I'm not sure where to post this, but in your opinion, is sexism really rampant in eso?

Neoealth · March 2020

Anyway this is the sort of thread that normally gets me banned. So I'l leave it there.

Adios.

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

Raisin wrote: »

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Women I'm not sure how to deal with it, as I only know what guys go through. You might be right, it might not even matter. I just know that we guys when hanging out in a group we tend to focus heavily on having fun and enjoy ourselves to the point where if someone ruins that fun. They tend to get targeted.

The women I hang out with tends to talk behind each other backs. It feels very fake at times..but like i said i don't know if that is the normal.

I do know that being tough and not letting things bother you will get your more guy friends, also helps if you are not so gloomy and just have fun lol. We men are pretty simple, we say and do things that is fun, and if someone gets moody. We tend to not like person.

Nyata · March 2020

Karmen wrote: »

You know, when you're acting like a man (according to their misogynist ideology), leading groups and killing them in pvp, it may hurts their ego. And the problem I encountered came from that.

see, people like that would try to find the one thing they feel save to pick on. basically they are trying to leash out from a position of weakness, and common sense simply goes overboard then. or maybe they don't have a lot of it to start with. anyway, you might as well get targeted for being gay, black, asian, 60+, or whatever they know about you that makes you different from them. Sadly, it is the price you pay for being good at something

I am absolutely not condoning such behavior, and it is the reason why I am probably one of the least competitive people you will ever meat, I avoid such conflicts.

Best advice I can give is: Enjoy the win. cause when people like that attack you for being a woman, they know you are better at what you do and unwilling to admit it. you should be proud and walk away with your head held high.

TheFM · March 2020

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Women I'm not sure how to deal with it, as I only know what guys go through. You might be right, it might not even matter. I just know that we guys when hanging out in a group we tend to focus heavily on having fun and enjoy ourselves to the point where if someone ruins that fun. They tend to get targeted.

The women I hang out with tends to talk behind each other backs. It feels very fake at times..but like i said i don't know if that is the normal.

I do know that being tough and not letting things bother you will get your more guy friends, also helps if you are not so gloomy and just have fun lol. We men are pretty simple, we say and do things that is fun, and if someone gets moody. We tend to not like person.

🤮

Raisin · March 2020

Neoealth wrote: »

To a hardcore feminist, everything is sexist and men are enemy number one.

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

In the next life, grow up as a boy and find out for yourself. You're expected to be tough, don't show emotion. Expected to be the protector and to do the harder work because we have greater upper body strength than females on average.

Look up Sexual dimorphism in mammals. It's why I tend to frown at the hard core feminists who seek to highlight the differences in the sexes and then complain about it. It's the very nature of the 2 sexes, we have different traits, not just physically but emotionally as well.

Just as a disclaimer, I'm all for equal rights between men and women. When it comes to personal freedoms. I just don't accept the hardcore feminists position that seek to attack men constantly for things we are naturally inclined to do.
They are the sort of person who is always trying to censor what people say. The far left are the actual fascists who hate free speech. Unless you're shouting out what they believe in, then they don't mind at all.

I think I'll stick to asking about other people's experiences, rather than hoping reincarnation helps me out. :P

That said, the physical strength, emotional stuff, etc. is on average. The human population is large enough for the exceptions of these things to still be strongly represented. And do keep in mind that just like the other fella showcased in his response to me, a lot of this is conditioning. There's a difference between things men are inclined to do, and things we generally raise men to be inclined to do in a nurture vs nature type situation. But I think we're starting to border on a discussion that ZOS will nuke, so probably not the right place and time for that discussion.

Neoealth · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

To a hardcore feminist, everything is sexist and men are enemy number one.

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

In the next life, grow up as a boy and find out for yourself. You're expected to be tough, don't show emotion. Expected to be the protector and to do the harder work because we have greater upper body strength than females on average.

Look up Sexual dimorphism in mammals. It's why I tend to frown at the hard core feminists who seek to highlight the differences in the sexes and then complain about it. It's the very nature of the 2 sexes, we have different traits, not just physically but emotionally as well.

Just as a disclaimer, I'm all for equal rights between men and women. When it comes to personal freedoms. I just don't accept the hardcore feminists position that seek to attack men constantly for things we are naturally inclined to do.
They are the sort of person who is always trying to censor what people say. The far left are the actual fascists who hate free speech. Unless you're shouting out what they believe in, then they don't mind at all.

That's not feminism, and I'd suggest a dictionary.

You missed my point. I'm talking about how the feminist movement has been infiltrated by those who seek to use it as a vehicle for social unrest by attacking natural differences and making them into an issue. I'm not sure if you're aware, but feminism has changed greatly over the decades from a movement that is advocating women's rights, to be equal to men. To being in some cases, radicalized by the far left to push political agendas.

Lol, you are so off the mark it's funny. I however not debating real world politics here as it's against forum rules.

How convenient for you. I'd love to debate you somewhere else. But never mind.

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

Karmen wrote: »

Nyata wrote: »

personally, i don't think in 2 decades of gaming I have ever been targeted for being a woman. actually, it bugs me more that when people realize I am a woman, they try to help me, in the good way, with loot farms and so on. Thing is, I am a) a pretty casual flower sniffer, so I have no need and no interest in getting the latest raid gear, and b) if i actually want something, I wanna get it figured out and done *myself* way too often. not healthy either, I know.

I know, feminists all over the world will gasp, but I think sometimes women are too touchy. I enjoy inter-gender banter and squabbles, as long as it is good natured and with lots of winks. I mean, what's the point in having different genders if you cannot have fun with it? Keep in mind one thing though... a lot of us are playing this sort of games not just to kill time, but to feel good about something. And if s/he had a crappy day at work, got home to realize spouse is unappreciative, the kids made a mess again, and when you finally get some time to do the one thing you been looking forward to all day, the slightest thing can put you over the top. So.. honestly, i think the proper response would not be to post on the forum about it, but to say to that person 'sorry if I caught you on the wrong foot, I really didn't mean to insult anyone. hope your day gets better.'

You know, when you're acting like a man (according to their misogynist ideology), leading groups and killing them in pvp, it may hurts their ego. And the problem I encountered came from that.

I mean sure, Guys can be very competitive and if a female does it. Can trigger some guys. Some things don't change. It still hurts some guys pride to lose to a woman. Does that mean the person should act out? Nah, but as a man I can still understand it. If I was with him, i would be making fun of him for it. Even if I would have lost also LOL.

Raisin · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Hoo boy, the sexism deniers are out in force again.

Hoo boy, people disagreeing with me even after I spammed the frontpage. Better make sure people know I can't accept that other people have different experiences from me!

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

Sure, this is a great topic since I just got done talking with my nephew about this, and why he keeps getting teased at school.

Guys like to haze each other. All good fun, but if you become offended, or just let things bother you easily. You are not really fun to hang around, and that makes you a easy target. It also makes it harder for you to fit in with many guys. (I'm not going to say all things are like this, but from my work, and few areas I been in. This has always been the case.)

Just like women and how they act carry themselves, guys have to do the same thing, and men who are overly moody, and lets things get to them. Tend to be snuffed out like a pecking order. He gets teased so much, because he gets so upset about it and acts out. That makes it fun for them.

Women have whole other problems to deal with that as a guy I would find annoying as F. With that being said, i've dated some girls who get upset I don't act the same way I do around her as I do with guys. and when I do start acting same way. She gets her feelings hurt. It is annoying balance to deal with.

Guys tend to be mean to each other and we roll with the punches. Saying something cruel and having your bros laugh is the normal. Women, on the other hand. Ones I have dated, always so darn nice with each other. After one leaves, they talk mad *** behind her back. I'm just like darn thats worse. lol

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Yeah, replying to a thread to which ihave personal experience with is spamming, lol. You are also replying to someone who threw women out of groups because the men in the group couldn't control themselves.

It's not about you responding, it's about you deciding that other people's experiences aren't valid. No one else seems to struggle with the concept of "this is my experience but I understand others have different ones and they're still real".

And I don't know any of these people, so if you have background knowledge of them from ingame, that ball is in your park.

TheFM · March 2020

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Hoo boy, the sexism deniers are out in force again.

Hoo boy, people disagreeing with me even after I spammed the frontpage. Better make sure people know I can't accept that other people have different experiences from me!

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

Sure, this is a great topic since I just got done talking with my nephew about this, and why he keeps getting teased at school.

Guys like to haze each other. All good fun, but if you become offended, or just let things bother you easily. You are not really fun to hang around, and that makes you a easy target. It also makes it harder for you to fit in with many guys. (I'm not going to say all things are like this, but from my work, and few areas I been in. This has always been the case.)

Just like women and how they act carry themselves, guys have to do the same thing, and men who are overly moody, and lets things get to them. Tend to be snuffed out like a pecking order. He gets teased so much, because he gets so upset about it and acts out. That makes it fun for them.

Women have whole other problems to deal with that as a guy I would find annoying as F. With that being said, i've dated some girls who get upset I don't act the same way I do around her as I do with guys. and when I do start acting same way. She gets her feelings hurt. It is annoying balance to deal with.

Guys tend to be mean to each other and we roll with the punches. Saying something cruel and having your bros laugh is the normal. Women, on the other hand. Ones I have dated, always so darn nice with each other. After one leaves, they talk mad *** behind her back. I'm just like darn thats worse. lol

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Yeah, replying to a thread to which ihave personal experience with is spamming, lol. You are also replying to someone who threw women out of groups because the men in the group couldn't control themselves.

It's not about you responding, it's about you deciding that other people's experiences aren't valid. No one else seems to struggle with the concept of "this is my experience but I understand others have different ones and they're still real".

And I don't know any of these people, so if you have background knowledge of them from ingame, that ball is in your park.

I'm not invalidating anyone's experience, but I will challenge people at every turn that say sexism isn't a big deal.

Raisin · March 2020

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Women I'm not sure how to deal with it, as I only know what guys go through. You might be right, it might not even matter. I just know that we guys when hanging out in a group we tend to focus heavily on having fun and enjoy ourselves to the point where if someone ruins that fun. They tend to get targeted.

The women I hang out with tends to talk behind each other backs. It feels very fake at times..but like i said i don't know if that is the normal.

I do know that being tough and not letting things bother you will get your more guy friends, also helps if you are not so gloomy and just have fun lol. We men are pretty simple, we say and do things that is fun, and if someone gets moody. We tend to not like person.

I definitely get what you're saying. I've spent a good bit of time working with children and contrary to what some people believe, even the most progressive folks completely understand that there will be differences. But you also see just how much conditioning is pushed onto children based on societal standards, and you end up stuck in a cycle. Specifically the stuff you were talking about is still very enforced and it's hard to escape that as a guy. In the end, individual experiences and the general experienced of groups of people interact in very complicated ways and there's a lot of overlap based on different conditions. Generalisations are a useful tool when used correctly and not in ignorance.

TBH the women being fake stuff I'm more hesitant to talk about... Not because I haven't seen it and haven't noticed many who play into the stereotype, but because I've seen just as many women doing the whole 'other girls are vapid *** and I'm special' thing and it is just as tiring. Feels like there's no winning sometimes.

Neoealth · March 2020

Raisin wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

To a hardcore feminist, everything is sexist and men are enemy number one.

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

In the next life, grow up as a boy and find out for yourself. You're expected to be tough, don't show emotion. Expected to be the protector and to do the harder work because we have greater upper body strength than females on average.

Look up Sexual dimorphism in mammals. It's why I tend to frown at the hard core feminists who seek to highlight the differences in the sexes and then complain about it. It's the very nature of the 2 sexes, we have different traits, not just physically but emotionally as well.

Just as a disclaimer, I'm all for equal rights between men and women. When it comes to personal freedoms. I just don't accept the hardcore feminists position that seek to attack men constantly for things we are naturally inclined to do.
They are the sort of person who is always trying to censor what people say. The far left are the actual fascists who hate free speech. Unless you're shouting out what they believe in, then they don't mind at all.

I think I'll stick to asking about other people's experiences, rather than hoping reincarnation helps me out. :P

That said, the physical strength, emotional stuff, etc. is on average. The human population is large enough for the exceptions of these things to still be strongly represented. And do keep in mind that just like the other fella showcased in his response to me, a lot of this is conditioning. There's a difference between things men are inclined to do, and things we generally raise men to be inclined to do in a nurture vs nature type situation. But I think we're starting to border on a discussion that ZOS will nuke, so probably not the right place and time for that discussion.

Yeah I pulled out of getting further into this. I can see my comments getting removed and possibly banned. Ha... :-)

Have a good day!

Raisin · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Hoo boy, the sexism deniers are out in force again.

Hoo boy, people disagreeing with me even after I spammed the frontpage. Better make sure people know I can't accept that other people have different experiences from me!

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

Sure, this is a great topic since I just got done talking with my nephew about this, and why he keeps getting teased at school.

Guys like to haze each other. All good fun, but if you become offended, or just let things bother you easily. You are not really fun to hang around, and that makes you a easy target. It also makes it harder for you to fit in with many guys. (I'm not going to say all things are like this, but from my work, and few areas I been in. This has always been the case.)

Just like women and how they act carry themselves, guys have to do the same thing, and men who are overly moody, and lets things get to them. Tend to be snuffed out like a pecking order. He gets teased so much, because he gets so upset about it and acts out. That makes it fun for them.

Women have whole other problems to deal with that as a guy I would find annoying as F. With that being said, i've dated some girls who get upset I don't act the same way I do around her as I do with guys. and when I do start acting same way. She gets her feelings hurt. It is annoying balance to deal with.

Guys tend to be mean to each other and we roll with the punches. Saying something cruel and having your bros laugh is the normal. Women, on the other hand. Ones I have dated, always so darn nice with each other. After one leaves, they talk mad *** behind her back. I'm just like darn thats worse. lol

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Yeah, replying to a thread to which ihave personal experience with is spamming, lol. You are also replying to someone who threw women out of groups because the men in the group couldn't control themselves.

It's not about you responding, it's about you deciding that other people's experiences aren't valid. No one else seems to struggle with the concept of "this is my experience but I understand others have different ones and they're still real".

And I don't know any of these people, so if you have background knowledge of them from ingame, that ball is in your park.

I'm not invalidating anyone's experience, but I will challenge people at every turn that say sexism isn't a big deal.

You literally read actual accounts of other people's experiences and perspectives and made a passive aggressive, dismissive comment about it. You clearly are too set in your way of your experience being the only realistic one to acknowledge that it's not an all-encompassing truth. If this many people can tell you that they themselves have not experienced sexism in this game, then that's how it is. That's just an assessment of the situation, and it's not an attack on how much of a big deal you find sexism to be.

@Neoealth Probably wasn't meant to be -- it's ESO forums after all. Good day to you as well.

TheFM · March 2020

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Hoo boy, the sexism deniers are out in force again.

Hoo boy, people disagreeing with me even after I spammed the frontpage. Better make sure people know I can't accept that other people have different experiences from me!

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

Sure, this is a great topic since I just got done talking with my nephew about this, and why he keeps getting teased at school.

Guys like to haze each other. All good fun, but if you become offended, or just let things bother you easily. You are not really fun to hang around, and that makes you a easy target. It also makes it harder for you to fit in with many guys. (I'm not going to say all things are like this, but from my work, and few areas I been in. This has always been the case.)

Just like women and how they act carry themselves, guys have to do the same thing, and men who are overly moody, and lets things get to them. Tend to be snuffed out like a pecking order. He gets teased so much, because he gets so upset about it and acts out. That makes it fun for them.

Women have whole other problems to deal with that as a guy I would find annoying as F. With that being said, i've dated some girls who get upset I don't act the same way I do around her as I do with guys. and when I do start acting same way. She gets her feelings hurt. It is annoying balance to deal with.

Guys tend to be mean to each other and we roll with the punches. Saying something cruel and having your bros laugh is the normal. Women, on the other hand. Ones I have dated, always so darn nice with each other. After one leaves, they talk mad *** behind her back. I'm just like darn thats worse. lol

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Yeah, replying to a thread to which ihave personal experience with is spamming, lol. You are also replying to someone who threw women out of groups because the men in the group couldn't control themselves.

It's not about you responding, it's about you deciding that other people's experiences aren't valid. No one else seems to struggle with the concept of "this is my experience but I understand others have different ones and they're still real".

And I don't know any of these people, so if you have background knowledge of them from ingame, that ball is in your park.

I'm not invalidating anyone's experience, but I will challenge people at every turn that say sexism isn't a big deal.

You literally read actual accounts of other people's experiences and perspectives and made a passive aggressive, dismissive comment about it. You clearly are too set in your way of your experience being the only realistic one to acknowledge that it's not an all-encompassing truth. If this many people can tell you that they themselves have not experienced sexism in this game, then that's how it is. That's just an assessment of the situation, and it's not an attack on how much of a big deal you find sexism to be.

There is a difference in saying " I have not personally experienced it " and saying " I don't see it as a big deal and women are too sensitive ". One is an opinion, the other is insulting. Learn the difference, until then I won't be replying to you anymore, especially since you are agreeing with someone who sees it appropriate to remove women from groups for simply existing. ✌️

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

Raisin wrote: »

I definitely get what you're saying. I've spent a good bit of time working with children and contrary to what some people believe, even the most progressive folks completely understand that there will be differences. But you also see just how much conditioning is pushed onto children based on societal standards, and you end up stuck in a cycle. Specifically the stuff you were talking about is still very enforced and it's hard to escape that as a guy. In the end, individual experiences and the general experienced of groups of people interact in very complicated ways and there's a lot of overlap based on different conditions. Generalisations are a useful tool when used correctly and not in ignorance.

That is one of my problems when it comes to SJW. Changes got to happen natural. Cycles can't be broken by aggressive stances. Understanding why it happens, and understand that life is just not fair at times, and if you want change. Forcing your mindset on others is the fast way to make people more defensive.

That is just my take anyway. I could be wrong.

Deter1UK · March 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

The only type of clown who does this also thinks teabagging is clever.

see, here's the thing.

Where I'm from 'Teabagging' is a term for something consenting adults do in private.

this makes much of the thread somewhat amusing / eyebrow raising.

for the sake of this elderly gents sanity will someone kindly explain what you actually mean?

Please?

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

There is a difference in saying " I have not personally experienced it " and saying " I don't see it as a big deal and women are too sensitive ". One is an opinion, the other is insulting. Learn the difference, until then I won't be replying to you anymore, especially since you are agreeing with someone who sees it appropriate to remove women from groups for simply existing. ✌️

Like this person right here, They are pretty much talking about me. I gave a story about how guys treated each other like trash in my guild because a female was with us. So we had to stop inviting females because of how dumb guys can be.

It was an example just how unfair things can be, but at the same time a guild or community has the freedom to make that choice. The group as a whole can accept what is the right and wrong answer and some times men act stupid and it is not the womens fault.

Karmen · March 2020

Nyata wrote: »

Karmen wrote: »

You know, when you're acting like a man (according to their misogynist ideology), leading groups and killing them in pvp, it may hurts their ego. And the problem I encountered came from that.

see, people like that would try to find the one thing they feel save to pick on. basically they are trying to leash out from a position of weakness, and common sense simply goes overboard then. or maybe they don't have a lot of it to start with. anyway, you might as well get targeted for being gay, black, asian, 60+, or whatever they know about you that makes you different from them. Sadly, it is the price you pay for being good at something I am absolutely not condoning such behavior, and it is the reason why I am probably one of the least competitive people you will ever meat, I avoid such conflicts.

Best advice I can give is: Enjoy the win. cause when people like that attack you for being a woman, they know you are better at what you do and unwilling to admit it. you should be proud and walk away with your head held high.

ty

This is exactly what i'm doing !!!

Raisin · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Hoo boy, the sexism deniers are out in force again.

Hoo boy, people disagreeing with me even after I spammed the frontpage. Better make sure people know I can't accept that other people have different experiences from me!

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

I think a lot (not all) of men have a blind spot towards sexism. What to them would be an innocent remark. Can be for a woman, a very demeaning one.

I also think certain woman (not all) are especially sensitive about such remarks and will explode in a word storm of accusations that help nobody.

Now in some cases. the word storm can be justified. For example, there are remarks like "woman go back to the kitchen." that are said with intent to hurt. Such individuals deserve in my opinion all the word storm they get.

However, there are also cases where the word storm is unwarranted and a calm explanation of why a certain remark is problematic will get better results.

In my opinion it is always better to try and educate than to drag down. Teaching why certain remarks are problematic, often makes the one learning more aware of what they are doing wrong and how to improve.
Less fight, more honest dialogue.
Of Course there is always the clown who refuses to learn. In those cases either ignore and take their fun away, or vent your frustration. but don't expect them to change.

Clowns won't change until they realise they aren't as funny as they think they are.

I mean most of the stuff guys go through, would toughen them up. I don't really care about genders myself. I treat everyone the same and don't walk on egg shells.

I am very interested to find out what kind of stuff all guys apparently go through that toughens them up. Please share?

Sure, this is a great topic since I just got done talking with my nephew about this, and why he keeps getting teased at school.

Guys like to haze each other. All good fun, but if you become offended, or just let things bother you easily. You are not really fun to hang around, and that makes you a easy target. It also makes it harder for you to fit in with many guys. (I'm not going to say all things are like this, but from my work, and few areas I been in. This has always been the case.)

Just like women and how they act carry themselves, guys have to do the same thing, and men who are overly moody, and lets things get to them. Tend to be snuffed out like a pecking order. He gets teased so much, because he gets so upset about it and acts out. That makes it fun for them.

Women have whole other problems to deal with that as a guy I would find annoying as F. With that being said, i've dated some girls who get upset I don't act the same way I do around her as I do with guys. and when I do start acting same way. She gets her feelings hurt. It is annoying balance to deal with.

Guys tend to be mean to each other and we roll with the punches. Saying something cruel and having your bros laugh is the normal. Women, on the other hand. Ones I have dated, always so darn nice with each other. After one leaves, they talk mad *** behind her back. I'm just like darn thats worse. lol

Interesting. I've shared the same experience as your nephew most of my life. I'm not sure it can be as easily attributed as different genders as you put it, but obviously the societal standards regarding men definitely fit into it.

Yeah, replying to a thread to which ihave personal experience with is spamming, lol. You are also replying to someone who threw women out of groups because the men in the group couldn't control themselves.

It's not about you responding, it's about you deciding that other people's experiences aren't valid. No one else seems to struggle with the concept of "this is my experience but I understand others have different ones and they're still real".

And I don't know any of these people, so if you have background knowledge of them from ingame, that ball is in your park.

I'm not invalidating anyone's experience, but I will challenge people at every turn that say sexism isn't a big deal.

You literally read actual accounts of other people's experiences and perspectives and made a passive aggressive, dismissive comment about it. You clearly are too set in your way of your experience being the only realistic one to acknowledge that it's not an all-encompassing truth. If this many people can tell you that they themselves have not experienced sexism in this game, then that's how it is. That's just an assessment of the situation, and it's not an attack on how much of a big deal you find sexism to be.

There is a difference in saying " I have not personally experienced it " and saying " I don't see it as a big deal and women are too sensitive ". One is an opinion, the other is insulting. Learn the difference, until then I won't be replying to you anymore, especially since you are agreeing with someone who sees it appropriate to remove women from groups for simply existing. ✌️

That's still an opinion if that is the experience they've had. You may mean a different comment, but one comment that said that also specifically stated SOME and also talked about SOME men. I agree that there's a trend in women being unreasonable about the topic. That's because it's an unfortunate experience I've had to make. It's anecdotal. It's certainly made me cynical about the whole thing, but when you constantly see more of the bad stuff on the topic coming from women, rather than men doing the stuff they are accused of doing... those just become the facts. We all only have our own limited sample size to analyze from. I think it's a good move to generally assume that there is a reason people have the views they have, and that they were led there by the things they've seen.
And you haven't even told me which person supposedly kicks women from groups, so how the hell am I supposed to avoid this person?! lol

LadyNalcarya · March 2020

PC/EU.
I've had a few negative experiences with sexist and xenophobic players, and there's an occasional idiot in zone chat, but overall I wouldn't say there's a huge problem. Most guilds I've been a part of were pretty chill and there's a lot of female players.

Raisin · March 2020

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

I definitely get what you're saying. I've spent a good bit of time working with children and contrary to what some people believe, even the most progressive folks completely understand that there will be differences. But you also see just how much conditioning is pushed onto children based on societal standards, and you end up stuck in a cycle. Specifically the stuff you were talking about is still very enforced and it's hard to escape that as a guy. In the end, individual experiences and the general experienced of groups of people interact in very complicated ways and there's a lot of overlap based on different conditions. Generalisations are a useful tool when used correctly and not in ignorance.

That is one of my problems when it comes to SJW. Changes got to happen natural. Cycles can't be broken by aggressive stances. Understanding why it happens, and understand that life is just not fair at times, and if you want change. Forcing your mindset on others is the fast way to make people more defensive.

That is just my take anyway. I could be wrong.

This isn't entirely true. You can still make choices, and especially when it comes to raising children, there's a lot you can to to break cycles. The big issue is usually doing this in denial, and in unrealistic ways. You can't just pretend the world away. The best you can do is share your views, be honest, encourage change, and make sure your own bvehavior doesn't enforce stereotypes you don't want to mark someone's mind with. But that is very much still active change!

Deter1UK wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

The only type of clown who does this also thinks teabagging is clever.

see, here's the thing.

Where I'm from 'Teabagging' is a term for something consenting adults do in private.

this makes much of the thread somewhat amusing / eyebrow raising.

for the sake of this elderly gents sanity will someone kindly explain what you actually mean?

Please?

It's probably the same thing, but without consent and in public. It's considered a rude/mocking gesture to continuously go up-and-down on someone else's dead character.

LuxLunae · March 2020

wolfbone wrote: »

so tonight, rather a rather hostile player has verbally insulted me because I'm apparently sexist for making a reference to the '*sigh* not another distraction' some npcs will say.
apparently I'm all that's wrong with eso and I'm a vile plague that doesnt respect women. so, it has gotten me thinking, is sexism in eso as rampant as this person has claimed?

thanks for anyone's input on this matter

Well I had people call me the N word in eso...However, the way the person spoke, they were obviously younger than 18 yrs old... Maybe younger than 16...Always trying to be edgy...

Then there was another person who was warped by the internet going to certain sites and spouting supremacies. He was below the age of 24 around college age. Wondering why his life went the way it did after high school.

Since I don't play everyday, I encounter it maybe once every 3-6 months....

I can usually tell a persons age by how they reply. I've been on the internet for 20+ years, this is an obvious skill most should have picked up...

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

Stupid phone problems.

OrphanHelgen · March 2020

I couldn't care less if you have a *** or a ***. Just don't move the boss out of my elf bane destro ult!!

OrphanHelgen · March 2020

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I couldn't care less if you have a *** or a ***. Just don't move the boss out of my elf bane destro ult!!

Reallly, those words cencored?

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

Raisin wrote: »

[

This isn't entirely true. You can still make choices, and especially when it comes to raising children, there's a lot you can to to break cycles. The big issue is usually doing this in denial, and in unrealistic ways. You can't just pretend the world away. The best you can do is share your views, be honest, encourage change, and make sure your own bvehavior doesn't enforce stereotypes you don't want to mark someone's mind with. But that is very much still active change!

My friend use to say this, If someone is a racist, I rather them show it. So I know to not hang around them. When people are super aggressive or being a hive mind, force to act in a certain way. They become fake, and it is hard to see people true colors. When I say aggressive, I mean attacking people that don't have your same views, and like to label them. You can still push your agenda and fight for what you want. I've not met a person who was force to have his mind changed, and stuck with said mind change. If that makes sense.

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Quoting someone specifically to bypass the block function is also against the forum rules. Gg.

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

edit

I'm not sure what this person is talking about. How do i even know said person block me? They are being pretty unreasonable, and that is pretty much why sjw and many people don't come to an understand. They have been passive aggressive, and don't like dealing with people that don't agree with them. Also, gg on what?

Aurrynthea_Drake · March 2020

Zone chat is usually a dumpster fire of offensive hateful comments. I just turn it off and stick to guild chat or discord. 🤷🏻‍♀️

rager82b14_ESO · March 2020

Aurrynthea_Drake wrote: »

Zone chat is usually a dumpster fire of offensive hateful comments. I just turn it off and stick to guild chat or discord. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Ya, but I kinda like it myself, but I can understand why some people don't. I enjoy people just being stupid and having fun.

Raisin · March 2020

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

[

This isn't entirely true. You can still make choices, and especially when it comes to raising children, there's a lot you can to to break cycles. The big issue is usually doing this in denial, and in unrealistic ways. You can't just pretend the world away. The best you can do is share your views, be honest, encourage change, and make sure your own bvehavior doesn't enforce stereotypes you don't want to mark someone's mind with. But that is very much still active change!

My friend use to say this, If someone is a racist, I rather them show it. So I know to not hang around them. When people are super aggressive or being a hive mind, force to act in a certain way. They become fake, and it is hard to see people true colors. When I say aggressive, I mean attacking people that don't have your same views, and like to label them. You can still push your agenda and fight for what you want. I've not met a person who was force to have his mind changed, and stuck with said mind change. If that makes sense.

Yeah, I gotchu.

Zer0_CooL · March 2020

I think that Female chars should get less gold drops and lower drop rates on rare items to increase immersion. Same goes for dunmer.