Why the obsession with vigor?

dazee

Some moron sent me hate tells after a dungeon becuase I wasn't using vigor on my stamplar- I have 2h frontbar with rally, I have no need for a different stam heal even if I could fit one in the build without severely comprimising my dps.

AcadianPaladin

I have four stam bow/bows (sorc, ward, templar, NB). They all have access to Vigor and exactly none of them slot it. Admittedly, they are solo dungeon runners and solo WB hunters so don't worry about more than self-healing (though the ward and templar actually can heal others some).

Maybe it's a group thing? When I group for dungeons it is on a real healer so Vigor seems kind of silly compared to what a real healer can do.

Iskiab

Were you dying? How did it even come up?

Browiseth

quite a few stam classes struggle to heal themselves without vigor. stam NB and stamplar come to mind. stam sorc has very little use for vigor in pve because crit surge is so good, and in my experience stam dk can make do with bloodthirst and blood craze, but vigor is nice if you're struggling

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

VaranisArano

As long as you were keeping up adequate self-heals and not standing in stupid, what's the problem?

I mean, there are always going to be folks who rag on players who don't play exactly the meta (meta according to them, anyway), but if it wasn't causing a problem, then that's just being silly.

If Rally wasn't sufficient, on the other hand, and you were taking more damage than what the healer should have to deal with, then yeah, I could see politely mentioning that you might want to upgrade to Vigor for better self-heals.

dazee

Iskiab wrote: »

Were you dying? How did it even come up?

Didn't die at all in that dungeon unless the tank or healer died first. I was doing mechanics properly and doing dps. in fact it was the tank who insisted on "just burn" and seemed to think mechanics dont matter.

People who try and push meta on others should be rounded up and perma banned for the good of the community. getting sick of running into those idiot types.

WhisperLFE

I hardly ever run Vigor outside of PvP on my stamblade. If I need a self-heal beyond leeching strikes and killer's blade (and assassin's scourge proc), dark cloak does a good enough job. If I need more than that, it usually means something in the group ain't right.

furiouslog

If it was a pug the healer should be healing. I think it's important to have in your toolkit as a stam toon, but there should not be an expectation that you need it in that environment. DPS should dps, with a certain level of survivability.

Shantu

Honestly, the heal is so good for stam toons it's kind of a no-brainer. But unless you're dying every few seconds and preventing a group from progressing, I can't see anyone getting bent out of shape about it.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

I find it's nice to have but it is still best when used in a PvP situation or Solo Content as you may very well have no healer available.

Dusk_Coven

Maybe they were hoping for the group heal? If you are DPS role it's not your responsibility to heal anyone though.
I don't bother with PvP so my stamina toons generally slot Draining Shot for emergencies.

robpr

Browiseth wrote: »

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

The difference between 2h/dw is minimal right now, with certain classes 2h works even stronger. Maybe not in case stamplar, but playing 2h in pve is not meme anymore.

BejaProphet

There is no real way to respond adequately to posts like this. We hear, “I was griped at for not having vigor, but didn’t need it.”

Ok...well then I guess it was wrong of them.

Unless it was the healer who knew that the reason you were fine was that the healer was having to work three times as hard to keep you fine.

Unless their complaint was really meaning you’d do more damage swapping to dual wield and vigor would free you from rally so you could swap your build.

Unless....
Unless....
Unless....

Point being, in truth very seldom do people get harassed when all is well. But on these forums all we hear is, “my play was fine, but I got kicked/griped at/harassed, please tell me why they’d do that?”

But, perhaps all was fine and it was pure unreasonableness. But either way all the forum will be able to do is make random speculation as to what happened.

jircris11

dazee wrote: »

Some moron sent me hate tells after a dungeon becuase I wasn't using vigor on my stamplar- I have 2h frontbar with rally, I have no need for a different stam heal even if I could fit one in the build without severely comprimising my dps.

Vigor is a must for certain classes, nb and stam as well as necro and dk dont REALLY need it. Warden,sorc do because of their lack of good heals. In the end screw what ppl say if you like your style then you are playing the game right.

StormeReigns

jircris11 wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Some moron sent me hate tells after a dungeon becuase I wasn't using vigor on my stamplar- I have 2h frontbar with rally, I have no need for a different stam heal even if I could fit one in the build without severely comprimising my dps.

Vigor is a must for certain classes, nb and stam as well as necro and dk dont REALLY need it. Warden,sorc do because of their lack of good heals. In the end screw what ppl say if you like your style then you are playing the game right.

First I heard that warden lacked good heals. Care to elaborate on it? Might be missing something to help benefit my group.

Nomadic_Atmoran

robpr wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

The difference between 2h/dw is minimal right now, with certain classes 2h works even stronger. Maybe not in case stamplar, but playing 2h in pve is not meme anymore.

My stamplar runs 2h/bow and hits like a truck. If people are expecting l33t trial run dps then they need to stay their behinds in their trial guilds and leave the rest of the sane playerbase alone.

Runefang

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

The difference between 2h/dw is minimal right now, with certain classes 2h works even stronger. Maybe not in case stamplar, but playing 2h in pve is not meme anymore.

My stamplar runs 2h/bow and hits like a truck. If people are expecting l33t trial run dps then they need to stay their behinds in their trial guilds and leave the rest of the sane playerbase alone.

The toxicity against the end game players is nuts in this game.

zvavi

:enters the room in a storm:

did someone say VIGOR?!?!





obsession.

Diminish

Browiseth wrote: »

quite a few stam classes struggle to heal themselves without vigor. stam NB and stamplar come to mind. stam sorc has very little use for vigor in pve because crit surge is so good, and in my experience stam dk can make do with bloodthirst and blood craze, but vigor is nice if you're struggling

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

2h on stam DDs is actually quite popular, and puts out higher damage than dual wield on most builds in PvE... Did I miss something?

Strider__Roshin

dazee wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Were you dying? How did it even come up?

People who try and push meta on others should be rounded up and perma banned for the good of the community. getting sick of running into those idiot types.

What an asinine thing to say. Also I'd say the individual not running the meta is more foolish. You can play how you want, but if you want to bring logic into this argument the personal playing with a meta build is doing it right so long as they're utilizing it effectively.

VaranisArano

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Were you dying? How did it even come up?

People who try and push meta on others should be rounded up and perma banned for the good of the community. getting sick of running into those idiot types.

What an asinine thing to say. Also I'd say the individual not running the meta is more foolish. You can play how you want, but if you want to bring logic into this argument the personal playing with a meta build is doing it right so long as they're utilizing it effectively.

There's a time and a place to get huffy over the meta.

During a dungeon run where the player is doing just fine with their non-meta build is probably not that time and place.

I once had a DD get snippy with the healer for using the Combat Physician set...in a normal dungeon where the healer was doing just fine keeping us alive. No problems with the run.

Was Combat Physician optimal?
No.
Was it more than adequate for the level of content we were doing?
Totally.

Unless someone's actually struggling or failing in their non-meta build, its usually not necessary to gripe when players don't run meta builds in group dungeons. For people who do want to run with guaranteed meta builds in dungeons, I recommend running with a premade group from zone or guilds that meet their standards.

dazee

jircris11 wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Some moron sent me hate tells after a dungeon becuase I wasn't using vigor on my stamplar- I have 2h frontbar with rally, I have no need for a different stam heal even if I could fit one in the build without severely comprimising my dps.

Vigor is a must for certain classes, nb and stam as well as necro and dk dont REALLY need it. Warden,sorc do because of their lack of good heals. In the end screw what ppl say if you like your style then you are playing the game right.

Not when you use 2h and have rally, a pretty big heal. it only affects the one who uses it, true, but my role is dps not healing.

LeHarrt91

dazee wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Some moron sent me hate tells after a dungeon becuase I wasn't using vigor on my stamplar- I have 2h frontbar with rally, I have no need for a different stam heal even if I could fit one in the build without severely comprimising my dps.

Vigor is a must for certain classes, nb and stam as well as necro and dk dont REALLY need it. Warden,sorc do because of their lack of good heals. In the end screw what ppl say if you like your style then you are playing the game right.

Not when you use 2h and have rally, a pretty big heal. it only affects the one who uses it, true, but my role is dps not healing.

But also most people who do use Vigor use Resolving Vigor which only affects the caster anyway.

idk

First off, if one is queueing solo for a dungeon one is asking for low skilled players. That seems to be the case since OP does mention they never died unless the tank or healer died first. It sounds like a pretty crappy group to begin with.

That being said, most fights are survivable without a healer and many in vet are survivable without a tank. It comes down to the player being skilled at avoiding damage. A skilled group does not need both a tank and a healer in most 4 man dungeons. I have cleared vet DLC dungeons on HM without a healer.

Sailor_Palutena

Browiseth wrote: »

quite a few stam classes struggle to heal themselves without vigor. stam NB and stamplar come to mind. stam sorc has very little use for vigor in pve because crit surge is so good, and in my experience stam dk can make do with bloodthirst and blood craze, but vigor is nice if you're struggling

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

Funny thing my Redguard Stamblade uses Two Hand and Bow. I usually rush ahead and kill most mobs before people reach me. In bosses I go Bow until 50% of boss health then finish it with two hand. I think it is a matter of choice of skills and gear quality. Two hand is overpowered in PVE. And it is still possible to heal with it.

Dual wielding increases survivability in exchange for dps. Only works if you are solo'ing imo.

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

using 2h in pve is a pretty clear giveaway you're not particularly bothered about what the "most effective thing" is in eso - fair play - but you may have been underperforming in the dungeon which sparked that other player's frustration

The difference between 2h/dw is minimal right now, with certain classes 2h works even stronger. Maybe not in case stamplar, but playing 2h in pve is not meme anymore.

My stamplar runs 2h/bow and hits like a truck. If people are expecting l33t trial run dps then they need to stay their behinds in their trial guilds and leave the rest of the sane playerbase alone.

This.

Varana

Slotting Vigor isn't even "meta". The "meta" is that you should slot it when you need it, and you can leave it out when you don't.
Players complain about all sorts of weird stuff in PUGs. Don't take it personally.

* Referring to the incident as described by the OP, i.e. without hearing the other side.

StormeReigns

Those who argue about "vigor" meta think they are looking like this...


when in reality, they actually look like this...

IndianaJames7

Vigor for days

Deter1UK

not to mention that Vigor is only available if you PVP so to assume that anyone in a pug has it when a large amount of the player base has never been there is, well, a bit daft.

Bradyfjord

As a dk tank, if I'm pugging, I like to slot echoing vigor. If things are going well then I might slot something else.

I would never tell someone what to do, but I might ask for someone to help with an add on a boss or something.

Mr_Walker

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Also I'd say the individual not running the meta is more foolish.

Unless he's going for a scoreboard, many non-meta builds can be effective. So no....