Maintenance for the week of December 15:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
Why the obsession with vigor?
-
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭First off, if one is queueing solo for a dungeon one is asking for low skilled players.
Dunno where and why this misconception still exists. I would say apart from newbies in non-DLC dungeons, most of the pugs I come across do the content well, and a large number absolutely smash it. My last bad experience was with high level pvpers, who kept trying to bowgank their way through Volenfell, and that was... a LONG time ago. Months.3 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »Also I'd say the individual not running the meta is more foolish.
Unless he's going for a scoreboard, many non-meta builds can be effective. So no....
That wasn't my argument. Read my response again.0 -
Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration
The difference between 2h/dw is minimal right now, with certain classes 2h works even stronger. Maybe not in case stamplar, but playing 2h in pve is not meme anymore.
My stamplar runs 2h/bow and hits like a truck. If people are expecting l33t trial run dps then they need to stay their behinds in their trial guilds and leave the rest of the sane playerbase alone.
The toxicity against the toxic players is nuts in this game.
FTFYPenniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus5 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Were you dying? How did it even come up?
Didn't die at all in that dungeon unless the tank or healer died first. I was doing mechanics properly and doing dps. in fact it was the tank who insisted on "just burn" and seemed to think mechanics dont matter.
People who try and push meta on others should be rounded up and perma banned for the good of the community. getting sick of running into those idiot types.
Yea, agreed, it’s pretty common in MMOs and life in general.
People who’re intelligent when something goes wrong try and figure out what why. Those who’re dumb just get mad because they have no other response because they are smart enough to diagnose the issue.
Unfortunately there’s no combat log in ESO so people are in the dark. If you don’t have the tools to diagnose then you have to guess. First things people will look at?
Is tank X spec/class
Is healer X spec/class
Are dps X spec/class
You were picked because without any other information you were easiest to blame. People actually thought no combat log or dps parsers would lead to less competition or leading to a meta... whoever thought that doesn’t understand people and are idiots.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »Strider__Roshin wrote: »Also I'd say the individual not running the meta is more foolish.
Unless he's going for a scoreboard, many non-meta builds can be effective. So no....
That wasn't my argument. Read my response again.
If I couldn't find a coherent argument the first time around, I doubt a repeat viewing will improve the situation.5 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »As a dk tank, if I'm pugging, I like to slot echoing vigor. If things are going well then I might slot something else.
I would never tell someone what to do, but I might ask for someone to help with an add on a boss or something.
I run Echoing Vigor on my Warden Powerful Assault build.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First off, if one is queueing solo for a dungeon one is asking for low skilled players.
Dunno where and why this misconception still exists. I would say apart from newbies in non-DLC dungeons, most of the pugs I come across do the content well, and a large number absolutely smash it. My last bad experience was with high level pvpers, who kept trying to bowgank their way through Volenfell, and that was... a LONG time ago. Months.
It is not a misconception but a solid fact. You even point out you can get newbies and you pointed out a bad experience which just proves my point is correct. I also did not say one never get decent players.
I used to queue as a tank to help the GF though I mostly ran dungeons with my raiding guilds. I stopped queueing solo as a tank after experiences where the DPS was on par with my trial tanks dps and a few cases they could not even get past some bosses. I started queueing as a healer and it was rare my healer dps was more than half the total dps. I stopped that altogether after some fake tanks with really bad dps and to clueless to block or get out of mechanics that would one-shot anyone that was not a tank.
So yea, when I formed up my own group the experience is far superior to a random GF group. I never had any of those sad experiences running with a premade. Queue solo and you are asking for a bad group. Every time you get a decent group count yourself lucky.0 -
xshatox✭✭✭✭Some PVE'ers not familiar with rally so it make sense.
Most popular and universal heals for stam is vigor so they assume if you dont have vigor you dont have heal. Although coagulating blood can be effective heal if you are dk.1 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Maybe they were hoping for the group heal? If you are DPS role it's not your responsibility to heal anyone though.
I don't bother with PvP so my stamina toons generally slot Draining Shot for emergencies.
I'm a stamblade and use draining shot for emergencies as well. Works really well.
I want nothing to do with PvP, doesn't interest me anymore, so I'm just doing PVE content. I haven't really had any issues with draining shot slotted.0 -
woe✭✭✭✭Vigor is wonderful for solo content but when you're doing group and have a dedicated healer there is definitely not a need for it.uwu2 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Just to add another point. Any skill in ESO should not be seen in isolation. Vigor, or any other skill, is simply one in a large arsenal of tools that includes the following:- Skills on your bars
- Skills unlocked but not on your bars
- Choice of morphs
- Gear
- Consumables (food/drink and potions)
- Content being run (pve/pvp) also (progression/farm) or (cp pvp/noncp pvp)
- Regular group members or Pugs
- And so on.
There are many things to take into consideration. Vigor is an excellent skill. But so are a great many other things that could be slotted. But a complete stranger is probably being irrational if he wants you to run a particular thing 'just because'.
On a side note about meta builds. I see meta as a sort of standard that the community has accepted, but not necessarily the only way to do something. When dealing with pugs though, it may be easier to have success in group content (pve/pvp) if running something close to meta because it is a common benchmark.1 -
Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭quite a few stam classes struggle to heal themselves without vigor. stam NB and stamplar come to mind. stam sorc has very little use for vigor in pve because crit surge is so good, and in my experience stam dk can make do with bloodthirst and blood craze, but vigor is nice if you're struggling
using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration
I run a dw/bow stamblade in PvE. If I solo world bosses I usually end up using Vigor 1 or 2 times in the fight, the rest of the time Leeching Strikes + Spectral Arrow from Relentless Focus keeps my health up. In pug dungeons I tend to have it slotted, but if the groups is average or better I never use it.
When I take my 2h/bow PvP character into PvE, Rally + LS/RF is more than enough to keep myself alive, almost never use Vigor there. For PvP though, Resolving Vigor is a must for my character.
It's a great "oh crap" heal to have for when you really need it, especially you have a lot of weapon damage.Edited by Bucky_13 on February 24, 2020 9:34AM0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vigor is definitely useful for some situations but in general its the healers job to provide healing. Whats the use of the healer if all DDs have to run self-heals? Vigor is also not a cheap skill to cast so sustain and dps will suffer if you have to use it often. I can understand it for runs with 3 DDs and a tank but otherwise its just nonsense.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hey Dazee
First, they’re wrong. And even if they were correct about vigor, whispering abuse is the mark of an idiot and should not be tolerated.
The only thing I can assume is that not only are they an arse, but they’re also ignorant. Because vigor has a very visible effect, many players see that as the ‘only’ self-heal dd players can have. So to them saying ‘haven’t you even got vigor?’ Is really them going ‘don’t you have a self-heal?’.
They’re also incorrect that dd’s always need a self-heal. In one of my regular 4 player groups, our healer is so good our self-heals can be replaced with damage dealing skills, meaning we can do more damage. Indeed he takes any of us slotting a self-heal as a bit of a personal affront (in a jokey way obv). But that’s not a route I’d go down with PUGs.
3 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gotta love l33ts and their toxicity. Play how you like, OP. Build for you, not them.4 -
Tatanko✭✭✭✭
Not so long ago, Caltrops was part of every stamina DPS build.not to mention that Vigor is only available if you PVP so to assume that anyone in a pug has it when a large amount of the player base has never been there is, well, a bit daft.
A dead damage dealer deals no damageSeptimus_Magna wrote: »in general its the healers job to provide healing
2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
True, in an dungeon with an real healer you don't need vigor. With 3 dd or with an weak healer you should.Bradyfjord wrote: »Just to add another point. Any skill in ESO should not be seen in isolation. Vigor, or any other skill, is simply one in a large arsenal of tools that includes the following:- Skills on your bars
- Skills unlocked but not on your bars
- Choice of morphs
- Gear
- Consumables (food/drink and potions)
- Content being run (pve/pvp) also (progression/farm) or (cp pvp/noncp pvp)
- Regular group members or Pugs
- And so on.
There are many things to take into consideration. Vigor is an excellent skill. But so are a great many other things that could be slotted. But a complete stranger is probably being irrational if he wants you to run a particular thing 'just because'.
On a side note about meta builds. I see meta as a sort of standard that the community has accepted, but not necessarily the only way to do something. When dealing with pugs though, it may be easier to have success in group content (pve/pvp) if running something close to meta because it is a common benchmark.
In some fights like CoS there you split up and take damage on last boss its also smart.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭a few things..play as you want, but if it negatively impacts your group expect negative feedback.....some of you go hard on "l33ts" to the point where you are just as bad as the meta humpers who you are complaining about....also, to touch on the meta discussion, there are reasons why builds are "meta" and a lot of testing and math etc has been done to get them to that point, and unless you are quite good at theory crafting and can play effectively on the "off" builds, meta may benefit some people.....
also @Strider__Roshin you still milling about in cyro? I just came back from a 6 month break and havent seen many familiar faces out there lol
GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sometimes you get these sort of dungeon groups.
Just to move on, they are pretty rare after allEdited by zaria on February 24, 2020 1:55PMGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Jdray✭✭✭Random Dungeons seem to attract some of the most toxic players, I have traded quite a few insults back and forth. I only play with my guilds now.
0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »Strider__Roshin wrote: »Also I'd say the individual not running the meta is more foolish.
Unless he's going for a scoreboard, many non-meta builds can be effective. So no....
That wasn't my argument. Read my response again.
Its a game, outside of those who actually make some type of compensation for playing it, it's only value is entertainment. The most logical thing to do is whatever brings you the most joy.0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why did he even care about your not used Vigor? He wouldn't get healed by it anyway, except you would use the Echoing one, but honestly I would hate whisper you if you would do that, because that morph is garbage.PC|EU0 -
thadjarvis✭✭✭✭Were you dying? How did it even come up?
Didn't die at all in that dungeon unless the tank or healer died first. I was doing mechanics properly and doing dps. in fact it was the tank who insisted on "just burn" and seemed to think mechanics dont matter.
People who try and push meta on others should be rounded up and perma banned for the good of the community. getting sick of running into those idiot types.
Just ignore junk that. When I do pugs the complainers/whiners ten to be one of three types. I usually stick up for their target of sadism and if it continues just kick them. If they target me, I just ignore it.- Player thinks he knows theory crafting but demands dumb things
- Player's blaming others to make up for own inadequacy: a tank in a base game content yelling at a healer for (well anything), a DD bashing the healer when doing <20% DPS
- A generalized impatient jerk that doesn't fit 1 or 2
O and Vigor isn't meta anyway. Rarely but almost never use it: RoP has passive damage, is shared with allies, and provides minor protection.0 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭Don't worry about it. it'll be another "healers are redundant until I need them because I'm more important than you" kind of person.
In my experience, the vast majority of people enjoy running dungeons with two dd's, a healer and a tank. That's the best and most fun combo.1 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Were you dying? How did it even come up?
Didn't die at all in that dungeon unless the tank or healer died first. I was doing mechanics properly and doing dps. in fact it was the tank who insisted on "just burn" and seemed to think mechanics dont matter.
People who try and push meta on others should be rounded up and perma banned for the good of the community. getting sick of running into those idiot types.
Yea, agreed, it’s pretty common in MMOs and life in general.
People who’re intelligent when something goes wrong try and figure out what why. Those who’re dumb just get mad because they have no other response because they are smart enough to diagnose the issue.
Unfortunately there’s no combat log in ESO so people are in the dark. If you don’t have the tools to diagnose then you have to guess. First things people will look at?
Is tank X spec/class
Is healer X spec/class
Are dps X spec/class
You were picked because without any other information you were easiest to blame. People actually thought no combat log or dps parsers would lead to less competition or leading to a meta... whoever thought that doesn’t understand people and are idiots.
I think you meant "the are NOT smart enough..."
There is a ESO combat log if you want to run ESO Logs but it's for offline use after the fact. You can run Hodor's Reflexes but then again all would have to have it and have it on and you can run Group Damage Share but the same applies.0 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Come on Dazee! You should always slot Vigor! Even on your Magicka characters! Geez! LOL.0 -
Skullderic✭✭✭Why would someone hate tell you for not using vigor in a dungeon? Why, Why?
How many times did you die in that dungeon? >.>
Gert Soem!!1
