me to gather certain mats because bots just do it more efficiently and drive the price rock bottom. Good examples are clean pelts and fleshfly larva.
No offense to you, but supporting bots so you can have cheaper prices comes at the expense of players who actually play the game as intended, farming resources for use or sale with their butt in the chair, fingers on the keyboard. Its not going to do a thing to stop item flippers or price gougers, but it is directly going to harm the players who actually farm as intended.
No thank you.
450 gold per cornflower was reasonable, price gauging up to 1000 gold per cornflower makes me prefer bots, sorry not sorry. There is no reason to jack up the price that much aside from unbridled greed.
Thanks for proving my point about crappy people.
Here's Corn Flower for good measure.
As you can see. I'm in 2 trade guilds, one of them the largest on PC/NA. and there isn't EVEN A SINGLE SALE FOR THE 1000 GOLD A PIECE YOU ARE CLAIMING.....
I hate liars.
TTC also recommends 450 gold per. However that is not the case if you look at all guilds across tamriel atm. Mm also only applies to two guilds in your case and does not offer NEARLY a complete picture of the problem atm. When I buy cornflower, which is at least every other day, the prices have gone from a reasonable 350-450 to 900-1100 per flower. There is a reason hardly anyone uses mm anymore. Also if that is the price you are selling for, then you would be the type of person I reward with my business. So the " crappy person syndrome" doesn't even apply to you.
listing price =! sales You can't use the two terms interchangeably.
MM is a better gauge of prices (even with a smaller sample size) because it's the actual sales of the items are listed.
TTC misses almost all of the good "deals" since they never get scanned in before they are bought, and will almost always show the higher prices items, since they move slowly, if at all. Yes, it has access to more information, but it is flawed just like MM is flawed.
If Corn Flower was selling for 900-1100, you would think there'd be at least 1 sale, in the 911 in my sample that was even approaching that cost. Yet, the highest is 50% less than that. That is being disingenuous at best. lying at worst.
Yes, keep calling me a liar. This was a quick sample from Rawlka and Vardenfell. 350-450 has been the standard price for years now. This is recent and has started in the last 3 weeks,
VaranisArano wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
Agreed. People shouldn't be crappy. They shouldn't attack people who've had different experiences. They shouldn't exaggerate data to prove their point (to the point to ridiculousness). They shouldn't assume that everybody is being manipulative and evil and part of some sinister master plan that is out to get them.
Increasing prices by 300 percent by certain individuals to corner the market is good behaviour? LolVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
As a player who makes my gold primarily from farming resources, butt in chair, fingers on keyboard, I would not prefer bots.
Bots break the TOS. Yeah, it annoys me to compete with automated programs when I'm an actual player farming mats as intended. Butt in chair, fingers on keyboard. I never mind other players farming along my route, but bots? Its not just unfair, its against the rules of the game.
Bots automate some farms to the point of completely pricing players out of some markets. Its not worth it for me to gather certain mats because bots just do it more efficiently and drive the price rock bottom. Good examples are clean pelts and fleshfly larva.
No offense to you, but supporting bots so you can have cheaper prices comes at the expense of players who actually play the game as intended, farming resources for use or sale with their butt in the chair, fingers on the keyboard. Its not going to do a thing to stop item flippers or price gougers, but it is directly going to harm the players who actually farm as intended.
No thank you.
450 gold per cornflower was reasonable, price gauging up to 1000 gold per cornflower makes me prefer bots, sorry not sorry. There is no reason to jack up the price that much aside from unbridled greed. I will continue to support players using reasonable prices with hundreds of thousands of gold per week and expanding my black list every time I see someone Bering incredibly greedy.
I...
How exactly do you expect bots to stop the greedy people from buying the mats the bots sell and then raising the prices?
It won't do a thing. Alchemy flowers aren't the sort of mat where bots can flood the market.
Price gougers will still be able to buy up the supply and relist it for whatever they want.
Supporting bots hurts the actual players who farm mats. It doesn't do a single thing to stop the price gougers.
So seriously, if you want to stop price gougers, look for a solution that doesn't hurt the players who are playing as intended. Bots aren't even going to give you the result you want, while in the meantime making it that much harder for the players who actually farm mats to sell.
I have made a solution. I have a list of people gauging prices, I have black listed them and will no longer support them at all. Only players using the average prices of the last few years will be getting my business.
People could argue you're being greedy and selfish by wanting others to provide for you at a loss to their own profit.450 gold per cornflower was reasonable, price gauging up to 1000 gold per cornflower makes me prefer bots, sorry not sorry. There is no reason to jack up the price that much aside from unbridled greed. I will continue to support players using reasonable prices with hundreds of thousands of gold per week and expanding my black list every time I see someone Bering incredibly greedy.
It's called supply and demand. When supply goes down and demand goes up, prices go up. It's Economics 101 friend. Yet you seem to expect prices to stay the same even if people are getting less of certain mats than they were before. You don't think people are entitled to charge more for mats that take more time and/or effort to get now? Just so *you* aren't inconvenienced by said price increase?
If it's too much for you to buy, maybe spend some time farming your mats yourself instead of demanding others stop being greedy and charge less for something for your benefit. After all if it's easy or not that time-consuming then surely you should have no problems getting your own stuff.
Also keep in mind that if prices go too high, people won't buy, and prices will go down over time. If prices are going up and staying there that means people are buying at that price because they're okay with it. Most of them probably realize people selling at these prices are people who have adjusted their prices to reflect that these mats take longer to get than they used to.
Yes, the people gauging prices suddenly over the last few weeks are not greedy, the people who have been loyally buying the mats for years at the avg prices are. xD
People always list stuff for higher... and stacks of 3... lol.. that's what you're basing your "high price" on... lol
Are we going to ignore the stacks of 200 there also that have 1000 gold per as the listing price? Should I get more pictures to prove you wrong and debunk your slander calling me a liar? You have provided me with information from 2 guilds, I have provided pictures from several guilds , and could provide many many more. I use corn flower VERY often, and I have seen the prices sky rocket in Alinor, Vvardenfell, Rawl Ka, Mournhold, Grahtwood, and various other spots.
But yeah, keep calling me a liar, even tho i just proved you wrong.
I think I'm starting to get it... you're gouging people on potion prices.. and this "increase" in prices is cutting into your profit margins!1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »TheFM,
I'm delighted you've got a solution that works for you!
However, you still don't get the problem with bots. Or perhaps you just don't care because it doesn't present a problem for you.
Columbine is a demand/supply problem with price gougers in the middle.
Demand, which was reasonable high already due to pots, increased, due to the Sugar Skulls food. Price goes up after event.
Supply, which was from farmers and Tel Var satchels, has decreased since Elsweyr due to the IC campaign changes. Prices goes up over time.
Price gougers see an opportunity to wiggle their way in by raising the price to meet what they see as increased demand.
Now add an extra supply of Columbine for players to use. Price drops.
But that new source, housing, is easy for bots to exploit without ever getting reported. Supply increases even more, prices drop even more.
But who benefits?
Bots benefit over actual farmers, because real players can't use the housing farming as efficiently as bots can.
Price gougers benefit over players who sell for reasonable prices because - short of a server wide boycott on the price routers - players are going to still buy at the inflated prices. Buyers are still going to face greedy, inflated prices.
You benefit because despite the price gougers carrying on, you'd boycott everyone who wasn't selling at the lowered prices depressed by the supply generated by bots instead of real players farming the new supply.
And therein lies my problem.
Sure, bots increasing supply would benefit you because you'd only buy at the lowered prices.
But as a result, actual farmers who don't price gouge are dealing with the depressed prices from the supply illegitimately created by TOS-breaking bots (and without even the ability to report those bots).
And the price gougers aren't inconvenienced at all, because to be perfectly blunt, they don't GAF about your personal boycott.
I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably care as all of them have a minimum of 400 players. I will also be calling them out on zone.
Edit
I have nothing but respect for people who farm mats, I know I couldn't do it, and my Playstyle and builds rely on them, otherwise they wouldn't function. I however have no respect for people who suddenly jack up the prices within two weeks, and those are the people I am calling out here. 450 gold per cornflower is reasonable as it is a pain to farm, but 1 k per is absurd, and deserves to be called out as so.Edited by TheFM on March 8, 2020 5:42PM3 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Yet you said in one of your posts the exact opposite, that you would support bots over actual players because of what you perceive as gouging when in reality people are pricing things at a higher cost because that's how supply and demand works. Several people have tried to explain this to you now but you seem determined to believe the worst of people simply because you're being inconvenienced by people appropriately pricing items based on the time and effort it takes to get them now.I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably care as all of them have a minimum of 400 players. I will also be calling them out on zone.
Why is it that literally everyone pricing these mats for 700-1k has to be a gouger? You're clearly 100% not willing to accept or acknowledge the farmers who are legit spending hours farming these things and deciding to make their time spent actually worthwhile.
Edited by Arunei on March 8, 2020 5:44PMPC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »TheFM,
I'm delighted you've got a solution that works for you!
However, you still don't get the problem with bots. Or perhaps you just don't care because it doesn't present a problem for you.
Columbine is a demand/supply problem with price gougers in the middle.
Demand, which was reasonable high already due to pots, increased, due to the Sugar Skulls food. Price goes up after event.
Supply, which was from farmers and Tel Var satchels, has decreased since Elsweyr due to the IC campaign changes. Prices goes up over time.
Price gougers see an opportunity to wiggle their way in by raising the price to meet what they see as increased demand.
Now add an extra supply of Columbine for players to use. Price drops.
But that new source, housing, is easy for bots to exploit without ever getting reported. Supply increases even more, prices drop even more.
But who benefits?
Bots benefit over actual farmers, because real players can't use the housing farming as efficiently as bots can.
Price gougers benefit over players who sell for reasonable prices because - short of a server wide boycott on the price routers - players are going to still buy at the inflated prices. Buyers are still going to face greedy, inflated prices.
You benefit because despite the price gougers carrying on, you'd boycott everyone who wasn't selling at the lowered prices depressed by the supply generated by bots instead of real players farming the new supply.
And therein lies my problem.
Sure, bots increasing supply would benefit you because you'd only buy at the lowered prices.
But as a result, actual farmers who don't price gouge are dealing with the depressed prices from the supply illegitimately created by TOS-breaking bots (and without even the ability to report those bots).
And the price gougers aren't inconvenienced at all, because to be perfectly blunt, they don't GAF about your personal boycott.
I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably are as LL of them have a minimum of 400 players.
That's fine.
This came up because of the Housing farm suggestions, which, while a good idea in abstract when used by actual players, starts to fall apart when you account for exploiting by bots.
If we're going to increase the supply of alchemy mats, its far better to do it in ways that will be used by actual players, not exploited by bots. Tel Var farming is a great example of a farm that can't be easily bottled. It would be easy for ZOS to increase the drop rates. Or ZOS could add something like the crafting parcels from the PVP conquest rewards to daily quests or dungeons in PVE.
But also, as I've stated, there's nothing that can be done about the practice of price gouging. Well, okay, on PC ZOS could remove TTC's ability to aggregate Item location data from the game and thus make it much, much harder for price gougers to accumulate their supply. Not impossible, but we'd certainly see a big drop in the amount of players willing to spend the time controlling an item with a relatively widespread supply like cornflower listings.
(Side note: its discussions like these that make me shake my head over the inevitable Auction House threads. Like, a central AH only makes it easier for price gougers and item flippers.)Edited by VaranisArano on March 8, 2020 5:51PM0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yet you said in one of your posts the exact opposite, that you would support bots over actual players because of what you perceive as gouging when in reality people are pricing things at a higher cost because that's how supply and demand works. Several people have tried to explain this to you now but you seem determined to believe the worst of people simply because you're being inconvenienced by people appropriately pricing items based on the time and effort it takes to get them now.I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably care as all of them have a minimum of 400 players. I will also be calling them out on zone.
Why is it that literally everyone pricing these mats for 700-1k has to be a gouger? You're clearly 100% not willing to accept or acknowledge the farmers who are legit spending hours farming these things and deciding to make their time spent actually worthwhile.
No, you are twisting my words. And cherry picking, so I will not be replying to you anymore because you are just baiting now. 350-450 was normal for years, and now it suddenly gets a 200-300 % hike, that is by definition gouging. Again, last reply as it is no longer constructive.VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »TheFM,
I'm delighted you've got a solution that works for you!
However, you still don't get the problem with bots. Or perhaps you just don't care because it doesn't present a problem for you.
Columbine is a demand/supply problem with price gougers in the middle.
Demand, which was reasonable high already due to pots, increased, due to the Sugar Skulls food. Price goes up after event.
Supply, which was from farmers and Tel Var satchels, has decreased since Elsweyr due to the IC campaign changes. Prices goes up over time.
Price gougers see an opportunity to wiggle their way in by raising the price to meet what they see as increased demand.
Now add an extra supply of Columbine for players to use. Price drops.
But that new source, housing, is easy for bots to exploit without ever getting reported. Supply increases even more, prices drop even more.
But who benefits?
Bots benefit over actual farmers, because real players can't use the housing farming as efficiently as bots can.
Price gougers benefit over players who sell for reasonable prices because - short of a server wide boycott on the price routers - players are going to still buy at the inflated prices. Buyers are still going to face greedy, inflated prices.
You benefit because despite the price gougers carrying on, you'd boycott everyone who wasn't selling at the lowered prices depressed by the supply generated by bots instead of real players farming the new supply.
And therein lies my problem.
Sure, bots increasing supply would benefit you because you'd only buy at the lowered prices.
But as a result, actual farmers who don't price gouge are dealing with the depressed prices from the supply illegitimately created by TOS-breaking bots (and without even the ability to report those bots).
And the price gougers aren't inconvenienced at all, because to be perfectly blunt, they don't GAF about your personal boycott.
I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably are as LL of them have a minimum of 400 players.
That's fine.
This came up because of the Housing farm suggestions, which, while a good idea in abstract when used by actual players, starts to fall apart when you account for exploiting by bots.
If we're going to increase the supply of alchemy mats, its far better to do it in ways that will be used by actual players, not exploited by bots. Tel Var farming is a great example of a farm that can't be easily bottled. It would be easy for ZOS to increase the drop rates. Or ZOS could add something like the crafting parcels from the PVP conquest rewards to daily quests or dungeons in PVE.
But also, as I've stated, there's nothing that can be done about the practice of price gouging. Well, okay, on PC ZOS could remove TTC's ability to aggregate Item location data from the game and thus make it much, much harder for price gougers to accumulate their supply. Not impossible, but we'd certainly see a big drop in the amount of players willing to spend the time controlling an item with a relatively widespread supply like cornflower listings.
(Side note: its discussions like these that make me shake my head over the inevitable Auction House threads. Like, a central AH only makes it easier for price gougers and item flippers.)
Yeah, gougers are now running scripts to inform them when ppl sell at normal prices so they can gobble them up and sell for crazy prices. Shady AF.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yet you said in one of your posts the exact opposite, that you would support bots over actual players because of what you perceive as gouging when in reality people are pricing things at a higher cost because that's how supply and demand works. Several people have tried to explain this to you now but you seem determined to believe the worst of people simply because you're being inconvenienced by people appropriately pricing items based on the time and effort it takes to get them now.I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably care as all of them have a minimum of 400 players. I will also be calling them out on zone.
Why is it that literally everyone pricing these mats for 700-1k has to be a gouger? You're clearly 100% not willing to accept or acknowledge the farmers who are legit spending hours farming these things and deciding to make their time spent actually worthwhile.
No, you are twisting my words. And cherry picking, so I will not be replying to you anymore because you are just baiting now. 350-450 was normal for years, and now it suddenly gets a 200-300 % hike, that is by definition gouging. Again, last reply as it is no longer constructive.VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »TheFM,
I'm delighted you've got a solution that works for you!
However, you still don't get the problem with bots. Or perhaps you just don't care because it doesn't present a problem for you.
Columbine is a demand/supply problem with price gougers in the middle.
Demand, which was reasonable high already due to pots, increased, due to the Sugar Skulls food. Price goes up after event.
Supply, which was from farmers and Tel Var satchels, has decreased since Elsweyr due to the IC campaign changes. Prices goes up over time.
Price gougers see an opportunity to wiggle their way in by raising the price to meet what they see as increased demand.
Now add an extra supply of Columbine for players to use. Price drops.
But that new source, housing, is easy for bots to exploit without ever getting reported. Supply increases even more, prices drop even more.
But who benefits?
Bots benefit over actual farmers, because real players can't use the housing farming as efficiently as bots can.
Price gougers benefit over players who sell for reasonable prices because - short of a server wide boycott on the price routers - players are going to still buy at the inflated prices. Buyers are still going to face greedy, inflated prices.
You benefit because despite the price gougers carrying on, you'd boycott everyone who wasn't selling at the lowered prices depressed by the supply generated by bots instead of real players farming the new supply.
And therein lies my problem.
Sure, bots increasing supply would benefit you because you'd only buy at the lowered prices.
But as a result, actual farmers who don't price gouge are dealing with the depressed prices from the supply illegitimately created by TOS-breaking bots (and without even the ability to report those bots).
And the price gougers aren't inconvenienced at all, because to be perfectly blunt, they don't GAF about your personal boycott.
I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably are as LL of them have a minimum of 400 players.
That's fine.
This came up because of the Housing farm suggestions, which, while a good idea in abstract when used by actual players, starts to fall apart when you account for exploiting by bots.
If we're going to increase the supply of alchemy mats, its far better to do it in ways that will be used by actual players, not exploited by bots. Tel Var farming is a great example of a farm that can't be easily bottled. It would be easy for ZOS to increase the drop rates. Or ZOS could add something like the crafting parcels from the PVP conquest rewards to daily quests or dungeons in PVE.
But also, as I've stated, there's nothing that can be done about the practice of price gouging. Well, okay, on PC ZOS could remove TTC's ability to aggregate Item location data from the game and thus make it much, much harder for price gougers to accumulate their supply. Not impossible, but we'd certainly see a big drop in the amount of players willing to spend the time controlling an item with a relatively widespread supply like cornflower listings.
(Side note: its discussions like these that make me shake my head over the inevitable Auction House threads. Like, a central AH only makes it easier for price gougers and item flippers.)
Yeah, gougers are now running scripts to inform them when ppl sell at normal prices so they can gobble them up and sell for crazy prices. Shady AF.
Hmm... what add-on allows them to know the price of anything listed in any guild at any time? TTC. It should probably be banned then in that case. MM certainly doesn't, it's only the guilds you're in. I don't know about ATT.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points2 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm not twisting or baiting anything, I'm going by what you yourself said in a previous post. You said you would prefer the bots, which is in essence supporting them over normal legit players.
Yet you said in one of your posts the exact opposite, that you would support bots over actual players because of what you perceive as gouging when in reality people are pricing things at a higher cost because that's how supply and demand works. Several people have tried to explain this to you now but you seem determined to believe the worst of people simply because you're being inconvenienced by people appropriately pricing items based on the time and effort it takes to get them now.I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably care as all of them have a minimum of 400 players. I will also be calling them out on zone.
Why is it that literally everyone pricing these mats for 700-1k has to be a gouger? You're clearly 100% not willing to accept or acknowledge the farmers who are legit spending hours farming these things and deciding to make their time spent actually worthwhile.
No, you are twisting my words. And cherry picking, so I will not be replying to you anymore because you are just baiting now. 350-450 was normal for years, and now it suddenly gets a 200-300 % hike, that is by definition gouging. Again, last reply as it is no longer constructive.
I keep asking why you automatically assume people charging more are gougers instead of people actually charging more for the work they're putting in to get mats that aren't as accessible as they were in the past. You can sit here and claim that "it was this price for years" but that means nothing in the face of supply and demand. Supply and demand doesn't care how long something was any given way, all it cares about is when things change and thus sway it one way or the other. But if you'd rather claim I'm cherry picking when I've been quoting and debating literally the entirety of your posts, rather than actually answering my questions, then you do you. It won't change the fact that you clearly want to automatically not only think the worst of everyone not charging what you think is the only fair price, but by your own words are willing to label everyone as a gouger even when they might just be a legit farmer making their time actually worthwhile.PC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
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Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, gougers are now running scripts to inform them when ppl sell at normal prices so they can gobble them up and sell for crazy prices. Shady AF.
I mean, as long as ZOS allows those functions to be present in the API for add-ons like TTC to pull on, there's technically nothing wrong with it. ZOS can change that if they want, but so far their concern with addons like MM and TTC has been to minimize how often they can query the servers, not what type of info they can query.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
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Yet you said in one of your posts the exact opposite, that you would support bots over actual players because of what you perceive as gouging when in reality people are pricing things at a higher cost because that's how supply and demand works. Several people have tried to explain this to you now but you seem determined to believe the worst of people simply because you're being inconvenienced by people appropriately pricing items based on the time and effort it takes to get them now.I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably care as all of them have a minimum of 400 players. I will also be calling them out on zone.
Why is it that literally everyone pricing these mats for 700-1k has to be a gouger? You're clearly 100% not willing to accept or acknowledge the farmers who are legit spending hours farming these things and deciding to make their time spent actually worthwhile.
No, you are twisting my words. And cherry picking, so I will not be replying to you anymore because you are just baiting now. 350-450 was normal for years, and now it suddenly gets a 200-300 % hike, that is by definition gouging. Again, last reply as it is no longer constructive.VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »TheFM,
I'm delighted you've got a solution that works for you!
However, you still don't get the problem with bots. Or perhaps you just don't care because it doesn't present a problem for you.
Columbine is a demand/supply problem with price gougers in the middle.
Demand, which was reasonable high already due to pots, increased, due to the Sugar Skulls food. Price goes up after event.
Supply, which was from farmers and Tel Var satchels, has decreased since Elsweyr due to the IC campaign changes. Prices goes up over time.
Price gougers see an opportunity to wiggle their way in by raising the price to meet what they see as increased demand.
Now add an extra supply of Columbine for players to use. Price drops.
But that new source, housing, is easy for bots to exploit without ever getting reported. Supply increases even more, prices drop even more.
But who benefits?
Bots benefit over actual farmers, because real players can't use the housing farming as efficiently as bots can.
Price gougers benefit over players who sell for reasonable prices because - short of a server wide boycott on the price routers - players are going to still buy at the inflated prices. Buyers are still going to face greedy, inflated prices.
You benefit because despite the price gougers carrying on, you'd boycott everyone who wasn't selling at the lowered prices depressed by the supply generated by bots instead of real players farming the new supply.
And therein lies my problem.
Sure, bots increasing supply would benefit you because you'd only buy at the lowered prices.
But as a result, actual farmers who don't price gouge are dealing with the depressed prices from the supply illegitimately created by TOS-breaking bots (and without even the ability to report those bots).
And the price gougers aren't inconvenienced at all, because to be perfectly blunt, they don't GAF about your personal boycott.
I never said I like bots, I detest them, I however also detest price gougers more. I wouldn't support bots if I knew they were bots, but I was simply pointing out that I find them less detestable than people gouging the prices. I will also be sharing the names of said price gougers in my guilds soon, and then they'll probably are as LL of them have a minimum of 400 players.
That's fine.
This came up because of the Housing farm suggestions, which, while a good idea in abstract when used by actual players, starts to fall apart when you account for exploiting by bots.
If we're going to increase the supply of alchemy mats, its far better to do it in ways that will be used by actual players, not exploited by bots. Tel Var farming is a great example of a farm that can't be easily bottled. It would be easy for ZOS to increase the drop rates. Or ZOS could add something like the crafting parcels from the PVP conquest rewards to daily quests or dungeons in PVE.
But also, as I've stated, there's nothing that can be done about the practice of price gouging. Well, okay, on PC ZOS could remove TTC's ability to aggregate Item location data from the game and thus make it much, much harder for price gougers to accumulate their supply. Not impossible, but we'd certainly see a big drop in the amount of players willing to spend the time controlling an item with a relatively widespread supply like cornflower listings.
(Side note: its discussions like these that make me shake my head over the inevitable Auction House threads. Like, a central AH only makes it easier for price gougers and item flippers.)
Yeah, gougers are now running scripts to inform them when ppl sell at normal prices so they can gobble them up and sell for crazy prices. Shady AF.
Hmm... what add-on allows them to know the price of anything listed in any guild at any time? TTC. It should probably be banned then in that case. MM certainly doesn't, it's only the guilds you're in. I don't know about ATT.
I have no idea how scripts work. I know people who make basic scripts that log them automatically in to their accounts in game, and they have also said they were able to easily make scripts to ping the TTC website whenever something is listed for lower than said prices.
No idea how it works, but considering how fast the cornflowers disappear at avg price, like within 1 minute, its clear something along those lines are happening.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
Agreed. People shouldn't be crappy. They shouldn't attack people who've had different experiences. They shouldn't exaggerate data to prove their point (to the point to ridiculousness). They shouldn't assume that everybody is being manipulative and evil and part of some sinister master plan that is out to get them.
Increasing prices by 300 percent by certain individuals to corner the market is good behaviour? LolVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
As a player who makes my gold primarily from farming resources, butt in chair, fingers on keyboard, I would not prefer bots.
Bots break the TOS. Yeah, it annoys me to compete with automated programs when I'm an actual player farming mats as intended. Butt in chair, fingers on keyboard. I never mind other players farming along my route, but bots? Its not just unfair, its against the rules of the game.
Bots automate some farms to the point of completely pricing players out of some markets. Its not worth it for me to gather certain mats because bots just do it more efficiently and drive the price rock bottom. Good examples are clean pelts and fleshfly larva.
No offense to you, but supporting bots so you can have cheaper prices comes at the expense of players who actually play the game as intended, farming resources for use or sale with their butt in the chair, fingers on the keyboard. Its not going to do a thing to stop item flippers or price gougers, but it is directly going to harm the players who actually farm as intended.
No thank you.
450 gold per cornflower was reasonable, price gauging up to 1000 gold per cornflower makes me prefer bots, sorry not sorry. There is no reason to jack up the price that much aside from unbridled greed.
Thanks for proving my point about crappy people.
Here's Corn Flower for good measure.
As you can see. I'm in 2 trade guilds, one of them the largest on PC/NA. and there isn't EVEN A SINGLE SALE FOR THE 1000 GOLD A PIECE YOU ARE CLAIMING.....
I hate liars.
TTC also recommends 450 gold per. However that is not the case if you look at all guilds across tamriel atm. Mm also only applies to two guilds in your case and does not offer NEARLY a complete picture of the problem atm. When I buy cornflower, which is at least every other day, the prices have gone from a reasonable 350-450 to 900-1100 per flower. There is a reason hardly anyone uses mm anymore. Also if that is the price you are selling for, then you would be the type of person I reward with my business. So the " crappy person syndrome" doesn't even apply to you.
listing price =! sales You can't use the two terms interchangeably.
MM is a better gauge of prices (even with a smaller sample size) because it's the actual sales of the items are listed.
TTC misses almost all of the good "deals" since they never get scanned in before they are bought, and will almost always show the higher prices items, since they move slowly, if at all. Yes, it has access to more information, but it is flawed just like MM is flawed.
If Corn Flower was selling for 900-1100, you would think there'd be at least 1 sale, in the 911 in my sample that was even approaching that cost. Yet, the highest is 50% less than that. That is being disingenuous at best. lying at worst.
Yes, keep calling me a liar. This was a quick sample from Rawlka and Vardenfell. 350-450 has been the standard price for years now. This is recent and has started in the last 3 weeks,VaranisArano wrote: »Disturbed_One wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
Agreed. People shouldn't be crappy. They shouldn't attack people who've had different experiences. They shouldn't exaggerate data to prove their point (to the point to ridiculousness). They shouldn't assume that everybody is being manipulative and evil and part of some sinister master plan that is out to get them.
Increasing prices by 300 percent by certain individuals to corner the market is good behaviour? LolVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Time for Alchemy Hireling.
Or a more creative idea: gardening as a part of housing. Planting my own garden and watering it every day to harvest it later. Might be good tool to prevent spikes in prices of very specific alchemy mats such as Corn Flower or Columbine.
Yeah, we need this desperately, something needs or be done to cap the prices of ingredients, no normal player can afford these ingredients with these bloated prices.
Is this a bad time to mention that the Anniversary Event is coming up when everyone and their alts runs as many crafting writs as they can? For all that we get alchemy reagents back from writ rewards, demand is very likely to spike.
My one concern with combining Housing and resources mats of any type is the ability of bots to abuse it.
At this point I would prefer bots over people displaying disgusting crappy human syndrome.
As a player who makes my gold primarily from farming resources, butt in chair, fingers on keyboard, I would not prefer bots.
Bots break the TOS. Yeah, it annoys me to compete with automated programs when I'm an actual player farming mats as intended. Butt in chair, fingers on keyboard. I never mind other players farming along my route, but bots? Its not just unfair, its against the rules of the game.
Bots automate some farms to the point of completely pricing players out of some markets. Its not worth it for me to gather certain mats because bots just do it more efficiently and drive the price rock bottom. Good examples are clean pelts and fleshfly larva.
No offense to you, but supporting bots so you can have cheaper prices comes at the expense of players who actually play the game as intended, farming resources for use or sale with their butt in the chair, fingers on the keyboard. Its not going to do a thing to stop item flippers or price gougers, but it is directly going to harm the players who actually farm as intended.
No thank you.
450 gold per cornflower was reasonable, price gauging up to 1000 gold per cornflower makes me prefer bots, sorry not sorry. There is no reason to jack up the price that much aside from unbridled greed. I will continue to support players using reasonable prices with hundreds of thousands of gold per week and expanding my black list every time I see someone Bering incredibly greedy.
I...
How exactly do you expect bots to stop the greedy people from buying the mats the bots sell and then raising the prices?
It won't do a thing. Alchemy flowers aren't the sort of mat where bots can flood the market.
Price gougers will still be able to buy up the supply and relist it for whatever they want.
Supporting bots hurts the actual players who farm mats. It doesn't do a single thing to stop the price gougers.
So seriously, if you want to stop price gougers, look for a solution that doesn't hurt the players who are playing as intended. Bots aren't even going to give you the result you want, while in the meantime making it that much harder for the players who actually farm mats to sell.
I have made a solution. I have a list of people gauging prices, I have black listed them and will no longer support them at all. Only players using the average prices of the last few years will be getting my business.
People could argue you're being greedy and selfish by wanting others to provide for you at a loss to their own profit.450 gold per cornflower was reasonable, price gauging up to 1000 gold per cornflower makes me prefer bots, sorry not sorry. There is no reason to jack up the price that much aside from unbridled greed. I will continue to support players using reasonable prices with hundreds of thousands of gold per week and expanding my black list every time I see someone Bering incredibly greedy.
It's called supply and demand. When supply goes down and demand goes up, prices go up. It's Economics 101 friend. Yet you seem to expect prices to stay the same even if people are getting less of certain mats than they were before. You don't think people are entitled to charge more for mats that take more time and/or effort to get now? Just so *you* aren't inconvenienced by said price increase?
If it's too much for you to buy, maybe spend some time farming your mats yourself instead of demanding others stop being greedy and charge less for something for your benefit. After all if it's easy or not that time-consuming then surely you should have no problems getting your own stuff.
Also keep in mind that if prices go too high, people won't buy, and prices will go down over time. If prices are going up and staying there that means people are buying at that price because they're okay with it. Most of them probably realize people selling at these prices are people who have adjusted their prices to reflect that these mats take longer to get than they used to.
Yes, the people gauging prices suddenly over the last few weeks are not greedy, the people who have been loyally buying the mats for years at the avg prices are. xD
People always list stuff for higher... and stacks of 3... lol.. that's what you're basing your "high price" on... lol
Are we going to ignore the stacks of 200 there also that have 1000 gold per as the listing price? Should I get more pictures to prove you wrong and debunk your slander calling me a liar? You have provided me with information from 2 guilds, I have provided pictures from several guilds , and could provide many many more. I use corn flower VERY often, and I have seen the prices sky rocket in Alinor, Vvardenfell, Rawl Ka, Mournhold, Grahtwood, and various other spots.
But yeah, keep calling me a liar, even tho i just proved you wrong.
I think I'm starting to get it... you're gouging people on potion prices.. and this "increase" in prices is cutting into your profit margins!
Lol wut? I dont even sell pots. I sell ingredients at the average price that they have been sold at for years. And if i sell them in stores, they get bought up super quick, and I dont know who purchased them. Its very possible it is one of those people that sells them at outrageous prices, so if I sell them in zone chat, I can check my blacklist and make sure its not one of them purchasing it.0 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭BGs are balanced at last so all those cheesy premades are making more tripots lolPC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk0 -
Disturbed_One✭✭✭✭Also, this whole thing about a "blacklist" of people who are not selling things at your definition of a fair price has a very "middle school" cringe factor to it. It's actually scary.5
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Nova Sky✭✭✭✭✭It's my understanding that ZOS launched nuclear strikes on bot strongholds a month or so ago, devastating their cities and decimating their populations ...
Furthermore, I've played ESO since its PC/Mac launch, and I can remember mat prices being even higher than they are now. At one point, some years ago, Columbine was going in the 700 to 1000 range per plant. Cornflower? Well, that's *always* been insane, price-wise."Wheresoever you go, go with all of your heart."1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's my understanding that ZOS launched nuclear strikes on bot strongholds a month or so ago, devastating their cities and decimating their populations ...
Furthermore, I've played ESO since its PC/Mac launch, and I can remember mat prices being even higher than they are now. At one point, some years ago, Columbine was going in the 700 to 1000 range per plant. Cornflower? Well, that's *always* been insane, price-wise.
I honestly can't remember it being that high for at least a year, but then again I only started using it religiously since about a year ago. I would be willing to do 500 a pop. But 1000 is crazy0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's my understanding that ZOS launched nuclear strikes on bot strongholds a month or so ago, devastating their cities and decimating their populations ...
Furthermore, I've played ESO since its PC/Mac launch, and I can remember mat prices being even higher than they are now. At one point, some years ago, Columbine was going in the 700 to 1000 range per plant. Cornflower? Well, that's *always* been insane, price-wise.
I honestly can't remember it being that high for at least a year, but then again I only started using it religiously since about a year ago. I would be willing to do 500 a pop. But 1000 is crazy
The last major spike I recall was Columbine prices climbing pretty high before ZOS introduced alchemy satchels to Imperial City. That leveled it out, though prices remained higher than other mats because of the steady demand for potions. The new demand for Bewitched Sugar Skulls probably accounts for at least some of the recent rise in prices - and as per how demand and prices work, the price can continue rising until players as a whole won't buy at a certain price.0 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm under the impression that this person doesn't actually care about anything other than their own convenience when it comes to getting Cornflower. They seem absolutely unwilling to consider that people not selling things at a "reasonable" price (which is entirely subjective because everyone in this game decides what's reasonable for them based on a variety of things, so for anyone to act like their idea of reasonable is the only one that's right is arrogant) aren't all gougers who want to be greedy and money hungry. They've said themselves they intend to "call out" anyone in zone who they see 'gouging', even though most of these people are likely just trying to make their farming effort actually profitable.Disturbed_One wrote: »So... you sell ingredients "at the price they've been sold for years" Then why do you need Corn Flower "daily" (I think that was your quote). Unless you need them for alchemy writs (which is dumb, because max level doesn't use corn flower). Or you had a racket going where you could buy low and sell higher yourself. Or, you're selling pots.
(If you need them for your own purposes, like raiding or PVP, might I suggest doing some max level alchemy writs, pretty soon you'll be swimming in corn flower from the surveys/drops)
Your story doesn't make any sense. If it smells like crap. And it tastes like crap. It's crap. And I smell something very crappy here.
I honestly don't understand this mentality. If someone doesn't want to pay x amount for any given item that's their choice, but to jump on everyone for being a gouger just because they don't sell things at what someone else thinks is a fair price is crazy. It's one thing with people trying to sell a situated item for thousands and thousands and thousands of gold more than it's worth, but this is an increase of a few hundred gold. If people are doing so much content that they need to buy these amounts of mats, aren't they earning enough gold to cover the overall increase in price for mats?
I also don't understand the thought process behind "I don't want to spend 30k on mats to make my potions but I want the seller to effectively make only 15 or 20k despite the work they might be putting into getting these mats". Instead of just assuming people are out to put everyone else through the wringer, people really should consider the fact that there are very likely people behind these accounts spending their time farming.
And the simple fact is if people don't want to pay, they can farm the mats themselves. If they don't want to or have limited time and can't, well, you have to pay people for the time they're spending doing what you won't or can't.
I’ve had someone complain my store was greedy for upping our personal brand of soda from 76¢ to 90¢. Sounds like the same kinda person tbh2 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Contaminate wrote: »
I'm under the impression that this person doesn't actually care about anything other than their own convenience when it comes to getting Cornflower. They seem absolutely unwilling to consider that people not selling things at a "reasonable" price (which is entirely subjective because everyone in this game decides what's reasonable for them based on a variety of things, so for anyone to act like their idea of reasonable is the only one that's right is arrogant) aren't all gougers who want to be greedy and money hungry. They've said themselves they intend to "call out" anyone in zone who they see 'gouging', even though most of these people are likely just trying to make their farming effort actually profitable.Disturbed_One wrote: »So... you sell ingredients "at the price they've been sold for years" Then why do you need Corn Flower "daily" (I think that was your quote). Unless you need them for alchemy writs (which is dumb, because max level doesn't use corn flower). Or you had a racket going where you could buy low and sell higher yourself. Or, you're selling pots.
(If you need them for your own purposes, like raiding or PVP, might I suggest doing some max level alchemy writs, pretty soon you'll be swimming in corn flower from the surveys/drops)
Your story doesn't make any sense. If it smells like crap. And it tastes like crap. It's crap. And I smell something very crappy here.
I honestly don't understand this mentality. If someone doesn't want to pay x amount for any given item that's their choice, but to jump on everyone for being a gouger just because they don't sell things at what someone else thinks is a fair price is crazy. It's one thing with people trying to sell a situated item for thousands and thousands and thousands of gold more than it's worth, but this is an increase of a few hundred gold. If people are doing so much content that they need to buy these amounts of mats, aren't they earning enough gold to cover the overall increase in price for mats?
I also don't understand the thought process behind "I don't want to spend 30k on mats to make my potions but I want the seller to effectively make only 15 or 20k despite the work they might be putting into getting these mats". Instead of just assuming people are out to put everyone else through the wringer, people really should consider the fact that there are very likely people behind these accounts spending their time farming.
And the simple fact is if people don't want to pay, they can farm the mats themselves. If they don't want to or have limited time and can't, well, you have to pay people for the time they're spending doing what you won't or can't.
I’ve had someone complain my store was greedy for upping our personal brand of soda from 76¢ to 90¢. Sounds like the same kinda person tbh
Not really, it'd be like if you raised your prices from .76 to 1.50 or even 2.25 for no reason.Edited by TheFM on March 8, 2020 7:58PM0 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭Contaminate wrote: »
I'm under the impression that this person doesn't actually care about anything other than their own convenience when it comes to getting Cornflower. They seem absolutely unwilling to consider that people not selling things at a "reasonable" price (which is entirely subjective because everyone in this game decides what's reasonable for them based on a variety of things, so for anyone to act like their idea of reasonable is the only one that's right is arrogant) aren't all gougers who want to be greedy and money hungry. They've said themselves they intend to "call out" anyone in zone who they see 'gouging', even though most of these people are likely just trying to make their farming effort actually profitable.Disturbed_One wrote: »So... you sell ingredients "at the price they've been sold for years" Then why do you need Corn Flower "daily" (I think that was your quote). Unless you need them for alchemy writs (which is dumb, because max level doesn't use corn flower). Or you had a racket going where you could buy low and sell higher yourself. Or, you're selling pots.
(If you need them for your own purposes, like raiding or PVP, might I suggest doing some max level alchemy writs, pretty soon you'll be swimming in corn flower from the surveys/drops)
Your story doesn't make any sense. If it smells like crap. And it tastes like crap. It's crap. And I smell something very crappy here.
I honestly don't understand this mentality. If someone doesn't want to pay x amount for any given item that's their choice, but to jump on everyone for being a gouger just because they don't sell things at what someone else thinks is a fair price is crazy. It's one thing with people trying to sell a situated item for thousands and thousands and thousands of gold more than it's worth, but this is an increase of a few hundred gold. If people are doing so much content that they need to buy these amounts of mats, aren't they earning enough gold to cover the overall increase in price for mats?
I also don't understand the thought process behind "I don't want to spend 30k on mats to make my potions but I want the seller to effectively make only 15 or 20k despite the work they might be putting into getting these mats". Instead of just assuming people are out to put everyone else through the wringer, people really should consider the fact that there are very likely people behind these accounts spending their time farming.
And the simple fact is if people don't want to pay, they can farm the mats themselves. If they don't want to or have limited time and can't, well, you have to pay people for the time they're spending doing what you won't or can't.
I’ve had someone complain my store was greedy for upping our personal brand of soda from 76¢ to 90¢. Sounds like the same kinda person tbh
Not really, it'd be like if you raised your prices from .76 to 1.50 or even 2.25 for no reason.
No, it’d still be ridiculous to claim someone’s greedy for changing a price on a complete luxury item. You can not buy it, you can go to a different brand, you can even make your own soda if you really want.
Same as you can easily farm your own mats instead of crying about players not selling you theirs for cheap.Edited by Contaminate on March 8, 2020 8:02PM4 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Contaminate wrote: »Contaminate wrote: »
I'm under the impression that this person doesn't actually care about anything other than their own convenience when it comes to getting Cornflower. They seem absolutely unwilling to consider that people not selling things at a "reasonable" price (which is entirely subjective because everyone in this game decides what's reasonable for them based on a variety of things, so for anyone to act like their idea of reasonable is the only one that's right is arrogant) aren't all gougers who want to be greedy and money hungry. They've said themselves they intend to "call out" anyone in zone who they see 'gouging', even though most of these people are likely just trying to make their farming effort actually profitable.Disturbed_One wrote: »So... you sell ingredients "at the price they've been sold for years" Then why do you need Corn Flower "daily" (I think that was your quote). Unless you need them for alchemy writs (which is dumb, because max level doesn't use corn flower). Or you had a racket going where you could buy low and sell higher yourself. Or, you're selling pots.
(If you need them for your own purposes, like raiding or PVP, might I suggest doing some max level alchemy writs, pretty soon you'll be swimming in corn flower from the surveys/drops)
Your story doesn't make any sense. If it smells like crap. And it tastes like crap. It's crap. And I smell something very crappy here.
I honestly don't understand this mentality. If someone doesn't want to pay x amount for any given item that's their choice, but to jump on everyone for being a gouger just because they don't sell things at what someone else thinks is a fair price is crazy. It's one thing with people trying to sell a situated item for thousands and thousands and thousands of gold more than it's worth, but this is an increase of a few hundred gold. If people are doing so much content that they need to buy these amounts of mats, aren't they earning enough gold to cover the overall increase in price for mats?
I also don't understand the thought process behind "I don't want to spend 30k on mats to make my potions but I want the seller to effectively make only 15 or 20k despite the work they might be putting into getting these mats". Instead of just assuming people are out to put everyone else through the wringer, people really should consider the fact that there are very likely people behind these accounts spending their time farming.
And the simple fact is if people don't want to pay, they can farm the mats themselves. If they don't want to or have limited time and can't, well, you have to pay people for the time they're spending doing what you won't or can't.
I’ve had someone complain my store was greedy for upping our personal brand of soda from 76¢ to 90¢. Sounds like the same kinda person tbh
Not really, it'd be like if you raised your prices from .76 to 1.50 or even 2.25 for no reason.
No, it’d still be ridiculous to claim someone’s greedy for changing a price on a complete luxury item. You can not buy it, you can go to a different brand, you can even make your own soda if you really want.
Same as you can easily farm your own mats instead of crying about players not selling you theirs for cheap.
exposing people for price gouging for two to three times the average price is not crying for people to sell for cheap. Cheap would be saying sell for less than average. Increasing prices for no reason and buying up all the competition in an attempt to corner the market is artificially inflating prices and pure greed.Edited by TheFM on March 8, 2020 8:08PM1 -
Disturbed_One✭✭✭✭Contaminate wrote: »Contaminate wrote: »
I'm under the impression that this person doesn't actually care about anything other than their own convenience when it comes to getting Cornflower. They seem absolutely unwilling to consider that people not selling things at a "reasonable" price (which is entirely subjective because everyone in this game decides what's reasonable for them based on a variety of things, so for anyone to act like their idea of reasonable is the only one that's right is arrogant) aren't all gougers who want to be greedy and money hungry. They've said themselves they intend to "call out" anyone in zone who they see 'gouging', even though most of these people are likely just trying to make their farming effort actually profitable.Disturbed_One wrote: »So... you sell ingredients "at the price they've been sold for years" Then why do you need Corn Flower "daily" (I think that was your quote). Unless you need them for alchemy writs (which is dumb, because max level doesn't use corn flower). Or you had a racket going where you could buy low and sell higher yourself. Or, you're selling pots.
(If you need them for your own purposes, like raiding or PVP, might I suggest doing some max level alchemy writs, pretty soon you'll be swimming in corn flower from the surveys/drops)
Your story doesn't make any sense. If it smells like crap. And it tastes like crap. It's crap. And I smell something very crappy here.
I honestly don't understand this mentality. If someone doesn't want to pay x amount for any given item that's their choice, but to jump on everyone for being a gouger just because they don't sell things at what someone else thinks is a fair price is crazy. It's one thing with people trying to sell a situated item for thousands and thousands and thousands of gold more than it's worth, but this is an increase of a few hundred gold. If people are doing so much content that they need to buy these amounts of mats, aren't they earning enough gold to cover the overall increase in price for mats?
I also don't understand the thought process behind "I don't want to spend 30k on mats to make my potions but I want the seller to effectively make only 15 or 20k despite the work they might be putting into getting these mats". Instead of just assuming people are out to put everyone else through the wringer, people really should consider the fact that there are very likely people behind these accounts spending their time farming.
And the simple fact is if people don't want to pay, they can farm the mats themselves. If they don't want to or have limited time and can't, well, you have to pay people for the time they're spending doing what you won't or can't.
I’ve had someone complain my store was greedy for upping our personal brand of soda from 76¢ to 90¢. Sounds like the same kinda person tbh
Not really, it'd be like if you raised your prices from .76 to 1.50 or even 2.25 for no reason.
No, it’d still be ridiculous to claim someone’s greedy for changing a price on a complete luxury item. You can not buy it, you can go to a different brand, you can even make your own soda if you really want.
Same as you can easily farm your own mats instead of crying about players not selling you theirs for cheap.
exposing people for price gouging for two to three times the average price is not crying for people to sell for cheap. Cheap would be saying sell for less than average. Increasing prices for no reason and buying up all the competition in an attempt to corner the market is artificially inflating prices and pure greed.
Sigh....
People have given numerous reasons.. yet you still claim "no reason"
You talk about prices going up by 2-3 times. Yet by your own admission you say that 450 gold each is a "fair" price. Yet, you've only shown a few LISTINGS around 1000 gold, (most listings are between 450-600 gold here on PC/NA, so AT MOST a 50% increase) nothing that proves it's selling for that.
You are being extremely disingenuous. Just admit it, you had a good thing going, somehow making gold on the old prices, and now it's gone and you're upset. That's the only logical explanation for your fanaticism about this.6 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And this is why we need to explain to our kids what economics are and how they work.
Otherwise we get people who are not willing to understand that economy is not a static thing and the concept of "average price" does not mean that an item will cost that much for all eternity.
typoEdited by Royaji on March 8, 2020 8:48PM6 -
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And this is why we need to explain to our kids what economics are and how they work.
Otherwise we get people who are not willing to understand that economy is not a static thing and the concept of "average price" does not mean that an item will cost that much for all eternity.
typo
There is a difference between normal fluctuations in price, and artificially inflating prices and buying up products to purposefully inflate prices.2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And this is why we need to explain to our kids what economics are and how they work.
Otherwise we get people who are not willing to understand that economy is not a static thing and the concept of "average price" does not mean that an item will cost that much for all eternity.
typo
There is a difference between normal fluctuations in price, and artificially inflating prices and buying up products to purposefully inflate prices.
Events that have had some effect on the price of alchemy materials in general and columbine specifically have been explained to you multiple times. I'll be so kind to list them once again.
- Reduction in amount of IC instances hurt the effectivness of Tel Var farming, thus reducing the supply.
- ZOS has recently purged a lot of bots, thus reducing the supply.
- Provisioning recepies which require columbine have become the new BiS food, thus increasing the demand.
- Minor Heroism potions became more popular, thus increasing the demand.
This includes just the events affecting columbine directly. But of course indirect effects like gold inflation due to massive amounts of gold entering the economy after Guild Trader not-swap fiasco have also had their toll.6 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And this is why we need to explain to our kids what economics are and how they work.
Otherwise we get people who are not willing to understand that economy is not a static thing and the concept of "average price" does not mean that an item will cost that much for all eternity.
typo
There is a difference between normal fluctuations in price, and artificially inflating prices and buying up products to purposefully inflate prices.
Events that have had some effect on the price of alchemy materials in general and columbine specifically have been explained to you multiple times. I'll be so kind to list them once again.
- Reduction in amount of IC instances hurt the effectivness of Tel Var farming, thus reducing the supply.
- ZOS has recently purged a lot of bots, thus reducing the supply.
- Provisioning recepies which require columbine have become the new BiS food, thus increasing the demand.
- Minor Heroism potions became more popular, thus increasing the demand.
This includes just the events affecting columbine directly. But of course indirect effects like gold inflation due to massive amounts of gold entering the economy after Guild Trader not-swap fiasco have also had their toll.
You're the first person that a really took the time to calmly explain this to me. I can understand alight increase because of said events, but still, 200-300 percent increases are about nutters imo.1 -
Disturbed_One✭✭✭✭And this is why we need to explain to our kids what economics are and how they work.
Otherwise we get people who are not willing to understand that economy is not a static thing and the concept of "average price" does not mean that an item will cost that much for all eternity.
typo
There is a difference between normal fluctuations in price, and artificially inflating prices and buying up products to purposefully inflate prices.
Events that have had some effect on the price of alchemy materials in general and columbine specifically have been explained to you multiple times. I'll be so kind to list them once again.
- Reduction in amount of IC instances hurt the effectivness of Tel Var farming, thus reducing the supply.
- ZOS has recently purged a lot of bots, thus reducing the supply.
- Provisioning recepies which require columbine have become the new BiS food, thus increasing the demand.
- Minor Heroism potions became more popular, thus increasing the demand.
This includes just the events affecting columbine directly. But of course indirect effects like gold inflation due to massive amounts of gold entering the economy after Guild Trader not-swap fiasco have also had their toll.
You're the first person that a really took the time to calmly explain this to me. I can understand alight increase because of said events, but still, 200-300 percent increases are about nutters imo.
That's rich.. you personally attack, demean, belittle and insult anybody who doesn't agree with you.
Yet, you'll only finally listen to something when it's "calmly" explained to you. (and still repeat your patently and proven, false claim of 200-300% increase)
Hilarious.9