SUPER Excited for Greymoor, BUT Wood Elf decreased detection radius passive, when???

Ratzkifal · February 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

[...]

Jaraal wrote: »

It's also interesting to note that community managers said they would explain to us how Sai Sahan (and soon Lyris Titanborn) came back from the dead to lead their respective chapters.... but no explanation ever came. There was an attempt to explain the sudden appearance of dragons in the Age Of Man, but it seems to raise more questions than it actually answered. But with the latest Legion Zero / Yokudan / Transformers / alliance fiasco, it's hard to take any of the new lore seriously at this point.

Sai Sahan's survival is admittedly vague, but that's not really uncommon for TES, is it? Although I don't know yet about Lyris.
Which questions about dragons in the 2nd era do you consider unexplained? Some like Nahfahlaar were always around, the main antagonists of Elsweyr were released from the Halls of Colossus.
And reusing assets, *** as it is, is really not enough to throw out all lore from here on out. We've had way, way worse. Were you around for the transcription error thing? Or the whole of screwed up Summerset?

It could also be that they are waiting until the prophet is back to explain how all of them came back, but it's the same for each of them, all that changes is who was saved from being dead. But that's the question for another thread.

Kesstryl · February 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Leamon Tuttle is his name, and as far as I can tell he's a damn fine fit for the job. Besides, these race changes were still done with Schick at the lore-helm. Apparently there's just no interest at the manager/producer level to revise these changes, all our input be damned.

Actually, Schick made his departure known publicly in the same month that Update 21 (racial rebalance) dropped. I highly doubt that he would set these curious changes in motion and then quit right as they were being finalized. It's more likely that he disapproved of these changes, and desired to get his name as far away from them as possible. Of course, the official statements say nothing about it, so we can only speculate. But I think the timing of these events says a lot.

It's also interesting to note that community managers said they would explain to us how Sai Sahan (and soon Lyris Titanborn) came back from the dead to lead their respective chapters.... but no explanation ever came. There was an attempt to explain the sudden appearance of dragons in the Age Of Man, but it seems to raise more questions than it actually answered. But with the latest Legion Zero / Yokudan / Transformers / alliance fiasco, it's hard to take any of the new lore seriously at this point.

Hmm well it kinda makes sense how they were able to come back to Life. There is two theories for this you can pick which one is more believable to you.
In the Dragonborn of Tes 5 if you got killed while in a Blackbook you just got sent back to Solstheim. Maybe being killed in Oblivion and if that person still has ties to Mundus get sent back instead that is one theory. Another is the way time works in Oblivion when that very important choice happened where you had to pick to sacrifice one of them. The way it might have worked could be that every one of them got used for the Ritual where all three died in different versions of the same event and all three didn't die in different versions of the same event given the nature of time in Oblivion. This also caused all three of them to not be sacrificed since all the different outcomes and choice all came true so all three maybe made it out.

The Second Theory to me at least makes the sense to me because lore wise time doesn't work the same way in Oblivion. Thus can lead to outcomes where all three got sacrificed and all three didn't get sacrificed. Yeah Time is Wacky in Oblivion that is Tes lore for you. But it is interesting and unique for sure.

As for the Bosmer Stealth detection passive it should be more of a khajiit passive because they have after all a very good cat like nose that could allow that to happen. So I do think some of the Bosmer and Khajiit Passives should be flipped.

One day maybe if the feed back keeps coming back to please give Bosmer their stealth back they can add it back in but hopefully flip the two races passives.

You are describing a Dragon Break with your second theory

Brandathorbel · February 2020

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change. When this happened, the thread on it was the biggest thread this forum has ever seen and the developers showed their complete disrespect for the customers by not even bothering to comment once in it.

that shows me they are hiding from that decision and refuse to admit they were wrong even though they know they are.

max_only · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change. When this happened, the thread on it was the biggest thread this forum has ever seen and the developers showed their complete disrespect for the customers by not even bothering to comment once in it.

that shows me they are hiding from that decision and refuse to admit they were wrong even though they know they are.

Boom.

Jaraal · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change.

That's guaranteed, if we shut up and "forget" about it. If we keep talking about it, however, they may get tired of listening to reason repeatedly, and make some changes.

Nobody wants major changes to Hunter's Eye. All we want is 3m stealth radius reduction added to it, like we had before. We don't need the 10% damage from stealth bonus we used to have. And, while stealth detection is buggy and actually counterproductive, we're not asking for that to be removed, either. Absolutely no one has praised the introduction of it or described ANY benefits from it since it was added to Bosmer passives.... but we'd be ok with leaving it in there for the devs to save face. Just add the stealth reduction to the roll dodging speed / pen bonus already in place, and call it good. Khajiit will still be ahead of us with the actually useful crit damage and healing bonus, but we're ok with that.

C'mon devs, you know you wanna do it. Time to make everything right with the universe again! (and Y'ffre will bless you with riches and prosperity once more!)

BlueRaven · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change.

“ Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”

-Dylan Thomas

Starlight_Knight · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change. When this happened, the thread on it was the biggest thread this forum has ever seen and the developers showed their complete disrespect for the customers by not even bothering to comment once in it.

that shows me they are hiding from that decision and refuse to admit they were wrong even though they know they are.

And then they shut it down when it was on page 99 just to stop it hitting 100 lol..

Cundu_Ertur · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change. When this happened, the thread on it was the biggest thread this forum has ever seen and the developers showed their complete disrespect for the customers by not even bothering to comment once in it.

that shows me they are hiding from that decision and refuse to admit they were wrong even though they know they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ozdiGys5g

anadandy · February 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change.

“ Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”

-Dylan Thomas

Bosmer Nation will never stand down.

Juhasow · February 2020

I would rather see some tweak to redguard. Currently that race sucks possibly the most out of all races.

Tigerseye · February 2020

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Very few things related to ESO has made me angry but this is one of them. A completely useless removal that goes against years of lore, the complete disregard from ZoS with barely any responses regarding the anger of it, and their blatant insulting "reasoning" for removing the stealth (A_Silverius linked it earlier) is disgusting.

It didn't even stop with the Bosmer, no they had to do it with the Argonians too. Their widely known immunity/high resistance to poison gone in a flash, and where did it go? To the Bosmer.

It would be more lore friendly if Khajiit and Bosmer made a switch with their racials. Khajiit has been known for their agility and ability to see in the dark. That sounds like detection and rolling to me! But they both could have stealth bonus, I don't even understand why both can't. It's not like Orcs are alone with having racials that supports their fighting, nor are Altmer alone with having bonuses to using magic.
Even switching the resistances between Bosmer and Argonians is more lore friendly. Disease for Bosmer and poison for Argonians. Though I think argonians should have both.

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

I fight strongly for both! ✊

I don't particularly want my roll dodge speed boost taken away, to be honest.

I love rolling and according to the lore posted by Blue Raven, Bosmer are supposed to be agile and quick.

Vanos444 · February 2020

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

It’s been more than a year since this change to the Wood Elf racial passive with the Murkmire Patch (if I remember correctly) and I have felt it’s impact ever since that change with my constant failed attempts at lockpicking the Bank of Mournhold Strongbox and Pickpocketing undetected.🙃 I just want to be that Lore-friendly Sneaky Wood Elf thief that I had initially created and mained for years that could stay hidden and do their Illegal endeavors (like lockpicking the Mournhold Bank Strongbox) without constant detection from everyone around them. Since the passive change, I have never made use of that increased radius of detecting stealthed enemies, tbh.
Please Zos, let the Graymoor chapter return to the trend of past TES wood elf racial passives, and let me be that thieving Wood Elf that all the other races warn about when it comes to their coin pouch.

I think, the vampire passive would fix that issue..
Who knows, we might get a stamina version of vampire abilities like posion slash or something like that....

NotaDaedraWorshipper · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Very few things related to ESO has made me angry but this is one of them. A completely useless removal that goes against years of lore, the complete disregard from ZoS with barely any responses regarding the anger of it, and their blatant insulting "reasoning" for removing the stealth (A_Silverius linked it earlier) is disgusting.

It didn't even stop with the Bosmer, no they had to do it with the Argonians too. Their widely known immunity/high resistance to poison gone in a flash, and where did it go? To the Bosmer.

It would be more lore friendly if Khajiit and Bosmer made a switch with their racials. Khajiit has been known for their agility and ability to see in the dark. That sounds like detection and rolling to me! But they both could have stealth bonus, I don't even understand why both can't. It's not like Orcs are alone with having racials that supports their fighting, nor are Altmer alone with having bonuses to using magic.
Even switching the resistances between Bosmer and Argonians is more lore friendly. Disease for Bosmer and poison for Argonians. Though I think argonians should have both.

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

I fight strongly for both! ✊

I don't particularly want my roll dodge speed boost taken away, to be honest.

I love rolling and according to the lore posted by Blue Raven, Bosmer are supposed to be agile and quick.

They are. The whole thing people have been going on about is that both Khajiit and Bosmer are agile and stealthy and both could have those kind of bonuses. I have no problem if the dodge stays or goes, I just want our damn stealth back.

BlueRaven · February 2020

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Very few things related to ESO has made me angry but this is one of them. A completely useless removal that goes against years of lore, the complete disregard from ZoS with barely any responses regarding the anger of it, and their blatant insulting "reasoning" for removing the stealth (A_Silverius linked it earlier) is disgusting.

It didn't even stop with the Bosmer, no they had to do it with the Argonians too. Their widely known immunity/high resistance to poison gone in a flash, and where did it go? To the Bosmer.

It would be more lore friendly if Khajiit and Bosmer made a switch with their racials. Khajiit has been known for their agility and ability to see in the dark. That sounds like detection and rolling to me! But they both could have stealth bonus, I don't even understand why both can't. It's not like Orcs are alone with having racials that supports their fighting, nor are Altmer alone with having bonuses to using magic.
Even switching the resistances between Bosmer and Argonians is more lore friendly. Disease for Bosmer and poison for Argonians. Though I think argonians should have both.

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

I fight strongly for both! ✊

I don't particularly want my roll dodge speed boost taken away, to be honest.

I love rolling and according to the lore posted by Blue Raven, Bosmer are supposed to be agile and quick.

They are. The whole thing people have been going on about is that both Khajiit and Bosmer are agile and stealthy and both could have those kind of bonuses. I have no problem if the dodge stays or goes, I just want our damn stealth back.

Agreed. Even though I think the whole tumble thing is just a clunky mechanic, I really just want the improved stealth back.

Browiseth · February 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

unfortunately when we argonian mains speak up the usual response is something along the lines of "boots lol"

BlueRaven · February 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

Browiseth wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

unfortunately when we argonian mains speak up the usual response is something along the lines of "boots lol"

I think the main problem is that in the base TES games Argonians were a bit of a jack of all trades. In Skyrim they had passives that helped in spell casting, but also sneak and lockpicking (a nod to their assassination customs), so they lacked an identifiable role identity.

(As an aside, I mention that like it’s a bad thing. But I love that argonians can be molded to what the player wants to do. They had a diverse toolset which I wish was considered in ESO.)

The point is though that this lack of clear identity works against them here in ESO.

Wood elves though had a strong class identity as stealthy archers and thieves, which gives them a bit of a following for people who like that class identity. (It also helps that many people view them as cute.) And any disruption to that identity is going to cause issues with the community.

Browiseth · February 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

Browiseth wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

unfortunately when we argonian mains speak up the usual response is something along the lines of "boots lol"

I think the main problem is that in the base TES games Argonians were a bit of a jack of all trades. In Skyrim they had passives that helped in spell casting, but also sneak and lockpicking (a nod to their assassination customs), so they lacked an identifiable role identity.

(As an aside, I mention that like it’s a bad thing. But I love that argonians can be molded to what the player wants to do. They had a diverse toolset which I wish was considered in ESO.)

The point is though that this lack of clear identity works against them here in ESO.

Wood elves though had a strong class identity as stealthy archers and thieves, which gives them a bit of a following for people who like that class identity. (It also helps that many people view them as cute.) And any disruption to that identity is going to cause issues with the community.

this is now a buff argonians thread

Nerouyn · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

not sure why we still on about this, nothing will change. When this happened, the thread on it was the biggest thread this forum has ever seen and the developers showed their complete disrespect for the customers by not even bothering to comment once in it.

that shows me they are hiding from that decision and refuse to admit they were wrong even though they know they are.

There is another possibility. They might have realised that racial passives are a problem and are moving towards getting rid of them.

Look at classes.

When the game launched every class was niched into a particular role. Over time they've gradually rolled out healing and tanking abilities to everyone. Nightblade being the only class with an invis is the last holdout.

When they nerfed Bosmer stealth, they simultaneously introduced a new armor set - Darloc Brae - which left Bosmer in exactly the same place in terms of stealthiness. And buffed everyone else too.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vesture_of_Darloc_Brae

It's just that Bosmer are no longer as stealthy as Khajiit or more stealthy than other races.

Just a theory - but the antiquities system might in some way replace or change the way racial passives work. I am watching that space.

And we've had a year of Indrik mounts - which many would agree suit altmer and bosmer characters. Possibly to take the sting out both ending up with awful racial passives.

Faulgor · February 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

Browiseth wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'm impressed you people still continue to bring that up. I wish Argonians had such vocal advocates.

Keep fighting, little guys!

unfortunately when we argonian mains speak up the usual response is something along the lines of "boots lol"

I think the main problem is that in the base TES games Argonians were a bit of a jack of all trades. In Skyrim they had passives that helped in spell casting, but also sneak and lockpicking (a nod to their assassination customs), so they lacked an identifiable role identity.

This has quite consistently been their focus, though. Non-combat magic (i.e. no Destruction or Conjuration) and stealth. Is that really less of an identity than say Dunmer's focus on Destruction and weapon skills?
They used to be described as skirmishers, the "foremost experts in guerilla warfare". Only in ESO they are tanks and healers.

Ratzkifal · February 2020

Nerouyn wrote: »

[...]

When they nerfed Bosmer stealth, they simultaneously introduced a new armor set - Darloc Brae - which left Bosmer in exactly the same place in terms of stealthiness. And buffed everyone else too.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vesture_of_Darloc_Brae

It's just that Bosmer are no longer as stealthy as Khajiit or more stealthy than other races.

[...]

And that is where you, and many others, are wrong. Bosmer are not left in "exactly the same place" in terms of stealthiness. What they had before they now need to compensate with a set, meaning they lost the space to wear another set, say for removing sneak speed penalty.
It would be the same if before they were forced to wear a detection set, but that's not the case and nobody would have wanted to wear one anyway because detection is a useless stat that only hogs up potential power without giving you any benefit.
3m of detection is still a full set bonus according to ZOS' item set balance calculation. It might as well say "here be useful stat", because it adds nothing.

And that is completely overlooking the fact that racial passives are a narrative opportunity, which is being wasted if they don't reflect the lore.
Bosmer are not stealthy because they all have the same tailor/artifact, they are stealthy because that's in their blood.

barney2525 · February 2020

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

why dont you nightblades just cloak more

whoa !

That makes way too much sense

Dracane · February 2020

Yes... so nice. Vampirelord gives everyone access to a blink ability so that Sorcerer finally has no identity and nothing unique left.

Jaraal · February 2020

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

why dont you nightblades just cloak more

My Bosmer nightblade became useless as a professional thief once they revoked his stealthy identity. So he respecced his cloak into a heal, put on some heavy armor, and wastes the enemies' time trying to kill him.

Nobody complained about him when he was minding his own business stealing, but now there are daily threads complaining about "tank meta", "unkillable tanks", "troll tanks", etc.

ZOS made me what I am today.... you can thank them for it!

Ratzkifal · February 2020

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

why dont you nightblades just cloak more

I have a Khajiit NB. I made my Bosmer a Warden because animal companions are a very Bosmer thing and I was under the impression I would still be stealthy forever as a Bosmer, because lore sets expecations etc. Anyway, From Morrowind to Murkmire I had a lot of fun being a sneaky pickpocketing Bosmer and ever since Wrathstone I stopped being happy with my character.

anadandy · February 2020

Ratzkifal wrote: »

And that is where you, and many others, are wrong. Bosmer are not left in "exactly the same place" in terms of stealthiness. What they had before they now need to compensate with a set, meaning they lost the space to wear another set, say for removing sneak speed penalty.

This exactly - emphasis mine. The "just wear a stealth set" argument irks me to no end - because in order to have what my Bosmer had for five years prior, I now have to give up a damage set, or a resource set, or something else. And again - be exactly the same as every other race who wears that set - except Imperials and Khajiit who will actually be stealthier...

NotaDaedraWorshipper · February 2020

This is bugging me

xXMeowMeowXx · February 2020

I luv my little cannibals for PvP and was happy with the changed for that

There are sets that can give you what you seek and passives in PvE.
For this, stop looking at other races and work with what you have or re-roll the race.

Racial balancing, lol. In the end they just shifted bis and made others meh. People don’t like change but it was changed and it seems to be settled by ZOS’ response....

I feel you on this and wish there was less drastic changes all the time. Though it has become ZOS’ new mantra.

Who knows they may revert bosmer but they will get a flood of players riled up for other races too.

Ratzkifal · February 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

I luv my little cannibals for PvP and was happy with the changed for that

There are sets that can give you what you seek and passives in PvE.
For this, stop looking at other races and work with what you have or re-roll the race.

Racial balancing, lol. In the end they just shifted bis and made others meh. People don’t like change but it was changed and it seems to be settled by ZOS’ response....

I feel you on this and wish there was less drastic changes all the time. Though it has become ZOS’ new mantra.

Who knows they may revert bosmer but they will get a flood of players riled up for other races too.

@xXMeowMeowXx What you and your little cannibals in PvP are happy with is the stamina regen and the penetration and movementspeed after dodgeroll. The difference between regular detection and +3m detection is so miniscule that it makes absolutely no difference.
What we seek is lore consistency. Item sets don't give that. Bosmer are stealthy by nature, not by tailor/artifact/equipment.
Just wearing the new sets does not sufficiently make up for what we lost that update because Darloc Brae requires us to wear 4 pieces, which before Wrathstone could have been another set. Possibly an offensive one.
We are not looking at "other races", we are looking at what we have and we see that we don't have what ZOS promised to give us. Hunter's Eye does nothing in PvE. There are no enemies to detect and dodgerolling to get penetration results in

A - Overpenetration, meaning damage loss
B - Low uptime of maximum penetration, meaning damage loss
C - Full uptime of maximum penetration but loss of sustain, meaning damage loss

There is nothing to take advantage of here other than maybe the movementspeed.

Our proposal was to make the penetration a permanent effect so that PvE has something, keep the movespeed after dodgeroll the same and replace useless detection with actually useful stealth for flavor, PvE and PvP as well as satisfying the lore.
As you can see, everything you like about the new Bosmer is the same, but now it makes us happy as well and is actually good in terms of highend content too.

ZOS' response settled nothing. They didn't even address the issue at hand. We will keep bringing this up whenever they pat themselves on the back and lie to us that they "care about lore".

Katahdin · February 2020

I have no problem with Bosmer getting the stealth bonus back except for the people here advocating that the passives be switched with khajiit.

So you would hand a useless passive to another race and gut that race instead?

Just no.

Advocate for getting stealth back for bosmer but don't gut another race in the process.

Ratzkifal · February 2020

Katahdin wrote: »

I have no problem with Bosmer getting the stealth bonus back except for the people here advocating that the passives be switched with khajiit.

So you would hand a useless passive to another race and gut that race instead?

Just no.

Advocate for getting stealth back for bosmer but don't gut another race in the process.

I don't think there are people here advocating for that. I think you are talking about the other thread and even there it's only one person, who probably (hopefully) realizes the error of their ways now.