iCaliban wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Necros have always been good, just needed to learn how to play the class even before they help fixed Blastbones, they didnt even buff it's damage.

You only cry because you never got rofl stomped by a good necro before. All this patch did was make sure blastbones don't come out and do a blank stare then die.

All classes are OP, and have there own gimmick, stop crying because someone used major defile on you. It's one of the necromancers main moves.

Agreed.

I don't even see defile as a bad thing seeing as healing is still too easy. I mean yeah it hits hard but it has counters. I dodged a few in a BG a little while ago, purged defile other times.

Defile on a damage skill with 100% uptime does not have counters. Blastbones can cost as little as 1k stam. Purge is a losing game against it, and the aoe is not dodgeable in most instances.

Commandment wrote: »

Necros have always been good, just needed to learn how to play the class even before they help fixed Blastbones, they didnt even buff it's damage.

You only cry because you never got rofl stomped by a good necro before. All this patch did was make sure blastbones don't come out and do a blank stare then die.

All classes are OP, and have there own gimmick, stop crying because someone used major defile on you. It's one of the necromancers main moves.

Yea. Im not crying about anything.

Devs literally nerfed every single source of major defile in game because it was too strong. Then attach 100% uptime to a high damage skill? Doesnt take a genius to figure out something is wrong there

Thats the class specialty, takes buttons press+ 2.5 for it to come out the ground + 1-2 seconds to reach the enemy. what 100% up time are you talking about? They can also be cc'd.

Makes no difference if your fighting a sweaty magtemplar who spams 1 button lol

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

You probably don't understand the sequence of all changes every patch. The General healing was edited so that Stamcro had access to Defile. You want to delete Defile but still stay on the current healing. Great idea!!!

And you're assuming everyone has a pocket healer or access to 100% uptime on 30% less healing.

General healing is general healing. This applies to Vigor and Reg and the rest of the healing class abilities. If we consider this chain in the same way, after increasing the healing, the Mending buff and Vitality buff also became stronger. I think the DoT patch was related to healing testing.

Stamcros have the best self healing in the game and 100% on uptime on major defile. Stop excusing your need for a crutch.

Stop trying to impose their vision. I didn't even try to play this patch in pvp. How could you have any idea of my needs? In General, you have indicated your type of cause-and-effect relationship, it is called Stamcro has good self healing. I don't think we should continue the discussion after your answer. So as you ignored raising productivity such buffs as Mending and Vitality and responded as you need.

If you haven't done any pvp in this patch, it means you don't know what you're talking about and should stay out of this discussion.

"Oh, i haven't experienced this yet, but i'm going to give my opinion about it anyways."

What a champ!

I had enough PTS time to check what it would look like. Again, you try to impose your opinion and pretend that you understand this issue. It doesn't change that you continue to ignore the issue of healing and the performance of buffs Vitality and Mending. Devs thought it all out when they increased healing. The current healing is based on the fact that you can resist Defile. As for Stamcro counters, Templar is its main counter and helps itself and others resist. Judging by the fact that TS agrees with you and also does not know the circumstances of my tests, who will take his topic seriously. It is possible that your arrogance has no limit, and I like a fool crucify and answer, although you just omit important details when answering when you need it.

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

One thing they could do is to remove defile and give major fracture instead, mag could get major breach, even though shalks already do that. Minor main could also be an option.

Also necro don't have access to major sorcery/brutality, so they could add something like "upon activation you get major brutality (major sorcery for mag morph) for x seconds".

Major Fracture can be presented as a solution, but Necro already has an Unnerving Boneyard. Most likely, Stamcro will not use a spell based on magica. It also doesn't have its own buffs except for Major Protection. So it's normal that Stamcro has access to Defile. I wouldn't want all the characters to be the same.

P. S. I'll leave this here so that you can at least try to correctly indicate assumptions about my needs. Here is my comment from the topic tangent NB.

I'd like to see the redesigned lifesteel mechanics. I think lifesteel should ignore the % resists on which it heals. This is vampirism(I'm not talking about vampires) it should have a different damage structure at the very beginning. After that, devs can add a new buff Major Lifesteel and first make this buff an identity for NB. I think it would help a lot for Stamblade and for Magblade. With their type of explosions and their types of Windows, they could continue to create pressure by healing from the blows, a new chain of explosions would be laid for the entire class. Tank guys should go on the defensive, and heal, but this should not be a problem NB he should continue to create pressure by playing his game, not the game of tanks. I also want to add that the lifesteel theme is suitable for NB in General.

I don't think this will mess up gank builds, on the contrary, it may have the potential to create new builds that are not only based on gank. It can also help create new styles.

Juhasow wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed.

In this update bomber leap is basically instant after fixes it recived. It takes like 0,5 sec for skeleton to reach the target from any distance. You basically click the ability then the animation of summoning happens , bomber is spawning and then immidiately jumps onto target. That is also an issue for magicka morph because whole design of "the more seconds it runs the harder it hits" is pointless now when bomber is reaching enemy always so quickly without running to it. And yes because of that You can keep close to 100% uptime on major defile as stamnecro. And that is OP's main point. That with current improvements bomber got , effectiveness of stamnecro went up when it was already very high.

In fact, it takes about 1 second, but I do not argue, 100% uptime can be harmful to the game.

+ cost 800 stamina with Reusable Parts and Summoner's Armor (even with NMA!)
+ AOE damage with Fury + NMA around 20k (tooltip, pretty much same as Sub Assault)
+ AOE MAJOR Defile (really hard to come by nowadays
+ targeting fixed

And anyone saying you should just kill it before it hits, don't you think it's quite unfair to use +2k stamina to kill that skeleton, which cost 800 stamina, only to be chased by another a second later?

I mean what were they thinking? Unless they want people to buy the expansion for Necro... Hmm, sounds like a situation we've been in before hmmmm..

If only some people here on the forums would've said this skill will be OP if the targeting is fixed.. someone saying such things, I don't know, like 5-6 months ago..

Whats funny is, lets take nbs Incap as example, sure incap needed a nerf from its original form, but they removed the stun, the defile, increased the cost and gave it a cast time. The necromancers was made and ...well yea this:

iCaliban wrote: »

Devs literally nerfed every single source of major defile in game because it was too strong. Then attach 100% uptime to a high damage skill? Doesnt take a genius to figure out something is wrong there

Juhasow wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

+ cost 800 stamina with Reusable Parts and Summoner's Armor (even with NMA!)
+ AOE damage with Fury + NMA around 20k (tooltip, pretty much same as Sub Assault)
+ AOE MAJOR Defile (really hard to come by nowadays
+ targeting fixed

And anyone saying you should just kill it before it hits, don't you think it's quite unfair to use +2k stamina to kill that skeleton, which cost 800 stamina, only to be chased by another a second later?

I mean what were they thinking? Unless they want people to buy the expansion for Necro... Hmm, sounds like a situation we've been in before hmmmm..

If only some people here on the forums would've said this skill will be OP if the targeting is fixed.. someone saying such things, I don't know, like 5-6 months ago..

Look at Commandment's post above you, not chased a second later, probably around 4-5 seconds later. Also it is pretty easy to avoid. I was in a BG earlier and it was Capture the Relic, a teammate and I got the relic and were the only ones in the area besides one enemy, stamcro. Stamcro chased us a bit and used Blastbones… my teammate and I apparently out ran it cause it never hit us and like I said no one else was in the area. (everyone else was doing like a deathmatch at the other relic lol)

They don't need to sell Necro's anymore really because with this expansion coming they are free and so is Summerset and Vvardenfell.

It's not "easy to avoid". You need very specific circumstances to outrun it and if You're running away from it then You don't damage the necro that is casting it so You're not an issue for him. The moment You'll start fighting is the moment when it counts. if we would judge effectiveness of abilities based on the fact people can run away from them then half of abilities in the game could be called weak. Also necro won't be free. You'll most propably still have to buy it separately from crown store same as You need to buy warden if You don't have specific type of game edition purchased.

It is advertised in the store when you look at Greymoor, it says:

Explore the island of Vvardenfell, harness nature-based magic as the Warden class, and more! Includes instant access to Morrowind Chapter and Collector's Edition digital items.

and same goes for Elsweyr:

Save the Khajiit of Elsweyr from a rage of Dragons and wield the powerful Necromancer class. Includes instant access to Elsweyr Chapter and Collector's Edition digital items.

Also when I bought a second account, after Summerset... around the time of Murkmire, I got Warden for free.

The fact is, imo, Defile has counters but players won't use them cause they are "niche" (literally what someone told me). I do think Blastbones will get nerfed by years end in typical ZOS style. I just hope with the changes they don't break BB again. I like that mine works.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

+ cost 800 stamina with Reusable Parts and Summoner's Armor (even with NMA!)
+ AOE damage with Fury + NMA around 20k (tooltip, pretty much same as Sub Assault)
+ AOE MAJOR Defile (really hard to come by nowadays
+ targeting fixed

And anyone saying you should just kill it before it hits, don't you think it's quite unfair to use +2k stamina to kill that skeleton, which cost 800 stamina, only to be chased by another a second later?

I mean what were they thinking? Unless they want people to buy the expansion for Necro... Hmm, sounds like a situation we've been in before hmmmm..

If only some people here on the forums would've said this skill will be OP if the targeting is fixed.. someone saying such things, I don't know, like 5-6 months ago..

Look at Commandment's post above you, not chased a second later, probably around 4-5 seconds later. Also it is pretty easy to avoid. I was in a BG earlier and it was Capture the Relic, a teammate and I got the relic and were the only ones in the area besides one enemy, stamcro. Stamcro chased us a bit and used Blastbones… my teammate and I apparently out ran it cause it never hit us and like I said no one else was in the area. (everyone else was doing like a deathmatch at the other relic lol)

They don't need to sell Necro's anymore really because with this expansion coming they are free and so is Summerset and Vvardenfell.

it's every 4th gcd at around 8m+, 3rd gcd in melee.

precambria wrote: »

I mean I have to agree it's pretty strong, prior to this patch breaking the game it was useful for killing stamina players. That being said it is no more over tuned than matriarch heals, 7-8k frags that can chain into each other, northern storm destroying everything in it's path, Jabs that kill you outright, Dunk execute that kills you outright, every class seems to have something more off the chain than major defile which wardens have and previously could apply with way more ease than a necro ever could.

AS long as harmony graves is basically deleting 3-4 players at a time with such a high degree of regularity I don't see how stambone is a real problem, you can cleanse defile, defile does not stop you from still heal spamming it barely slows down full healers in anything other than group play (which is gone), the damage it does is in no way over tuned compared to what every other class has at it's disposal, necro is IMMOBILE as all hell making it super easy to avoid being constantly defiled if that is your priority they don't even have a class CC aside from the one you have to intentionally walk into,

There are TONs of counter play options for fighting a immobile stam toon with the least burst of any of them, just not wanting to deal with there being defile is not a good reason for it to be changed, you can literally just walk away from it and stop 3 shotting people while it clears if you so choose. Necro ULT , major vuln can be cleansed it is extremely easy to miss or just avoid the damage it's >an ult< it requires followup or combo to be useful, see grouping is gone now.

One shotting needs to be gone before we get back to a point of addressing major buffs and debuffs imo, using stambone it feels good but it feels way way less powerful than even just subassault with fracture in a burst oriented state of PvP, it slows sorcs down *slightly* because they don't have a cleanse but lets be honest that 30% should be cut off their heal anyway, it allows you to actually kill other stam toons who's only heals are vigor rally which is a good thing no?

i have never once experienced these harmony "deleting 3-4 players at a time" builds. who is dying to these builds? the same players who would get 1vX'd by a stamdk in heavy using only dizzy and leap? i've ran into these necros who try for hours to set up this harmony burst, but even if i get really lazy and get caught, it's still so channeled and so obvious that you have to be asleep to actually die to this setup. maybe it's more effective in BGs where a necro might sneak in a boneyard or something from behind?

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

I mean I have to agree it's pretty strong, prior to this patch breaking the game it was useful for killing stamina players. That being said it is no more over tuned than matriarch heals, 7-8k frags that can chain into each other, northern storm destroying everything in it's path, Jabs that kill you outright, Dunk execute that kills you outright, every class seems to have something more off the chain than major defile which wardens have and previously could apply with way more ease than a necro ever could.

AS long as harmony graves is basically deleting 3-4 players at a time with such a high degree of regularity I don't see how stambone is a real problem, you can cleanse defile, defile does not stop you from still heal spamming it barely slows down full healers in anything other than group play (which is gone), the damage it does is in no way over tuned compared to what every other class has at it's disposal, necro is IMMOBILE as all hell making it super easy to avoid being constantly defiled if that is your priority they don't even have a class CC aside from the one you have to intentionally walk into,

There are TONs of counter play options for fighting a immobile stam toon with the least burst of any of them, just not wanting to deal with there being defile is not a good reason for it to be changed, you can literally just walk away from it and stop 3 shotting people while it clears if you so choose. Necro ULT , major vuln can be cleansed it is extremely easy to miss or just avoid the damage it's >an ult< it requires followup or combo to be useful, see grouping is gone now.

One shotting needs to be gone before we get back to a point of addressing major buffs and debuffs imo, using stambone it feels good but it feels way way less powerful than even just subassault with fracture in a burst oriented state of PvP, it slows sorcs down *slightly* because they don't have a cleanse but lets be honest that 30% should be cut off their heal anyway, it allows you to actually kill other stam toons who's only heals are vigor rally which is a good thing no?

not everyone has 5k mag to purge every couple of secs
stamnecro isnt really immobile due to it being a stam spec
they have really good burst on par with dk and stamplar
and no one gets outright instantly oneshotted if they know what they're doing
100 percent uptime is allowed tho for necro but its too much to have for incap kek

I agree Stamcro has a good burst, but it can't be equal to StamDK and Stamplar. Because StamDK has +10%WD, when WD starts crawling above 6k+ it equals 600WD+, which in turn is equivalent to a good set. Stamplar kit also has a Balanced Warrior and Piercing Spear. People who write that they run about 8k WD on Stamcro most likely they exaggerate, it's either CP zergs or CP smallscale.

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

I mean I have to agree it's pretty strong, prior to this patch breaking the game it was useful for killing stamina players. That being said it is no more over tuned than matriarch heals, 7-8k frags that can chain into each other, northern storm destroying everything in it's path, Jabs that kill you outright, Dunk execute that kills you outright, every class seems to have something more off the chain than major defile which wardens have and previously could apply with way more ease than a necro ever could.

AS long as harmony graves is basically deleting 3-4 players at a time with such a high degree of regularity I don't see how stambone is a real problem, you can cleanse defile, defile does not stop you from still heal spamming it barely slows down full healers in anything other than group play (which is gone), the damage it does is in no way over tuned compared to what every other class has at it's disposal, necro is IMMOBILE as all hell making it super easy to avoid being constantly defiled if that is your priority they don't even have a class CC aside from the one you have to intentionally walk into,

There are TONs of counter play options for fighting a immobile stam toon with the least burst of any of them, just not wanting to deal with there being defile is not a good reason for it to be changed, you can literally just walk away from it and stop 3 shotting people while it clears if you so choose. Necro ULT , major vuln can be cleansed it is extremely easy to miss or just avoid the damage it's >an ult< it requires followup or combo to be useful, see grouping is gone now.

One shotting needs to be gone before we get back to a point of addressing major buffs and debuffs imo, using stambone it feels good but it feels way way less powerful than even just subassault with fracture in a burst oriented state of PvP, it slows sorcs down *slightly* because they don't have a cleanse but lets be honest that 30% should be cut off their heal anyway, it allows you to actually kill other stam toons who's only heals are vigor rally which is a good thing no?

not everyone has 5k mag to purge every couple of secs
stamnecro isnt really immobile due to it being a stam spec
they have really good burst on par with dk and stamplar
and no one gets outright instantly oneshotted if they know what they're doing
100 percent uptime is allowed tho for necro but its too much to have for incap kek

I agree Stamcro has a good burst, but it can't be equal to StamDK and Stamplar. Because StamDK has +10%WD, when WD starts crawling above 6k+ it equals 600WD+, which in turn is equivalent to a good set. Stamplar kit also has a Balanced Warrior and Piercing Spear. People who write that they run about 8k WD on Stamcro most likely they exaggerate, it's either CP zergs or CP smallscale.

yeah necro also has a purge that basically costs nothing, free percent mitigation, free 200 stam recov, bonus execute crit , penetration, 15 percent dot reduc, crit healing chance and minor mending plus 100 percent upitime on defile

I agree, but for a Stamcro that relies on hot, you don't need a purge. Why deprive yourself of the ability to use "minor mending"? 15 percent dot reduce is a good passive, it also works in conjunction with" minor mending " and can help you avoid using CP thick skinned. Most likely, you will already be torn by a good player on Stamcro, when bonus execute crit starts working.
Stamcro creates pressure by relying on AoE Defile, as in the case of Stam DK which creates pressure by relying on AoE Major Fracture with 100% uptime. I'm not trying to compare these debuffs, I think the classes should be different. Understand that if you remove Defile there will be no way back and Stamcro will become just a wrapper and most likely we will never see changes on other classes.
P. S. I think it's a great idea to let one class manage defile in battles. I hope other classes will get the same love, but this requires an extension of the mechanics, new buffs and debuffs.