MincVinyl wrote: »

ElvenVeil wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I was sick of everyone using heroic slash and steel tornado too. The problem with buffing certain weapons is that it may bring us back to the old heroic/steel tornado meta. If heroic slash damage remained the same, then there is simply no reason to use the current dizzying swing over it, due to faster light attack bash weave, minor heroism and maim, as well as the ability to block more incoming damage. Steel tornado would also be chosen more if its damage and execute remained untouched, due to the undodgeable AoE mechanic. Spin2win and heroic slash were meta for a reason.

I don't want to see 1 weapon skill line being used by everyone, but in any PvP game people will always chase the meta, so I think it's very hard to make balance changes.

both spin2win and and s/b gameplay were very distinct from each other. Some people even ran dizzy back then, as you can see in the thread. So there we already already had 3 different and viable playstyle, where the effictiveness of it came down to situations and opponents facing. Steel tornado was always an ineffective 1v1 tool, even when it was best, and if dizzy was at very least kept as fine as it is on live right now, some people would also go for that.
dizzy could use a bit more damage and these pts changes reverted, but a fast dizzy with a cc attached offers lots of reasons to pick it, even in the situations where the old spamables were restored - with dizzy you would save a bar slot because you don't need cc, it is muuch cheaper to run dizzy than s/b.

So I think as long as other options hold some sort of uniqueness that makes them the most viable tool in some situations, you would not see the entire server population using just 1 style like they do now.

It was sad to see them blanket nerf the whole sword and shield damage lineup that most people use, probably wont return until they add in the relic sets that were mentioned or if abilities are just straight buffed. As for dual wield, if zos was smart, instead of trying to make dizzy closer to jabs as a spammable, they would have made flurry respectable as a morph. Currently it is the closest thing to jabs, but it has been forgotten for a while now. To me it seems kinda silly to kill off the dizzy playstyle to try to have two weapon abilities that they want to be like jabs.

It doesnt have to be black and white as ZOS agenda maintain very well,
This game seems like it has alot of options, but only few are actually viable.

I legit believe that if you keep Dizzy at the current state, and revert the dmg nerf to S&B, you will still see people use both of them.
I'm willing to sacrifice some dmg in order to play how i want, but currently i get punished too much for doing, cuz the dmg of heroic is like, half of dizzy?

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

A snare on dizzy is not a buff it’s Zeni spending 5 total min this patch on balance changes because it’s plain to see they have no new or interesting ideas to bring to the table. We asked them for alternatives to 2H meta but instead they nerf off balance then give dizzy a snare none asked for.

5.3.0.
Sacred Ground: This passive no longer snares enemies in the area. Instead, it increases your Block Mitigation by an additional 10% while standing in one of the mentioned abilities.
5.3.3
Dizzying Swing (morph): Enemies hit by this ability that are immune to Off Balance are now snared by 40% for 2 seconds.

Why remove the snare from sacred ground but add a snare on dizzying? I don’t understand their logic on snare mechanics.

None of those abilities should have a snare.

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

My main is a magblade and I've played magicka dk and magicka sorc.

You argue stamina spammables are stronger across the board (assuming your talking about damage here since thats what my comment argued about). Frag procs are not spammables. The actual good magicka spammables are:

Crushing shock, sweeps, elemental weapons, strife (not really great but still does nice damage) and molten whip. So you argue stamina spammables are better (ignoring biting jabs as I do agree it's very potent). Care to mention which stamina spammables (viable ones) are in the same universe in damage as these ones? Dizzying swing? Has a cast time and is getting a huge nerf this patch (alongside being pretty meh in no-cp since no 10% damage boost from off-balance). Surprise attack? Sure it's better than the stamina weapon spammables. So what stamina spammables (outside of biting jabs) is superior to magicka ones?

Stamina has the best self healing? Excuse me? We can get big vigor ticks? RAPID REGEN HELLO? Though from what I understand, you run in a zerg so I can see why that isn't an attractive option for you. Let's see about other magicka heals. Vines? Arctic blast (yeah you can run it on stam but good luck doing that with the amount of magicka skills you already slot on stamden)? Honor the dead? Matriarch? Necro heals?

But sure, blame vigor despite having a 1s longer duration version of it on the restro line alongside having every single class heal scaling via magicka (with only a few having stam scaling). 6k honor the dead, what am I smoking? Spouting nonsense? Hahahahha

So you’re saying that dizzy swing isn’t one of the strongest spammables? Stronger than force pulse or crushing shock? Put your money where your mouth is, start using the fighter’s guild spammable since that’s what it’s been put in line with.

Your other argument is that mag has better self healing because of rapid regen, or that you have to use 2 heals to get the same effect as resolving vigor? Rapid regen isn’t a self heal first of all, and trying to use it as one does not work unless you’re dueling.

Everything you’re saying is misinformed and ridiculous. Try L2P and then you’ll have an argument.

Mister_DMC wrote: »

I'm still confused if dizzy still causes off balance on its first hit?

Off balance on the first hit,

Stun on the second,

Snare on the third.

LOL

Iskiab wrote: »

Yup, that’s one good way to discourage overly tanky builds who just wait for onslaught to be up. It’ll encourage high damage builds.

onslaught is entirely useless if you dont have good/high damage to begin with. Adding to that, no these changes does not encourage high weapon damage builds. Dizzy already scales rather poorly, nerfing it wouldn't make people suddenly go all in on damage. The only consequence that comes from this constant nerf to skills is either more snipe spam or templar jabs, or simply going for procs instead. The less viable skills are, the more interesting procs become

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

My main is a magblade and I've played magicka dk and magicka sorc.

You argue stamina spammables are stronger across the board (assuming your talking about damage here since thats what my comment argued about). Frag procs are not spammables. The actual good magicka spammables are:

Crushing shock, sweeps, elemental weapons, strife (not really great but still does nice damage) and molten whip. So you argue stamina spammables are better (ignoring biting jabs as I do agree it's very potent). Care to mention which stamina spammables (viable ones) are in the same universe in damage as these ones? Dizzying swing? Has a cast time and is getting a huge nerf this patch (alongside being pretty meh in no-cp since no 10% damage boost from off-balance). Surprise attack? Sure it's better than the stamina weapon spammables. So what stamina spammables (outside of biting jabs) is superior to magicka ones?

Stamina has the best self healing? Excuse me? We can get big vigor ticks? RAPID REGEN HELLO? Though from what I understand, you run in a zerg so I can see why that isn't an attractive option for you. Let's see about other magicka heals. Vines? Arctic blast (yeah you can run it on stam but good luck doing that with the amount of magicka skills you already slot on stamden)? Honor the dead? Matriarch? Necro heals?

But sure, blame vigor despite having a 1s longer duration version of it on the restro line alongside having every single class heal scaling via magicka (with only a few having stam scaling). 6k honor the dead, what am I smoking? Spouting non Hahahahha

ku5h wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

elemental weapons

The fact that you put ele weapon as an example of good mag spammable, while not even considering putting crusing weapon as a stam example shows how much better options stam has. Every magicka without class spammable is forced into ele weapon since there is no alternative.

It's because of how melee light attacks work. You can't press light attack and then crushing weapons. You can if you use a ranged weapon but using crushing weapons on bow doesn't work since you have really bad weapon damage on bow bar. If I could weave crushing like I can elemental weapons, it would be a decent spammable (still inferior to elemental weapons though). But because I can't, it's completely unusable.

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

My main is a magblade and I've played magicka dk and magicka sorc.

You argue stamina spammables are stronger across the board (assuming your talking about damage here since thats what my comment argued about). Frag procs are not spammables. The actual good magicka spammables are:

Crushing shock, sweeps, elemental weapons, strife (not really great but still does nice damage) and molten whip. So you argue stamina spammables are better (ignoring biting jabs as I do agree it's very potent). Care to mention which stamina spammables (viable ones) are in the same universe in damage as these ones? Dizzying swing? Has a cast time and is getting a huge nerf this patch (alongside being pretty meh in no-cp since no 10% damage boost from off-balance). Surprise attack? Sure it's better than the stamina weapon spammables. So what stamina spammables (outside of biting jabs) is superior to magicka ones?

Stamina has the best self healing? Excuse me? We can get big vigor ticks? RAPID REGEN HELLO? Though from what I understand, you run in a zerg so I can see why that isn't an attractive option for you. Let's see about other magicka heals. Vines? Arctic blast (yeah you can run it on stam but good luck doing that with the amount of magicka skills you already slot on stamden)? Honor the dead? Matriarch? Necro heals?

But sure, blame vigor despite having a 1s longer duration version of it on the restro line alongside having every single class heal scaling via magicka (with only a few having stam scaling). 6k honor the dead, what am I smoking? Spouting non Hahahahha

***5h wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

elemental weapons

The fact that you put ele weapon as an example of good mag spammable, while not even considering putting crusing weapon as a stam example shows how much better options stam has. Every magicka without class spammable is forced into ele weapon since there is no alternative.

It's because of how melee light attacks work. You can't press light attack and then crushing weapons. You can if you use a ranged weapon but using crushing weapons on bow doesn't work since you have really bad weapon damage on bow bar. If I could weave crushing like I can elemental weapons, it would be a decent spammable (still inferior to elemental weapons though). But because I can't, it's completely unusable.

What do you mean? LAs work exactly the same, so you mean you have to be in melee range?

Bows also have the same weapon/spell damage as staves.

Melee LA's do not work in the same way as ranged LA's. You can cast elemental / crushing weapons with any ranged LA after you LA and it will still land. This does not work on melee LAs. You are required to pre-emptively cast it, which as you can imagine is very problematic.

As for bow giving the same spell / wep damage as staves, that's true. However the damage passives which bow has only benefit ranged skills (with the exception of the crit passive) which is why almost no one uses bow as an offensive weapon outside of ganking and the occasional off-meta build.

Meanwhile staves have a few good offensive passives which allows them to viably use elemental weapons. If you still don't buy what I'm saying, feel free to use elemental weapons on any melee weapon (such as 1h 1s) and tell me how it goes.

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

My main is a magblade and I've played magicka dk and magicka sorc.

You argue stamina spammables are stronger across the board (assuming your talking about damage here since thats what my comment argued about). Frag procs are not spammables. The actual good magicka spammables are:

Crushing shock, sweeps, elemental weapons, strife (not really great but still does nice damage) and molten whip. So you argue stamina spammables are better (ignoring biting jabs as I do agree it's very potent). Care to mention which stamina spammables (viable ones) are in the same universe in damage as these ones? Dizzying swing? Has a cast time and is getting a huge nerf this patch (alongside being pretty meh in no-cp since no 10% damage boost from off-balance). Surprise attack? Sure it's better than the stamina weapon spammables. So what stamina spammables (outside of biting jabs) is superior to magicka ones?

Stamina has the best self healing? Excuse me? We can get big vigor ticks? RAPID REGEN HELLO? Though from what I understand, you run in a zerg so I can see why that isn't an attractive option for you. Let's see about other magicka heals. Vines? Arctic blast (yeah you can run it on stam but good luck doing that with the amount of magicka skills you already slot on stamden)? Honor the dead? Matriarch? Necro heals?

But sure, blame vigor despite having a 1s longer duration version of it on the restro line alongside having every single class heal scaling via magicka (with only a few having stam scaling). 6k honor the dead, what am I smoking? Spouting non Hahahahha

***5h wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.

Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.

I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.

List of skills you can adjust to open more options:

Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.

DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade

Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade

Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy

Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade

Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.

Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.

so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?

thanks for your logic

and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds

Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.

By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.

Huh? What are you smoking.

Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...

The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.

Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.

elemental weapons

The fact that you put ele weapon as an example of good mag spammable, while not even considering putting crusing weapon as a stam example shows how much better options stam has. Every magicka without class spammable is forced into ele weapon since there is no alternative.

It's because of how melee light attacks work. You can't press light attack and then crushing weapons. You can if you use a ranged weapon but using crushing weapons on bow doesn't work since you have really bad weapon damage on bow bar. If I could weave crushing like I can elemental weapons, it would be a decent spammable (still inferior to elemental weapons though). But because I can't, it's completely unusable.

What do you mean? LAs work exactly the same, so you mean you have to be in melee range?

Bows also have the same weapon/spell damage as staves.

Melee LA's do not work in the same way as ranged LA's. You can cast elemental / crushing weapons with any ranged LA after you LA and it will still land. This does not work on melee LAs. You are required to pre-emptively cast it, which as you can imagine is very problematic.

As for bow giving the same spell / wep damage as staves, that's true. However the damage passives which bow has only benefit ranged skills (with the exception of the crit passive) which is why almost no one uses bow as an offensive weapon outside of ganking and the occasional off-meta build.

Meanwhile staves have a few good offensive passives which allows them to viably use elemental weapons. If you still don't buy what I'm saying, feel free to use elemental weapons on any melee weapon (such as 1h 1s) and tell me how it goes.

I use elemental weapon but only as a magblade at point blank range. Ele weapon - LA - Concealed since elemental weapon back loads the damage one GCD.

I didn’t even know elemental weapon can buff LAs mid air, that would really be gimping the ability.

It buffs any ranged LA at any range including point blank.. Not really sure why, maybe there's a slight delay in damage from when you fire a ranged LA. Either way, preloading crushing weapons is not viable, especially with a melee ranged LA which is why no one uses the ability.

katorga wrote: »

Stamina has the best self healing? Excuse me? We can get big vigor ticks? RAPID REGEN HELLO?

Vigor doesn't tie me down to a weapon choice and you always get the heal. On the other hand, some of the magicka classes have good enough class heals to skip resto staff entirely, and you do see a lot of builds that back bar S&B.

Vigor and dodge roll are core of what makes stamina so dominant in pvp, in my opinion.

Stamina is tied to 2h for rally.

One Dizzy to snare them all, one dizzy to stun them. One dizzy to off balance sustain them all and one dizzy to kill them.

Coming soon™️
One Dizzy to shield my group and one dizzy to heal me. Stay tuned in U26®️

Isn't it weird that this game has dumbed down to spamming one skill instead of fluid rotations and a set of combinations? Stam toons can operate with dizzy, ultimate, and execute. While magicka has to operate with 5-6 skills to Combo their opponent. Have you seen the cost of most stamina abilities? They're nearly half the cost of what magicka skills cost in their rotation. That being said, have u seen how easier it is to use a heavy attack on a stam toon than it is on a magicka toon? It's pretty reliable and fast, while destro heavies will just take 2 times longer to land a 3-4k heavy attack. lel

Weird right? When stamina can favorably get resistances easier with sword+shield and maim, while magicka has to splurge all their resources in shields to survive. Weird when stamina can roll dodge spam and pop a rally into the full heal when magicka has to try to out-shield their way out of execute range and heavily punish their resources.

Weird when Stamina gets Major Evasion and access to passive roll dodge instead of strategic roll dodge for counterplaying their opponent.

Weird when Stamina gets access to off balance and can use it in their CP tree for a passive 10% boost, and follow up with a heavy attack stronger than some magicka ultimate.

Weird when Stamina gets better damage passives in their medium armor than magicka does in their light armor passives, weird stamina gets favorable damage sets when magicka has to stack more into magicka because *** costs so much.

Oh if I'm very wrong, if you go to any pvp tournament or Stormhaven in general you may get caught in a cage match of dizzy spamming stalemate. Weird that if they can't do any damage they can use onslaught for full penetration when they don't know how to combo beyond dizzy swing.

Magicka is a dying breed, our only advantage has been kiting and keeping distance. Now with Dizzy swing snaring 40% (just as aids as the eclipse snare on magplar recently) we'll find ourselves unable to kite and fall to the Dizzy meta.

In terms of power fantasy, how the hell does a 2 handed greatsword get so overloaded and be considered "sticky" as glue on a metallic weapon. The special word isn't fair balance or class identity, ZOS knows the word as an attempt to sound smarter.

P O W E R F A N T A S Y ™️

Looks like most of what you listed has been nerfed in the past due to PVPers complaining about those very same skills. Interesting how the dog chases the tail.

All of the other weapon skills,, including staves, are defective in one way or another. 2H is the only reasonably complete weapon skill, and the only skill it has that approaches a single target spammable is uppercut and its morphs.

That is why there is a "dizzy" meta. It is not because the skill is OP. It is not.