Bullying in 2020
Kimid
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How sad to see that a game that I have played since Beta is still being ruined by a number of the small elite, end game community who should be supporting other players. I go out of my way to help other healers, and run a small social guild where I try to introduce people to vet content. At the same time I have had the joy of being embraced by a few amazing end game players and guilds which has given me the opportunity to complete content that only 10 people in my 250+ people social guild have ever completed. Because of that I stream, enabling them to see what the content looks like from a friendly face.
How sad that today a dozen people from THE elite end game guild found it necessary to join my stream whilst one of their guild mates revealed personal information about me in the public chat, trashed me both personally and from a gaming perspective, and then told me to go kill myself. When I asked one of the people from that guild sitting in the stream watching it go down "why" the response was 'I can't be held responsible for what a guild mate says'. Wow. You do know that people who watch other people being bullied and don't intervene are complicit in that bullying right? You should all be ashamed at the joy you found in reducing a complete stranger to tears in her own stream simply because you are bored with your own lives after completing all content in the game.
The purpose of this post is not to name you all, though I should, but to remind people this is a game where many people come to have fun. If your idea of fun is to publicly humiliate people then perhaps you need to evaluate yourself because you obviously have no moral fibre nor any actual value to add to this game.
How sad that today a dozen people from THE elite end game guild found it necessary to join my stream whilst one of their guild mates revealed personal information about me in the public chat, trashed me both personally and from a gaming perspective, and then told me to go kill myself. When I asked one of the people from that guild sitting in the stream watching it go down "why" the response was 'I can't be held responsible for what a guild mate says'. Wow. You do know that people who watch other people being bullied and don't intervene are complicit in that bullying right? You should all be ashamed at the joy you found in reducing a complete stranger to tears in her own stream simply because you are bored with your own lives after completing all content in the game.
The purpose of this post is not to name you all, though I should, but to remind people this is a game where many people come to have fun. If your idea of fun is to publicly humiliate people then perhaps you need to evaluate yourself because you obviously have no moral fibre nor any actual value to add to this game.
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Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Buddy_Bradley wrote: »Name and shame, and report with screenshots.
It's against TOS, she'd end up getting herself in trouble over it instead of them. I'm sorry to hear that it happened though8 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Did you think bullying would just stop because it's now the 20's? Sadly bullies have always been about and will continue to be for any year.8 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no reason why anyone should do those things, or bully someone in general. I will never get people who say things like that, telling someone to go kill themselves, and then write it off an trolling. No my friend... that IS NOT trolling. It is a toxic thing to say, not even because you don't know the person you are saying it to, it just is.
This is a game and we are all here for fun. Sorry you went thru that @Kimid.9 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭I pity people who troll, who bully and grief, specially since reading a new study that has recently been published.
Scientists Scanned Brains of Bullies and Found Something Grim.
An international team of neuroscientists scanned the brains of lifelong bullies and found something grim: Bullies’ brains appear to be physically smaller than other brains.
“Our findings support the idea that, for the small proportion of individuals with life-course-persistent antisocial behaviour, there may be differences in their brain structure that make it difficult for them to develop social skills.
https://futurism.com/neoscope/scientists-scanned-bullies-brains
Point is that people who display antisocial behavior in the form of bullying, trolling, griefing etc are really mentally handicapped. You can't help but feel really bad about people who behave this way. They are broken in a way that cannot be fixed, it's really kind of a cry for help. I picture them as broken down, sitting on the ground leaning against a wall balling, crying, pleading and begging for someone to help them. But there is no help for them, they have to live their lives suffering in this way. How incredibly sad.14 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »There is no reason why anyone should do those things, or bully someone in general. I will never get people who say things like that, telling someone to go kill themselves, and then write it off an trolling. No my friend... that IS NOT trolling. It is a toxic thing to say, not even because you don't know the person you are saying it to, it just is.
This is a game and we are all here for fun. Sorry you went thru that @Kimid.
Mate, you’re saying that as though there is any merit or benefit in trolling. The whole point of trolling is to humiliate another person.
There’s no difference between trolling and bullying, just like there’s no difference between banter and abuse, they’re just terms the bullies and abusers use to try to legitimise their actions. They’re still bullies and abusers and should not be tolerated.11 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »There is no reason why anyone should do those things, or bully someone in general. I will never get people who say things like that, telling someone to go kill themselves, and then write it off an trolling. No my friend... that IS NOT trolling. It is a toxic thing to say, not even because you don't know the person you are saying it to, it just is.
This is a game and we are all here for fun. Sorry you went thru that @Kimid.
Mate, you’re saying that as though there is any merit or benefit in trolling. The whole point of trolling is to humiliate another person.
There’s no difference between trolling and bullying, just like there’s no difference between banter and abuse, they’re just terms the bullies and abusers use to try to legitimise their actions. They’re still bullies and abusers and should not be tolerated.
Well yes, they call it that to ease their conscience (most likely) Either way it is a horrible act, whatever they want to call it.2 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »There is no reason why anyone should do those things, or bully someone in general. I will never get people who say things like that, telling someone to go kill themselves, and then write it off an trolling. No my friend... that IS NOT trolling. It is a toxic thing to say, not even because you don't know the person you are saying it to, it just is.
This is a game and we are all here for fun. Sorry you went thru that @Kimid.
What these trolls don't understand is that they could be held for voluntary manslaughter for telling someone to kill themselves, if they end up doing so. That alone makes this kind of bullying absolutely stupid if they selfishly only care about themselves.
A young woman who sent text messages badgering her depressed boyfriend to kill himself was ordered to spend 15 months in prison
https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-teen-texting-suicide-20170803-story.html
I would encourage anyone who experiences bullying in any form, to take screen shots of the bullying, or trolling, or griefing or whatever it is, and report it. These types of people will not stop their unwanted and antisocial behavior unless they are punished, or banned. Report them, report them every time, report them regardless if you believe anything will be done. Do your part to ensure these people are removed from the community.7 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
In schools we have an authority figure such as a parent or teacher. That role is filled by Zenimax on ESO.
Another thing, during this entire time you did not feel it necessary to utilize the ignore/mute feature that so many services implement for situations just like this. What is the purpose of developers putting this option in if people don't utilize it?PvP needs more love.1 -
Kimid✭✭✭These people have been permabanned at least twice before for trolling. They just create new accounts and start again because their small minded friends find it entertaining.
Sexual, emotional and psychological abuse are not only tolerated but applauded in that group of players it seems. As is meming those of us who dare to try. I actually respected and looked up to some.of the players in that guild, especially the healers. Their actions today confirm I'm happier than they will ever be because I actually play with people I like. I laugh. I joke. And eventually I clear without hurting other people. I watch their streams and it's toxicity, resignation and anger.5 -
Umbro100✭✭✭I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If they are streaming on a service such as Twitch, are there any TOS policies regarding streamers who use their service for that type of behavior?I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!5 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Quote what you will, I stand by my opinion. If there was a dispute between another player and OP. And she did nothing to end the confrontation with the tools provided then there's not much to say. The tools are there.PvP needs more love.1 -
NaomiHutt✭✭✭✭I'm so sorry this happened to you, people who bully others are nothing but cowards in my honest opinion.
Statistics say that most bullies are either being bullied themselves in one way or another or they are just very unhappy within their lives.
However, how ever you break it down there is just no excuse to be cruel to another individual.
I hope you will be ok, try not to let small minded people drag you down or make you lose interest in what you love doing.
I know it's easier said than done, but I believe in you.
Big hugs from one gamer to another. xEdited by NaomiHutt on February 22, 2020 10:51AM4 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
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I vehemently disagree.I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
If you witness someone being harassed or bullied or molested, it is your civic duty to speak up and support the victim (within reason). It is the very foundation of a free and just society.
Bullying is not a "dispute". It is the intentional harassment of others who are not of equal strength in that situation.
NB: Referring to the incident as described by the OP.
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
In schools we have an authority figure such as a parent or teacher. That role is filled by Zenimax on ESO.
Another thing, during this entire time you did not feel it necessary to utilize the ignore/mute feature that so many services implement for situations just like this. What is the purpose of developers putting this option in if people don't utilize it?
Muting is a classic example of blaming the victim while pretending to address the issue. It’s like a band aid over a gunshot wound.
Sure it enables you to block abusers or bullies on a case by case basis. But it’s all a bit late because the abuse has happened and the damage has been done. Meanwhile the ‘service provider’ enables the abuser to carry on abusing others regardless while claiming they are “tough on the issue”.
In the service provider’s eyes it’s not ‘practical’ or cost effective to provide any kind of proactive system. That would require too much effort and resources to be worth their while.8 -
Kimid✭✭✭I didn't say that I didn't report them, only that it isn't a deterrent for.them I have had numerous supportive messages from people who do know them, have seen the conversation, and are not happy. The only thing that will work to deter this kind of bullying is really ensuring there are no more bystanders egging them on. Without an audience they may just move on from game.2
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I didn't say that I didn't report them, only that it isn't a deterrent for.them I have had numerous supportive messages from people who do know them, have seen the conversation, and are not happy. The only thing that will work to deter this kind of bullying is really ensuring there are no more bystanders egging them on. Without an audience they may just move on from game.
Hey Kimid
The only important thing is that you carry on playing the game the way you enjoy and don’t let these wankers get you down.
They’re the ones with issues. The game doesn’t need players like them.6 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Could you link your Twitch so we could watch the video, so we see who it is without you having to say names?Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!8 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
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I vehemently disagree.I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
If you witness someone being harassed or bullied or molested, it is your civic duty to speak up and support the victim (within reason). It is the very foundation of a free and just society.
Bullying is not a "dispute". It is the intentional harassment of others who are not of equal strength in that situation.
NB: Referring to the incident as described by the OP.
In my opinion people have no obligation to involve themself in something that can get themselves in any form of danger, whether that be physical or emotional.
What you can do is get someone with authority involved. Such a parent, teacher, police officer.
And just for the record and to establish a baseline the definition for bullying is
: abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. : the actions and behavior of a bully
I disagree this fits the scenario described in OP. From what I can tell it was her and one other person. Both have the capability to end the conversation at any moment through the use of in service mute/block features. So I do not interpret any lack of power on either side.
Now I did overlook that the personal information had been posted in a public chat (I am assuming ESOs public chat), in this case I agree with the other posted above who said to take screenshots and report the situation to Zenimax. That is definitely a bannable offense.PvP needs more love.2 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
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I vehemently disagree.I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
If you witness someone being harassed or bullied or molested, it is your civic duty to speak up and support the victim (within reason). It is the very foundation of a free and just society.
Bullying is not a "dispute". It is the intentional harassment of others who are not of equal strength in that situation.
NB: Referring to the incident as described by the OP.
In my opinion people have no obligation to involve themself in something that can get themselves in any form of danger, whether that be physical or emotional.
What you can do is get someone with authority involved. Such a parent, teacher, police officer.
And just for the record and to establish a baseline the definition for bullying is
: abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. : the actions and behavior of a bully
I disagree this fits the scenario described in OP. From what I can tell it was her and one other person. Both have the capability to end the conversation at any moment through the use of in service mute/block features. So I do not interpret any lack of power on either side.
Now I did overlook that the personal information had been posted in a public chat (I am assuming ESOs public chat), in this case I agree with the other posted above who said to take screenshots and report the situation to Zenimax. That is definitely a bannable offense.
you dont have to be "vulnerable" to be bullied and the bully is usually weaker and finds the safety of the internet as their strength, and to correct your definition ANY action towards another person ment to cause distress or upset as a deliberate act is bullying.3 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alienoutlaw wrote: »
I vehemently disagree.I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
If you witness someone being harassed or bullied or molested, it is your civic duty to speak up and support the victim (within reason). It is the very foundation of a free and just society.
Bullying is not a "dispute". It is the intentional harassment of others who are not of equal strength in that situation.
NB: Referring to the incident as described by the OP.
In my opinion people have no obligation to involve themself in something that can get themselves in any form of danger, whether that be physical or emotional.
What you can do is get someone with authority involved. Such a parent, teacher, police officer.
And just for the record and to establish a baseline the definition for bullying is
: abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. : the actions and behavior of a bully
I disagree this fits the scenario described in OP. From what I can tell it was her and one other person. Both have the capability to end the conversation at any moment through the use of in service mute/block features. So I do not interpret any lack of power on either side.
Now I did overlook that the personal information had been posted in a public chat (I am assuming ESOs public chat), in this case I agree with the other posted above who said to take screenshots and report the situation to Zenimax. That is definitely a bannable offense.
you dont have to be "vulnerable" to be bullied and the bully is usually weaker and finds the safety of the internet as their strength, and to correct your definition ANY action towards another person ment to cause distress or upset as a deliberate act is bullying.
The fact that people are so insistent on labelling any heated disagreement/argument between people "bullying" does no favors to true victims of legitimate bullying.3 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alienoutlaw wrote: »
I vehemently disagree.I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
If you witness someone being harassed or bullied or molested, it is your civic duty to speak up and support the victim (within reason). It is the very foundation of a free and just society.
Bullying is not a "dispute". It is the intentional harassment of others who are not of equal strength in that situation.
NB: Referring to the incident as described by the OP.
In my opinion people have no obligation to involve themself in something that can get themselves in any form of danger, whether that be physical or emotional.
What you can do is get someone with authority involved. Such a parent, teacher, police officer.
And just for the record and to establish a baseline the definition for bullying is
: abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. : the actions and behavior of a bully
I disagree this fits the scenario described in OP. From what I can tell it was her and one other person. Both have the capability to end the conversation at any moment through the use of in service mute/block features. So I do not interpret any lack of power on either side.
Now I did overlook that the personal information had been posted in a public chat (I am assuming ESOs public chat), in this case I agree with the other posted above who said to take screenshots and report the situation to Zenimax. That is definitely a bannable offense.
you dont have to be "vulnerable" to be bullied and the bully is usually weaker and finds the safety of the internet as their strength, and to correct your definition ANY action towards another person ment to cause distress or upset as a deliberate act is bullying.
I was just using Merriam-Webster as a baseline. If you would prefer a different source for the definition I would be fine to hear which you use.
Regardless, in my opinion there were actions that could have been taken to prevent this from progressing as far as it did. Now do not twist that into saying I am blaming her or justifying the other players actions because I am not. I just feel this could have ended much quicker if the tools had been utilized.
EDIT: here is the Oxford English Dictionary.
the use of strength or power to frighten or hurt weaker peopleEdited by Casul on February 22, 2020 11:58AMPvP needs more love.3 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Buddy_Bradley wrote: »Name and shame, and report with screenshots.
It's against TOS, she'd end up getting herself in trouble over it instead of them. I'm sorry to hear that it happened though
I'm all for posting the actual conversation, just don't do it here, instead do it on reddit and black out your name.
These people should be shamed for antisocial behavior. They will seek victims until such a time as they are exposed as being bulliesYou do know that his kind of behavior just encourages bullies? Some decide to bully just because dramaqueen-behavior infuriates them so much they no longer care to be polite.
Zos already is to point of fascism with their politically correct-policy enforcement.
Really, ZoS doesn't do nearly enough to prevent bullying, as a matter of fact, it is so bad a lot of people don't bother with PvP because of all the bullying, griefing, trolling. It's a huge giant problem.
There is no reason to ever be rude to anyone, ever. If everyone behaved in that way, then there would be no reason to feel like anyone had to get revenge on people whom they think are behaving like drama queens.
People are a full spectrum of every type of emotion you can imagine, and you don't know another person's experiences or how sensitive they might be. Nobody is going to be exactly like you. Some people will feel things far more than you, to call them drama queens is just being intolerant. No reason for it. There is absolutely no reason to treat people poorly, and specially no reason to bully anyone.
If there is any behavior that encourages bullies, it's when people don't report them and the get away with it. That encourages them to continue their bad behavior more than anything else.
So report them every time, copy their messages send it to ToS so that ToS can take action against them.4 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alienoutlaw wrote: »
I vehemently disagree.I agree with a portion of what you said. I disagree with the concept of someone being "complicit in the bullying" if they don't speak up. Regardless of how you look at it they are only responsible for their actions, and I would never expect someone to intervene between a dispute between two people if they are not directly involved.
If you witness someone being harassed or bullied or molested, it is your civic duty to speak up and support the victim (within reason). It is the very foundation of a free and just society.
Bullying is not a "dispute". It is the intentional harassment of others who are not of equal strength in that situation.
NB: Referring to the incident as described by the OP.
In my opinion people have no obligation to involve themself in something that can get themselves in any form of danger, whether that be physical or emotional.
What you can do is get someone with authority involved. Such a parent, teacher, police officer.
And just for the record and to establish a baseline the definition for bullying is
: abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. : the actions and behavior of a bully
I disagree this fits the scenario described in OP. From what I can tell it was her and one other person. Both have the capability to end the conversation at any moment through the use of in service mute/block features. So I do not interpret any lack of power on either side.
Now I did overlook that the personal information had been posted in a public chat (I am assuming ESOs public chat), in this case I agree with the other posted above who said to take screenshots and report the situation to Zenimax. That is definitely a bannable offense.
you dont have to be "vulnerable" to be bullied and the bully is usually weaker and finds the safety of the internet as their strength, and to correct your definition ANY action towards another person ment to cause distress or upset as a deliberate act is bullying.
I was just using Merriam-Webster as a baseline. If you would prefer a different source for the definition I would be fine to hear which you use.
Regardless, in my opinion there were actions that could have been taken to prevent this from progressing as far as it did. Now do not twist that into saying I am blaming her or justifying the other players actions because I am not. I just feel this could have ended much quicker if the tools had been utilized.
EDIT: here is the Oxford English Dictionary.
the use of strength or power to frighten or hurt weaker people
i need no dictionary definition to know how to treat a fellow human nor do i need one to know when someone is being treated badly
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Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The players who did that are just pathetic w@nkers with no life. Sad sad little people who need to compensate for their many inadequacies by behaving like this.
And the guild mates that were complicit? Cowards. Actually makes me more angry that they denied any responsibility.
I will call people out if they cross the line. Don’t have to be aggressive or dominating - works far better if use quiet humour. Have done it myself & will continue to do so as its part of being a decent member of the human race. Yes it can be scary, but ‘authority’ figures not always around or dependable. Sometimes you have to stand up and speak out, or lose your voice.
/rant over
But to the OP - hope you have better times in the future. 🙂
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This discussion has been closed.