Issues with the Warden Class.

Starlight_Knight · February 2020

I have been a Warden main since they came out, i have Max crafting, Grand overlord - most trials completed, Vet HM dungeons etc etc.
I have a good understanding of this class and would like to highlight some issues that are bugging me most.

Here are a few of the most annoying things i find about playing a Warden.

Bear - Ai issues - Bear not being present in fights, wanders off and gets stuck on things, dreadful for pvp due to its targeting and pathing. far to long summon time, being charged ulti and it doesn't hit the target. - it wont hit any dragon since Elsweyr including the ones in Sun-Spire.

Dive - To fast to line up for timed burst, (what it was made for) to slow for a spam-able. the new change to off-balance has changed its stun usability.

Swarm; Fetcher infection morph - the 50% extra damage on the second cast is impossible to utilise effectively, especially in pvp.

Netch, - has hidden cast time super ugly and annoying.

Secluded Grove ( Tree Ulti) - Has a very long hidden cast time on a skill that is marked as instant cast, Always interrupted and rarely goes off especailly during a BG. Any warden running a resto staff would chose resto ulti over this any day as that skill actually fires when you press it.

Healing Seed - Another skill with a cast time delay makes this skill awkward and clunky and interruptable

Living Vines - Great skill but always goes to someone you don't want it to.

Lotus Flower; Lotus Blossom magica morph - has no visual effects but the stam version makes your weapons glow awesome blue.

Natures Grasp - Super frustrating skill, Can be line of sited during its cast towards an ally, Rubber banding back to where you started from after the cast, Heals rarely going off.
( The animations of this are now used for the grappling hook )

Arctic Wind; Arctic Blast morph - A bizarre expensive skill that CCs, its dodge-able but after the enemy has been hit 3 times they are stunned... Serving only to grant your opponent CC immunity for when you are ready with your burst.

The Warden class feels very unpolished and the many changes its had have very much effected my relationship with it. i struggle to enjoy it as i find it clunky and irritating, i miss the old burst potential we had with the Shalks Cliffracer Forcepulse - The hidden cast times, interruptable instant cast skills and really long bear summon time needs to be addressed.

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain, but with no other options left now this is a problem. ( just in perspective can you imagine if they took the DK's CC's off fossilise, petrify, talons etc, or made it so Templar javelin wont CC, or made Nightblades fear only give off-balance.. this is what we're dealing with )

I really hope to see this class get some TLC and sort out this disassociation that many wardens are feeling.

We also need the pet skins we were teased when the Grey Slate Bear Skin was introduced, hopefully pet skins will also include a new type of netch or different pet altogether as this would help greatly in my enjoyment of the class.

Aelorin · February 2020

I agree with most, but not all of your points. There is also a thread for magwarden in the combat section of the forums.

Bear: I never seem to get this execute off. Replaced it with other skills.

Dive: Maybe the magicka version could stun when a target is close?

Swarm: Just let it do 125% damage all the time instead of 100% or 150%.

Netch: Don't touch my netch, must be one of my favorite skills

Grove: You are right, when targeted really hard to get this one off. Replaced it with the resto ultimate.

Nature's grasp: i really want to love this skill, but I do not. Not usable in PvP, not usable in PvE, too much targeting problems.

Artic Wind: I like this one, good heal, small HOT and delayed stun, what's not to like?

I do agree that a reliable stun would be a good addittion.

I made a thread with a suggestion for skins in the beta version forums(for sorcerer pets). That was in 2014. Don't think it is going to happen....

Brandathorbel · February 2020

Bear - Ai issues - Bear not being present in fights, wanders off and gets stuck on things, dreadful for pvp due to its targeting and pathing. far to long summon time, being charged ulti and it doesn't hit the target. - it wont hit any dragon since Elsweyr including the ones in Sun-Spire.

is this a pc only thing with the dragon. My bear has no issue hitting dragons and was doing upwards of 110k crits with its ultimate in execute mode.

as for pathing i dont have issues with it. Sometimes it happens but a heavy attack will make it go to the thing you want it to attack.

snoozy · February 2020

💯

January1171 · February 2020

Honestly I'm kindof surprised shalk isn't really in this list. I despise that skill. I know it's one of the go-to's for builds, but unless I'm fighting a boss the things I'm fighting are usually dead by the time it goes off, or I can never figure out the right time to recast.

Lysette · February 2020

The bear wandering off or getting into fights with some random bystander is why I normally do not summon it, if it isn't a fight, where I deem him necessary. Stamwarden can well play without the bear, it isn't a necessity to have him out all the time.

NeillMcAttack · February 2020

Strictly referring to the PvP prowess of the class.

Netch has a free purge on cast, due to this it should come with a cost. Health or mag.

Arctic wind is an amazing skill that helps keep players at an optimal range that suits the rest of the warden kit. Players that don’t move get stunned. Having a delayed stun has incredible advantages.

Shimmering shield is the real elephant in the room, in that it shuts down ranged enemies while granting you Major Heroism, the only class with access to this buff.

Healing thicket is insanely cheap for what it does, on the class with the most ultimate gen, it’s like a repentance without the major protection, should have a cast time like everything else.

Why is the 150% swarm hard to utilize? Because it can be purged? Poor timing? Wouldn’t this be the most potent dot in the game even at 125% the damage!?

I haven’t played much of the mag version tbh. But the kit seems strong, and IMO they are more powerful than mag temps, at least from what I see in PvP. I have never understood players complaining.

In the next patch (update 26) they will be adjusting how pets function server side, as such don’t expect to see any possible changes done to the bear prior to that.

HyperBeast · February 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Strictly referring to the PvP prowess of the class.

Netch has a free purge on cast, due to this it should come with a cost. Health or mag.

Arctic wind is an amazing skill that helps keep players at an optimal range that suits the rest of the warden kit. Players that don’t move get stunned. Having a delayed stun has incredible advantages.

Shimmering shield is the real elephant in the room, in that it shuts down ranged enemies while granting you Major Heroism, the only class with access to this buff.

Healing thicket is insanely cheap for what it does, on the class with the most ultimate gen, it’s like a repentance without the major protection, should have a cast time like everything else.

Why is the 150% swarm hard to utilize? Because it can be purged? Poor timing? Wouldn’t this be the most potent dot in the game even at 125% the damage!?

I haven’t played much of the mag version tbh. But the kit seems strong, and IMO they are more powerful than mag temps, at least from what I see in PvP. I have never understood players complaining.

In the next patch (update 26) they will be adjusting how pets function server side, as such don’t expect to see any possible changes done to the bear prior to that.

Magden better than magplar? Lmao

jircris11 · February 2020

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I have been a Warden main since they came out, i have Max crafting, Grand overlord - most trials completed, Vet HM dungeons etc etc.
I have a good understanding of this class and would like to highlight some issues that are bugging me most.

Here are a few of the most annoying things i find about playing a Warden.

Bear - Ai issues - Bear not being present in fights, wanders off and gets stuck on things, dreadful for pvp due to its targeting and pathing. far to long summon time, being charged ulti and it doesn't hit the target. - it wont hit any dragon since Elsweyr including the ones in Sun-Spire.

Dive - To fast to line up for timed burst, (what it was made for) to slow for a spam-able. the new change to off-balance has changed its stun usability.

Swarm; Fetcher infection morph - the 50% extra damage on the second cast is impossible to utilise effectively, especially in pvp.

Netch, - has hidden cast time super ugly and annoying.

Secluded Grove ( Tree Ulti) - Has a very long hidden cast time on a skill that is marked as instant cast, Always interrupted and rarely goes off especailly during a BG. Any warden running a resto staff would chose resto ulti over this any day as that skill actually fires when you press it.

Healing Seed - Another skill with a cast time delay makes this skill awkward and clunky and interruptable

Living Vines - Great skill but always goes to someone you don't want it to.

Lotus Flower; Lotus Blossom magica morph - has no visual effects but the stam version makes your weapons glow awesome blue.

Natures Grasp - Super frustrating skill, Can be line of sited during its cast towards an ally, Rubber banding back to where you started from after the cast, Heals rarely going off.
( The animations of this are now used for the grappling hook )

Arctic Wind; Arctic Blast morph - A bizarre expensive skill that CCs, its dodge-able but after the enemy has been hit 3 times they are stunned... Serving only to grant your opponent CC immunity for when you are ready with your burst.

The Warden class feels very unpolished and the many changes its had have very much effected my relationship with it. i struggle to enjoy it as i find it clunky and irritating, i miss the old burst potential we had with the Shalks Cliffracer Forcepulse - The hidden cast times, interruptable instant cast skills and really long bear summon time needs to be addressed.

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain, but with no other options left now this is a problem. ( just in perspective can you imagine if they took the DK's CC's off fossilise, petrify, talons etc, or made it so Templar javelin wont CC, or made Nightblades fear only give off-balance.. this is what we're dealing with )

I really hope to see this class get some TLC and sort out this disassociation that many wardens are feeling.

We also need the pet skins we were teased when the Grey Slate Bear Skin was introduced, hopefully pet skins will also include a new type of netch or different pet altogether as this would help greatly in my enjoyment of the class.

I have had my bear just *** off in the middle if a fight so many times. It's not as bad as older days on swtor where Quinn (my healer noc) aggroed a bunch of mobs then despawned leaving me to die.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

Arctic Blast is pretty awful as a realistic stun. it's an alright defensive stun and the heal is nice but we really don't need it over a good damaging offensive stun.

precambria · February 2020

Clunky animations made MUCH worse by the fact you cannot block cancel them is the only real gripe I have with my warden, it would be nice to have a single target class stun but wardens are WAY better off in that department than necro is.

Bear. Class execute awesome, to bad executes are only effective if they can be used with precise timing when your execute requires a derpy bear to be in range of the low health target it does not work at all, GIVE IT A GAP CLOSER make bear charge Ala critical rush and initiate the execute when it gets within 8 meters or this will never work. That would also allow use of the low cost ult to function as a "command bear" ability, or just remove the execute and put the stun on ult use for command bear and make the execute weaker but auto cast with a cooldown.

Dive. The stam version needs to have the bleed work from all ranges, it might be overtuned than but it is really dumb the way it is. I think it's more or less amazing otherwise, off balance, works perfectly to get the most out of passives as a spam spell make it basically my favorite of it's kind across all class.

Swarm. Best dot, best dot.

Netch. Best class self buff, pretty much.

Grove. Just add lag and it is pretty much not working with the cast time, otherwise awesome spell low cost and heals multiple targets applies passive ect. needs to be actually instant, not sure why one of the morphs doesn't make it a aura heal like eye of the storm but whatever.

Seed. YEAH cast time makes it literally painful to use this spell especially with the changes to animations and the extreme delay it won't go off than you end up casting it TWICE because of the fact it's not instant I hate using it even though it is amazing. MAKE IT LIKE CIRCLE, this crap with animations needs to end they are supposed to be visual FX not interfere with the flow of the game without cancelling it makes the spells actual effect secondary to not wanting to deal with your pace being destroyed by them

Vines, needs a morph that gives it multi targeting, as cool as leeching is especially for proc ICY CONJURE with the minor debuff it should be REACHING and basically be the radiating regen of green balance, that way if it went on the wrong dude it might have also gone on the right one, give the smart cast a recognition of the spell being on somebody already. OR make it proliferate itself on to multiple targets like a growing swarm of heals.

Lotus, it's a flower.

Arctic wind..... A: it's a *unblockable* AOE stun, it's a self heal, it's an AOE dot, it's a HoT, it's frost damage #justwardenthings
More different Arctic wind.. B: see A but add it heals the living CRAP out of people near you, is no longer a stun. This spell is the true spam spell to end them rule them and with brisky gusts to cool them.

Warden is the best PvP class. Shalks is the best thing that any class has. I love my warden so much I will never make a templar or play DK the animation thing NEEDS to be address for wardens especially but really for the whole game, there should not be a tactical advantage for classes that were created earlier on with more hasty less elaborate animation sorc suffers the least from lag of all my toons purely due to this fact

Fix necro, that class design is nonesense.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

My basic opinion of the class is that it is very unfinished when it comes to damage skills and themes. basically general damage identity. it's got too much funneled into passive damage increases and there isn't enough actual focus into it's damage skills.

here is how i would change the entire class:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

Here is how i would change arctic blast in a specific design document
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n68B7D2Zna4NNcDCiPp1zYmJP4KDh3n-PsRAI80RLnM/edit?usp=sharing

Solace1981 · February 2020

Don't forget Frozen Device. I use it on my warden tank since it's the only pull we have (not using leash) but 50% of the time, you cast it under an enemy, they start to teleport to you, then go back to their original location and are immobilized there which is super freaking annoying.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

Solace1981 wrote: »

Don't forget Frozen Device. I use it on my warden tank since it's the only pull we have (not using leash) but 50% of the time, you cast it under an enemy, they start to teleport to you, then go back to their original location and are immobilized there which is super freaking annoying.

that's an issue i have covered in my document.

Iskiab · February 2020

My only issues so far:

Lotus flower: it’s a good skill in theory but it’s too expensive. I had to run an extra mag recovery glyph to carry it, so the opportunity cost compared to inner light is crazy high.

Dive: too slow and not a good spammable. Too easy to dodge roll.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

My only issues so far:

Lotus flower: it’s a good skill in theory but it’s too expensive. I had to run an extra mag recovery glyph to carry it, so the opportunity cost compared to inner light is crazy high.

Dive: too slow and not a good spammable. Too easy to dodge roll.

Dive's off balance and morph effects need changes. the range stuff needs to be reversed to be better at short ranges instead of long, and the bleed from cutting needs to have no proc condition other than hitting the bird + having only 3 stacks that deal decent damage.

Iskiab · February 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

My only issues so far:

Lotus flower: it’s a good skill in theory but it’s too expensive. I had to run an extra mag recovery glyph to carry it, so the opportunity cost compared to inner light is crazy high.

Dive: too slow and not a good spammable. Too easy to dodge roll.

Dive's off balance and morph effects need changes. the range stuff needs to be reversed to be better at short ranges instead of long, and the bleed from cutting needs to have no proc condition other than hitting the bird + having only 3 stacks that deal decent damage.

There’s a bleed on dive? I haven’t played with it much, I used to use it as a delayed damage ability instead of spammable: bugs - dive - invig.

I dropped it for force pulse. I’m not that experienced with warden but these seemed like the stand outs.

The bonus damage on the dot I never played with much. I haven’t used any dots in pvp since the nerf, so am not sure if I haven’t figured it out yet or if it’s bad. Being strong for a dot is like being first place in a basket weaving contest: you won but are you proud?

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

My only issues so far:

Lotus flower: it’s a good skill in theory but it’s too expensive. I had to run an extra mag recovery glyph to carry it, so the opportunity cost compared to inner light is crazy high.

Dive: too slow and not a good spammable. Too easy to dodge roll.

Dive's off balance and morph effects need changes. the range stuff needs to be reversed to be better at short ranges instead of long, and the bleed from cutting needs to have no proc condition other than hitting the bird + having only 3 stacks that deal decent damage.

There’s a bleed on dive? I haven’t played with it much, I used to use it as a delayed damage ability instead of spammable: bugs - dive - invig.

I dropped it for force pulse. I’m not that experienced with warden but these seemed like the stand outs.

The bonus damage on the dot I never played with much. I haven’t used any dots in pvp since the nerf, so am not sure if I haven’t figured it out yet or if it’s bad. Being strong for a dot is like being first place in a basket weaving contest: you won but are you proud?

SCR still has the same morph effect, but the stamina counterpart "Cutting Dive" now has a bleed. it has 7 stacks. those stacks are gained by hitting the off-balance target with dive again. if it sounds complex, that's because it is. and it's stupid.

precambria · February 2020

Solace1981 wrote: »

Don't forget Frozen Device. I use it on my warden tank since it's the only pull we have (not using leash) but 50% of the time, you cast it under an enemy, they start to teleport to you, then go back to their original location and are immobilized there which is super freaking annoying.

Stand in Lava in Foyada quarry and spam this, you won't make any friends but it's good for a laugh, other thing to do is cast it under your own team this can be done in advance of a push to not waste time during that should be used on heal you the immobilize and major maim will cripple the incoming attackers. It's bugged and should probably be redesigned to something practical, the ANIMATION again is what ruins it the cast is extremely slow

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

precambria wrote: »

Solace1981 wrote: »

Don't forget Frozen Device. I use it on my warden tank since it's the only pull we have (not using leash) but 50% of the time, you cast it under an enemy, they start to teleport to you, then go back to their original location and are immobilized there which is super freaking annoying.

Stand in Lava in Foyada quarry and spam this, you won't make any friends but it's good for a laugh, other thing to do is cast it under your own team this can be done in advance of a push to not waste time during that should be used on heal you the immobilize and major maim will cripple the incoming attackers. It's bugged and should probably be redesigned to something practical, the ANIMATION again is what ruins it the cast is extremely slow

i mean, you can do this with silver leash or dk chains as well, this skill is the 2nd worst of the 4 pull skills to do it with

Nerouyn · February 2020

Sadly half of my characters are wardens cos I'm that into naturey ***.

I'm abandoning them to be storage mules cos this class is a hot mess. Pretty and they have a few functional abilities, but since most of them aren't functional they're super boring to play.

About a third of a class at best.

January1171 wrote: »

Honestly I'm kindof surprised shalk isn't really in this list. I despise that skill. I know it's one of the go-to's for builds, but unless I'm fighting a boss the things I'm fighting are usually dead by the time it goes off, or I can never figure out the right time to recast.

Ideally you first cast it several seconds before getting within range of whatever you want to hit with it.

Then again after it goes off. If that's even necessary. Most PvE mobs won't need a second.

oxygen_thief · February 2020

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain

this crap drain is so annoying on top of the warden snares tankiness and healing

ESO_Nightingale · March 2020

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain

this crap drain is so annoying on top of the warden snares tankiness and healing

well drain is gone now too.

oxygen_thief · March 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain

this crap drain is so annoying on top of the warden snares tankiness and healing

well drain is gone now too.

what do you mean? i fought wardens today in ic and battlegrounds they used it on kd

ESO_Nightingale · March 2020

oxygen_thief wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain

this crap drain is so annoying on top of the warden snares tankiness and healing

well drain is gone now too.

what do you mean? i fought wardens today in ic and battlegrounds they used it on kd

as a stun it's gone. less reason to use it. though i guess i have still seen it around. it's weird right now.

Path · March 2020

My Bear just gets hungry and wanders off to bite the nearest thing.
Eh...it's a bear.

ESO_Nightingale · March 2020

Path wrote: »

My Bear just gets hungry and wanders off to bite the nearest thing.
Eh...it's a bear.

i don't even think it has the brain to do that.

oxygen_thief · March 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain

this crap drain is so annoying on top of the warden snares tankiness and healing

well drain is gone now too.

what do you mean? i fought wardens today in ic and battlegrounds they used it on kd

as a stun it's gone. less reason to use it. though i guess i have still seen it around. it's weird right now.

are you sure? why was i stunned then?

ESO_Nightingale · March 2020

oxygen_thief wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain

this crap drain is so annoying on top of the warden snares tankiness and healing

well drain is gone now too.

what do you mean? i fought wardens today in ic and battlegrounds they used it on kd

as a stun it's gone. less reason to use it. though i guess i have still seen it around. it's weird right now.

are you sure? why was i stunned then?

omg. i mean that it's no longer viable as a real stun that you actively use to quickly time into combos. now it just stuns at the end which can work against you.

ForzaRammer · March 2020

Yes, plz buff leeching vines. Just make it self target + 1 friendly would make it work.

LeHarrt91 · March 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Strictly referring to the PvP prowess of the class.

Netch has a free purge on cast, due to this it should come with a cost. Health or mag.

Arctic wind is an amazing skill that helps keep players at an optimal range that suits the rest of the warden kit. Players that don’t move get stunned. Having a delayed stun has incredible advantages.

Shimmering shield is the real elephant in the room, in that it shuts down ranged enemies while granting you Major Heroism, the only class with access to this buff.

Healing thicket is insanely cheap for what it does, on the class with the most ultimate gen, it’s like a repentance without the major protection, should have a cast time like everything else.

Why is the 150% swarm hard to utilize? Because it can be purged? Poor timing? Wouldn’t this be the most potent dot in the game even at 125% the damage!?

I haven’t played much of the mag version tbh. But the kit seems strong, and IMO they are more powerful than mag temps, at least from what I see in PvP. I have never understood players complaining.

In the next patch (update 26) they will be adjusting how pets function server side, as such don’t expect to see any possible changes done to the bear prior to that.

With Netch its cast time/ long animation is its cost. Same with Thicket, it does have a slight cast time and will often fail if ani cancelled.

In regards to Swarm its that its lacklustre until you cast it a second time. Should be changed to increase damage every 2s each cast.