I honestly wouldnt mind if they took the entire game down for a few days to fix it.... but that's never gonna happen 😂
Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
To me it seems they only test on internal servers. If they would've tested this " fix " on random pcs world wide they would've known how busted it is.
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Except even with low population akin to the PTS pop, you get lag and busted mechanics now on live. Its quite clear they put something in that was not tested at all. They could simply play their own game atm on random pcs around the world and see what the problems are during primetime, instead they cling to their closed servers.
So the big question is how many hours did you spend testing on the PTS this past cycle.
Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
To me it seems they only test on internal servers. If they would've tested this " fix " on random pcs world wide they would've known how busted it is.
@TheFM Not the case. The PTS was up for several weeks for PC to test. So Zos does test on "random" PCs. Much of it is so few players test anything on the PTS and that server never gets the load we have on live. This testing is done worldwide as both PC/EU and PC/NA have access to the PTS the entire time. If their characters are not there they can use the templates to create a character.
So the big question is how many hours did you spend testing on the PTS this past cycle.
Agenericname wrote: »
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Except even with low population akin to the PTS pop, you get lag and busted mechanics now on live. Its quite clear they put something in that was not tested at all. They could simply play their own game atm on random pcs around the world and see what the problems are during primetime, instead they cling to their closed servers.
I'm not sure that "akin" is fair. I still got crashes on low pop, as I'm sure everyone did, but as far as I am aware there's no reliable way to tell how many are on at any given time (for us, I'm sure ZOS can). A low pop sever could still easily be 2-3 times larger than the PTS.
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Modern automation testing tools (in fact most tools since 2010) can simulate load - so I don’t buy this at all
Long_Distance wrote: »
Long_Distance wrote: »
The reality, fact of the matter, is that it is not possible to find every single bug. The PTS does help find some bugs but even there they cannot get everyone as games like this are fairly complex. Anyone who has played various MMORPGs to any degree knows this. I am pretty sure no one can name a major MMORPG that does not have bugs or one that fixed all the bugs.
Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
To me it seems they only test on internal servers. If they would've tested this " fix " on random pcs world wide they would've known how busted it is.
@TheFM Not the case. The PTS was up for several weeks for PC to test. So Zos does test on "random" PCs. Much of it is so few players test anything on the PTS and that server never gets the load we have on live. This testing is done worldwide as both PC/EU and PC/NA have access to the PTS the entire time. If their characters are not there they can use the templates to create a character.
So the big question is how many hours did you spend testing on the PTS this past cycle.
Many people did and so did I, none of these issues popped up. Even with the same pop OR LESS at the early hours of thed ay there are more issues than in the PTS, so it is clearly NOT an issue of how many were testing, but an issue of how they are testing the fixes to the patch.
Long_Distance wrote: »Long_Distance wrote: »
The reality, fact of the matter, is that it is not possible to find every single bug. The PTS does help find some bugs but even there they cannot get everyone as games like this are fairly complex. Anyone who has played various MMORPGs to any degree knows this. I am pretty sure no one can name a major MMORPG that does not have bugs or one that fixed all the bugs.
I am not sure why you quote me, because you're not refering to my statement, but generally explain that MMORPG will allways have bugs. While I tend to agree with this this update is a whole different thing. The bugs in update 25 reached a level that makes the game unplayable for a big part of its paying customers.
That's not just some more minor bugs that you can work around.
Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
To me it seems they only test on internal servers. If they would've tested this " fix " on random pcs world wide they would've known how busted it is.
@TheFM Not the case. The PTS was up for several weeks for PC to test. So Zos does test on "random" PCs. Much of it is so few players test anything on the PTS and that server never gets the load we have on live. This testing is done worldwide as both PC/EU and PC/NA have access to the PTS the entire time. If their characters are not there they can use the templates to create a character.
So the big question is how many hours did you spend testing on the PTS this past cycle.
Many people did and so did I, none of these issues popped up. Even with the same pop OR LESS at the early hours of thed ay there are more issues than in the PTS, so it is clearly NOT an issue of how many were testing, but an issue of how they are testing the fixes to the patch.
Glad you participated. Since you did spend time on the PTS then you are fully aware that the population was extremely small compared to live. As a result, it should be very obvious that issues that present themselves with load and the greater variability of server stress are not and cannot be tested on the PTS due to the low population. So say what you wish but it should be plainly obvious the low PTS population would mean much can be missed and anything dealing with stress cannot properly be tested.
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Modern automation testing tools (in fact most tools since 2010) can simulate load - so I don’t buy this at all
They have tools that can replicate the randomness of human players in an open world combat situation? Then why don't we have self driving cars?
OK, jokes aside, those automation tools can only test Quests and run fixed scripted events. So, it still takes a population to replicate what a population will do to the code.
And, they are postponing the next incremental patch for the PC as they found some issues.
Long_Distance wrote: »Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
To me it seems they only test on internal servers. If they would've tested this " fix " on random pcs world wide they would've known how busted it is.
@TheFM Not the case. The PTS was up for several weeks for PC to test. So Zos does test on "random" PCs. Much of it is so few players test anything on the PTS and that server never gets the load we have on live. This testing is done worldwide as both PC/EU and PC/NA have access to the PTS the entire time. If their characters are not there they can use the templates to create a character.
So the big question is how many hours did you spend testing on the PTS this past cycle.
Many people did and so did I, none of these issues popped up. Even with the same pop OR LESS at the early hours of thed ay there are more issues than in the PTS, so it is clearly NOT an issue of how many were testing, but an issue of how they are testing the fixes to the patch.
Glad you participated. Since you did spend time on the PTS then you are fully aware that the population was extremely small compared to live. As a result, it should be very obvious that issues that present themselves with load and the greater variability of server stress are not and cannot be tested on the PTS due to the low population. So say what you wish but it should be plainly obvious the low PTS population would mean much can be missed and anything dealing with stress cannot properly be tested.
There's a couple of ways to mitigate the risks when you move from a test to a live environment with a major change:
1) You can do the changes incrementally and not deliver everything in one go.
2) You can encapsulate the changes so that you can have a back up plan to go back to a former state whithout pulling back new content.
3) You can preemptively lease new hardware ressources.
4) You can manage the user's expectations by pro-active communication.
5) You can mitigate user dissatisfaction with prompt reactions to feedback
6) You can have a dev team on alert to fast fix the most obvious and game breaking bugs.
...
Apparently non of this has been done.
Not necessarily. THe problem with PTS testing is that they (or any game) never get enough people to participate with the testing in order to produce the same circumstances as you will get with the full population on Live.
(i.e., many of the problems are caused by the sheer mass of players present on the Live servers; a condition that can't be properly replicated on the PTS because there aren't anywhere near the same number of players logging on to the PTS.)
Long_Distance wrote: »Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?
To me it seems they only test on internal servers. If they would've tested this " fix " on random pcs world wide they would've known how busted it is.
@TheFM Not the case. The PTS was up for several weeks for PC to test. So Zos does test on "random" PCs. Much of it is so few players test anything on the PTS and that server never gets the load we have on live. This testing is done worldwide as both PC/EU and PC/NA have access to the PTS the entire time. If their characters are not there they can use the templates to create a character.
So the big question is how many hours did you spend testing on the PTS this past cycle.
Many people did and so did I, none of these issues popped up. Even with the same pop OR LESS at the early hours of thed ay there are more issues than in the PTS, so it is clearly NOT an issue of how many were testing, but an issue of how they are testing the fixes to the patch.
Glad you participated. Since you did spend time on the PTS then you are fully aware that the population was extremely small compared to live. As a result, it should be very obvious that issues that present themselves with load and the greater variability of server stress are not and cannot be tested on the PTS due to the low population. So say what you wish but it should be plainly obvious the low PTS population would mean much can be missed and anything dealing with stress cannot properly be tested.
There's a couple of ways to mitigate the risks when you move from a test to a live environment with a major change:
1) You can do the changes incrementally and not deliver everything in one go.
2) You can encapsulate the changes so that you can have a back up plan to go back to a former state whithout pulling back new content.
3) You can preemptively lease new hardware ressources.
4) You can manage the user's expectations by pro-active communication.
5) You can mitigate user dissatisfaction with prompt reactions to feedback
6) You can have a dev team on alert to fast fix the most obvious and game breaking bugs.
...
Apparently non of this has been done.
1. Zos does do incremental patches Even their ”performance improvement” plan is being stepped out over several updates.
2. Pretty sure could roll back this last update if that was the smart way to go.
3. You are assuming the issue is with hardware resources.
4. I agree Zos could so a better job with communication.
5. This is the same as 4.
6. If you read Gina’s ”known issue” thread they were in it quickly. That doesn't mean it fixed quickly as the root of the problem and solutions are not immediately obvious.
You are clearly making assumptions about what was done.
Edit: I'm not suggesting Zos is run in an effective or efficient manner. I have cast blame for the issues on ESO where they belong and that's with Matt Firor. I have long believed he is over his head running the company and game and is the source is issues like the poor launch and the game getting to it's current state.
justaquickword wrote: »Why do I get the impression that if the console update comes out this week and everything in the game works like an absolute dream, some of you people would still find something to whine about on this forum?
Then I’m absolutely dreading the console release
Any other console players think that ZoS should suspend the release until
They can nail it?