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Nerf Bolt Escape
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cjtignub17_ESO✭✭✭Honestly you don't know how to play the game. These "nerf skill x" threads almost always come from inexperienced players who are still learning.
If you think this skill needs to be nerfed, you have zero understanding of the meta-balance behind this game. There are plenty of counters to this skill.
Touching Bolt Escape in any way would ruin it.
It already received a major nerf when they added the reduced magicka regen after use.
Quoted for truth0 -
Oblongship✭✭✭✭cjtignub17_ESO wrote: »Honestly you don't know how to play the game. These "nerf skill x" threads almost always come from inexperienced players who are still learning.
If you think this skill needs to be nerfed, you have zero understanding of the meta-balance behind this game. There are plenty of counters to this skill.
Touching Bolt Escape in any way would ruin it.
It already received a major nerf when they added the reduced magicka regen after use.
Quoted for truth
Not even a little true...
If you sit there and say it is fine the way it is, you not only don't know wtf you are talking about when it comes to balance, but chances are you are just a sorc that doesn't want their OP ability nerfed.
The fact that a sorc can cast it so many times ON TOP of doing other things (See video) is what makes it OP...
You can't run from a sorc and if they decide to run, you can not catch them. If you try to stun them, they can use their breaker and then bolt away.
I am not saying change the range, cast time or anything like that but make it cost more, or hell make it cost stam...I don't care but at least make it to where it is 2 - 3 times max...that would give the sorc a chance to get away without being ridiculous.
Something will give....and ZoS will nerf it, there is no way it will stay the way it is.0 -
Zordrage✭✭✭✭✭jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »Bolt Scape is a no sense at this moment, this afternoon I saw a soccerer using more than 15 times this skill to scape, making impossible kill him.
No sh*t! It's called Bolt ESCAPE. If it was nerfed so it no longer allows you to escape, it becomes one of those useless abilities nobody uses. People give up ability slots for an ability that costs Magicka that is designed not to kill an enemy, but to get away, and people are crying like babies because "their kill" got away.
the prob is that their is NO COUNTER to it seriously no matter what ability you say its good againts it the sorcerer will just out spam that ability
last time 6 of us was chasing a guy spamming bolt escape we had chains stuns ranged CC but it was imposible we was able to pull him like twice after like 2 hits he was again miles away after 10 min chasing our raid arrived behinde him and he Bolt escape spammed right next to them and died...............
that ability is ***.........
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Zaldoras✭✭✭the prob is that their is NO COUNTER to it seriously no matter what ability you say its good againts it the sorcerer will just out spam that ability
What? Why do you need a counter to someone running away? Is the fact you're still alive not a counter to an escape in and of itself? The kill doesn't belong to you just because you see them, it doesn't work that way. You don't get an automatic kill against a Sorcerer who opts to use Bolt ESCAPE, it simply doesn't work like that, otherwise they wouldn't a) use the ability b) have the ability in their arsenal in the first place.
Sorcerers can blink in to combat, deal some damage, and blink out - if they choose too. Sorcerers can deal no damage, and blink out of view when near enemies - if they choose too. Nightblades can teleport in and out of combat - if they choose too. Dragonknights can run in to combat, activate lots of tank abilities such as spell reflects, block, and heal themselves - if they choose too. Templars can drop Novas on entire closely packed zergs and decimate them with a smaller group - if they choose too. Wouldn't it all be boring if we got rid of each class' unique moves? No more blinking Sorcs, no more stealthy NBs, no more healing Templars, no more tanking DKs. Would be boring after all the people cry about things being greener on the other side of the fence.Edited by Zaldoras on April 18, 2014 6:13AM0 -
Hodorius✭✭✭Dont compare it with NBs.
We can teleport into combat but not out of it.
The invisibility is castable 5-6 times until we run oom.
We have good chances to get away but they are not that good like blink.
The "escape situation" will occupy the enemy for max 30 seconds... not few minutes.Edited by Hodorius on April 18, 2014 6:22AM0 -
beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭I see what you are saying. So the fact that Bolt Escape has "Escape" in its name means they should never die if they decide to run away. They should be able to grab a scroll, bolt through a raid group of 20, and escape out the other side to deliver the scroll. We should never be able to catch them because they decided to slot one escape ability. See where I am going with this? Right now, a skilled Sorcerer gets to decide if he / she dies or not. Thats not how it works. If I'm on my DK and getting attacked by 3 people, I don't get to magically decide "I want to run away now" and vanish to the other side of the map.
Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 6:49AM0 -
Raice✭✭✭dahl.lucas_ESO wrote: »That's what makes me give up on an mmo after a few months. The crazy nurfing/catering that most mmo's succumb to.
I had a Scrapper Scoundrel in SWTOR. Three weeks after the game went live, they nerfed the entire reason to even be a Scrapper/Operative. Why? Because people were dying in 6 seconds of stun lock (or something.) Not because the class or any ability was broken - but because Expertise, Combat Stims, and other Consumables stacked and broke the Critical Strike damage.
I left the game the following week after writing a lengthy thread going into detail about why there was nothing wrong with the class, and how precisely nerfing it would break the game. And it went down exactly how I said it would: Healers would be unstoppable. And that's how it was. One Healer could out-heal an entire team's worth of focus fire on a single target.
To be fair, I don't know all the ins and outs of ESO's combat system as well as I did SWTOR's at the time. So I can't really break anything down. Moreover, I don't have the skill unlocked at the moment to really see for myself if it is ridiculous. All I can say is class nerfs are always a bad idea as an initial response to an issue, especially if that issue only occurs in PvP. The problem is there is simply too much subjective feedback about any issue pertaining to PvP.
From an outsider's view, frankly, I don't really understand what the problem is. If the Sorc is running away... they aren't attacking or doing anything of importance. At the end of the day... this all just sounds like some whining from people who are mad about not being able to roflstomp a class they probably should be able to roflstomp if it weren't for this one ability.
So until someone actually brings up an intelligent reason with some actual real numbers about why this is such a big problem, and do so without blowing everything out of proportion... my vote is to just leave things alone and let the players deal with it.0 -
Zaldoras✭✭✭beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »I see what you are saying. So the fact that Bolt Escape has "Escape" in its name means they should never die if they decide to run away. They should be able to grab a scroll, bolt through a raid group of 20, and escape out the other side to deliver the scroll. We should never be able to catch them because they decided to slot one escape ability. See where I am going with this? Right now, a skilled Sorcerer gets to decide if he / she dies or not. Thats not how it works. If I'm on my DK and getting attacked by 3 people, I don't get to magically decide "I want to run away now" and vanish to the other side of the map.
That's because you'd be a DK, and not a Sorc. Sorcs have the ability to decide whether to run away or not, it's called Bolt Escape, and it's staying. I'm sorry, but yes, that's how it works. Also, Sorcs carrying the Scroll should drop it when using Bolt Escape, just like crouching to hide, or attempting to mount.
Edited by Zaldoras on April 18, 2014 7:59AM0 -
beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »I see what you are saying. So the fact that Bolt Escape has "Escape" in its name means they should never die if they decide to run away. They should be able to grab a scroll, bolt through a raid group of 20, and escape out the other side to deliver the scroll. We should never be able to catch them because they decided to slot one escape ability. See where I am going with this? Right now, a skilled Sorcerer gets to decide if he / she dies or not. Thats not how it works. If I'm on my DK and getting attacked by 3 people, I don't get to magically decide "I want to run away now" and vanish to the other side of the map.
That's because you'd be a DK, and not a Sorc. Sorcs have the ability to decide whether to run away or not, it's called Bolt Escape, and it's staying. I'm sorry, but yes, that's how it works. Also, Sorcs carrying the Scroll should drop it when using Bolt Escape, just like crouching to hide, or attempting to mount.
The problem is that the ability can not be countered at this point in time. All you can really do is hope you have enough damage or enough people to kill the Sorcerer before he bolts away. In most games, gap closers exist as a counter to repositioning skills and escape mechanisms. In this game, however, its the other way around. A half decent Sorcerer is almost unkillable, and no class should have that kind of power. Besides, its not like a Sorcerer is suddenly useless if they decide to use bolt, they have other abilities to worry about. Their damage, range, and utility is not something you can just ignore.Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 8:53AM1 -
Zordrage✭✭✭✭✭the prob is that their is NO COUNTER to it seriously no matter what ability you say its good againts it the sorcerer will just out spam that ability
What? Why do you need a counter to someone running away? Is the fact you're still alive not a counter to an escape in and of itself? The kill doesn't belong to you just because you see them, it doesn't work that way. You don't get an automatic kill against a Sorcerer who opts to use Bolt ESCAPE, it simply doesn't work like that, otherwise they wouldn't a) use the ability b) have the ability in their arsenal in the first place.
Sorcerers can blink in to combat, deal some damage, and blink out - if they choose too. Sorcerers can deal no damage, and blink out of view when near enemies - if they choose too. Nightblades can teleport in and out of combat - if they choose too. Dragonknights can run in to combat, activate lots of tank abilities such as spell reflects, block, and heal themselves - if they choose too. Templars can drop Novas on entire closely packed zergs and decimate them with a smaller group - if they choose too. Wouldn't it all be boring if we got rid of each class' unique moves? No more blinking Sorcs, no more stealthy NBs, no more healing Templars, no more tanking DKs. Would be boring after all the people cry about things being greener on the other side of the fence.
everything you said here all the abilities is no way as OP as Bolt escape sorceres can just spam it FOREVER ! and keep you at range forever while also killing you.....
you get some help from a team WHATS THE FREAKEN POINT againts a sorc if he sees your team he just blinks away.....
stop defending this ***....1 -
Zaldoras✭✭✭everything you said here all the abilities is no way as OP as Bolt escape sorceres can just spam it FOREVER ! and keep you at range forever while also killing you.....
you get some help from a team WHATS THE FREAKEN POINT againts a sorc if he sees your team he just blinks away.....
stop defending this ***....
So what? Swallow your pride. If they aren't damaging you, it's not a problem, if they are, they won't get far if you actually pursue them. If you're not even prepared to change your build one bit, such as add a speed buff, you don't deserve the kill. Don't expect Zenimax to alter your opponents build so you don't have to.
Edited by Zaldoras on April 18, 2014 9:18AM0 -
SwampRaider✭✭✭✭✭Excuse me. You are calling for a bolt escape nerf? HAVE YOU NOT heard of horses? speed pots or ranged CC?
stop crying cuz you can't kill something
I am a templar, and I Toppling Charge/ throwing spear those bolt escapers ALL DAY SONNNNNNN. ALL DAYCharacter: Eros, Eros I I, The Paw of Woe
Class: Templar Healer/MagWarden/ Stam Sorc
Alliance: DC
Campaign: Vivec (pc/na)
Guardians of Daggerfall1 -
eol✭✭✭No question that this skill could use some adjustment, either in terms of magicka cost or effect, but it is far too powerful in its present form.
There are other skills that are too powerful and others that are too weak, and in time I hope those are balanced too. But their existence should not stop us from adjusting Bolt Escape, which is clearly too powerful right now. You cant allow a strong ranged dps class to have skills that allow them to escape the fight so quickly and easily, these games depend on a balance between offense and defense. Its pretty ridiculous right now.1 -
eol✭✭✭SwampRaider wrote: »Excuse me. You are calling for a bolt escape nerf? HAVE YOU NOT heard of horses? speed pots or ranged CC?
I am calling BS on this. Yes I have heard of all of those things, but a sorc at range can dps and with one bolt escape be out of range of pretty much anything. Several bolt escapes and they are gone, period, uncatchable. And as many posters have pointed out, there is no counter to this. I am not talking about a sorc in melee range, sure you can stop them before they get away, but that is not where a good sorc is, they are in the back at close to max range and the moment they see danger they can be out of range.
NB's have some powerful skills of out stealth for example which are deadly against a lot of players, but put magelight up and suddenly they aren't so powerful. There is nothing like that to counter sorc's escape bolt. It allows them the ability to make a very strong dps build without much defense (glass cannon), because this one skill allows them to escape danger in many situations. That is not balance, its the opposite of balance.
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SwampRaider✭✭✭✭✭SwampRaider wrote: »Excuse me. You are calling for a bolt escape nerf? HAVE YOU NOT heard of horses? speed pots or ranged CC?
I am calling BS on this. Yes I have heard of all of those things, but a sorc at range can dps and with one bolt escape be out of range of pretty much anything. Several bolt escapes and they are gone, period, uncatchable. And as many posters have pointed out, there is no counter to this. I am not talking about a sorc in melee range, sure you can stop them before they get away, but that is not where a good sorc is, they are in the back at close to max range and the moment they see danger they can be out of range.
NB's have some powerful skills of out stealth for example which are deadly against a lot of players, but put magelight up and suddenly they aren't so powerful. There is nothing like that to counter sorc's escape bolt. It allows them the ability to make a very strong dps build without much defense (glass cannon), because this one skill allows them to escape danger in many situations. That is not balance, its the opposite of balance.
The other day I chased a sorc down who was using bolt escape. Poor dear ran out of magicka and after 4 minutes of chasing i wrecked him to the ground. You can still kill Bolt escaping sorcs
Character: Eros, Eros I I, The Paw of Woe
Class: Templar Healer/MagWarden/ Stam Sorc
Alliance: DC
Campaign: Vivec (pc/na)
Guardians of Daggerfall0 -
Kolache✭✭✭✭SwampRaider wrote: »The other day I chased a sorc down who was using bolt escape. Poor dear ran out of magicka and after 4 minutes of chasing i wrecked him to the ground. You can still kill Bolt escaping sorcs
lol I imagine the level 30 Nord Sorcerers in full heavy armor/melee glyphs/jewelry with 0 points in Magicka are indeed not as hard to catch.Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.1 -
eol✭✭✭LOL, you sort of disproved your point if it takes 4 minutes of running to kill a character that uses **1 skill ** to escape. Because more often than not chasing a player for even a minute or two in a pvp area will lead you to more of his friends and you will be toast. The exception does not disprove the trend; Yao Ming is tall therefore all Chinese people are tall?? Seriously if the solution to Bolt Escape is chasing a player for 4 minutes, that is a grossly overpowered skill. Come on.0
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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i hope they make a skill called "one shot from 100 meters" people wont be able to cry because of the skill's name.jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »Bolt Scape is a no sense at this moment, this afternoon I saw a soccerer using more than 15 times this skill to scape, making impossible kill him.
No sh*t! It's called Bolt ESCAPE. If it was nerfed so it no longer allows you to escape, it becomes one of those useless abilities nobody uses. People give up ability slots for an ability that costs Magicka that is designed not to kill an enemy, but to get away, and people are crying like babies because "their kill" got away.
VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer4 -
dba.2000_ESO✭✭Chasing someone for 4 minutes ... why would you even do that? I've seen it hundreds of times, a pack will ride out, see 1 person, and chase them halfway across the map ...
I'm almost under the impression that a sorcerer Bolt Escaping offends those calling for a Nerf. 'OMG, a Mage is Bolt Escaping, I am offended, I will chase him halfway across the map now. And Bolt Escape is making it too hard! So Bolt Escape must be nerfed! '
Seriously, if a sorc is bolt escaping from death... let him go, kill someone else. Maybe kill some of us sorcs who are too lazy to run away from a fight.
But this call for Nerfing a skill because you have to chase someone down for 4 minutes ... there's a psychological issue at play here that you nerfers need to address, before zos wields the nerf hammer.0 -
beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭
Last I checked, water can be a solid. Its called "ice". If you are going to be a smart ass about something, try to including the smart next time. I mean, honestly...dba.2000_ESO wrote: »Chasing someone for 4 minutes ... why would you even do that? I've seen it hundreds of times, a pack will ride out, see 1 person, and chase them halfway across the map ...
I'm almost under the impression that a sorcerer Bolt Escaping offends those calling for a Nerf. 'OMG, a Mage is Bolt Escaping, I am offended, I will chase him halfway across the map now. And Bolt Escape is making it too hard! So Bolt Escape must be nerfed! '
Seriously, if a sorc is bolt escaping from death... let him go, kill someone else. Maybe kill some of us sorcs who are too lazy to run away from a fight.
But this call for Nerfing a skill because you have to chase someone down for 4 minutes ... there's a psychological issue at play here that you nerfers need to address, before zos wields the nerf hammer.
Yes, we are all psychologically insane... Are you happy now? *rolls eyes*
Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 4:01PM0 -
dba.2000_ESO✭✭I didn't say insane, I said there must be something driving you to chase a sorcerer halfway across the map and then complain because you've chased a sorcerer halfway across the map.0
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beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭dba.2000_ESO wrote: »I didn't say insane, I said there must be something driving you to chase a sorcerer halfway across the map and then complain because you've chased a sorcerer halfway across the map.
Yeah. PvP. I want to fight players, not watch them sail off into the distance while I sit there, twiddling my thumbs, wondering why I even bothered wasting my resources.Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 4:05PM2 -
dba.2000_ESO✭✭beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »dba.2000_ESO wrote: »I didn't say insane, I said there must be something driving you to chase a sorcerer halfway across the map and then complain because you've chased a sorcerer halfway across the map.
Yeah. PvP. I want to fight players, not watch them sail off into the distance while I sit there, twiddling my thumbs, wondering why I even bothered wasting my resources in the first place.
Then after they do Nerf Bolt Escape, we can thank people like you who don't want to twiddle their thumbs, and who also can't find anyone else to fight after the sorc bolts.0 -
beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭dba.2000_ESO wrote: »beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »dba.2000_ESO wrote: »I didn't say insane, I said there must be something driving you to chase a sorcerer halfway across the map and then complain because you've chased a sorcerer halfway across the map.
Yeah. PvP. I want to fight players, not watch them sail off into the distance while I sit there, twiddling my thumbs, wondering why I even bothered wasting my resources in the first place.
Then after they do Nerf Bolt Escape, we can thank people like you who don't want to twiddle their thumbs, and who also can't find anyone else to fight after the sorc bolts.
Oooooh, so because the ability exists, I should just ignore the enemy Sorcerer shooting me in the face and pretend he is not actually there. Thank you, I understand now, I have been playing the game wrong from the very start. My eyes have been opened.
Edit: On an unrelated note, I seem to have been quite the tool in my last few posts. I think I'll remove myself from the forums for a while and go watch a movie while I cool off. Sorry if I was acting like a ******, this debate just does not seem to be going anywhere.Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 4:29PM0 -
dba.2000_ESO✭✭First you don't want to watch them 'sail off into the distance' now you're complaining that they're shooting you in the face. Which is it?
He can't be both shooting you in the face and sailing off into the distance - unless he's bolting to a safe distance and using his range attacks... which is reasoning behind Bolt Escape.
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Zaldoras✭✭✭beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »Last I checked, water can be a solid. Its called "ice". If you are going to be a smart ass about something, try to including the smart next time. I mean, honestly...
Except I said water, not ice. So if you want to play the "I'm smarter than you game", I'm not obliging, sorry.
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This discussion has been closed.