Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »25% more damage in exchange for 25% higher cost is a fair trade off, the form is more limited on options but you can do the same amount of X in less time. Wanting even higher damage is just advocating for an unbalanced game.
Only problem is that the only self-heal costs mana and scales off health, makes defensive sustain too focused on stats that you don’t want. If I were King Balance I would decree that one of the morphs would cost stam and scale off wepdam/ (Scaled like Breath of Life but with +25% cost and +25%power), and then make the fear cost mana so you have something to spend magicka on.
Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »25% more damage in exchange for 25% higher cost is a fair trade off, the form is more limited on options but you can do the same amount of X in less time. Wanting even higher damage is just advocating for an unbalanced game.
Only problem is that the only self-heal costs mana and scales off health, makes defensive sustain too focused on stats that you don’t want. If I were King Balance I would decree that one of the morphs would cost stam and scale off wepdam/ (Scaled like Breath of Life but with +25% cost and +25%power), and then make the fear cost mana so you have something to spend magicka on.
This is not a nerf other sources of healing post.
I want to compare the werewolf heal to other DD's healing capabilities. I am using Molag Kena, New Moon Acolyte, and Clever Alchemist. This will give us close to top tooltip numbers for our DD heals, while also focusing Effective damage.
Remember werewolf ability are now balanced on a 25% more powerful 25% more costly factor.
Here we are in werewolf form with the sets procced with close to 28k Health.
In pvp we are looking at a little over a 7k burst self heal.
1.1640574564 health restored/ resource spent.
Now let's look at what the human form can pull with its vigor.
12.5k health restored over 4 seconds
3.5736891095 health restored/ resource spent.
2.69 health restored/ resource spent.
7.8k health restored over 5 seconds
The next two I swap over to a magic spected toon. Using the same gear.
4.27 health restored/ resource spent.
Almost 12.5k health
7,481 health restored
1.50 health restored/ resource spent
3.77 if we use it on a target that is below 75% health
Here one of the most expensive heals in the game outpaces Hircine's fortitude in terms of healing effectiveness.
Summary:
In order for werewolf to remain competitive in pvp, the healing properties of Hircine's Heal needs to be adjusted. It is a tank heal, that does not fit into Werewolf's damage dealing archetype that ZOS has stated that werewolf is.
As other DD gain damage they also gain survival through the strength of their heal. In order for werewolf to gain survival they must sacrifice their damage by investing into Health, Magicka, and Magicka regen. This goes against their 25% more powerful abilities for 25% more cost.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
On top of that, classes and weapons have access to many healing passives that can help boost those heals either through major and minor Mending buffs as well as unique %based heals.
Many of the linked abilities can also heal allies as well which also means that someone can use them on you as well, werewolf is completely selfish and adds no group survival. This probably would be ok if they boasted the best single target damage and self heal in the game but as we see that just isn't possible.
Other dd classes also have their primary heal cost their primary resource... werewolf does not.
Agree, but WW rly does not need a "huge" rework. WW mechanics, transformation, feeding is working fine and this is the only part of WW ZOS has done right. It is "balanced".I think zos should simply rework the werewolf as the vampire will be
Yep, I am still kinda shocked and in disbeliefWe finally got it guys
https://youtu.be/FKztVInEYQs
NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
This just makes me sad to see. Don't settle for mediocrity.
NeoXanthus wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
This just makes me sad to see. Don't settle for mediocrity.
I absolutely love my WW PvP builds. I am not settling I have great performing PvP WW and I see this WW buff as a mistake. What I am saying based on past experience when ZoS starts to mess with balance like this in most cases it does not end well. The issue is an overcorrection. Look at past Speed builds, DoT builds, and NB in general. The cycle is predictable. I really hope I am wrong.
NeoXanthus wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
This just makes me sad to see. Don't settle for mediocrity.
I absolutely love my WW PvP builds. I am not settling I have great performing PvP WW and I see this WW buff as a mistake. What I am saying based on past experience when ZoS starts to mess with balance like this in most cases it does not end well. The issue is an overcorrection. Look at past Speed builds, DoT builds, and NB in general. The cycle is predictable. I really hope I am wrong.
Well, WW was fine. I don't think there was a reason to change it at all. And yet ZOS went for heavy handed nerfs last year, making WW useless and not even viable. Idk who do you fight against, but even half a decent player knows how to fight vs WW. I am also pretty sure that you are referring to No-CP PvP, probably in the IC group vs solo new players. It is the only situation WW may be used.NeoXanthus wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
This just makes me sad to see. Don't settle for mediocrity.
I absolutely love my WW PvP builds. I am not settling I have great performing PvP WW and I see this WW buff as a mistake. What I am saying based on past experience when ZoS starts to mess with balance like this in most cases it does not end well. The issue is an overcorrection. Look at past Speed builds, DoT builds, and NB in general. The cycle is predictable. I really hope I am wrong.
NeoXanthus wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
This just makes me sad to see. Don't settle for mediocrity.
I absolutely love my WW PvP builds. I am not settling I have great performing PvP WW and I see this WW buff as a mistake. What I am saying based on past experience when ZoS starts to mess with balance like this in most cases it does not end well. The issue is an overcorrection. Look at past Speed builds, DoT builds, and NB in general. The cycle is predictable. I really hope I am wrong.
I'm not doubting that you can make werewolf work and that you are having fun, heck I do the same and I have probably squeezed just about all the potential that a werewolf build has to offer. Even if I can take out 87% of the games' population in 1v1s as a wolf does not mean that werewolf is over performing. It just means that I am a good player that can perform well with undergeared spec, and most likely I would perform even better with a meta spec.
The problem I see is that werewolf abilities straight up are not balanced according to ZOS's vision 25% more powerful, for 25% more cost, I've done the math. I don't think werewolf is too far off from being where it needs to be.
But if the changes go through with LA's or even if they get nerfed for the 4th time since Wolfhunter, your going to wish that werewolf abilities got brought up to par. Because we will no longer be "carried" by that sustain free damage.
There seams to be a lot of moving parts with this patch, and we have yet to see what our passives, morphs, and ability scaling become, but I for one am glad they are taking time to tweek and possibly build on the potental of the werewolf.
NeoXanthus wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »I have five PvP characters that are all werewolves. All but one I have tuned quite well in 1vX game play because of sets that are complimentary to the WW style of play. I really don’t want ZoS to buff them as it means they will nerf them hard next cycle and from my experience over the years DoT are a classic example of this.
If your base WW is performing at 5 on a scale from 1 to 10. ZoS will buff it to an 8 then when PvP-er engineer the forums because they get killed too much by WW ZoS will nerf them to a 1. Then when people complain ZoS will rebuff them to a 3. But what you don’t realize it is a net loss of 2 from the original 5. Please just leave them be if you know what you are doing, they are formidable in PvP.
This just makes me sad to see. Don't settle for mediocrity.
I absolutely love my WW PvP builds. I am not settling I have great performing PvP WW and I see this WW buff as a mistake. What I am saying based on past experience when ZoS starts to mess with balance like this in most cases it does not end well. The issue is an overcorrection. Look at past Speed builds, DoT builds, and NB in general. The cycle is predictable. I really hope I am wrong.
I'm not doubting that you can make werewolf work and that you are having fun, heck I do the same and I have probably squeezed just about all the potential that a werewolf build has to offer. Even if I can take out 87% of the games' population in 1v1s as a wolf does not mean that werewolf is over performing. It just means that I am a good player that can perform well with undergeared spec, and most likely I would perform even better with a meta spec.
The problem I see is that werewolf abilities straight up are not balanced according to ZOS's vision 25% more powerful, for 25% more cost, I've done the math. I don't think werewolf is too far off from being where it needs to be.
But if the changes go through with LA's or even if they get nerfed for the 4th time since Wolfhunter, your going to wish that werewolf abilities got brought up to par. Because we will no longer be "carried" by that sustain free damage.
There seams to be a lot of moving parts with this patch, and we have yet to see what our passives, morphs, and ability scaling become, but I for one am glad they are taking time to tweek and possibly build on the potental of the werewolf.